Since I'm splashing green, I decided to have Primal Command take my final spot. I imagine most of the time I'll use it to gain 7 life and put a Demigod of Revenge into my hand, but occasionally I may use the other abilities. Having some graveyard hate MB is good for a deck that fills my opponent's graveyard, and putting a planeswalker, enchantment, land, or artifact on top of my opponent's library seems very good against certain decks.
Your deck folds to RWU control. You have no way what so ever to deal with Celestial Colonnade. Admittedly Demigod of Revenge is pretty resilient, but path's and gy hate combined will shut down the resilience. even with 4 abrupt decays you can't always be sure to have one when you need it.
Another strength to running mono black is the sublte boost vs aggro you get buy not having a mana base that hurts you. Also it's nice to run Tendrils of Corruption. Turn 4 that on some guy and it's going to die and pull you well out of the red zone. Turn 6+ and it can almost win you the game.
A mono black deck i'm throwing together (haven't had a chance to really test it yet)
This is a rough draft but it's pretty straight forward. disrupt early, land a Liliana and +1 her to victory.
It's creatureless, which makes smallpox easier to cast, it's curve is fairly low while the land cound is still high, meaning I can smallpox for the most part without worry. Heavy disruption and eventually removal to protect liliana. A theoretical game could go:
T1 -> Land -> Inquisition (ignoring removal and turn 1 creature drops)
T2 -> Land -> Smallpox
T3 -> Land -> Wrench Mind or Sign in Blood
T4 -> Land -> Removal, Sign in Blood, Wrench Mind
T5 -> Land -> Liliana of the Dark Realm +1
T6 -> Land -> Tendrils of Corruption Liliana +1
T7 -> Land -> Liliana +1 Smallpox or whatever
T8 -> Land -> Liliana -6 Beseech the Queen -> Consume Spirit for 18 or something.
It definitely needs some refining but the plan is straight forward. Swamps matter, solid disruption and removal. Beseech the Queen also helps make sideboard plans better, as singletons have a higher chance of being found in the main deck post board.
Fake Dutch, I don't think that your 2nd list has enough zombies for Gravecrawler, so I'd recommend Bloodghast instead. I'd even recommend Bloodghast for the first list, as he has great synergy with Lily, Damnation, and Smallpox. Also, both of your lists have thoughtseize, Bob, and Dismember. That's a lot of life you're costing yourself while having no lifegain. I'm going to try Sorin's Thirst for my deck. It seems like the perfect turn 2 play against aggro. Speaking of turn 2 plays, if you end up putting Arena in your deck over Bob, I'd recommend cutting smallpox. If you're running arena and Lily, you want to play those cards on turn 3, which means a lot of times playing smallpox on turn 2 hurts you more than your opponent. If you do end up running smallpox, I'd recommend either running Crucible of the worlds or lowering your mana curve. It seems like Deathrite Shaman would be a perfect card for your deck because with him you can play Lily on turn 2, and you can use the destroyed lands from smallpox for man.
Here's the decklist that I finally settled on. I realized that the key to my deck is to have both Lily and Arena on the board to create a lot of card advantage while pitching Bloodghast and Demigod of Revenge to my graveyard, so I settled on Sorin's Thirst as a solid turn 2 play to help me against aggro.
In the first round I lost to a tokens deck. Lingering Souls is really good against my deck and I think that I need Illness in the ranks for my sideboard. In all the other rounds I faced control decks, where discard was very valuable. Having both Liliana of the Veil and Phyrexian Arena on the board is awesome. I think that those are the two best cards in my deck, so I think that I'm going to cut smallpox, because I don't want to be destroying my own land on turn 2.
I know that this subject is MBC, but I like Abrupt Decay so much for my deck. It takes care of problem cards like Rest in Peace, Oblivion Ring, Pithing Needle, Nevermore, Ensnaring Bridge, as well as the vast majority of cards in standard, all at non-counterable instant speed.
However, I do lose some life with the Overgrown Tombs along and Verdant Catacombs, along with Thoughtseize and Phyrexian Arena, so I'm thinking that I need to add some life gain to the deck to replace smallpox. I'm considering the following cards:
The problem with sword of light and shadow is that I don't have many creatures to bring back from my graveyard. The only targets I have are Bob and the Aristocrat.
I like Stony Silence, Thoightseize, Surgical Extraction, Slaughter Games, Pithing Needle, and disenchant as SB cards.
I'm not a fan of you running green, when it's soul purpose is mana ramp. I'm thinking that replacing green with Snapcaster Mage and Vendillion Clique would make the deck better. People splash green in modern so they can play Tarmogoyf.
It seems like your deck is slow to produce a combo that involves you producing tokens and drawing cards. It looks like your deck matches up well against midrange decks, but burn and aggro decks would be too fast, and control would out-control you. It seems like board wipes would be a big problem once you get your army out.
And even though I said that your deck matches up well against midrange, honestly I think that it wouldn't do too well against the best midrange deck in modern now, Jund.
Hi Poopingmypants, firstly let me tell you how appreciated your help is, really wish to have this "project" going and ive enjoying all your comments and such since i registered (well not long ago but it has meaning!!)
Regarding the ramp ideas, yes i agree that Rampart Growth is a bit "crude" yet from the ruling changes there's been since i started playing again (last year) i noticed that damage no longer goes to the stack and i have been a great fan of Sakura Tribe Elder, having it on my Astral Slide, well what i mean is, it seems a bit weaker after this change, ofc its still a blocker, i wont have board wipers all the time when i need them. Correct if Im wrong, i know its a card meant to end up on the graveyard, but if in some situations i cant take another (opponent) creature with it well it loses value in my book, ofc i can be wrong.
i like Treasured Find its fast and i prefer it over Eternal Witness only due to that. Please if there's some point Im not seeing in your suggestion tell me, kinda rusty here
Primeval Titan seems really really good man totally forgot about it, could be considered as another win condition right? i don't wish to rely only on Vraska the Unseen, i don't know about the number of Titans i should but maybe we should speak of that latter?
About Abrupt Decay, should i run 3/4? this is the thing i suck the most in Mtg (right after building decks) is the amount of any card in a deck.
Profane Command sounds very nice yet again im not sure about how many.
Lastly, what i want the deck to be, that question as to be answered.
Control deck, with some creatures (not 2many) on the side, in case the Plainswalker doesn't cut it, some way to deal with permanents (enchantments scare me >.<) as well as other control decks, i know its kinda vague, but overall, a deck that as answers to many threats, not very fast at winning but at securing it at its own speed.
I'm also not sure if I like Tidehollow Sculler or not either. Some games I love that he's able to get 2 damage while holding on to something detrimental to the opponent's game plan. I also like being able to look at their hand if I don't have an IoK or Duress in hand. Other games I find myself getting him out on T2, following a Lavamancer, but when I see the hand, it has 2 bolts and a helix (UWR control). At that point, I wasn't even sure if he was worth it. I grab something, they kill it, and they get that something back almost immediately.
Also, Imposing Sovereign is pretty bad for this deck. I don't know what I was thinking. I took them out so now I have some room. Maybe some more Terminates would be good.
I'm also now testing Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. What do you guys think of him? He should be good considering the full playset of Lingering Souls? Also, it seems that now everyone is using Falkenrath Aristocrat. Please let me know how it goes! For me, it's either her or Olivia at this point.
I would run 4 Path to Exile before I would add in a Terminate. Path to Exile is so much better against Wurmcoil Engine, creatures with undying, creatures with persist, creatures that can come back from the graveyard, indestructable creatures, ect, plus it costs 1 less mana.
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is a very good card, but does he fit the strategy of your deck? He's great for a control deck, but as you described your deck as a beatdown/burn deck, I think that you'd like Falkenrath Aristocrat better as a beatdown card. On the other hand, you said your deck was control a lot, so maybe you could have Sorin in the SB against matches where you want to play midrange/control? Or you could have Falkenrath as a SB card and put her in when you want to beatdown and your opponent isn't running path.
EDIT: What do you guys think about Worldslayer with Falkenrath? It's a great combo, but might be too much of a "win-more" card. It does have synergy with Bloodghast and Lingering Souls, but if I'm connecting with a Falkenrath that has a Sword of Fire and Ice attached to it, I should win the game anyway, and I'd probably replace Sword of Fire and Ice with Worldslayer.
@NZB2323
I was wondering about Bloodghast and using him as a finisher. How does he work for you? Running equipments seems fun, but do you ever feel strained for cards while running Liliana of the veil but no Dark Confidants?
Going back to builds that run Grim Lavamancer, it also dawned on me that he is a Human, which means he has a nice interaction with Falkenrath Aristocrat. I may need to run more than 1 Aristocrat in my build now that Im making room for Lavamancers.
I run 4 Dark Confidant. This deck needs some card advantage.
I had a chance to test a little bit this evening. Liliana definitely looks promising, especially combined with Grim Lavamancer. After testing the Lavamancer, I believe this deck needs at least 3 of him in the main.
I cut my Kitchen Finks for the Lili's, because Bob doesn't agree with too many three drops. And including WW and BB in my three drop's casting costs isn't that smart. I think I'll miss them in the aggro matchups, but we'll see.
Since my deck is going more towards a black build (T1 black discard, double black Liliana) I also decided to test without my Figure of Destiny's for a while. But removing them left me with a mainboard of 58 cards, thus my search for the extra 2 began.
I think a finisher is the better option, I noticed my games were super grindy today, and Bob kept chipping away at my life total. The 'clams have been moved to the sideboard however, and will be sided in in favor of the Tidehollow Scullers to avoid refilling my opponent's hand.
It's hard to comment without seeing your decklist, but I'm a big fan of Falkenrath Aristocrat. Here's the decklist I run:
Yeah, I would run all 4 Lavamancers. They're just that good to me, even mid-game. I like to think of them as a super toned down and fair DRS. Sometimes you just have to exile your own lingering souls and trade the 2 damage for a flashback in order to stay in the game. Thankfully, that doesn't happen too often.
@yarn
Thank you!
I just played a match against a Soul Sisters deck and thought the game was already over when I had to face against 50 life and 2 serra ascendants while I was at 8 life. The MVPs were Vault of the Archangel and Olivia Voldaren. Sometimes you just cannot out-aggro a deck and Olivia proves to be the better choice to Falkenrath Aristocrat in my opinion.
I also had a chance to test out Lavaclaw Reaches in that game. When I had them in hand and I needed mana for Olivia, I really hated having them come in tapped. When I had a good board position, but no cards in hand, I was able to attack with it for 5-7 damage each turn, whittling my opponent down to a more acceptable life total.
When it seemed like I wasn't able to out-aggro my opponent, I had to switch to controlling with Helices, Tidehollows, Olivia, and chumping with lots and lots of Spirit tokens. Whenever my games come to this point, I basically have to stall and hope I live long enough until the opponent's hand is gone and he's out of gas. There needs to be an easier way!
@Crossfire
I'm personally a fan of Ajani. Tapping down a land with a plus ability always slows down my opponent a bit in the early game. Mid-late game, he can always remove something and gain you life.
I also have mixed feelings about Liliana. She's the best planeswalker in Modern, she's extremely versatile, best friends with Bob, and she can fuel our Grim Lavamancers. If we were to run her, how many would be the best? And if we did, should we change the deck to revolve around more discard and Tidehollows, in addition to running a split between IoK and Thoughtseize?
I would recommend running 4 Lilies. If you have 2 in hand and you're using her +1, you can discard the other Lily. IF you're using her -2, she won't be on the board long, not to mention the new planes-walker rule. Like you said, she's versatile, so you don't need to change the deck for her. So many different decks run her.
I have 4 Pithing Needle in my sideboard. It's a good answer to Celestial Colonnade. I like Sorin's Thirst over Tendrils of Corruption because I want cards to play before I lay down lily and arena, not after. On turn 4 I should be playing Damnation anyways.
Here's the decklist that I finally settled on. I realized that the key to my deck is to have both Lily and Arena on the board to create a lot of card advantage while pitching Bloodghast and Demigod of Revenge to my graveyard, so I settled on Sorin's Thirst as a solid turn 2 play to help me against aggro.
4 Bloodghast
4 Demigod of Revenge
Spells
4 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Sorin's Thirst
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Damnation
4 Liliana of the Veil
Enchantments
4 Phyrexian Arena
Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
16 Swamp
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Pithing Needle
2 Duress
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Bloodghast
4 Demigod of Revenge
Spells
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Smallpox
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Damnation
4 Liliana of the Veil
Enchantments
4 Phyrexian Arena
Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Crmetery
16 Swamp
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Duress
4 Pithing Needle
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Kitchen Finks
In the first round I lost to a tokens deck. Lingering Souls is really good against my deck and I think that I need Illness in the ranks for my sideboard. In all the other rounds I faced control decks, where discard was very valuable. Having both Liliana of the Veil and Phyrexian Arena on the board is awesome. I think that those are the two best cards in my deck, so I think that I'm going to cut smallpox, because I don't want to be destroying my own land on turn 2.
I know that this subject is MBC, but I like Abrupt Decay so much for my deck. It takes care of problem cards like Rest in Peace, Oblivion Ring, Pithing Needle, Nevermore, Ensnaring Bridge, as well as the vast majority of cards in standard, all at non-counterable instant speed.
However, I do lose some life with the Overgrown Tombs along and Verdant Catacombs, along with Thoughtseize and Phyrexian Arena, so I'm thinking that I need to add some life gain to the deck to replace smallpox. I'm considering the following cards:
What are your thoughts?
I don't like running Souls with Damnation and Smallpox.
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Gaddock Teeg
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Silverblade Paladin
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Path to Exile
4 Rancor
Lands
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Plains
4 Forrest
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Stony Silence
4 Purify the Grave
4 Aven Mindscensor
I like Stony Silence, Thoightseize, Surgical Extraction, Slaughter Games, Pithing Needle, and disenchant as SB cards.
Or Red would be a better color with cards like Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix, and Electrolyze.
Black gives you lots of options with Lingering Souls, and Liliana of the Veil.
It seems like your deck is slow to produce a combo that involves you producing tokens and drawing cards. It looks like your deck matches up well against midrange decks, but burn and aggro decks would be too fast, and control would out-control you. It seems like board wipes would be a big problem once you get your army out.
And even though I said that your deck matches up well against midrange, honestly I think that it wouldn't do too well against the best midrange deck in modern now, Jund.
Maelstrom Pulse sounds like the perfect card for you. Liliana of the Veil is also very good, and you could use Thrun, the last troll as your wincon, and Tarmogoyf is arguable the best creature in modern. If you want to go the Damnation rout, you could use creatures like Bloodghast, Demigod of Revenge, and Blood Artist.
Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize are both much better than Duress.
Deathrite Shaman with fetchlands like Verdant Catacombs is awesome.
I would run 4 Path to Exile before I would add in a Terminate. Path to Exile is so much better against Wurmcoil Engine, creatures with undying, creatures with persist, creatures that can come back from the graveyard, indestructable creatures, ect, plus it costs 1 less mana.
If you're going to take out Tidehollow Sculler then I would recommend 4 inquisition of kozilek and 4 Liliana of the Veil. Maybe move Sculler to the SB against decks without removal?
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is a very good card, but does he fit the strategy of your deck? He's great for a control deck, but as you described your deck as a beatdown/burn deck, I think that you'd like Falkenrath Aristocrat better as a beatdown card. On the other hand, you said your deck was control a lot, so maybe you could have Sorin in the SB against matches where you want to play midrange/control? Or you could have Falkenrath as a SB card and put her in when you want to beatdown and your opponent isn't running path.
EDIT: What do you guys think about Worldslayer with Falkenrath? It's a great combo, but might be too much of a "win-more" card. It does have synergy with Bloodghast and Lingering Souls, but if I'm connecting with a Falkenrath that has a Sword of Fire and Ice attached to it, I should win the game anyway, and I'd probably replace Sword of Fire and Ice with Worldslayer.
I run 4 Dark Confidant. This deck needs some card advantage.
Bloodghast and Lingering Souls both have great synergy with Liliana of the Veil, Falkenrath Aristocrat, and the equipment. The great thing about my deck is that if my opponent uses Path to Exile on my aristocrat, I can use a Lingering Soul or a Bloodghast with equipment for a finisher.
The problem with Bloodghast and Lingering Souls is that they have negative synergy with Grim Lavamancer, which is why I don't run him.
It's hard to comment without seeing your decklist, but I'm a big fan of Falkenrath Aristocrat. Here's the decklist I run:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Bloodghast
3 Falkenrath Aristocrat
Spells
4 Inquisition of Kolziek
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Lingering Souls
4 Liliana of the Veil
Artifacts
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Loxodon Warhammer
Lands
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Plains
I would recommend running 4 Lilies. If you have 2 in hand and you're using her +1, you can discard the other Lily. IF you're using her -2, she won't be on the board long, not to mention the new planes-walker rule. Like you said, she's versatile, so you don't need to change the deck for her. So many different decks run her.