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  • posted a message on 4-Color Control – Which 4?
    4 colors is probably too much, despite it possibly being reliable I don't think the extra few cards you get to play is worth losing reliability and more importantly, taking extra damage from your shocks.

    Blue indeed seems pivotal for traditional 'control'. You can play perfectly fine without blue as I don't actually think it is that strong (out of the pure blue cards only jace is good, rest is soso). Still I suppose something like GWB is called ramp instead but might actually have the best lategame, courtesy of the amazing activation lands. Augur of bolas is hard to work in control because it just fizzles too often, i liked the card at first as a 1/3 is amazing but im starting to feel it's a trap leading you to not play other goodies.

    Green is surprisingly good and imo almost neccesary to beat aggro. Counters are weak in this format and can't counter much stuff. The best way therefore to lock the game is just by lifegain and blocking. Thragtusk and to a lesser extent centaur healer/huntmaster do this really well. Without these you can lose quite some games to topdecked burn, geralf's messengers etc.

    White is quite solid. It lacks some quality cheap removal but azorius charm will do and detention sphere is just solid (abrupt decay is hardly played anyways). More importantly, verdict and terminus are just the best sweepers. Reliable and never bad. The angel finisher in combination with tusks is great against aggro and works decent in the mirrors too.

    Red is not that great imo. The sweepers are all too conditional i feel. Many of the big guys in WG survive bonfire and mizzium mortars too easily especially with an active gavony. I don't think I like niv mizzet either as maindeck finisher, against aggro it does too little the turn it comes down i think and with most creatures being x/2 starting to ping stuff is also quite slow. In control mirrors it does seem really sweet.

    Finally black is probably worst. Dreadbore is alright and the flashback spells are good (sever the bloodline, lingering souls, forbidden alchemy) but I doubt it's worth it. It's possible to play it as a very light splash though for the flashback spells. Heavy black just sucks probably, lilli is bad now, vampire nighthawk is too vulnerable and mutilate or curse are not good enough now.

    Bant control probably does best now as it has the best aggro matchup I feel. Good sweepers(verdict, terminus) some removal/stall that doesn't care about undying/regenerate etc (azorius charm, feeling of dread, detention sphere) and good lategame in thragtusks and angels.
    It lacks some powercards against other control a la izzet charm but with the resilience of zombies/WG aggro you probably need to preboard against aggro and WUG does that best while still having every card be useful against control. Many of the red cards on the other hand tend to be dead against control (pillar of flame, mizzium mortars etc).

    edit:
    Overall I still doubt if control is worth it. Ramp seems more solid now as there are so many sweeper resistant threats around that it feels easier to baet aggro by just playing fatties/lifegain then by playing sweepers/removal. Ramp especially has awesome lands (vault of the archangel and gavony township) that provide late action while control can easily get stuck without action later on.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Thragtusk
    - Counters are nearly dead
    - Aggro decks hardly have any evasion
    - Tusk is practically impossible to remove 1 for 1, only creature to leave presence after terminus for example
    - Very easily splashable
    (- great interaction with restoration angel)

    Overall it's just a fantastic roadblock against aggro and for midrange against control he is one of your best threats because you practically can't overextend with him.
    It's the type of card that should have been 3GG casting cost really, now i expect many control decks just to splash green for him alone.
    Also his weakness that he doesn't do much against decks that have some sort of combo/inevitable lategame is mitigated now that there exist no such decks. When stuff like pod was around he could just be ignored, but decks don't really have such a strong lategame anymore. With just 1 gavony activation he can basically trade with any commonly played lategame threat.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on The New Top Decks
    Quote from Jubileus
    I've been testing with G/B zombies against my friend's G/W aggro deck and out of the 5 games we've played my record has been the following:

    2-1 (win), 2-1 (win), 2-0 (win), 2-0 (win), 2-0 (win)

    Zombies have a tremendous advantage against G/W aggro. Golgari Charm takes care of the mana dorks on the field which means that leaving an Arbor Elf and an Avacyn Pilgrim exposed at the end of turn 2 can be fatal to the momentum of a G/W deck. All of my wins have included 2-for-1's with Golgari Charm. The other big downside to G/W aggro vs. Zombies is the resilience of zombies such as Gravecrawler, Lotleth Troll, and Geralf's Messenger. They can sit on (and in GC's case on and off) the battlefield with 0 damn's given while they keep wailing on your opponent. Add a Rancor to any of these bad boys and the aggro is just overwhelming.

    Just my two cents though.


    I have the exact reverse, cards like strangleroot geist, loxodon smiter and centaur healer just hold the fort while thragtusk finishes it off.
    The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle between our testing results but I still expect it to have a slight edge to GW.
    A good version of GW only has the manadorks as vulnerable to golgari charm though so usually it will just be a 1 for 1, there are too many effects that murder waves of 1/1s to play more then the 8 accelerators.
    Maybe you played against some subpar version with dryad militants and the like.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on The New Top Decks
    Tier 1:
    GW aggro/midrange
    Very solid deck with selesnya being the best guild in RTR. Trumps zombie on the back of thragtusk and other fatties that block well. Not sure yet if it will feature more ramp and angels or a bit more speed and rancors, i'd favor the latter atm but if GW itself becomes big probably the ramp version does best.

    Tier 1.5:
    Zombies / rakdos aggro
    Fastest solid aggro deck, I think the jund version just playing green for dreg mangler / lotleth troll and red for falkenrath and some burn will come out on top eventually, splashing non-zombie green cards is probably not worth it since they can't be cast of caverns.

    UWg control
    For control you want to be in white still, grixis looks cute and all with the awesome izzet charm but you miss reliable sweepers. Green is basically worth the splash for thragtusk alone but maybe some ramp will feature too.

    Tier 2+:

    UR delver
    It misses ponder and the phyrexian spells too much. It's too slow now, delver doesn't flip often, snapcaster actually needs 4 mana etc. Still people will try it for far too long. Delver/snappie are likely to return when the other blue duals are printed though and a three color manabase becomes solid.

    Frites
    Many sweet cards in standard to set up reanimation now (faithless looting, grisly salvage, izzet charm etc.) but the mana is not that reliable. If the mana improves and the hate fades definately an outsider

    grixis, WUR, jund control etc.
    many forms of control are possible but I don't think any will be as succesful as the traditional UW base. Other combinations don't seem to give good card draw, sweepers and finishers and you need all three. Grixis looks pretty solid but dealing with undying, regeneration and big guys is hard in these colors. I don't think niv mizzet is as good a finisher as thragtusk into angel of serenity either.

    Other decks
    RDW, humans etc. may mise a win here and there but don't look solid. There is always the option of a combo showing up in this severe lack of counters but I doubt there exist any.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on is bonfire no longer "that good"?
    Both are not that great now I'd say.

    The lingering souls and weenie decks are lacking in card quality so they won't see too much play probably. Plus there is lot's of other hate for the weenie's already.
    The premier aggro decks are probably GW aggro and zombies. Zombies have most 2 toughness and many regenerate/undie/can be played from grave. Bonfire is just a tad slow against them.
    GW aggro has some manadorks worth frying but most if not all of the other stuff has big butts or comes back. Strangleroot, call of the conclave, loxodon smiter etc.
    The early miracled bonfire is just rarely a real onesided wrath anymore and the hardcasted one becomes even more impossible making it imo an unplayable card now. The aggro deck that plays bonfire to win aggro mirrors sort of doesn't exist anymore either, since RG is a difficult combination now.
    Maybe when stomping ground returns..

    Mizzium mortars is better as it actually trades 1 for 1 decently and has the wrath option which is quite well but it's not the greatest card either.

    The best sweeper in red now is actually Rolling Temblor , few small guys fly and the flashback etc. makes it a fairly solid card.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Pillars of the new Standard
    caverns sees very little play, it is only playable in zombies and for a zombie jund build you can even argue if it's worth as 4-of.
    The counter clause is hardly relevant as counters that counter creatures are practically not played anyway because they just suck. Syncopate is a terrible spell and 3 mana vanilla counters are too expensive. Plus other stuff already hates on counters like loxodon smiter.

    Nevertheless the pillar discussion is always a bit arbitrary ofcourse.
    I think the biggest format shaper right now is actually thragtusk, it makes green and slightly ramping strategies so insanely good that it practically pushes other stuff out of the format. The lack of quality counters, lack of combo and hardly any top end threats can completely trump the tusk make it insane right now. It's also the only quality card to keep presence after terminus making it even decent as an aggresive option.
    Snappy/delver are not so great right now. Delver misses ponder to set it up reliably and a critical amount of quality cheap spells to play the tempo game. Those same cheap spells are lacking for delver as well, when delver is a 4 mana spell most of the time it's not looking as attractive anymore.

    pillar of flame i wouldn't call a pillar either, it doesn't really define decks or shape people's choices much. It's a good answer card but it still just trades 1 for 1 at sorcery speed with the cards it kills so well, strangleroot geist, geralf's messenger and gravecrawler are still 4-ofs in their respective decks because they are just such solid creatures.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
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