Magic Market Index for Sep 14th, 2018
 
Magic Market Index for Sep 6th, 2018
 
Magic Market Index: Hit Over Miss
  • posted a message on Blue/Green Archetype discussion
    I'm a big fan of control/combo in Blue Green: Tinker, Show and Tell, Eureka, Channel and Oath of Druids are great for cheating fatties into play. Blue would be the dominant colour in this archetype with draw and counterspell support, but green is still great for artifact/enchantment hate and alternative kill conditions (the 4 CMC Garruk Planeswalkers are perfect in this archetype).
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on [GRN][CUBE] Tajic, Legion's Edge
    Quote from Goodking »
    A smorgasboard of abilities on a pushed dude, I like it more and more the longer I think about it. It would be a nice follow-up to something like Adorned Pouncer, as a Mentor counter dump.

    I think I like this slightly more than Aurelia and will try Tajic out over Charm. The Boltproofing clause would feel less like flavour text were the card non-red, since you're still going to be mopping up several burn spells in draft, but I do expect it to be impactful. It does hit the odd colourless card in addition to a huge number of red burn spells. And a fair few R/x planeswalkers will struggle to protect against him too.


    It does have a strong trinket text-vibe to it, since I'd expect Tajic to be the target of choice in most cases anyway. It's still upside though, of course.
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [GRN][CUBE] Tajic, Legion's Edge
    You still leave a +1/+1 counter behind if you attack into a lethal blocker. What happens if your opponent doesn't have a creature? This card causes 9 damage on its own by turn 4. That's insane. I think this card will prove to be better than Ahn-Crop Crasher. But even if it's not, that's nothing to be ashamed of. We're running Crasher at 360.
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [CUBE][GRN] Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice
    This is a great creature. I like her over White's fours in aggro (Armageddon loses a bit of power in a small powered cube) but would still play Hellrider, Hero of Oxid Ridge and Koth over her. I think she'll just barely miss our boros section.
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [GRN][CUBE] Tajic, Legion's Edge
    Slam dunk in our 360 cube. Acts a bit like a 4-power haste with upside. Easy money.
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [GRN][CUBE] Connive//Concoct
    I wish the Connive half cost 3, though that may have been a bit pushed. I think it just barely misses the mark in its current form.
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [GRN][CUBE] Connive//Concoct
    Quote from Cythare »


    I'm not sure this is good enough, but it does a decent amount of cool things all in one card, and I think is worth bringing up. The Control Magic mode only costing 2 makes the 2-power restriction fine, and is an acceptable stopgap, and the Reanimator mode helps ensure that you'll have something worth reanimating.

    May fall short for me with my section being Baleful Strix, Hostage Taker, The Scarab God and Dragonlord Silumgar, but it would be nice to put a noncreature card back into Dimir.


    The Control Magic mode costs 4, right? What do you mean?
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [GRN][CUBE] Nullhide Ferrox
    Quote from allred123 »
    Currently I run Master of the Wild Hunt, Oracle of Mul Daya, and Thrun, the Last Troll. I think Oracle and Thrun are better than it. I could see replacing Master since most of the time it comes down and just dies. I also run Kalonian Hydra at 5 though and could maybe see replacing it with that since they are both just big beat sticks. I would need to test though to see if the 2 mana tax is better than the trample.


    Even though cubes often run a lot of efficient removal that can kill this, swords / path to exile would cost 3 mana which means you are still trading even in terms of mana cost (or close enough), and against control decks it's easier to commit to the board knowing you just turned wraths into 6 mana (5 for toxic Deluge I suppose, but it would be 5 + 6 life)


    Why would this card add mana to sweepers?
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [GRN][CUBE] Legion Warboss
    Quote from Gabrosin »
    Quote from wtwlf123 »
    I'll try to illustrate it a different way. Unless I'm forgetting something (which is certainly possible), there are currently only two creatures in the history of Magic that deal 20+ damage entirely on their own by the end of combat on Turn 6. That's Goblin Rabblemaster and Najeela, the Blade-Blossom. Leigon Warboss will become the third. Each has their legitimate pros and cons in comparison to one another. I see no reason not to play all 3 of them.


    Posed this question for discussion and got back some more possible answers:

    Markov Blademaster
    Pack Rat (assumes you get your third land)
    Figure of Destiny (assumes you make consistent land drops until T5)
    Warden of the First Tree (assumes you make consistent land drops until T6)
    Vexing Devil (if they don't pay to force it to sacrifice)
    Hunted Horror (makes its own blockers, so it definitely feels like this shouldn't count)


    Nice post. While Pack Rat involves a heavy investment in mana and cards, by my count it's actually lethal by the end of combat on turn 5. A nice distinction for the rats.

    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on This or That discussion.
    It would take a huge cube size for me to play either, but I would go with Masticore. In my experience it is the kind of creature than can go in very controllish builds and the cost of having to exile a creature can therefore be extremely steep. I would never play a Masticore variant in an aggro deck.

    As a somewhat comparable card, I would say that Walking Ballista is infinitely superior to either. But I assume you're playing that already.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on [GRN][CUBE] Legion Warboss
    Quote from wtwlf123 »
    Crasher is maybe better for hard aggro. But just hard aggro. All of the variants we're discussing here go into more decks. If you support token strategies of any kind, or sacrifice decks, or anything else that can benefit from having extra bodies on the board, cards like Najeela and Garrison gain a ton of value.

    Red is more than just RDW in my cube, and in those other archetypes, I get far more mileage by including the token-engine creatures.

    I don't play 5-color aggro decks either, but I've activated Najeela's ability multiple times.

    Quote from Swarles_Barkley »
    As another small indication, Ahn-Crop Crasher is the 5th most played red creature in competitive (duel) commander. As far as I am aware, Najeela does not see any competitive play.


    Najeela 5-0'd two 1v1 Commander leagues yesterday alone... She's one of the 12 most popular competitive 1v1 commanders out there.


    You're right that the token generators go into more decks, and that's a fair point. We've drafted Hanweir Garrison in midrange regularly.

    As to Commander, lol @ that - I missed that on mtgtop8.com. Of course her ability allows you to play all colours, so that's a commander-specific advantage that doesn't really translate to cube.
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [GRN][CUBE] Legion Warboss
    Quote from LucidVision »

    As to your last point, I absolutely would run Ahn-Crop Crasher over Najeela, and we've been considering it over Hanweir Garrison (Rabbie is top dog). According to Cubetutor, it sees a lot more play than Najeela (at least partially due to Najeela's recency, to be fair) and also has a higher pick percentage than Najeela and even than Hanweir Garrison.


    those last statistics are mostly irrelevant. Most people drafting on cube tutor aren't taking it seriously, or are terrible at magic. Random drop ins that draft my cube and save the deck draft horrendously. I don't think ive ever? seen a reasonable draft of it heh. Not sure how they calculate the pick percentage either... Ahn-crop is an uncommon so will be in peasent cubes, and picked proportionally higher just due to that.

    I've cubed with ahn-crop crasher for a few months back when it was spoiled, it's a solid creature but a clear step below Najeela. Without any warriors, in mono red.. Add some warriors in the mix, or a 5c agro deck and they aren't even close.


    I'll start by confessing that I have cubed with neither Najeela nor Ahn-Crop Crasher. That said, I really cannot fathom playing Najeela over the Crasher - essentially ever. Najeela is so much slower than I would also say they are not even close. It may depend a lot on your cube environment - as your cube gets smaller, it tends to get faster. We play a very small cube (360). We have also not once played a 5c aggro deck.

    As another small indication, Ahn-Crop Crasher is the 5th most played red creature in competitive (duel) commander. As far as I am aware, Najeela does not see any competitive play.
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [GRN][CUBE] Legion Warboss
    Quote from wtwlf123 »
    [quote=Tjornan]This card is just much more consistent than Najeela at doing the thing you want in that deck - murdering your opponent ASAP.


    At the moment, Najeela is like ...the 2nd fastest clock in the history of Magic. I think you're severely underselling her ability to apply pressure.

    Also, am I the only person with other Warriors in my cube? Have you had her in play with another Warrior out? She IS the fastest clock in Magic with one warrior on the table already. I've been able to draft 3-color Warrior tribal decks around Najeela since there's so many playable Warriors around. People discuss it like it's some irrelevant upside, when it should be a part of her overall evaluation. Without other warriors, I guess she'll have to settle for being the 3rd fastest clock of all time after this new creature is printed. Terrible.


    I'm not sure that just considering the clock time in isolation is very relevant. By that metric Grothama, All-Devouring equals Hanweir Garrison, but Grothama is a pretty bad card. The point with Najeela is that in most scenarios she requires three swings to have a better result on an empty board (with unclear differences in most other board states) than the Warboss. That's a big ask, and although she spirals out of control like none of the other ones, at the point where she does a lot of it is just winning more.

    EDIT - a solid point that's been brought up that I hadn't considered is that Rabblemaster gets pumped so can break board states e.g. where there's 3+ toughness creatures on the board. That's why we will be testing Warboss - I can very well be wrong in my intuition that it is #2 in his category.

    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [GRN][CUBE] Legion Warboss
    Quote from LucidVision »
    Quote from Tjornan »
    Quote from LucidVision »
    Quote from Tjornan »
    I like this card a lot. I'd say it's about equivalent to Garrison (swings for 1 more point on t4, gets a point in on t3, but lower toughness is big). I think this card is an easy include at 450 alongside Garrison and Rabblemaster. Red 3's have come a long way.

    FWIW, this card is way way better than Najeela - from a damage output perspective, it's not close. If both are played on t3 and are unchecked, Najeela doesn't exceed Legion Warboss's damage output until turn 7, and it's just as easy to block. The warrior synergy and ability are cool, but neither come up enough to justify playing it over Warboss.



    Hyperbole much?
    In a vacuum their cumulative damage output is
    1 -> 6 -> 13 -> 22
    0 -> 4 -> 10 -> 20

    this is "not close" to you?

    Najeela has advantages of 3 power , warrior synergies (which are relevant), has 5c multi-color advantage (which is relevant in my cube and wouldnt be surprised if a few other cubes get 5c agro decks).. Legion warleader has the downside of must attack when opponent has a lifelink creature. Warleader generates a small advantage through sorcery speed removal.

    In the average cube I expect legion warleader to be slightly better, way better is pushing it a lot, way way better is an abuse of the English language.


    Looks like this thread has blown up quite a bit and I missed the train... oops.

    In any case, the difference between 22 and 20 is negligible. The difference between 6 and 4, however, is huge. When you’re trying to squeeze every point out of your cards and you don’t expect these kinds of cards to swing twice (let alone three times), those two points can be the difference between a dead and stabilized opponent. So no, it’s not close to me.

    At least for us, these cards tend to go in aggressive decks, so baseline damage output is the first thing I look for in these cards. This card is just much more consistent than Najeela at doing the thing you want in that deck - murdering your opponent ASAP.


    Didn't mean to be rude in my original post, (fwiw I have a lot of respect for your custom cube, very cool!).. and I agree with you that uninterupted damage output is the most important metric to look at when evaluating a red creature... but all the other attributes combined more than make up for a lower uninterrupted damage output.

    I disagree with your comparison though, the damage beyond the 2nd turn that both najeela and Legion warleader can produce is very important to their average damage output.

    Even if the average (or median) frequency of hitting the opponent is once.. The average OUTPUT (more relevant to it's power level) is not the damage the creatures does after one hit. The average damage a creature does is a weighted sum of the damage they do across all possible scenarios multiplied by the likelihood of those scenarios occurring...
    The damage when rabblemaster type creatures run away with the game is so high, that even if it's not very frequent, it has a large effect on their average output... and in that zone najeela competes favorably with Legion warleader... WITHOUT a warrior.

    If this wasn't true then shouldn't Anh-crop crasher be rated higher than goblin rabblemaster and Legion warleader?
    Anh crop crasher's first two turns damage is 3->6 AND can get through a blocker on the second turn on top of that.
    Silverblade paladin's damage output soulbonded with a measly 2/1 is 2->8.. Puts ANY red 3 drop to shame... Why isn't anyone running it anymore?


    As to your last point, I absolutely would run Ahn-Crop Crasher over Najeela, and we've been considering it over Hanweir Garrison (Rabbie is top dog). According to Cubetutor, it sees a lot more play than Najeela (at least partially due to Najeela's recency, to be fair) and also has a higher pick percentage than Najeela and even than Hanweir Garrison.
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [GRN][CUBE] Legion Warboss
    [Weird formatting]
    Posted in: Cube New Card Discussion
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.