A friend of mine is liquidating his collection so he's offering to sell me a legacy deck for 60-80% of it's price.
60-80% of which price though? If it's SCG pricing then you're maybe not getting that great of a discount. If you can get 20% off duals that are appropriately priced to begin with it's a snap buy for all blue dual lands IMO.
Does anyone have any thoughts into buying into a legacy deck right now? Should I aim for dual lands? Are tarmogoyfs worth buying when they could be reprinted in the future?
Tarmo can only really go down from now I would think, he will likely hold and then get cheaper near MM2 or whatever other supplemental product they release is, buying him now is at a loss for sure but if you want to play the lili/abrupt decay/DRS package then you must have him. I personally play either Shardless BUG or BUG delver, I switch back in forth in paper depending on if I want to grind or pressure people. Seems like you gravitate towards fair decks so that kind of flexibility is nice. Ultimately I suggest buying underground sea over volcanic island for the long term. Based on your deck preferences I'd suggest these in order spending money now:
Duals - restricted list
Jace - low price, not likely to reprinted for a little while
Lili - could spike up if Jund continues to do well
Baleful strix - Cheap now
Umezawas Jitte/wasteland/FoW - will be reprinted in some kind of legacy supplement after modern likely?
hymn/daze/thoughtseize/spell snare/delver/young pyromancer/plow - cheap staples that will creep up on you, love getting these in big deals as they are often freebies.
stifle - cheap now
drs/decay/verdict - cheap now, get in next few months even if you decide to not buy anything above
I was being quite polite when I said you seem to not have played enough magic, don't need to be rude. I have played the Legacy format since I first started playing Magic late 2010. Since then I have noticed how blue does do powerful effects, yes it helps organise your library, help save from combos that will kill you, but it isn't the most powerful colour. It most decks that use it are basic shells that splash a different colour of just run a lot of blue in them because they do not have enough cards to implement their strategy so they need to dig. look at the field of decks people can choose from in Legacy. Go on. Browse the established and developing forums. Look how many decks run blue in them. About 1/5. Meaning blue is where it should be since their are 5 colours in magic. Now a proper term for how blue stands in Legacy to this date is "Blue is the BEST CONTROL colour".
Blue is the most powerful colour in legacy, the prices of the cards reflect that. I don't think arguing the definition of "powerful" is really relevant nor is trying to correlate the power levels of the colours based on the archetype distribution in the legacy forums. The metagame is heavily skewed towards creature tempo decks with blue right now as well as UWR miracles, you're not seeing only 1-2 blue decks make top 8s in large tournaments - you're often seeing 5-8. Jace/brainstorm/strix/delver/shardless are all great cards that can compete with the other colour's biggest bombs on top of having the control cards like FoW/daze/pierce/submerge/etc.
I don't remember tarmogoyf spiking after MM release, in fact I remember people complaining about his price not tanking and finding all kinds of eBay BINs at ~80$ for the MM versions. He shot up a couple months later but there was a window to buy all the tarmos you wanted to at <100$ pretty easily. It didn't help that not only did the player base increase but several archetypes in both modern and legacy popped up featuring 4x tarmogoyf that didn't exist before over the last year (tarmo twin, zoo, BUG delver in legacy, etc).
I'm curious as to how people are constructing their sideboards and how they are adjusting their mainboard sweepers, for reference here's what I've been running so far but I've got some questions about some sideboard options:
Sideboarding: I'm curious about Bow of Nylea, it seems like it would help a lot against burn and would be fine in Jund mirrors but I haven't tested it enough. Also I've been wondering about Jund Charm vs Anger of the Gods; Jund charm seems like it might be decent in the maindeck along with 1 anger as it still hurts creature swarming type decks (affinity, pod, etc) but it gives options vs the rest of the field as well. I think 3 3CMC sweepers is needed I'm just not sure of the right mixture and whether Jund Charm maindeck (or even side) is good enough? Is there any reason to play 3x Anger vs 2x Anger/1x Jund charm? I can't think of too many x/3s that are really prevalent and the exile clause is good against Pod for sure but being able to get their GY is also pretty good and that splashes over to snapcaster decks/living end/anything GY based/some Twin variants.
I had galspanic do 2 sets for me, I grabbed some pics since I think they're a really clean looking job. I've had the cards for 1-2 years and they've been played in a few different decks, I'm not particular about how I handle my cards all told and they've held all very well and still look the same as when I got them. I've had other alters not hold up great long term and be a bit distinguishable in a deck through the feel/sound.
I never thought of selling off the packs, I've actually bought packs (about 20) at 12$ each and pulled decently well. Some cards you will need to hold on to for longer for them to go back up (uncommons and fringe rares) but buying loose packs for cheap doesn't seem too bad. I'm not sure what the mapping status of the set is but the top packs are always shuffled around so it gives the illusion of safety. The pack cost shot way up so as trade fodder I think it's good (in person), most likely the person is doing it for the trill of opening a handful of packs and hitting the jackpot so you could probably nab some solid trades to resell.
I've always felt that I would rather have the box sealed in my closet than opening it every single time, I've even had great pulls before but still I had to deal with all the mid-low value stuff. Like a good box is a couple big ticket items + avoid bulk rares and open $5-10 cards in their place. Maybe I just opened far too many of those mythic dragons, my biggest gripe with the set was placing those things at mythic. I wish they would of put more $20-30 cards instead of the dragons at mythic which made it so you could get screwed pretty easily of you ran into a pile of those.
Sure it "gained" but I don't think it warrants any real discussion outside of a 'hey look it went up a little' since buying a set for yourself hasn't really become out of reach for anyone and suggesting people speculate on this type of card is IMO awful advice. The issue with low value cards that only gain marginal value is that moving them is hell, buying them in any appreciable quantity is hell and people will just go to a store to buy this type of card when making a deck. Cards that were cheap that I speculated highly on from modern were cards like spellskite, splinter twin, and birthing pod. Those all had the same quality in that they are required, powerful and people recognize the value to them immediately. TIB is the type of card that you might end up with a pile of that you can't move and are just hoping people give you your money back in the long run.
A card that I think is undervalued is Past in Flames, mythic from a set that will only trend up in value long term and sees play in legacy and modern. It's not the type of card you can just not have if you're running a storm deck in modern, I don't imagine people would be surprised to see the card selling for $10-15 or even higher in the future.
Is it just me or is Liliana of the Veil sitting pretty stagnant these last few months ($55-$60 per)? What are the chances of her hitting $100+ this coming season?...she seems pretty safe on the Modern scene (and we already know she's a gold digger in Legacy), she just feels super under priced right now with regards to her rarity and demand that's currently undertow.
S.M.
There's not very much interest in the card right now from what I can see, after DRS got banned Jund has been under-performing quite a bit in modern. She's been seeing some decent legacy play but not usually as a 4-of, IMO she'll go up slowly but there's not any big gains to be had really. I've had a few sets for sale for 55$ for a couple weeks now and there's been 0 interest, usually if the card is in demand people will try to at least lowball me to get sets for their decks but that's not the case at all lately.
I just don't see a lot of people dishing out the money to play Jund in modern right now, maybe if the 8rack deck picks up some steam (especially with M15 and Waste Not) she'll see some more interest? I don't see people being excited to build Jund, I watch the online results fairly closely for the deck doing well and it's just not that strong right now. I think it does well here and there mostly due to the sheer mass of people that own the cards playing the deck but right now it's all about Twin or pod decks from what I've been seeing. Also without DRS threatening a T2 liliana or accelerating your game plan she's a lot less scary in modern right now.
Why not run them in parallel? Something you guys aren't considering is that many traders/sellers/buyers prefer the forum style, they clearly haven't warmed up to your new style because they simply all just flat out left. The new trading post IMO is doing a disservice to your community here as when I was brand new to the game I used this place to buy cards below market value and also better equip myself with the knowledge of what stuff is worth, now that's basically gone. In order for new people to be attracted to your trading post you'll need a base of traders making it active to begin with, you guys essentially wiped them all out with your move and I doubt they'll ever come back no matter how many "tweaks" you make. By the time you guys make it "better" than the old system you'll have lost the base of members that made it good to begin with. This type of system only works when there's active members with lots of feedback to give assurance to newer traders they won't get scammed.
It feels a lot like trying to fix something that didn't feel broken to begin with, look at MOTL that forum is a dinosaur and people have no problem using it and conducting some pretty large transactions over there. This place felt a little more friendly and you'd run into people looking for cards for their own decks/selling off their unneeded cards rather than the stores/speculators that use MOTL.
As soon as they converted it into this new system I took my business to MOTL entirely for trading/selling/buying. I just find this new system I can't really take in as much information as quickly/efficiently. I liked being able to scan through people's sale lists quickly picking out stuff I'd want or good deals now it feels really cumbersome and awkward. Also like mentioned before, if people don't write the name of the card right it won't show up, it just feels like a step in the wrong direction. I used to use this site much more than MOTL until this new trading post came around, honestly think you guys should just converted it back to a basic forum, if you want to implement the trading post style keep it confined to a search tool in it's own thread stickied at the top that people can use if they choose.
It feels like it's a separate section of the website when IMO it should be integrated into the forums, I'm guessing lots of new people probably won't ever realize how active it is or that it even exists at all.
I don't think sellers are holding any high quantities of duals, there's not really a bubble unless legacy interest dies or they reprint them somehow. I've seen a lot less dual lands for sale and the people who have them have only a handful these days compared to other staples. I don't think people will just dump their sets of dual lands because they've probably done it before and ended up having to rebuild, there is obviously a price where people won't be able to stand the temptation but I think the type of people holding these lands are the type that are okay knowing they're worth so much and not selling with any panic. Fetches and other modern legal staples will be reprinted so people will capitalize on a price spike aggressively which causes the price to usually cool off a little but still remain higher than before until reprints happen. There is an entirely different mindset people adopt to reserve list cards, especially the dual lands - if I need it/am going to need it/might need it selling it will cost me money and it will be a hassle to reacquire them.
You can still get them for a reasonable rate if you camp selling forums and be willing to take SP/MP, local ads can be decent too but most people want too much - sometimes deals can be had if you purchase a larger quantity locally compared to online as well.
The only reason trop has doubled in price is because the others have doubled in price. They were easily had in the $80-90 a months ago, but as soon as someone in this thread mention how undervalued they were, they pretty much doubled. The demand for the card is no way from actual increased legacy play, it's just people not wanting to miss out on the chance to own them for 'cheap', or looking to quick flip them from the panic buyers.
I disagree; BUG variants have been tearing it up in the SCG scene lately which IMO drives a lot of the card prices. When painter had some good SCG results all of a sudden all the components jumped in value, same with that Jund depths deck. I'm not saying your point isn't some part of it but it's my strong opinion a lot of the pressure on this card is people moving from esper midrange decks to BUG midrange strategies and a lot of people that play Jund in modern can move into BUG. Having access to DRS/abrupt decay/FoW/lili/TNN/goyf/brainstorm is a strong package right now in legacy. Tundra is probably undervalued too right now, if esper variants get a new toy or the meta shifts a little it could easily spike way up too, as it stands now tundra is sort of in stasis since esper is losing it's metagame share to BUG.
I was thinking as soon as I saw food chain in the feature match it was going to get bought up, just checked and TCG has been completely cleaned out except for 4 copies that are now $17. Previously there was a whole ton of copies all over TCG for ~$5. I can't help but laugh at all the people trying to buy copies from sellers on here/MOTL that haven't adjusted their prices yet "I'll take all your food chains for $5 each, thanks". Seeing this type of thing makes me wonder how many copies of these types of cards that spike are just going to rot in someone's binder as I doubt there's all that much demand for this card at the new inflated price.
I've been out of touch with the market (and Magic in general) these last few months, so I have some questions:
1. What the heck is happening with Wasteland? Is it true that I'm seeing MPR copies at $380 and Judge ar $300? O_o That's totally more expensive than like, a Tabernacle or Candelabra, which is bananas.
2. I'm trying to find how much my Judge Vendilion Cliques are worth now, last time I checked was like 5 months ago at $110 and it seems that they've dissapeared from this world. I can't find listing in TCG nor eBay and SCG is out of stock. That particular printing was never a highly demanded one, so it's weird.
3. Any other card price spikes worth mentioning? I got lots of Legacy staples and I'm curious.
I've got a few judge cliques so I've been sort of trying to track them myself, I had some about a year ago and they were worth about the same for the longest time. Lately I've been seeing them finish for 120-140 on eBay, SCG had some for 99$/89$(SP) for a while but I guess someone got them. I'd not be surprised to see them go to 150$ on SCG if they restock, probably safe to say they're around 130 right now. I think the art is really sweet, the color with the foiling on the background area is pretty nice IMO.
I don't really see sword being great vs the stuff you say is in your local meta, sword is slower in my mind since you have to get it to resolve and then you have to equip it to a creature to get it to give any value, if they respond to the equip by destroying your creature it's a pretty big tempo loss. Chandra you tap out once and then it's a big problem for them to really get rid of it/prevent you from accumulating value off it, it also has some good synergy with courser but that's just some extra value. I've also liked Chandra in the situation where tron barely manages to get a wurmcoil down before they are about to get hit for lethal and then I slam chandra and +1 making it so the wurmcoil cannot block and gain them the life. I'd personally also run some number of fulminator mages or if budget even molten rain would be decent, I don't see as much tron personally but I imagine some SB extra LD would be pretty sweet since it can usually get under tron and take out colonnades early on before the defenses are fully up.
I'd change the mana base around a little, I'm no expert on this subject but I don't really like the tec edges here or the treetop villages. I'd move to the filter land plan since it facilitates your 3 drops a lot more comfortably and prevents you from having to shock yourself quite so much as well to ensure you can play BB/GG/RR spells on T3. I'd cut the sword to start, it's only good vs very specific decks in very specific situations and can be very slow. I really only loved the sword in Jund mirror or other midrange grindy fights, since cutting it from my side I haven't really missed it too much yet (I brought it in vs burn just cause I didn't have enough stuff to bring in mostly). Kitchen finks seemed really good once DRS got banned but then everyone started playing more scoozes and when you think about it what's the card even good vs other than specifically burn? Against control I'd much rather have courser, it's not very good against B/G decks anymore since they are all running 3-4 scooze MD and lots of the new jund decks run anger so that's no good there either (it also doesn't work well with your own angers, I imagine the decks you bring anger in vs you mostly keep the finks in too?)
I think you're really missing the boat with anger MD as well, it has the ability to just straight up win vs a lot of the other decks in the meta right now, I've completely blown out pod decks with that card a number of times as well as affinity/zoo. If you land a good anger it's super difficult to come back from against Jund since our card quality is so high, often times we are fine going 1 for 1 - imagine the blow outs if we can get 2-3 cards off a single anger. I really liked bonfire before for the same reasons as I'm liking anger, it's insane vs just random creature decks you'll face (soul sisters, merfolk, zoo, other jund decks, etc) and strong against tough match ups like Pod/U/W pyromancer/affinity - essentially anger shores up things vs decks we can't effectively 1 for 1 against, either because it's not cost efficient or because we can't grind them out because they're too fast. I didn't like it as much before since I always wanted DRS on the table but now the only creature in my deck that really gets hurt by anger is bob, most of the other stuff will be x/4.
60-80% of which price though? If it's SCG pricing then you're maybe not getting that great of a discount. If you can get 20% off duals that are appropriately priced to begin with it's a snap buy for all blue dual lands IMO.
Tarmo can only really go down from now I would think, he will likely hold and then get cheaper near MM2 or whatever other supplemental product they release is, buying him now is at a loss for sure but if you want to play the lili/abrupt decay/DRS package then you must have him. I personally play either Shardless BUG or BUG delver, I switch back in forth in paper depending on if I want to grind or pressure people. Seems like you gravitate towards fair decks so that kind of flexibility is nice. Ultimately I suggest buying underground sea over volcanic island for the long term. Based on your deck preferences I'd suggest these in order spending money now:
Duals - restricted list
Jace - low price, not likely to reprinted for a little while
Lili - could spike up if Jund continues to do well
Baleful strix - Cheap now
Umezawas Jitte/wasteland/FoW - will be reprinted in some kind of legacy supplement after modern likely?
hymn/daze/thoughtseize/spell snare/delver/young pyromancer/plow - cheap staples that will creep up on you, love getting these in big deals as they are often freebies.
stifle - cheap now
drs/decay/verdict - cheap now, get in next few months even if you decide to not buy anything above
Blue is the most powerful colour in legacy, the prices of the cards reflect that. I don't think arguing the definition of "powerful" is really relevant nor is trying to correlate the power levels of the colours based on the archetype distribution in the legacy forums. The metagame is heavily skewed towards creature tempo decks with blue right now as well as UWR miracles, you're not seeing only 1-2 blue decks make top 8s in large tournaments - you're often seeing 5-8. Jace/brainstorm/strix/delver/shardless are all great cards that can compete with the other colour's biggest bombs on top of having the control cards like FoW/daze/pierce/submerge/etc.
2 Courser of Kruphix
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
Planeswalkers
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Liliana of the Veil
Sorcery
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
Instants
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Slaughter Pact
1 Terminate
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Forest
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Raging Ravine
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Twilight Mire
1 Stomping Ground
2 Slaughter Games
1 Golgari Charm
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Jund Charm
1 Thrun, the last troll
1 Batterskull
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Explosives
Sideboarding: I'm curious about Bow of Nylea, it seems like it would help a lot against burn and would be fine in Jund mirrors but I haven't tested it enough. Also I've been wondering about Jund Charm vs Anger of the Gods; Jund charm seems like it might be decent in the maindeck along with 1 anger as it still hurts creature swarming type decks (affinity, pod, etc) but it gives options vs the rest of the field as well. I think 3 3CMC sweepers is needed I'm just not sure of the right mixture and whether Jund Charm maindeck (or even side) is good enough? Is there any reason to play 3x Anger vs 2x Anger/1x Jund charm? I can't think of too many x/3s that are really prevalent and the exile clause is good against Pod for sure but being able to get their GY is also pretty good and that splashes over to snapcaster decks/living end/anything GY based/some Twin variants.
Any thoughts?
Link
I've always felt that I would rather have the box sealed in my closet than opening it every single time, I've even had great pulls before but still I had to deal with all the mid-low value stuff. Like a good box is a couple big ticket items + avoid bulk rares and open $5-10 cards in their place. Maybe I just opened far too many of those mythic dragons, my biggest gripe with the set was placing those things at mythic. I wish they would of put more $20-30 cards instead of the dragons at mythic which made it so you could get screwed pretty easily of you ran into a pile of those.
A card that I think is undervalued is Past in Flames, mythic from a set that will only trend up in value long term and sees play in legacy and modern. It's not the type of card you can just not have if you're running a storm deck in modern, I don't imagine people would be surprised to see the card selling for $10-15 or even higher in the future.
There's not very much interest in the card right now from what I can see, after DRS got banned Jund has been under-performing quite a bit in modern. She's been seeing some decent legacy play but not usually as a 4-of, IMO she'll go up slowly but there's not any big gains to be had really. I've had a few sets for sale for 55$ for a couple weeks now and there's been 0 interest, usually if the card is in demand people will try to at least lowball me to get sets for their decks but that's not the case at all lately.
I just don't see a lot of people dishing out the money to play Jund in modern right now, maybe if the 8rack deck picks up some steam (especially with M15 and Waste Not) she'll see some more interest? I don't see people being excited to build Jund, I watch the online results fairly closely for the deck doing well and it's just not that strong right now. I think it does well here and there mostly due to the sheer mass of people that own the cards playing the deck but right now it's all about Twin or pod decks from what I've been seeing. Also without DRS threatening a T2 liliana or accelerating your game plan she's a lot less scary in modern right now.
It feels a lot like trying to fix something that didn't feel broken to begin with, look at MOTL that forum is a dinosaur and people have no problem using it and conducting some pretty large transactions over there. This place felt a little more friendly and you'd run into people looking for cards for their own decks/selling off their unneeded cards rather than the stores/speculators that use MOTL.
It feels like it's a separate section of the website when IMO it should be integrated into the forums, I'm guessing lots of new people probably won't ever realize how active it is or that it even exists at all.
You can still get them for a reasonable rate if you camp selling forums and be willing to take SP/MP, local ads can be decent too but most people want too much - sometimes deals can be had if you purchase a larger quantity locally compared to online as well.
I disagree; BUG variants have been tearing it up in the SCG scene lately which IMO drives a lot of the card prices. When painter had some good SCG results all of a sudden all the components jumped in value, same with that Jund depths deck. I'm not saying your point isn't some part of it but it's my strong opinion a lot of the pressure on this card is people moving from esper midrange decks to BUG midrange strategies and a lot of people that play Jund in modern can move into BUG. Having access to DRS/abrupt decay/FoW/lili/TNN/goyf/brainstorm is a strong package right now in legacy. Tundra is probably undervalued too right now, if esper variants get a new toy or the meta shifts a little it could easily spike way up too, as it stands now tundra is sort of in stasis since esper is losing it's metagame share to BUG.
I've got a few judge cliques so I've been sort of trying to track them myself, I had some about a year ago and they were worth about the same for the longest time. Lately I've been seeing them finish for 120-140 on eBay, SCG had some for 99$/89$(SP) for a while but I guess someone got them. I'd not be surprised to see them go to 150$ on SCG if they restock, probably safe to say they're around 130 right now. I think the art is really sweet, the color with the foiling on the background area is pretty nice IMO.
I think you're really missing the boat with anger MD as well, it has the ability to just straight up win vs a lot of the other decks in the meta right now, I've completely blown out pod decks with that card a number of times as well as affinity/zoo. If you land a good anger it's super difficult to come back from against Jund since our card quality is so high, often times we are fine going 1 for 1 - imagine the blow outs if we can get 2-3 cards off a single anger. I really liked bonfire before for the same reasons as I'm liking anger, it's insane vs just random creature decks you'll face (soul sisters, merfolk, zoo, other jund decks, etc) and strong against tough match ups like Pod/U/W pyromancer/affinity - essentially anger shores up things vs decks we can't effectively 1 for 1 against, either because it's not cost efficient or because we can't grind them out because they're too fast. I didn't like it as much before since I always wanted DRS on the table but now the only creature in my deck that really gets hurt by anger is bob, most of the other stuff will be x/4.