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Treasure Cruisin' Amulet's End
 
Magic Market Index for April 19, 2019
  • posted a message on Kotaku preview - Giver of Runes
    Hermoine, is that you? The “art” is awful. It just looks like a photoshopped photograph. Cheap and lazy. I hate to see that kind of “art” in Magic.

    Mechanically, it’s very nice. And I too am thankful she’s Kor and a Cleric, two currently underdog tribes.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Non-Legendary Creatures that you wished to be Commander/Legendary.
    Quote from Legend »


    Oooh yes. prince of thralls too

    Right!? They even sound legendary.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [Unofficial/Leak] Modern Horizons Buy-a-Box and Second Promo
    Quote from Algernone25 »

    The price is going to go up.
    ...
    30 would surprise me.

    Surprise! Smile
    (It took less than four hours.)
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Awakening of Vitu-Ghazi + Corpsejack Menace
    Vastwood Animist for 18 counters. 🙂

    Spam warning issued (posting only for strategy advice). -MadMage
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on April 2019 Banlist & Rules Updates
    Quote from cryogen »

    Quote from Legend »

    Because this specific one doesn’t hold to the declared criteria for banning. Why is this fact being completely ignored, even by the CAD apparently? Every argument in this thread leveled against wishes fails when held to the actual, official reasons for banning. It would make more sense to try out the wishes and then, if any are problematic, ban the offenders. But don’t preban them. The irony of Rule 13 and the apparent hypocrisy that led to it is why I said anything at all. I applaud others in this thread who have done such a superb job of countering emotional arguments with logic and explaining why wishes should be a relevant part of EDH.

    Well we have already established that the rules which define the format (exactly 100 different cards, color identity) only extend to the deck building phase. If you want wishes with no intervention then you have to concede that I can get any card that isn't banned. Doing this clearly violates the spirit of the deck building restrictions, unless you think that the RC should step in and make their own errata. Then we are back to the issue of needing a formal sideboard during sanctioned play, which must now be defined.

    Why is anyone acting like having wishes conform to the Commander format would be complicated and unwieldy? It’s so intuitive a caveman can understand it. Restating arguments made against wishing that have already been debunked in this thread doesn’t make them any more correct. Ignoring better arguments doesn’t make them incorrect. At this point, arguments against wishes in Commander are starting to seem more like false pretense rather than what I thought were false, worst-case-scenario assumptions (seen below).
    Quote from cryogen »

    If you want to argue the actual philosophy as it applies to wishes, then it would fall under creating undesirable game states when players spend five minutes digging through their collection for that silver bullet.

    I’m convinced that this is the Chicken Little argument that echoed in the ears of the CAD. It’s just as reasonable to assume that wishing will take about as long as tutoring. Should tutors be banned? Of course not. Imo, the CAD and people like us, will come to more productive conclusions if they assume the best about Commander players rather than the worst.

    Quote from Kamino_Taka »

    “100 cards" for me is already a sign that there are no sideboards in this format.

    As stated, there needn’t be a wishboard. Though most players using wishes would probably use the term anyways and even assemble them just to be efficient and respectful.

    Quote from Kamino_Taka »

    and apparently for the RC wishes arent mean't for commander.

    They’re meant for Magic as a whole, including Commander. Comparing wishes to cards (like Fractured Powerstone and Conspiracies) which have specific effects that were knowingly, deliberately created to work solely within their respective formats, is a false equivalency. The correct comparison for Planechase and Conspiracy/draft specific cards would be to Commander specific cards such as Command Tower. Wishes have nothing to do with this that debate and vice-versa.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on April 2019 Banlist & Rules Updates
    Quote from cryogen »

    You already accept a number of format specific rules which don't exist in any.other format, so why yet up in arms over this specific one?

    Because this specific one doesn’t hold to the declared criteria for banning. Why is this fact being completely ignored, even by the CAD apparently? Every argument in this thread leveled against wishes fails when held to the actual, official reasons for banning. It would make more sense to try out the wishes and then, if any are problematic, ban the offenders. But don’t preban them. The irony of Rule 13 and the apparent hypocrisy that led to it is why I said anything at all. I applaud others in this thread who have done such a superb job of countering emotional arguments with logic and explaining why wishes should be a relevant part of EDH.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on April 2019 Banlist & Rules Updates
    [quote from="Tibalt's Advocate »" url="/forums/the-game/commander-edh/809264-april-2019-banlist-rules-updates?comment=72"]The pro-wish group just doesn't want to be told no whenever they show up to a random group or LGS with wish cards and a sideboard for them; they want their view to be the norm and the current anti-wish ruling to be the unusual occurrence.

    I don’t even own a with card to play nor do I want one to play. What I want is for the rules of EDH to be as concise, coherent, and consistent as possible yet as unrestrictive as possible as well, whcih rule 13 does not achieve.

    Why should wishes be any different?

    Because they are different.
    Why should they be the same?
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on April 2019 Banlist & Rules Updates

    The card does what the card does, and when the card does something outside of the rules the card wins.

    Eh, not really. Dichotomancy or Battle of Wits are 100% unplayable and worthless as intended in EDH, exactly like a Burning Wish, and yet they are legal cards (simply because the ban list belong to cards that actively hurt the gameplay and are not simply "do-nothing" cards).

    101.1. Whenever a card's text directly contradicts these rules, the card takes precedence. The card overrides only the rule that applies to that specific situation. The only exception is that a player can concede the game at any time (see rule 104.3a).

    I'm sure everyone already knew that, but I quoted in anyways as a reminder.

    Unlike cards like Dichotomancy and Battle of Wits, wishes can work well in Commander whereas former cannot. The original spirit of the game was to breathe new life into cards that were effectively dead in binders and boxes, so that as many of them could be played as possible, not to ensure that every single card ever printed could be played.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on April 2019 Banlist & Rules Updates
    Quote from cryogen »
    Quote from JqlGirl »
    A question for everyone complaining about Rule 13 re: Wishes, etc.:
    Nothing functionally changed in the rule with this update, so why is everyone getting all argumentative about it now?

    Probably because they want wishes to work and this update showed that you guys discussed them and didnt reach a conclusion they liked.

    Correct. Personally, I've spoken up not so much to "argue" in the inflammatory sense, but to understand why the decision was made and to help the CAG understand that there's many of us who don't agree with the decision, who would also like to be heard and understood. The the CAG, being comprised of humans, isn't immune to error. I simply view their conclusion and resulting ruling as erroneous and will continue to do so until convinced otherwise or until they change the ruling to meet the spirit of EDH.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on April 2019 Banlist & Rules Updates

    Quote from Legend »

    [quote from="Hermes_ »" url="/forums/the-game/commander-edh/809264-april-2019-banlist-rules-updates?comment=39"]
    Your more than welcomed to do it in your local play group.

    People: “Refer to Rule 0 if you want to use wishes.”
    Me: “Refer to Rule 0 if you don’t want to use wishes.”

    So far not a convincing argument against wish effects actually working in Commander. Words like “floodgate” are just pessimistic conjecture, not reflective of any reality. Conjecture is all any of us, even the committee, have in this matter because wish effects haven’t even been given an official chance in Commander. I hope the committee will revisit the wishes sooner than later and work them meaningfully into the Commander paradigm.

    In the meantime, I’ve modified my original list of imaginary rules concerning wish effects.

    A player may wish for a card if:
    1. The card is owned by the controller of the wish effect.
    2. The card is legal in Commander. (Sorry Pikachu.)
    3. The card is outside of the game.
    4. The card is of the color identity of the deck.
    5. The card is sleeved to match those of the deck of the controller of the wish effect, if necessary.
    6. The card is not a duplicate of any card already in the deck of the controller of the wish effect, unless the deck can have any number of copies of that card.



    * Still doesn't address you having more cards "in game" after the resolution of the wish than is legally allowed.

    I can see how people could see this as going against the spirit of EDH. I hope those same people can see how making a particularly special group of cards ineffectual goes against the spirit of EDH, which was in large part created for the purpose of playing cards that were wasting away in boxes and binders.


    * Still doesn't address the potentially significant increase in time it will take to choose a card that meets your criteria (pulling out and searching a binder, etc)

    It’s true that this could be an issue, but we won’t know until we try. My personal prediction is that it would be identical to or even faster than searching a library.

    Quote from from=“CrimsonWings3689 »” url=“/forums/the-game/commander-edh/809264-april-2019-banlist-rules-updates?comment=50" »

    * It encourages people to run specific hate cards or answers they otherwise couldn't justify mainboard. This is a negative effect on deck construction. The last 1-15 cards are among the hardest to cut, and a necessary part of the deck building process.

    That’s a valid opinion. My opinion is that the ability to “wish” would have a positive effect on EDH as a whole as well as deck building because it allows players to play more of the cards they own. It may also provide “fair” decks some flexibility by providing answers the 100 can’t accommodate and/or even create a new archetype.


    * Adding these numerous rules for what amounts to 12 of 16k+ cards is excessive.

    These dozen cards with a sui generis effect have every right reason to be part of the game and are hence deserving of a short list of brief clarifications.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day: Barren Glory
    The art ...
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on What Was Your Favorite Block?
    Urza Block. It was the pinnacle and finale of Magic’s golden age.

    Tempest + Urza Standard = UNLIMITED POWER!
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on April 2019 Banlist & Rules Updates
    Quote from Impossible »

    I think it makes far more sense to simply outright ban any card that references "outside the game" (even if that means a little bit of collateral damage in the form of "oh no, now I can't play half of Karn, the Great Creator") than to relegate it to the last rule listed which some people may not even see because the only thing they check is if their cards are legal or not. Wishes are, for all intents and purposes, banned. Might as well list them as such.

    Agreed 100% though as a distant second to them just functioning as intended.
    Quote from Hermes_ »

    Your more than welcomed to do it in your local play group.

    People: “Refer to Rule 0 if you want to use wishes.”
    Me: “Refer to Rule 0 if you don’t want to use wishes.”

    So far not a convincing argument against wish effects actually working in Commander. Words like “floodgate” are just pessimistic conjecture, not reflective of any reality. Conjecture is all any of us, even the committee, have in this matter because wish effects haven’t even been given an official chance in Commander. I hope the committee will revisit the wishes sooner than later and work them meaningfully into the Commander paradigm.

    In the meantime, I’ve modified my original list of imaginary rules concerning wish effects.

    A player may wish for a card if:
    1. The card is owned by the controller of the wish effect.
    2. The card is legal in Commander. (Sorry Pikachu.)
    3. The card is outside of the game.
    4. The card is of the color identity of the deck.
    5. The card is sleeved to match those of the deck of the controller of the wish effect, if necessary.
    6. The card is not a duplicate of any card already in the deck of the controller of the wish effect, unless the deck can have any number of copies of that card.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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