The life gain cards (healer, heroes reunion) to counteract burn. sometimes no matter how well I play or draw, they burn me quicker than I can make tokens. Just a few cards to combat it. A second voice is probably out of the question, and to get the rest of the dual lands, I'd have to trade in the one voice I have. I don't have arbor elf in here because every time I'd draw it, I would have no forests. Dead draw. Everytime.
Well, the Guildgates and Vines seem like they would slow you down, allowing you to be tempo'ed out and subjecting you to more damage. Anyway, it seems like you are happy with the deck as it is and with your budget, so enjoy!
It does seem that with only 6 sources of B, you might often be unable to cast Putrefy, flashback LS or Willing, so you may want to add more Guildgates or Swamps or reduce those cards.
I strongly recommend adding a few more land, at least.
Create Token doesn't go on the stack until the Aura actually ETB. Not when it's cast. I know that sounds against common sense, but if the card says "when an Enchantment enters the battlefield" then that's how it works. The phrase "Enter the battlefield" has a very non-vague meaning.
So how it would really work is:
Aura goes on stack - > you choose a target - > aura resolves on target (if you kill the target here, it doesn't resolve) -> THEN the trigger to create a token comes into play, and you can put the aura on the token at that point because that's what it says
If you kill the target creature, the token trigger never triggers and it's a 2 for 1.
Okay, after taking many of the suggestions offered to mind (thanks!!!), here's an updated list...
Thanks all for the input!
Looks good!
Just a few comments:
Angel of Serenity needs WWW
Thragtusk is the only blink target for Restoration Angel. This creates situations where you waste the blink or hold up the Angel for too long. Consider Borderland Ranger or other blink target that can come out before Angel.
Consider Acidic Slime and Centaur Healer for the sideboard
Now that you have more tokens and less bounce targets, Cloudshift doesn't seem so good. Consider Rootborn Defenses.
Please refer to the post IMMEDIATELY above yours. Token creation triggers after the aura resolves. It doesn't trigger on cast, it triggers on entering the battlefield. Read the card.
The way I see it, you can do this any of three ways. They all add up to the same thing.
1. Simple version: ETB effects resolve before the card itself. The token is created before the aura resolves.
2. Common sense: Read the card. Look at the last sentence. Assume that Wizards has a purpose in putting that on the card. On the above quoted interpretation, the last sentence would have no point, so the interpretation is incorrect.
3: Technical interpretation: Aura goes on stack, Create token goes on stack, kill spell goes on stack (the order of these last two doesn't matter), kill spell resolves, token creation resolves, aura resolves with token as a legal target.
No, the Aura gets countered and never enters play since it no longer has a legal target.
"303.4g If an Aura is entering the battlefield and there is no legal object or player for it to enchant, the Aura remains in its current zone, unless that zone is the stack. In that case, the Aura is put into its owner's graveyard instead of entering the battlefield."
Since the token creation resolves before the aura, the token exists as a legal object and the aura can be attached according to the ruling above.
If the aura is Unflinching Courage and you wait for the aura to resolve before Doom Blading, your opponent does get 2 for (1+token)ed.
That doesn't make it a good card, but please think about what Wizards is trying to do here.
Thanks for the input! Actually, my deck list is not completely accurate (I was doing it from memory). I actually have two Gavony Townships in the list. I do like the idea of replacing the guildgates with basics.
You're welcome. Yeah, the Gavonys are great. There's also Wolfir Silverheart.
Which Garruk would you recommend? I don't have any to them, so I would have to pick them up. I'm leaning toward the M13 version, but he has a 2GGG cost, right?
Against weenie decks Relentless does removal, but the M13 does fantastic card draw (rancor a Thragtusk - draw 7!) and spews 3/3 tokens. I don't see anything that requires WW, so with the Pilgrims and the duals, you have 12 W sources. I don't see the need for more than a max of two Plains even after getting rid of the Guildgates. I think GGG would be doable if you wanted, particularly after Llanowar 3.0 arrives.
If you don't care about WW, I would still add 4 dorks and up the land count, but Arbor Elf or the new Llanowar could work.
I like:
T1-dork
T2-Lingering Souls
T3-Parallel Lives or Intangible Virtue+(Call or flashback Lingering Souls) or Advent
...
I think the Guildgates get in the way. W/out the Guildgates and basics, Vines would go. Vines going would mean more B sources needed.
Alive/Willing seems redundant w/Centaur Healer. I would figure out a mix of about 4 for the sideboard. I would get rid of the Heroes' Reunion also. You want to be winning on the ground (or air), not spending a card and a turn being beaten without helping win the battle.
Consider Selesnya Charm, Trostani, Scion of Vitu-Ghazi, Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage.
If you don't want advice, nice deck and good results. Congratulations! (stop reading now)
You want to drop the Parallel Lives before the token producers for obvious reasons. Ramp can help. 8 B sources seems risky. I would add 4 Avacyn's Pilgrim, pull all the Plains and add 2 Overgrown Tomb. Then you go from 16W, 15G, 8B to 16W, 17G, 10B with 11G T1 to cast dorks.
i could really see this being a thing with junk tokens and or jund agro and possibly aristocrats.
For Junk Tokens, it competes with Sorin, Advent, Garruk Relentless and just seems worse. I'd even prefer Parallel Lives, and that gets little respect. The BB is not workable either with the fixing we have now. Post rotation, unless we have something like Isolated Chapel and Woodland Cemetery, no way.
I agree that the Midnight Hauntings don't seem like the strongest cards. You must have considered that w/out any Forests you've got only 8 cards to cast the Pilgrim T1 and if Ghost Quartered, you lose a land.
I run Selesnya Charm, Defenses, one Guildmage, a Sorin and a Garruk Relentless main. The walkers can crank tokens and survive wipes. Garruk can be weenie removal. Seems like you really believe in the Devotions.
If you see any Liliana (Jund or Zombies), Loxodon Smiter is interesting sideboard. I have Deathrites, Tragic Slip (Falkenrath A.), Sundering Growth (Curse of Death's Hold, mirror, hexproof) and then some weird crap including Terminus, a Frontline Medic, a Golgari Charm (help w/blitz?) and a Druid's Deliverance (help w/blitz?) sideboard. I'm curious to see what you end up with.
I'm impressed. I doctored mine up immediately. What worked well of the miscellaneous one-ofs? The following are just some suggestions. There is a Junk Tokens thread in the competitive section also.
I am not competitive enough to post there, but I look over at the competitive side. As a married person once told me, "I can still look". There is a thread there that is too long to read in it's entirety. This is a recent list from one of the more successful pilots.
The preferred finishers seem to be Olivia and Aetherling where they focus on winning with Aetherling game 1, then diversify their threats G2-3. Most seem to think that Aetherling is much faster than mill.
[email]ryan.and.beard@gmail.com[/email] who posted above is competitive enough to post there, so I would pay attention to his advice.
Plus, if you play conscripts and cloudshift it, then you get to keep the permanent that you stole the first time as it's end of turn trigger isn't 'seen' because it's a new instance of the creature on the field. Can be absolutely backbreaking.
Are you sure of this? Some people seem to disagree:(.
Well, the Guildgates and Vines seem like they would slow you down, allowing you to be tempo'ed out and subjecting you to more damage. Anyway, it seems like you are happy with the deck as it is and with your budget, so enjoy!
It does seem that with only 6 sources of B, you might often be unable to cast Putrefy, flashback LS or Willing, so you may want to add more Guildgates or Swamps or reduce those cards.
I strongly recommend adding a few more land, at least.
Okay, got it. Apologies to all for my confusion.
Looks good!
Just a few comments:
Angel of Serenity needs WWW
Thragtusk is the only blink target for Restoration Angel. This creates situations where you waste the blink or hold up the Angel for too long. Consider Borderland Ranger or other blink target that can come out before Angel.
Consider Acidic Slime and Centaur Healer for the sideboard
Now that you have more tokens and less bounce targets, Cloudshift doesn't seem so good. Consider Rootborn Defenses.
HTH!
The way I see it, you can do this any of three ways. They all add up to the same thing.
1. Simple version: ETB effects resolve before the card itself. The token is created before the aura resolves.
2. Common sense: Read the card. Look at the last sentence. Assume that Wizards has a purpose in putting that on the card. On the above quoted interpretation, the last sentence would have no point, so the interpretation is incorrect.
3: Technical interpretation: Aura goes on stack, Create token goes on stack, kill spell goes on stack (the order of these last two doesn't matter), kill spell resolves, token creation resolves, aura resolves with token as a legal target.
Okay, now please show me what I did wrong.:)
Since the token creation resolves before the aura, the token exists as a legal object and the aura can be attached according to the ruling above.
If the aura is Unflinching Courage and you wait for the aura to resolve before Doom Blading, your opponent does get 2 for (1+token)ed.
That doesn't make it a good card, but please think about what Wizards is trying to do here.
You're welcome. Yeah, the Gavonys are great. There's also Wolfir Silverheart.
Against weenie decks Relentless does removal, but the M13 does fantastic card draw (rancor a Thragtusk - draw 7!) and spews 3/3 tokens. I don't see anything that requires WW, so with the Pilgrims and the duals, you have 12 W sources. I don't see the need for more than a max of two Plains even after getting rid of the Guildgates. I think GGG would be doable if you wanted, particularly after Llanowar 3.0 arrives.
How often does the Wayfaring Temple pay off for you? If not often, I would replace it with a Call of the Conclave (until you get the Voice?).
I would start with Overgrown Tombs and more Temple Gardens, then Godless Shrines, replacing Guildgates and Plains.
A key question is whether you want to support WW for Trostani or Scion of Vitu-Ghazi. If yes, then more Sunpetal Grove, Isolated Chapel and Woodland Cemetery join Avacyn's Pilgrim for at least 22 land and 4 dorks.
If you don't care about WW, I would still add 4 dorks and up the land count, but Arbor Elf or the new Llanowar could work.
I like:
T1-dork
T2-Lingering Souls
T3-Parallel Lives or Intangible Virtue+(Call or flashback Lingering Souls) or Advent
...
I think the Guildgates get in the way. W/out the Guildgates and basics, Vines would go. Vines going would mean more B sources needed.
Alive/Willing seems redundant w/Centaur Healer. I would figure out a mix of about 4 for the sideboard. I would get rid of the Heroes' Reunion also. You want to be winning on the ground (or air), not spending a card and a turn being beaten without helping win the battle.
Consider Selesnya Charm, Trostani, Scion of Vitu-Ghazi, Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage.
W/out more land, I would get rid of Trostani's Judgement. If you up the land count, I would get a Collective Blessing.
For decklists, hunt up the Junk Tokens thread in the Competitive/Established section (anybody can look).
Replace some guildgates and maybe plains w/forests - the Arbor Elf will like it plus speed.
Consider Garruk (3 flavors!), Collective Blessing and Acidic Slime (at least sideboard)
You want to drop the Parallel Lives before the token producers for obvious reasons. Ramp can help. 8 B sources seems risky. I would add 4 Avacyn's Pilgrim, pull all the Plains and add 2 Overgrown Tomb. Then you go from 16W, 15G, 8B to 16W, 17G, 10B with 11G T1 to cast dorks.
Good luck!
For Junk Tokens, it competes with Sorin, Advent, Garruk Relentless and just seems worse. I'd even prefer Parallel Lives, and that gets little respect. The BB is not workable either with the fixing we have now. Post rotation, unless we have something like Isolated Chapel and Woodland Cemetery, no way.
I run Selesnya Charm, Defenses, one Guildmage, a Sorin and a Garruk Relentless main. The walkers can crank tokens and survive wipes. Garruk can be weenie removal. Seems like you really believe in the Devotions.
If you see any Liliana (Jund or Zombies), Loxodon Smiter is interesting sideboard. I have Deathrites, Tragic Slip (Falkenrath A.), Sundering Growth (Curse of Death's Hold, mirror, hexproof) and then some weird crap including Terminus, a Frontline Medic, a Golgari Charm (help w/blitz?) and a Druid's Deliverance (help w/blitz?) sideboard. I'm curious to see what you end up with.
+4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
+1 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
+1 Lingering Souls
+3 Advent of the Wurm
+1 Scion of Vitu-Ghazi
-1 Geist-Honored Monk
-2 Doomed Traveler
-1 Wayfaring Temple
-1 Champion of Lambholt
-1 Odric
-1 Rancor
-1 Rootborn Defenses
-1 Selesnya Charm
-1 Wake the Reflections
Land:
-4 Evolving Wilds
+4 Overgrown Tomb
-4 Forests
-7 Plains
-1 Swamp
+4 Sunpetal Grove
+2 Gavony Township, Vault of the Archangel
+6 Isolated Chapel, Godless Shrine, Woodland Cemetery to give the best chance for GG, WW and B.
Garruk (either or both); Sorin, Lord of Innistrad; Voice of Resurgence depending on budget considerations.
The preferred finishers seem to be Olivia and Aetherling where they focus on winning with Aetherling game 1, then diversify their threats G2-3. Most seem to think that Aetherling is much faster than mill.
[email]ryan.and.beard@gmail.com[/email] who posted above is competitive enough to post there, so I would pay attention to his advice.
Are you sure of this? Some people seem to disagree:(.