All users will need to merge their MTGSalvation account with a new or existing Twitch account starting Sept 25th. You can merge your accounts by clicking here. Have questions? Learn more here.
Life's Legacy: Delving into Delver
All Sets Are Good: Prophecy
The Magic Market Index for Feb 9, 2018
  • posted a message on Dinosaur Tribal General Discussion
    Quote from xaltair »
    I can pre-evaluate cards before they become famous and played in popular decks.

    path of mettle is such a card, it is a mid-game card that is meant to be flipped on turns 6-9 and help to end the game or do the last few points of damage to the opp much like ramunap ruins was used. It's not meant to be flipped over on turns 3-5 unless you need to use the extra mana ability.

    Which brings me to the quoted text above, if you have a deck where most of your creatures are 1 drops or 2 drops it means that by the time you will get to cast path and flip it you will already have won the game, or you will not have any creatures on the board because you opp will have killed them. A 1/1 or 2/2 will simply not survive more than one turn, so if you draw path of turn 5-6 and want to cast it and flip you won't be able to because you won't have any creatures on the board to attack with, or maybe you'll have one only.

    Path was not meant to be played in an aggro deck, but in a "big red" or mid-range deck that can flip it any turn past turn 5, so having creatures that come down on turn 4 or 5 and can survive past turn 5-6 means that path will get flipped on those turns. That is the reason why this card works in a deck with Hazoret at 4 mana and Glorybringer at 5 mana and both of those cards can flip it.
    Do you have source information for this? Because the development information for this card found here says:
    This card was, in my opinion, the weirdest card in the set. It made sense from a flavor standpoint. The playtest name of this card was "Hallway of Traps," and you had to be quick and vigilant to get through the hallway. When you got to the top of the tower, you could shoot things down with the activated abilities. Despite the story the card was telling, the card looked super weird to me. I built a lot of decks with this card and actually found it to be versatile. I had to choose carefully what creatures I would put in my decks, and sometimes the triggered ability on the front half wouldn't do anything, but after it flipped (which was surprisingly easy), I had a mode that was strong against aggro decks and a mode that was strong against control decks. The real world has had success in building decks with this card, which is always a good feeling for the person who did the most playtesting and iteration on it.

    Further, the information for Relentless Raptor says:
    Not all Dinosaurs are big and expensive. This card was aimed at an aggressive deck with a low curve, but with its 3/3 body it still had a Dinosaur feel to it. It plays particularly well with Path of Mettle.

    My reading of this doesn't seem to support your contention that it is not meant to be used in aggro decks. Without source documentation, stating your interpretation so definitively also doesn't seem helpful.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • posted a message on RG Monsters/Aggro
    I've ordered the last few cards and even have a budget concession in my list (3 Phoenix). I looked at decklists and played most of the cards in my Jund list, but you know more than I do.

    Brennan's list looks extremely solid to me. The explore creatures don't ramp, per se, but should improve the land count and fixing marginally.

    My substitution of Evolving Wilds and Arch of Orazca is not something I would recommend for a PPTQ. Rishkar seems worth consideration. If you do go with this, I would love to hear how it goes. I should get some testing in this weekend, and I expect to run my version on Monday Standard.

    The card I wonder about most is Hour of Devastation. When does it come in?
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • posted a message on GBx Constrictor
    Also mid-range decks that want to grind like Grixis.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on GBx Constrictor
    Vraska is quite good in a reasonable number of situations. Nissa, Vital Force is less versatile, but spicy. You already have Bestiaries, which I swear by.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on RG Monsters/Aggro
    In my greedy pursuit of playing all the powerful new cards, I focused on Jadelight Ranger and Rekindling Phoenix. My first attempt was Jund, but I couldn't make the mana work. Then, perusing successful decks on mtggoldfish, I noticed some that could work for me, using Explore to dump Eternalize creatures for virtual card advantage. Me gusto!

    Do these count as "stompy" decks? Please chime in to give feedback, ask questions, educate my use of MTG vocabulary or just celebrate smashing face.

    I chose Jon Dieter's list to make worse as follows:
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • posted a message on Grixis Midrange/Energy
    It seems to be a one-of in the sideboard of some of these decks. I've been happy with it in the past in my 4-color concoctions. I wonder whether Angrath is better because he's cheaper. Flipping a counterspell or off the top isn't the greatest. But a Carnage Tyrant would be cool.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on Jund Midrange
    I took a version out on Monday night. I had copied the manabase from an MTGO 5-0 list. It had 26 lands.

    It did okay. Loss partially due to punting to Merfolk, draw with Approach, win in hand against a brew that I conceded so opponent had a chance to prize, bye.

    I wasn't happy with the mana, though. I was being stupidly greedy, trying to run Jadelight, Phoenix and Vraska's Contempt. Last night I sat down and tried to fix the mana. No bueno. Even when I replaced Vraska's Contempt with Hour of Glory, I wasn't satisfied. Ultimately, I decided that Jadelight, Phoenix and the B splash was not where I wanted to be. I was on 26 lands and looking at 10+ always CIPT with Foul Orchard. I'm off it unless I see a better idea for the mana or Dominaria provides better unfriendly fixing. The latest MTGO 5-0s have some GR with Jadelight, Phoenix and eternalize creatures to dump with explore that I plan to try in hopes of synergizing Jadelight, Explore and Phoenix.

    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • posted a message on GBx Constrictor
    Sultai Constrictor sighting! 3 Hadana's Climb, 3 Cartouche of Knowledge, 0 The Scarab God
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on GBx Constrictor
    Quote from A_E_I_Own_U »
    Quote from Ven0msRage »
    Hello. Have you considered running Gifted Aetherborn? I'm currently running Sultai, but if I was just G/B I would probably have access to them at least in the sideboard. Other than that, I've some success testing Kitesail Freebooter as well. My LGS is all over the place, Control, Aggro, Cats and Ramp.

    I dont have trouble with aggro. I have like 16 2 drops so it usually never gets outta hand.
    If it's the more controlling strategies that are giving you trouble, I recommend up to 2 Lifecrafter's Bestiary for the sideboard. I didn't see any in your most recently posted list. Do remember your free scries (I always forget when I haven't played the card for a while).

    Heroic Intervention is obviously good against Sweltering Suns, but useless against Yahenni's Expertise. Not to mention that we tap out to build a board, so holding up 2 mana for a reactive spell can be unfeasible.

    Splashing U for Spell Pierce and/or Negate seems like a bigger change than you want.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on R/x Aggro
    Quote from xaltair »
    In my opinion R/W is the better version as of right now, if you are indeed playing the dino version of this deck instead of the 1 drop haste version of the deck.

    This is my R/W build:
    This deck is not as explosive as the 1 mana casting cost dorks deck or as a mono-red deck but after turn 2-3 once it gets going it is very difficult to stop. The flying dinos hit often because usually people don't have their own flying creatures to block, and I can take care of opposing creatures with burn spells, or they may come into play tapped due to Kinjalli's sunwing and can't block that turn anyways.

    The deck can flip path with hazoret, aether chaser or relentless raptor but it is not in a hurry to do that early game and just likes to beat with the flyers. Forerunner of the empire gets me more dinos, a cheap one or an expensive one and helps to ping other creatures, it also makes a good combo with huatli who can make a dino every turn for free.

    The sideboard is all over the place but basically against token decks I would put in the two sweltering suns and ixalan's binding and maybe forsake the worldly for their enchantments. Against other aggro red decks I would put in chandra's defeat and aetherspehere harvesters. Against control decks I would put in the 2 vehicles as well as Insult//Injury.

    Anyways, let me know what you think about this different R/W path built or even try it out for yourself, you may be pleasantly surprised at how good it is.

    I like the deck and appreciate your desire to share it.
    Quote from JimmySea »
    Quote from xaltair »
    In my opinion R/W is the better version as of right now, if you are indeed playing the dino version of this deck instead of the 1 drop haste version of the deck.

    While I think this list is interesting, I don't think it can be counted as an Aggro list. With five cards above CMC4, three at CMC4 (that aren't Chandra or Hazoret) and no burn that can go to the face, I think you're playing for a very different kind of game.

    I see two points:
    • Not aggro for CMC reasons
    • Different deck because different cards and no burn
    Quote from xaltair »
    Quote from JimmySea »


    Are you saying that an "aggro" deck must have burn spells that go to the face? So, mono green elves, green/blue merfolk and mono black zombies are not aggro decks then? Because none of those decks run burn spells obviously.

    This deck is aggro because it is running 24 creatures, and 11 of those creatures are two drops, 4 of them are three drops so that by turn 4 you will be almost guaranteed to have 2 or even 3 creatures out.
    Also most of the creatures count as unblockable for the opponent because Sky Terror is flying and also has menace so it's almost unblockable for all intents and purposes, and if you drop a Kinjalli's sunwing on turn 3 then every creature the opp casts after will come into play tapped, so he can't block with it for one turn.

    Both those creatures are must kills by the opp if not they will take over the game very fast and beat him down due to their flying ability. The reason the deck doesn't run burn is because it wants to win with creatures, the burn spells are there to take out opposing creatures, if the opp even has any that can block fliers so early in the game, or to kill his creatures so that we can attack every turn and not worry about blocking with our guys, this deck doesn't like to block, that's why it's an AGGRO deck.

    If you think that the deck doesn't need the 2 Planeswalkers or the bigger dinos then feel free to exchange them with burn spells instead that go to the face, this is just one version of the deck that I designed and like to play.

    By focusing on only one aspect (lack of burn to the face) of multiple points in JimmySea's post, aren't you constructing a straw man argument? Is that "constructive" or "nice and respectful" as called for in the General Forum Rules?
    Quote from kodieyost »
    You’re getting a little aggressive here, calm down.

    To most people who have been playing this game for a long time, the list looks like Midrange — it has expensive spells to cast, it has inefficient attackers (ranging raptors? Forerunner?), and it’s lacking a way to force through early attackers (that’s what burn spells, kill spells, and bounce spells are for — all of which are found in most fast aggro decks like zombies and merfolk)

    This probably belongs in a dinosaur threat, there’s a general tribal discussion thread already that would love the input.

    Quote from Nevelo »
    The deck differs substantially from competitive shells. It only overlaps with 3 cards. It would likely get better feedback in its own Big Red Dino thread.

    Quote from xaltair »
    Quote from kodieyost »

    So explaining that a deck running 11 two drops is an aggro deck is aggressive to you? I don't even know what to say in response to your comments, forcing through early attackers? Did you not read my previous comment about using flyers to get through, and yes there are burn spells and kill spells in the deck, that's what magma spray, cut and abrade are there for.

    How do you find burn spells in merfolk and zombies? Are you out of your mind or out of your league, do you even know what burn spells means?

    This deck is a Red/White aggro deck and it belongs in the R/x thread where it is right now, not sure why having dinos in the deck makes it a tribal deck, if you take out the Forerunners and replace them with other aggro creatures or burn spells then it pretty much ceases to be a tribal deck altogether.

    Instead of bitching about people's decks that try to innovate maybe you should try coming up with a different version of R/x decks and show us something that we haven't seen before, eh? I've been playing the game since 1996 so I'm pretty sure I know what aggro means as for what you consider midrange, I have no idea whatsoever.

    This thread is for proven Rx Aggro, not decks that "innovate", are a "different version of R/x decks" or "show us something that we haven't seen before." Per the Proven (Standard) Forum Rules, anti-competitive discussion is prohibited. This looks to me to be very close to anti-competitive discussion. You seem to agree that your deck is a significantly different shell, why must it fit in this "Proven" thread? Your deck is interesting and may be great, why not put it elsewhere until it can earn "Proven" status?
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on GBx Constrictor
    Has anyone experimented with splashing red in this archetype?

    I'm curious to try it out because I'd love to have access to cards like Angrath, the Flame-Chained and Glorybringer, even if just from the SB. I also think that the cycling lands (Canyon Slough / Sheltered Thicket) may add some extra value to explore w/ card draw, and the mana base may not be FUBAR thanks to these + Rootbound Crags.
    Rhazzercom apparently tried this before the latest bannings. It looked interesting, but I never heard how it went. I haven't heard of people doing well with it. I have splashed R for answers to Glorybringer, but the best R cards (Chandra, Rekindling Phoenix, Glorybringer) have demanding color requirements and don't really synergize.

    So, I'm not aware of successful experiments and would love to see what you come up with.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on Rakdos Aggro Pirates
    @6655321 - I like your take. If you want some suggestions, I could offer a few.
    • I love The Immortal Sun, but not in a 21 land, no ramp deck.
    • Similarly, Vanquisher's Banner threatens to be a virtual mulligan despite help from Captain Lannery Storm.
    • I prefer Ruin Raider for card advantage
    • Vraska's Contempt may also have issues with being castable.

    I look forward to hearing how it works, particularly Lannery Storm.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • posted a message on Grixis Midrange/Energy

    Grixis Midrange

    This thread covers Grixis Midrange and Energy decks. This archetype builds around powerful and card advantageous creatures and spells. Note that this thread is for a midrange deck. There are decks that have ~5 creatures that are called Grixis Energy, which I consider Grixis Control and should be discussed in our UBx Control thread. Decklists that this thread applies to would more likely have over 10 to 20+ creatures.

    After the bannings targeting Temur Energy and Ramunap Red, these decks built on some remaining energy cards and other powerful spells and creatures to be competitive in the new meta. Without a Standard Pro Tour to establish the meta, it is hard to discern the relative strengths of these decks. But Brennan Decandio took a version to second place in the first SCG Open (Team Constructed) and they have been placing in other tournaments, so it is clear that these decks are a strong competitive choice.

    This is a new archetype, so try this if:
    • You like powerful creatures and spells in a very competitive shell with lots of card advantage.
    • You like being somewhat creative and enjoy choosing from a superabundance of quality cards.
    • You can live with your greedy manabase killing you occasionally.

    Bold indicates core cards.
    Walking Ballista: Pro - can snipe other creatures, can go to dome, can hit planeswalkers, grows by itself; Con - under the curve by itself, expensive activated ability. Possible, but never seen in this archetype.

    1 Drop

    2 Drop
    Dusk Legion Zealot: Pro - Cantrip, chan even chump and save life; Con - unimpressive body. Seen in some versions
    Gifted Aetherborn: Pro - lifelink, deathtouch, cheap, just wins races if not removed; Con - hard to cast T2.
    Glint-Sleeve Siphoner: Pro - card advantage; Con - fragile. One of the biggest draws to an energy build. Play 4
    Kitesail Freebooter: disruption stapled onto an evasive body, but not much of a body.
    Scrapheap Scrounger: Pro - hits hard, can be recurred; Con - doesn't block.
    Shielded Aether Thief: Pro - Defends, can produce energy and even draw cards if it survives against an aggressive deck; Con - conditional, can't win the game.

    3 Drop
    Champion of Wits: Pro - card selection, then later card advantage; Con - kind of a durdle at 3.
    Whirler Virtuoso: Pro - great staller, thopters can even get in some chip damage; Con - not offensive, with less energy, fewer thopters.

    4 Drop
    Gonti, Lord of Luxury: Pro - card advantage; Con - slow, in control matchups, the body can be irrelevant.
    Hostage Taker - Not particularly synergistic and slow, but so much card advantage! Real wants protection.
    Ravenous Chupacabra: Just good value!
    Rekindling Phoenix - Evasive, resilient, powerful, matches up really well with Glorybringer

    5 Drop
    Glorybringer: Pro - haste, evasion, removal on a stick; Con - Heart of Kiran, Fumigate, Rekindling Phoenix.
    The Scarab God: Midrange mirror breaker, resilient but slow, can take over. One of the main reasons to play this archetype, but not necessarily a 4-of.

    6 Drop
    Noxious Gearhulk: Pro - Card advantage, lifegain, two types for Delirium, menace makes it hard to block; Con - expensive, undersized, vulnerable to artifact removal, probably obsolete with the printing of Ravenous Chupacabra.
    Torrential Gearhulk Solid value in limited numbers
    Battle at the Bridge: Exiling removal with lifegain! But expensive and sorcery speed. maybe an answer for Hazoret, but yuk.
    Fatal Push: Pro - efficient removal; Con - not good against control or 5+ drops, revolt is not necessarily easy to achieve with this deck which makes it hard to hit 3-4 drops.
    Harnessed Lightning - With Hub and Attune, an energy build can easily splash red, and play this. Given enough energy, able to kill large creatures.
    Abrade: Pro - Efficient removal for small creatures at instant speed that also hits artfacts like God Pharaoh's Gift and Heart of Kiran; Con - 4 toughness creatures, can't go to dome or planeswalkers.
    Cut // Ribbons: Pro - hit up to four toughness creatures, Fireball later; Con - sorcery speed.
    Harnessed Lightning: Pro - instant speed, can hit creatures of arbitrary size given energy; Con - can't hit dome or planeswalkers, energy may not be available.
    Hour of Glory: Strong, slow removal. Exiles!
    Never // Return: Pro - sorcery helps Delirium, hits Planeswalkers, Return can be useful for a body and to get rid of Scrapheap Scrounger or Dread Wanderer; Con - expensive, hard to cast.
    Vraska's Contempt - powerful, versatile and expensive
    Walk the Plank - efficient, but a sorcery

    Draw, Tutor, Scry
    Arguel's Blood Fast - drawing cards is good, right?
    Search for Azcanta - Powerful in the late game, but do we have enough targets?
    Vance's Blasting Cannon - Seems powerful, but exile three lands in a row

    Anti-Interaction (there has got to be a better name for this category!)
    Negate: counters sweepers, removal, draw, enchantments, artifacts, planeswalkers. Good catchall against noncreature decks
    Spell Pierce: An uptempo Negate, hard to play around

    Duress: strong anti-control card, can get under countermagic or provide information before a potentially risky move.
    Harsh Scrutiny: Pro - cheap, scry; Con - specialized toward decks that we generally do well against anyway.
    Lay Bare the Heart: Pro - gets rid of many things you really care about, can clear path or draw counter to let you resolve what you really want to; Con - can be a bad topdeck. Often in sideboards to bring in against control and combo.
    Dispossess: Pro - can hit all copies of Marvel or Torrential Gearhulk, whether in hand or not; Con - Only hits artifacts. Tempo hit. Card disadvantage if they don't have any in hand. Can be awful to draw in multiples.
    Lost Legacy: Pro - can hit all copies, whether in hand or not; Con - Not hitting artifacts is a big drawback as you really want to be able to name Torrential Gearhulk. Tempo hit. Card disadvantage if they don't have any in hand.

    Specialized Hate
    Sorcerous Spyglass: potential hate that shows opponent's hand, could be powerful

    Misc Artifacts
    Aethersphere Harvester: Pro - Lifelink, Evasion, big butt, can't be targeted by unrevolted Push;Con - Requires another creature to crew.

    Golden Demise
    Yahenni's Expertise: Pro - Efficient; Con - not particularly useful against current Tier 1 decks.
    Hour of Devastation: Pro - deals with indestructible, up to 5 toughness, planeswalkers; Con - .

    Chandra, Torch of Defiance: Pro - fantastic; Con - Glorybringer, Heart of Kiran
    Liliana, Death's Majesty: Pro - powerful, can help with delirium; Con - Expensive, Heart of Kiran, Glorybringer, Disallow.
    Angrath, the Flame-Chained: Pro - Card advantage can hurt control decks; Con - expensive
    Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh: Pro - powerful; Con - slow.
    Aether Hub: Pro - Energy, fixing; Con - inconsistent color source.
    Canyon Slough: Pro - Fixing, helps Dragonskull Summit and Drowned Catacomb, can mitigate flood; Con - always tapped.
    Dragonskull Summit: Pro - Great fixing late; Con - needs typed land on battlefield to be untapped.
    Drowned Catacomb: Pro - Great fixing early; Con - not great topdecked.
    Evolving Wilds: Pro - Allows better Pushes, improves fixing; Con - comes into play tapped.
    Field of Ruins
    Fetid Heath: Pro - Fixing, helps Dragonskull Summit and Drowned Catacomb, can mitigate flood; Con - always tapped.
    Highland Lake: Always tapped, but what are we doing on turn 1 anyway? Pray for good enemy color duals in Dominaria.
    Spirebluff Canal: Pro - Great fixing early; Con - not great topdecked.



    Articles, Videos, Etc.
    Posted in: Proven (Standard)
  • posted a message on Dinosaur Tribal General Discussion
    I tweaked an MTGO 5-0 deck to become this. I've run 3-1 with it, so it seems better than I suspected. I've beaten a GB Midrange deck with Tetzimoc, Temur Monsters and an energy brew, while losing to WB vampires. I don't feel that my draws were good against Vampires, but whatever my luck, I got hosed by Dusk twice in game 2.

    I am tempted to replace the W splash with U for permission, but Heroic Intervention could also work.

    I don't think it's the most competitive version, but if you want to go off sometimes with some awesome dinos at an FNM, it's a shell worth considering.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • posted a message on Best Shell for Polyraptor
    I shoehorned a Polyraptor into an MTGO 5-0 deck to become this as I suggested above. It hasn't been crazy good, but it's been fine. There's a mini-report in the main dinosaur thread, if anybody is interested.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Standard)
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.