What is dangerous about Sad Sac is that if you neuter someones deck, 99% of the time it results in them scooping/being pissed OR (and this is worse) staying in the game with the explicit purpose of ensuring that you do not win.
That is what is dangerous about this card, you can take someone out of the game, while leaving them in it.
In 1 v 1 an undeniable nuke to your opponents deck when kicked.
Triplets get hated on, repeatedly casting cards from your opponents hands paints a big fat target on your face. You can bet that if you even once use someone's path/sword on one of their own creatures it will not be quickly forgotten. Whereas if you remove their threat once it is on the board with your own removal this is something that is common place and there is usually little grudge. If you want to see what I mean just run Telepathy, less experienced players will often just target you for making them "feel" so exposed, that card resulted in me getting hated on, and the triplets are an even more extreme version. Tread with caution.
Really good stuff, thanks for the post. Chainer does like to use creatures to eliminate your opponnents creatures, as you stated, imo I feel Fleshbag Marauder is better than bone shredder as he is basically shriekmaw, Massacre Wurm is just a boss, and to a lesser degree Big Game Hunter and Abyssal Gatekeeper do pretty good as well. I too cut Shriekmaw early on, he sat in my hand far too long too many times. This also naturally led to a cut of doom blade, meh.
I agree with you about card names by the way, flavor is very important. And Murder is just a beautiful card in every way except for costing 1 more than Go for the Throat. And thanks for your reminder of winding canyons, I sort of got spoiled on Alchemist's Refuge in my Damia and sort of forgot about that card, definately going to run it.
And in regards to your response with haste I can see why you feel that way, within my deck there is a bit more emphasis on equipment so for me haste is more important, I am always trying to get something huge through.
And as awesome as I think Geth, Lord of the Vault is I have found that chainer is the only one I need to pull things from graveyards...when I see chainer lists with Animate Dead, and Reanimate and the like, I feel it is sort of redundant, removal can be run in those slots, eliminating threats and giving chainer more targets.
I really enjoy 1 v 1 and tend to run my chainer the most when playing in those games, that being the case I really like all the good black removal from sac effects/target/to wipe, coupled with the creature removal above. My deck really excells vs. aggro, though can struggle against combo or graveyard/tudor hate. I recently put Sadistic Sacrament back in my deck to help deal with annoying yosei locks/I win combos, though honestly sort of detest the card as it puts my opponents in such a negative state...I try to be somewhat sensitive to such things. Especially when I top deck it and it is my only option and I have the manna to kick it, this card really puts people off in a way like few other cards do. Open to considering alternatives that address artifacts/enchanments/combo once on the board....sort of tough in chainer, karn liberated and the uber slow non abusible in chainer spine of ish sah, only options?
And your Balthor shenanigans sound really good, he is not run whatsoever in my meta and I plan to give him a whirl, I am sure he will do just awesome.
I have another question for you, I can see the synergy w/ blood artist and any form of wipe when there are a somewhat large amount of total creatures out, and being just bonkers against token decks. However, what has been your form of win con against a board that does not have allot of creatures? Just the natural stats of creatures? That is another reason why I recommend a card like Lashwrithe and the somewhat jank quietus spike, if your best win con is contigent on allot of creatures on the board I would think that late game you would like to simply make something huge? Also, I can not give enough credit to Exsanguinate, early mid game I can lay down some good beats, and late game when things have been wiped and I am behind on board presence, I can simply zap my opponent for the remaining 10-20 dmg for the win. That card can really help finish.
I really like your list, and detailed in game feedback, very nice.
The only card I am sort of not liking is Dread, especially considering he shuffles back in when he dies. Has he been good for you? Personnaly I prefer No Mercy, it comes down earlier and tends to stay on the board longer than a creature.
Also, how do you fare running so little removal? In multiplayer I could see you riding other peoples wrath effects, though in 1 v 1 I imagine this deck could struggle against aggro...?
Also, have you considered mindcrank or Lashwrithe? The crank is really cheap to throw down, and just keeps working for you with no additional cost, it has done really well in my chainer. In multiplayer it can lead to a supermarket of creatures to choose from. And I like Lashwrithe because it often results in my 5/5's and 6/6's becoming closer to 15/15-20+, add in Necropolis Regent and if your force goes unanswered it shouldn't be long before you win. Reaper From the Abyss has done really well with chainer as well, having him out and any sacing shennanigans (grave pact/butcher) is awesome, they sac a creature of their choice and you nail their biggest threat.
Also why no haste enablers? As you know chainer can assemble a potent force within a single turn, staples like Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot boots help to turn up the heat for the swing, or help you protect chainer from targeted removal (which sucks when everything else gets exiled). I am debating running Akroma's Memorial for more haste and all the other good stuff, granted it is slow.
Again thanks for your detailed info, I had not considered the blood artist/falkenrath noble shenanigans, sounds pretty good!
I agree that with Prime Time being banned Consecrated Sphinx is now the #1 6 drop in EDH (IMO). So it is natural that he is of focus here, and it is a natural argument to say, "well what about the Sphinx? The format is now going to be warped around him."
The sphinx is and was always a good bribery/clone/reanimate/steal target, that has not changed. The difference is that with Prime Time you could grab any 2 lands out of your deck, IMMEDIATELY ramping your board towards your win cons, and/or getting the two very best lands for where you were at at that particular moment in the game....about to drop a blue suns zenith? Grab a reliquary tower. Opponenets beat stick online? maze. Mid game and want to simply explode your manna base? Coffers/Urborg....Not only did prime time ramp you, he enabled you to tutor utility lands to suit the current board state. This is ridiculously powerful, and why so many people played him, and played in response to him. To both be able to ramp, get closer to win con, and custom tailor your manna base in response to the current board is just huge. This is why so many games played so similarly for so long now......he was just that good.
The sphinx on the other hand draws you cards. Granted drawing cards is undeinably good it can be random. You can hit 2 basics off your first draw with him, after you have already established your manna. Granted this is good because you have dug through a manna pocket when you don't need it, though it does not improve your immediate board state. Your next draw of two you could hit sakura tribe elder and a rampant growth....again, not relevant. Even though the card draw with the sphinx is always good, and gets you closer to the cards you do need, it can yield cards that are not good at that very moment. In effect, without assisted draw (top, ponder etc), consecrated draw is and always will be random, whereas PT is a tutor.
Hitting 2 choice lands and possibly more every time he swings is ALWAYS good, no debate. There is the possiblity with the Sphinx that your draw is not going to be exactly what you need. Random (sphinx) vs. Always (PT).
Personally, I believe you can't even compare the two cards.
Whoa equilibrium with omniscience is just awesome with cip, clones. I knew about shard/eratic portal shenanigans, though this is better, and about as good as cloudstone curio. Thanks for sharing that, definately going to test it out.
I have considered those cards, as well as bottled cloister, though the drawbacks keep me away from running them. I prefer to ramp, then draw X at instant speed.
Damia is my main deck and I am speaking from experience, Omniscience + Damia, if properly executed is absolutely bonkers and will have your opponents royaly pissed. This card draws allot of hate in my meta as they see it as a card that takes no skill to play....though it does take a proper execution to drop it, protect it, and win with it in the same turn.
There is no sense in casting omniscience for 10, playing a few spells for free then passing turn. Your omniscience will either get removed and/or you will get ganged up on as this enchantment brings the fear. If the above describes how omniscience functions in your deck you are better off time stretching for the same cost.
If you plan to run omnisicience its a good idea to run some graveyard recurssion...in blue Mnemonic wall, archeomancer, dead eye navigator can really help you execute your end game....in green recollect, ewitness, regrowth are really good with omniscience as well....omniscience likes tutors if you are in black. Casting the cards in your hand for free, then recurring and recasting cards from your graveyard for free can be devastating, having a board state that recurs interactions between your graveyard/board/hand with omniscience is IMO the way to play it.
Again speaking from experience people will not want to play with you if you consitently use infinite turns to win. I have found that you can assemble win con, and take minimal extra turns to finish in a way that does not leave your opponents feeling abused. Though if you are playing that rather douchey player that has it coming you can drop the avalanche.
As I can understand the dismay felt by many, seeing Prime Time go, from my perspective, is healthy for the format.
Prime Time was awesome and helped me win allot of games, though I have long since tired of every game I played G, or one of my opponents played G, the game would always become, "chase the Prime Time".
Clone/Reanimate/Bribery/Tutor effects ALWAYS revolved around him.
Furthermore, mono decks outside of U or B, in my meta have become non existent. Prime Time focused mana accelleration strategies absolutely dominate, and if you are not ramping you are most likely just going to loose.
Already the response within my meta has been generally favorable, even coming from those who used/abused/reused him quite regularly.
He was stagnating our format, and my meta, RIP PT.
That is what is dangerous about this card, you can take someone out of the game, while leaving them in it.
In 1 v 1 an undeniable nuke to your opponents deck when kicked.
Her ability can be undeniably strong though.
I agree with you about card names by the way, flavor is very important. And Murder is just a beautiful card in every way except for costing 1 more than Go for the Throat. And thanks for your reminder of winding canyons, I sort of got spoiled on Alchemist's Refuge in my Damia and sort of forgot about that card, definately going to run it.
And in regards to your response with haste I can see why you feel that way, within my deck there is a bit more emphasis on equipment so for me haste is more important, I am always trying to get something huge through.
And as awesome as I think Geth, Lord of the Vault is I have found that chainer is the only one I need to pull things from graveyards...when I see chainer lists with Animate Dead, and Reanimate and the like, I feel it is sort of redundant, removal can be run in those slots, eliminating threats and giving chainer more targets.
I really enjoy 1 v 1 and tend to run my chainer the most when playing in those games, that being the case I really like all the good black removal from sac effects/target/to wipe, coupled with the creature removal above. My deck really excells vs. aggro, though can struggle against combo or graveyard/tudor hate. I recently put Sadistic Sacrament back in my deck to help deal with annoying yosei locks/I win combos, though honestly sort of detest the card as it puts my opponents in such a negative state...I try to be somewhat sensitive to such things. Especially when I top deck it and it is my only option and I have the manna to kick it, this card really puts people off in a way like few other cards do. Open to considering alternatives that address artifacts/enchanments/combo once on the board....sort of tough in chainer, karn liberated and the uber slow non abusible in chainer spine of ish sah, only options?
And your Balthor shenanigans sound really good, he is not run whatsoever in my meta and I plan to give him a whirl, I am sure he will do just awesome.
I have another question for you, I can see the synergy w/ blood artist and any form of wipe when there are a somewhat large amount of total creatures out, and being just bonkers against token decks. However, what has been your form of win con against a board that does not have allot of creatures? Just the natural stats of creatures? That is another reason why I recommend a card like Lashwrithe and the somewhat jank quietus spike, if your best win con is contigent on allot of creatures on the board I would think that late game you would like to simply make something huge? Also, I can not give enough credit to Exsanguinate, early mid game I can lay down some good beats, and late game when things have been wiped and I am behind on board presence, I can simply zap my opponent for the remaining 10-20 dmg for the win. That card can really help finish.
The only card I am sort of not liking is Dread, especially considering he shuffles back in when he dies. Has he been good for you? Personnaly I prefer No Mercy, it comes down earlier and tends to stay on the board longer than a creature.
Also, how do you fare running so little removal? In multiplayer I could see you riding other peoples wrath effects, though in 1 v 1 I imagine this deck could struggle against aggro...?
Also, have you considered mindcrank or Lashwrithe? The crank is really cheap to throw down, and just keeps working for you with no additional cost, it has done really well in my chainer. In multiplayer it can lead to a supermarket of creatures to choose from. And I like Lashwrithe because it often results in my 5/5's and 6/6's becoming closer to 15/15-20+, add in Necropolis Regent and if your force goes unanswered it shouldn't be long before you win. Reaper From the Abyss has done really well with chainer as well, having him out and any sacing shennanigans (grave pact/butcher) is awesome, they sac a creature of their choice and you nail their biggest threat.
Also why no haste enablers? As you know chainer can assemble a potent force within a single turn, staples like Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot boots help to turn up the heat for the swing, or help you protect chainer from targeted removal (which sucks when everything else gets exiled). I am debating running Akroma's Memorial for more haste and all the other good stuff, granted it is slow.
Again thanks for your detailed info, I had not considered the blood artist/falkenrath noble shenanigans, sounds pretty good!
The sphinx is and was always a good bribery/clone/reanimate/steal target, that has not changed. The difference is that with Prime Time you could grab any 2 lands out of your deck, IMMEDIATELY ramping your board towards your win cons, and/or getting the two very best lands for where you were at at that particular moment in the game....about to drop a blue suns zenith? Grab a reliquary tower. Opponenets beat stick online? maze. Mid game and want to simply explode your manna base? Coffers/Urborg....Not only did prime time ramp you, he enabled you to tutor utility lands to suit the current board state. This is ridiculously powerful, and why so many people played him, and played in response to him. To both be able to ramp, get closer to win con, and custom tailor your manna base in response to the current board is just huge. This is why so many games played so similarly for so long now......he was just that good.
The sphinx on the other hand draws you cards. Granted drawing cards is undeinably good it can be random. You can hit 2 basics off your first draw with him, after you have already established your manna. Granted this is good because you have dug through a manna pocket when you don't need it, though it does not improve your immediate board state. Your next draw of two you could hit sakura tribe elder and a rampant growth....again, not relevant. Even though the card draw with the sphinx is always good, and gets you closer to the cards you do need, it can yield cards that are not good at that very moment. In effect, without assisted draw (top, ponder etc), consecrated draw is and always will be random, whereas PT is a tutor.
Hitting 2 choice lands and possibly more every time he swings is ALWAYS good, no debate. There is the possiblity with the Sphinx that your draw is not going to be exactly what you need. Random (sphinx) vs. Always (PT).
Personally, I believe you can't even compare the two cards.
I have considered those cards, as well as bottled cloister, though the drawbacks keep me away from running them. I prefer to ramp, then draw X at instant speed.
There is no sense in casting omniscience for 10, playing a few spells for free then passing turn. Your omniscience will either get removed and/or you will get ganged up on as this enchantment brings the fear. If the above describes how omniscience functions in your deck you are better off time stretching for the same cost.
If you plan to run omnisicience its a good idea to run some graveyard recurssion...in blue Mnemonic wall, archeomancer, dead eye navigator can really help you execute your end game....in green recollect, ewitness, regrowth are really good with omniscience as well....omniscience likes tutors if you are in black. Casting the cards in your hand for free, then recurring and recasting cards from your graveyard for free can be devastating, having a board state that recurs interactions between your graveyard/board/hand with omniscience is IMO the way to play it.
Again speaking from experience people will not want to play with you if you consitently use infinite turns to win. I have found that you can assemble win con, and take minimal extra turns to finish in a way that does not leave your opponents feeling abused. Though if you are playing that rather douchey player that has it coming you can drop the avalanche.
Prime Time was awesome and helped me win allot of games, though I have long since tired of every game I played G, or one of my opponents played G, the game would always become, "chase the Prime Time".
Clone/Reanimate/Bribery/Tutor effects ALWAYS revolved around him.
Furthermore, mono decks outside of U or B, in my meta have become non existent. Prime Time focused mana accelleration strategies absolutely dominate, and if you are not ramping you are most likely just going to loose.
Already the response within my meta has been generally favorable, even coming from those who used/abused/reused him quite regularly.
He was stagnating our format, and my meta, RIP PT.