Scrying seems like a huge waste of 4 spots in a deck that naturally gathers tons of lands. Consider running Commune with the Gods in this spot.
Also... 8 Assaults? This is far, far too many. As mentioned above, you just have to learn to manage your draws and your dredges better. This takes MANY matches. A 4/1 (4/2 at the most) of Assaults/Vorteces should be plenty.
4 Liliana again feels excessive, but I like this more than the above.
I think 8 cycle lands is too many, 3-4 should do the trick and open up your mana. Same with Dakmor. The beauty of these lists is you don't have to be so high on the 4-of mantra. Your milling helps smooth out the deck. Use toolbox cards as tools.
With all those slots you freed up, improve your manabase and include more removal or early creatures. And don't get tilted by not drawing the "right half" of your deck, this will happen from time to time. Play this deck for the games that go insanely right and are awesome. If you don't like that style of play, more traditional Jund-style decks are probably better for you.
Pretty high level analysis, but it has a decklist to consider.
I was hoping someone had already posted this here. I don't like the list, but Paulo is a great Magic mind and him mentioning the deck will certainly spike many people's interest. Loam already spiked after the bycicle lands got spoiled, so I don't expect much in that way anymore, btw. The main problem I still see with the deck in general is the grave hate prevalent in most metas. Assault Loam's not fast enough to be able to just ignore it and always playing around it is worse than simply playing 'normal' Jund. Still, the archetype is super sweet and I'm excited to see whether it'll receive a little more attention., It certainly deserves it.
Contrary to your opinion, I actually feel Loam strategies are the downright best GY decks to play against hate (outside of Surgical Extraction). They are less all-in and are okay with playing fair through hate. You just have to play tight and force your opponent to either pop their Relic-style hate too early or prepare adequately for Leylines/RIPs. You don't just fold to these cards like Dredge and Goryo decks often do. I've played Zombie Loam and Loam Pox for a couple years now and rarely get "hosed" by hate. You really only auto-lose to Surgicals on your Loams.
Agree on Paulo's list, as I feel you want more universal answers (Decays) and less direct creature kill since our Assaults can do most of the heavy lifting there. Pretty sure he just grabbed the old GP list from early Modern and shoved new stuff in. In spite of all the tech from the last 4 years, I'm going to start with this list as "level 0" for testing purposes and adapt from there. It's a solid starting point for the archetype.
I actually just started looking at this deck again due to the new lands. Finally, some engine power! As a long time Loam Pox and Dredge player, these have me tripping out. Below is a list I gave up on pre-Kaladesh but have decided to start tinkering again.
I'm also interested in looking at the more traditional Jund route with Tireless Trackers, Bobs, Goyfs, and solid disruption elements. Advice or suggestions from more experienced Aggro Loam players is great!
I almost want to go a "combo delver" route in which we play Metallic Rebuke, Thopter Foundry, and Tezz (primarily for his -1) and just get there with fliers, but this play is weak to opposing discard and removal as it's more reactive. We basically are making the choice between being a bad Jund deck or a bad Lantern deck with little room in between. There's very little established identity, and that's more a fault of theorycrafting than a benefit of toolboxing.
We can all crush FNMs, but until there's higher-level testing against highly skilled pilots with established decks, we can't really trust the data from a forum. And that makes it really hard to establish a best shell (say, 51/60 cards that should be used regardless of the meta). As Radouf said, we could be chasing the wrong cards which affects the whole shell.
Until we take the whole thing super seriously, and invest the time and energy and critical thinking needed to work through the chaff, we won't be a top-level contender. The deck is fine. It's just not something I'm confident could win a GP in any hands in its current build(s).
@mjg94, I'm getting to the same headspace as you at the moment. We are actually the most viable we've been in a while now that so many creature strategies are emerging and we run bridges. However, Tezz just doesn't get the job done enough.
This deck needs better early interaction and more relevant artifacts to become viable. Fast mana would also help. Keep an eye out in future sets for cards like Baleful Strix, fast mana, and artifacts that do things that non-artifact cards in the deck already do.
I also currently run 2 GQs out of the board and have been happy with them. I bring them in with multiple Surgicals out of the board against Land decks and have the option to swap them in for Citadels when I know I'm getting hit by Stony Silence. Like above, I consider it a virtual spell that also shores up against white decks.
I've still been on a pre-ARV list and having middling success on a 4/3 combo split and going down to 2 Tezz main, 1 board (Board is a trash fire).
If you guys are liking Whir so much, could we feasibly turn into a draw-go based blue deck? Cards that make me like this more are Whir, Metallic Rebuke, and TfK (which we can't play to full effect in bridge lists). I have no suggestion atm of what that looks like but it could be a new route to explore. Maybe Bridges turn back into Vedalken Shackles?
Has anyone here thrown together Shinohara Gen's deck that he top 8'd with?
lol that list is from 2014 friend. doesn't really stand up to the meta now. Also, the Japanese builds of the deck were always fundamentally bad in our meta because the Asian metas (particularly Japan) look different from NA and EU. Even Shoutas list was never that good around us, even when played by the likes of LSV.
Playset of Mox Opal. There is some chance of Ensnaring Bridge masterpieces in Aether Revolt too, so old ones could get a little cheaper. I definitely think Opal is where you start though.
My current list has done well at the FNM level, but the E-Wit package is less than stellar. Wanna go back to the Flashback card. An early version also ran Gargadons as incidental wincons and ways to maximize Valakut damage, may be worth a try again. My most recent build:
I hate to be "that budget guy", but when setting up Energy Field how much life do you usually find you lose? How much damage would Hallowed Fountain be to the deck over Tundra? Transitioning from Modern and might need a few months to make the switch. Super inspired by this list, it seems sweet!
So it seems Brainstorm is painful for the deck, as is combo. Could Countertop be a viable addition to the shell, or is that just going in the wrong direction?
In regards to bridge/thirst synergy, you can actually just discard 2 and make it a better can't rip with more chances to dump your hand than a Serum Vision affords. The biggest strike against it is actually the prohibitive mana cost when combined with Lili and Bridge in those decks.
If anyone is at GP Charlotte, good luck and shoot me a message if you want to meet up and play some games!
Also... 8 Assaults? This is far, far too many. As mentioned above, you just have to learn to manage your draws and your dredges better. This takes MANY matches. A 4/1 (4/2 at the most) of Assaults/Vorteces should be plenty.
4 Liliana again feels excessive, but I like this more than the above.
I think 8 cycle lands is too many, 3-4 should do the trick and open up your mana. Same with Dakmor. The beauty of these lists is you don't have to be so high on the 4-of mantra. Your milling helps smooth out the deck. Use toolbox cards as tools.
With all those slots you freed up, improve your manabase and include more removal or early creatures. And don't get tilted by not drawing the "right half" of your deck, this will happen from time to time. Play this deck for the games that go insanely right and are awesome. If you don't like that style of play, more traditional Jund-style decks are probably better for you.
Contrary to your opinion, I actually feel Loam strategies are the downright best GY decks to play against hate (outside of Surgical Extraction). They are less all-in and are okay with playing fair through hate. You just have to play tight and force your opponent to either pop their Relic-style hate too early or prepare adequately for Leylines/RIPs. You don't just fold to these cards like Dredge and Goryo decks often do. I've played Zombie Loam and Loam Pox for a couple years now and rarely get "hosed" by hate. You really only auto-lose to Surgicals on your Loams.
Agree on Paulo's list, as I feel you want more universal answers (Decays) and less direct creature kill since our Assaults can do most of the heavy lifting there. Pretty sure he just grabbed the old GP list from early Modern and shoved new stuff in. In spite of all the tech from the last 4 years, I'm going to start with this list as "level 0" for testing purposes and adapt from there. It's a solid starting point for the archetype.
4 Commune with the Gods
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Life from the Loam
Loots
3 Faithless Looting
4 Cathartic Reunion
Combo
3 Splendid Reclamation
2 Mystic Retrieval
Removal
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Axe
4 Seismic Assault
3 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Stomping Ground
1 Cinder Glade
4 Sheltered Thicket
1 Forest
7 Mountain
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Pulse of Murasa
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Nature's Claim
2 Engineered Explosives
And if you'd prefer to go the more disrespectful route...
4 Commune with the Gods
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Life from the Loam
3 Stinkweed Imp
Loots
4 Faithless Looting
4 Cathartic Reunion
Combo
3 Splendid Reclamation
2 Mystic Retrieval
2 Greater Gargadon
3 Lightning Axe
1 Flame Jab
Lands
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Stomping Ground
2 Cinder Glade
4 Sheltered Thicket
1 Steam Vents
1 Forest
6 Mountain
3 Blood Moon
3 Pulse of Murasa
4 Anger of the Gods
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Nature's Claim
I'm also interested in looking at the more traditional Jund route with Tireless Trackers, Bobs, Goyfs, and solid disruption elements. Advice or suggestions from more experienced Aggro Loam players is great!
We can all crush FNMs, but until there's higher-level testing against highly skilled pilots with established decks, we can't really trust the data from a forum. And that makes it really hard to establish a best shell (say, 51/60 cards that should be used regardless of the meta). As Radouf said, we could be chasing the wrong cards which affects the whole shell.
Until we take the whole thing super seriously, and invest the time and energy and critical thinking needed to work through the chaff, we won't be a top-level contender. The deck is fine. It's just not something I'm confident could win a GP in any hands in its current build(s).
This deck needs better early interaction and more relevant artifacts to become viable. Fast mana would also help. Keep an eye out in future sets for cards like Baleful Strix, fast mana, and artifacts that do things that non-artifact cards in the deck already do.
If you guys are liking Whir so much, could we feasibly turn into a draw-go based blue deck? Cards that make me like this more are Whir, Metallic Rebuke, and TfK (which we can't play to full effect in bridge lists). I have no suggestion atm of what that looks like but it could be a new route to explore. Maybe Bridges turn back into Vedalken Shackles?
Playset of Mox Opal. There is some chance of Ensnaring Bridge masterpieces in Aether Revolt too, so old ones could get a little cheaper. I definitely think Opal is where you start though.
2 Lightning Axe
3 Faithless Looting
4 Life from the Loam
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Commmune with the Gods
3 Eternal Witness
2 Splendid Reclamation
4 Anger of the Gods
4 Seismic Assault
4 Stomping Ground
3 Cinder Glade
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Forest
8 Mountain
2 Pulse of Murasa
2 Molten Vortex / Engineered Explosives (meta call)
3 Fulminator Magge
3 Nature's Claim
3 Grafdigger's Cage
So it seems Brainstorm is painful for the deck, as is combo. Could Countertop be a viable addition to the shell, or is that just going in the wrong direction?
If anyone is at GP Charlotte, good luck and shoot me a message if you want to meet up and play some games!