[quote from="huktonfonix »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/market-street/market-street-cafe/576547-how-im-getting-a-playset-of-force-of-will-with?comment=1160"]
Or, you could just be a decent human being and try to honor their requests if you're wanting to trade with them. And if you aren't willing to honor their requests, the alternative is also pretty simple: Just don't send them cards and move on. Why go looking for a bad situation when you could instead be that awesome guy who actually did what the person was hoping you'd do, or at the very least maybe open up a dialogue with them and speak to them about it if you have concerns?
Following pucatrade rules instead of arbitrary demands someone adds to their profile = not a decent human being?
As for the why, many of us sign up for pucatrade on the appeal of simple trading with a standard set of rules and a minimum of back and forth hassle. If you list a want and I'm the first to hit send, I'm entitled to those points as long as I get you a NM English copy, shipped within 2 days and with appropriate packaging and postage, whether or not I follow any additional demands you make.
I don't see a single user currently looking for a foil Jace, so I suspect you'll be fine. If you have difficulty obtaining one, you could always mention a bounty in your username and/or profile and offer some additional points to the first person who ships you one.
Informal poll here: how do you deal with users with "OMG READ THIS FIRST" type usernames who insist in their profiles that you follow rules not dictated by Pucatrade? For instance:
send me pics before sending
you must use x service if value over Y
don't trade with me unless you send same day
etc
I've run across some "rules" that were simply scams and reported the users, but more often lately I'm just seeing people who don't seem to understand the service they signed up for and want to dictate their own rules. I'm personally not a very big fan of being told what to do, and am tempted to just ignore these profile commandments and just make sure I follow the Pucatrade minimums for shipping time, packaging, condition, and so on. However, I'm unsure how puca admins would respond to a case where I followed their rules but not the recipient's list of additional demands.
Anyone run into a situation like this?
Edit: for clarity I'm talking about $5-50 cards from modern-era sets here. I fully understand some extra negotiation on P9 or summer magic or the like.
Onslaught fetches were made modern legal, have far more demand, have the exact same availability as Piledriver, and dropped in value by about 40% when the reprint was announced. What is happening right now with Piledriver is totally irrational.
They were VERY scarce on Ebay a few days ago. I picked up 4 myself and noticed that the remaining 3 play sets were all selling by danbock. He seemed to have sold out too and I'm so lucky I bought them now because I considered playing RUG Delver if Tron becomes big.
Unfortunately whoever bought Dan Bock's sets will never see them, and he'll have 3 play sets relisted for double the price next week.
Is this right? I've never heard of danbock doing this. He even lowered the price to $30 when I offered $26 shipped. I declined though and ended up paying nearly $30 for mine after shipping.
Yeah, if you check the link in my sig he's on the list of shops that cancel orders. There was a whole reddit thread about him. He cancelled an order (well, never shipped it and ignored every email, I had to dispute) on me for Sword of Feast and Famine when there was a buyout on it a couple years ago, and he had many complaints for the same on Gaea's Cradle when the legend rule was changed.
Unfortunately with such high volume of sales, even hundreds of negative feedback don't register, and somehow he gets eBay to remove the negatives (he did mine).
They were VERY scarce on Ebay a few days ago. I picked up 4 myself and noticed that the remaining 3 play sets were all selling by danbock. He seemed to have sold out too and I'm so lucky I bought them now because I considered playing RUG Delver if Tron becomes big.
Unfortunately whoever bought Dan Bock's sets will never see them, and he'll have 3 play sets relisted for double the price next week.
Bah, after a relatively good run I've had a few dumb cases in the past 24 hours. First someone in Greece opened a case against me with no text in it. I asked what was up and he said "it didn't arrive yet." This was ten days after I shipped, not even two weeks on a trans-Atlantic package. The cards showed up later that day.
Tonight I got a couple 160 point cards from a dude in Texas that are a) beaten to crap and b) postmarked a full week after he supposedly shipped. Normally I wouldn't open a case for either of those reasons, especially on $3 in cards, but both issues together were pretty galling and clearly no accident.
Curious, those of you that have received duals, did you have a silver or gold membership and five points or send an extra card for incentive to receive the dual? I'm afraid to cash out my duals for other duals through Puca and not be able to get duals without something extra. I also don't want to wait for six or more months.
Getting duals on Puca can be quite a crapshoot. I traded off a spare Taiga once toward a Trop, but I got lucky and probably wouldn't again. This was when it was in its infancy. Tons more competition for duals now, and by going the pucatrade route you'd be sacrifing the competitive advantage you have. Trade binders on the table, the guy with other duals to offer back is generally in the best position to score a dual. On Puca you're on a level playing field with people who got their points by trading off Goblin Rabblemasters.
If you want to cash out a dual for a full deck of $20 cards it's great, but if you want to turn your Sea into a Volcanic I'd look elsewhere. Unless you're trying to trade a pile of revised Plateaus for a beta Underground Sea, and then I retract my advice.
Are people seriously comparing a card that's been reprinted in 2 modern-era core sets and Chronicles and Modern Masters to a card that has only ever been printed in Legends?
According to mtgtop8.com, these two cards see the following sideboard play over the last two months:
Blood Moon
Modern 22.3% of decks, 2.0 avg copies
Legacy 12.5% of decks, 1.7 avg copies
Engineered Explosives
Modern 17.1% of decks, 1.4 avg copies
Legacy 18.2% of decks, 1.2 avg copies
Similar competitive demand. Their MM 2013 availability is identical. That leaves a Fifth Dawn printing for EE vs. The Dark, Chronicles (a famously overprinted set), 8th, and 9th for Blood Moon. EE is $10. Blood Moon has been bought out across the internet and the few copies left are $40-$65. It makes no sense.
I think the people pointing to the rising value are missing the point Reid, Huey, etc. were going for.
The idea is that they're against making a decision based on out of game reasons in the Top 8 of a GP. It's hard to come up with a sports analogy that specifically fits this situation, but in general you want to be watching athletes going for the win, not playing to maximize their endorsements or anything like that. For what it's worth, I think that PGO honestly wouldn't take the card. The idea that this is jealousy or something is unfounded.
I mean, if you don't agree with them, that's fine. I'm just saying they didn't get more wrong just because the price is going up.
It's actually quite easy to come up with a sports analogy if you look at the draft/deck construction as being more akin to draft/free agency/roster construction in pro sports rather than in-game play. That is where the financial decisions are made, by both players and owners, and both make conscious cost benefit analyses between maximizing value and maximizing the chance to win constantly. Most of the time, value wins out even in the highest levels of professional sports. Teams, including the best teams in the world, frequently pass on the most expensive players for inferior but more cost-effective options. Players take huge contracts to play for a cellar dwelling team rather than accept a tiny fraction less to play for a championship contender.
People make these conscious decisions to take money over winning constantly and in games where the payouts are hundreds of millions of dollars, not $4000. Despite that, I've never seen a pro athlete or owner making that choice face the level of vitriol from their peers that Pascal is getting from certain MTG pros. Some of these guys have an amazingly over-inflated sense of the importance and sanctity of this game we love, as well as an appalling lack of perspective on the financial realities that all but a tiny, extremely privileged minority of pro players must consider.
I'm planning to do the same for GP Pittsburgh in November. My go-to modern deck was pod, and I have the cards to build the Wilt Leaf Liege or Collected Company Abzan decks but no real interest. I do have GR Tron but I don't think I want to play that in a long tournament as the games are too linear and boring for my liking.
This is an interesting one to me. It's certainly true that it seemed like an obvious MM2015 candidate, and was left out. In a vacuum I'd think BFZ was a logical place for a reprint, but I'm not so sure that Wizards is going to want to create a standard format with Goblin Guide, Monastery Swiftspear, and Zurgo Bellstriker all legal at once. I could be completely wrong, but that seems like a very, very pushed format for RDW.
Following pucatrade rules instead of arbitrary demands someone adds to their profile = not a decent human being?
As for the why, many of us sign up for pucatrade on the appeal of simple trading with a standard set of rules and a minimum of back and forth hassle. If you list a want and I'm the first to hit send, I'm entitled to those points as long as I get you a NM English copy, shipped within 2 days and with appropriate packaging and postage, whether or not I follow any additional demands you make.
I've run across some "rules" that were simply scams and reported the users, but more often lately I'm just seeing people who don't seem to understand the service they signed up for and want to dictate their own rules. I'm personally not a very big fan of being told what to do, and am tempted to just ignore these profile commandments and just make sure I follow the Pucatrade minimums for shipping time, packaging, condition, and so on. However, I'm unsure how puca admins would respond to a case where I followed their rules but not the recipient's list of additional demands.
Anyone run into a situation like this?
Edit: for clarity I'm talking about $5-50 cards from modern-era sets here. I fully understand some extra negotiation on P9 or summer magic or the like.
Figure of Destiny was reprinted in heroes vs monsters right after MMA. Could happen.
Yeah, if you check the link in my sig he's on the list of shops that cancel orders. There was a whole reddit thread about him. He cancelled an order (well, never shipped it and ignored every email, I had to dispute) on me for Sword of Feast and Famine when there was a buyout on it a couple years ago, and he had many complaints for the same on Gaea's Cradle when the legend rule was changed.
Unfortunately with such high volume of sales, even hundreds of negative feedback don't register, and somehow he gets eBay to remove the negatives (he did mine).
Unfortunately whoever bought Dan Bock's sets will never see them, and he'll have 3 play sets relisted for double the price next week.
Tonight I got a couple 160 point cards from a dude in Texas that are a) beaten to crap and b) postmarked a full week after he supposedly shipped. Normally I wouldn't open a case for either of those reasons, especially on $3 in cards, but both issues together were pretty galling and clearly no accident.
Getting duals on Puca can be quite a crapshoot. I traded off a spare Taiga once toward a Trop, but I got lucky and probably wouldn't again. This was when it was in its infancy. Tons more competition for duals now, and by going the pucatrade route you'd be sacrifing the competitive advantage you have. Trade binders on the table, the guy with other duals to offer back is generally in the best position to score a dual. On Puca you're on a level playing field with people who got their points by trading off Goblin Rabblemasters.
If you want to cash out a dual for a full deck of $20 cards it's great, but if you want to turn your Sea into a Volcanic I'd look elsewhere. Unless you're trying to trade a pile of revised Plateaus for a beta Underground Sea, and then I retract my advice.
A better comparison would be Engineered Explosives.
According to mtgtop8.com, these two cards see the following sideboard play over the last two months:
Blood Moon
Modern 22.3% of decks, 2.0 avg copies
Legacy 12.5% of decks, 1.7 avg copies
Engineered Explosives
Modern 17.1% of decks, 1.4 avg copies
Legacy 18.2% of decks, 1.2 avg copies
Similar competitive demand. Their MM 2013 availability is identical. That leaves a Fifth Dawn printing for EE vs. The Dark, Chronicles (a famously overprinted set), 8th, and 9th for Blood Moon. EE is $10. Blood Moon has been bought out across the internet and the few copies left are $40-$65. It makes no sense.
It's actually quite easy to come up with a sports analogy if you look at the draft/deck construction as being more akin to draft/free agency/roster construction in pro sports rather than in-game play. That is where the financial decisions are made, by both players and owners, and both make conscious cost benefit analyses between maximizing value and maximizing the chance to win constantly. Most of the time, value wins out even in the highest levels of professional sports. Teams, including the best teams in the world, frequently pass on the most expensive players for inferior but more cost-effective options. Players take huge contracts to play for a cellar dwelling team rather than accept a tiny fraction less to play for a championship contender.
People make these conscious decisions to take money over winning constantly and in games where the payouts are hundreds of millions of dollars, not $4000. Despite that, I've never seen a pro athlete or owner making that choice face the level of vitriol from their peers that Pascal is getting from certain MTG pros. Some of these guys have an amazingly over-inflated sense of the importance and sanctity of this game we love, as well as an appalling lack of perspective on the financial realities that all but a tiny, extremely privileged minority of pro players must consider.
I'm planning to do the same for GP Pittsburgh in November. My go-to modern deck was pod, and I have the cards to build the Wilt Leaf Liege or Collected Company Abzan decks but no real interest. I do have GR Tron but I don't think I want to play that in a long tournament as the games are too linear and boring for my liking.
I think I'm going to take a Jeskai Possibility Storm and Rule of Law combo deck with Isochron Scepter to troll the event instead. My friend will probably bring his Izzet Shared Fate deck that goes infinite with Izzet Guildmage, Training Grounds, and Manamorphose for similar trolling.
If I beat one real deck, I'll be happy to drop and scour vendors and play side events.