Here is my take on a 270 card cube! It's my first cube ever and so far it has been a ton of fun for our little playgroup. We are usually about 4 people drafting and I probably wouldn't go with a list any smaller for a group this size.
Looking for advice if anyone has any Thanks!
Edit: I thought I would share some of my thoughts about building a micro cube rather than just post my list.
Small cubes like this have very little room for filler. I would advise anyone making a micro cube to put a lot of theory into their cube design because card choice matters that much more. When designing balance I found it difficult to try making a small cube from scratch because I had chosen some archetypes and I had to be really critical of any potential inclusion. What I opted to do instead was to create a 360+ card list and trim the list down. I found it much easier to do it that way and I had to make some hard choices. For example, I originally included tinker/artifacts matter support but when I trimmed the list down to 270, the strategy became too weak to be consistent. A few other strategies were stretched too thin as well and could be hate drafted out of existence with only a couple picks. I quickly realized that I would have to make archetype sacrifices to increase competitive diversity.
I'm not suggesting having perfectly crafted archetypes prior to building your cube, but keep in mind that it may be better to drop undersupported archetypes entirely to leave more cube slots to balancing the remaining strategies. This is made easier by having a focus on archetypes with overlap. Alternatively, you could try removing cards like Sneak Attack that work with just about any creature so those big green fatties won't get snatched up before the green ramp decks get them. Just something to keep in mind!
I really like the look of this cube and I'm curious to know how it has been working out for you. I did some testing with the AI on cubetutor and it seemed pretty solid but decisions were hard to make because each card has political implications to consider. I'm thinking of building a multiplayer 270 unpowered cube just like this and it has been really hard to find resources for this niche! I worry about multiplayer because of how stale games can get if everyone has a little army and no one wants to attack :/ I'm trying to design a dynamic and well-paced multiplayer experience without too much lull. I feel like you were right to not include many counterspells or wraths, and the higher curve of the draft makes sense, I'll take those choices into consideration when I go to design my own. I feel like more "alpha-strike" cards could be beneficial, like mass tap-down cards could be good to end games when they've gone on long enough (or a combo maybe?).
Have you been drafting this cube? if so:
What has been the overall impression of the drafts?
How long have the games been lasting?
Also, if you were to draft this with 3 or 4 people, would you adopt a different drafting style compared to typical 6+ player drafts?
Notably, I am down to 25 cards that transform Delver in the main. I honestly doubt it's an issue. I'd rather be a little less likely to come sprinting out of the gate if it means I am more likely to hit early land drops. The paradigm shift makes me appreciate Todd Anderson's more midrangey aggro-control looking lists, although I prefer a much lower curve.
I too doubt you'll have much of an issue flipping Delver but it's definitely something to keep an eye on. On another note, I'm also seeing how 2 Snapcasters in the mainboard do, but so far tiago is making me want to drop Mana Leak from the list and run only 1cmc couners here. I should mention that I'm still on 18 lands, I'm guessing the 19th land helps?
Last night at FNM I went 3:1 with the exact list posted earlier.
Matchups:
Tron 2-0
8Rack 2-0
Scapeshift 0-2
RB Aggro 2-1
I was pretty happy with my results considering it's been over 6 months since I've played in a tournament. I'm kicking myself for two things: the first is that I misplayed against Scapeshift (I played a goyf right into a wrath ) and the second is for not packing Disdainful Stroke in the sideboard, I think it's really strong for us and it answers a ton of stuff in the matchups where we need more counters (especially where our noncreature counters don't help).
I was super happy with Faithless Looting and more underwhelmed than ever with Thought Scour (it feels awful to cast, imo we need to cut it somehow). Traverse actually felt very good and surprisingly easy to set up, I don't think we need any more support for it than simply running Looting and 4 card types. That said, I feel like having 7+ counters in the main might be good for us, the whole night I felt like I could've used more interaction.
Spicy inclusion Saheeli Rai sealed the deal twice for me, once against 8Rack and once against RB Aggro. Both times I had a 5/6 goyf that she helped turn into 10 damage. Very spicy stuff. She was borderline 'win-more' in those scenarios but I appreciated putting away the game quickly.
Hello! I've been off RUG Delver for a little while now but the new FL build has me excited again. I'm going to be heading to FNM this week in my hometown but it's been so long since I've played there that I'm essentially going into the meta blind. I was wondering if the following list would be a good choice for an unknown meta:
I'm wondering if I should just cut Traverse altogether. Saheeli technically makes it some percentage more reliable, but she also fills the same slot in a roundabout way - i.e., increasing threat count via her -2. Thoughts? I could also use some sideboard tips please! Would a Snapcaster be a viable sideboard option against midrange/control?
I don't like traverse in this build. No artifacts and/or tribals hurts delirium so much. I'd just play the 3rd leak.
In side you may cut a grudge or revelry for a Chandra ToD. I'm playing Huntmaster, but UWx Control just shrug and cast mass removal when they see it, so I may change the side. The most difficult part for me is to leave out blood moon. But it may be worth.
Thanks for the feedback and advice everyone! I'm also not sold on Traverse but I do find FL either sets it up or bins it as needed. I think the only thing I would replace Traverse with would be Stubborn Denial because of the 4x Mandrills. Also, I got a little insight into the meta and I'm likely facing mostly aggro/burn with the possibility of ponza and lantern so I'm liking the thought of Traverse in those two matchups. I'll let everyone know how it goes after the weekend.
Hello! I've been off RUG Delver for a little while now but the new FL build has me excited again. I'm going to be heading to FNM this week in my hometown but it's been so long since I've played there that I'm essentially going into the meta blind. I was wondering if the following list would be a good choice for an unknown meta:
I'm wondering if I should just cut Traverse altogether. Saheeli technically makes it some percentage more reliable, but she also fills the same slot in a roundabout way - i.e., increasing threat count via her -2. Thoughts? I could also use some sideboard tips please! Would a Snapcaster be a viable sideboard option against midrange/control?
Hey everyone, I've been lost in modern and I'm here to commit to trying a new deck. Here's my story:
I first played Naya Zoo in modern up until they banned Wild Nacatl.
I then moved to Affinity and nearly foiled out the whole deck until I became bored with the archetype.
I briefly played UR Storm with Pyromancer Ascension and that was fun but I missed being interactive.
After that I committed to Bant Midrange and had a ton of fun brewing until Collected Company saw print.
I honestly think it's so good in Bant colors that it invalidates a lot of other Bant strategies but what do I know it wasn't my style of deck anyhow.
That leads up to my favourite deck of all time, one that truly embodied what I loved about magic, Monkey Grow (thank you ashtonkutcher).
However, I was too unhappy with it's performance after Gitaxian Probe ate a ban...
So now I'm in Limbo, not sure where to go from here.
I've just been scouring posts, forums, and articles for inspiration.
My fingers have been crossed for a new card to come out that will spark my interest.
tl;dr: I like tempo (the deck archetype), interactivity, moderate skill intensity, and being able to beat aggro. what do I play next?
To make this better or on par with Jund then don't we have to change our philosophy of what Esper can offer? The primary reason to add black right now in a deck like this would be to add the trio of 1cc power: Fatal Push, Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek.
What makes white blue, white black and blue black push it over the edge? Tidehollow Sculler and Geist of Saint Traft come to mind?
To make that work, we would need some disruption before that, or card advantage after that? I think a creature version would be good with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben.
After all this, we need to come up with a plan to keep the momentum going or at least strike hard and fast? I was thinking Death's Shadow which makes Ranger of Eos better, but can we really justify it?
I hope I gave enough of a stepping stone to find a new path for Esper Midrange?
I respect the theoretical approach to deckbuilding. If I may add, in my opinion the top reasons for running black are actually Fatal Push and Lingering Souls. This deck could head in two directions from there, either include a strong discard package (e.g., thoughtseize) backed up by late game delve fatties or forego the discard plan and come up with a something "lower to the ground" so to speak. I think the former gameplan is currently outdone by the likes of Grixis, but they notably lack Path to exile so I think there could be reason to still play white especially considering the highly relevant sideboard options it provides. Personally my dream would be to pursue the latter more aggressive approach but I just don't think we currently have the right tools to make it work. Fingers crossed something exciting gets printed or a moment of innovation strikes us!
With the meta shaping up to be focused on linear aggro (e.g., Humans, Hollow One, Affinity) should we push for a slightly more midrange gameplan? I've been contemplating adding Huntmaster to the main on 18 lands.
I would also like to second the opinion that Abrade is currently an amazing sideboard card!
I’d go with option 2, I see no problem with archetype separation. Indeed it is true that decks blend archetypes, but do they not often have a primary game plan that favours one over the other? I totally concede that decks will inevitably be awkwardly placed but I think the community could vote for placements and ultimately it would be a much better system than we have now.
When it comes to Tron and other big mana decks, I’d say we can differ from the legacy forums and simply include a Big Mana archetype (or something like it). Let’s keep the number of archetypes to a minimum overall but exceptions can be made to start. I say we see how well they work before ruling it out
Looking for advice if anyone has any
270 Card Unpowered Cube
Edit: I thought I would share some of my thoughts about building a micro cube rather than just post my list.
Small cubes like this have very little room for filler. I would advise anyone making a micro cube to put a lot of theory into their cube design because card choice matters that much more. When designing balance I found it difficult to try making a small cube from scratch because I had chosen some archetypes and I had to be really critical of any potential inclusion. What I opted to do instead was to create a 360+ card list and trim the list down. I found it much easier to do it that way and I had to make some hard choices. For example, I originally included tinker/artifacts matter support but when I trimmed the list down to 270, the strategy became too weak to be consistent. A few other strategies were stretched too thin as well and could be hate drafted out of existence with only a couple picks. I quickly realized that I would have to make archetype sacrifices to increase competitive diversity.
I'm not suggesting having perfectly crafted archetypes prior to building your cube, but keep in mind that it may be better to drop undersupported archetypes entirely to leave more cube slots to balancing the remaining strategies. This is made easier by having a focus on archetypes with overlap. Alternatively, you could try removing cards like Sneak Attack that work with just about any creature so those big green fatties won't get snatched up before the green ramp decks get them. Just something to keep in mind!
Have you been drafting this cube? if so:
What has been the overall impression of the drafts?
How long have the games been lasting?
Also, if you were to draft this with 3 or 4 people, would you adopt a different drafting style compared to typical 6+ player drafts?
My list would definitely include:
Endless Whispers
Etali, Primal Storm
Illicit Auction
Reverse the Sands
Head Games
Potentially Abrupt Decay and Spreading Algae if you run Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth with them.
Life from the Loam too of course
Matchups:
- Tron 2-0
- 8Rack 2-0
- Scapeshift 0-2
- RB Aggro 2-1
I was pretty happy with my results considering it's been over 6 months since I've played in a tournament. I'm kicking myself for two things: the first is that I misplayed against Scapeshift (I played a goyf right into a wrathI was super happy with Faithless Looting and more underwhelmed than ever with Thought Scour (it feels awful to cast, imo we need to cut it somehow). Traverse actually felt very good and surprisingly easy to set up, I don't think we need any more support for it than simply running Looting and 4 card types. That said, I feel like having 7+ counters in the main might be good for us, the whole night I felt like I could've used more interaction.
Spicy inclusion Saheeli Rai sealed the deal twice for me, once against 8Rack and once against RB Aggro. Both times I had a 5/6 goyf that she helped turn into 10 damage. Very spicy stuff. She was borderline 'win-more' in those scenarios but I appreciated putting away the game quickly.
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Hooting Mandrills
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Young Pyromancer
Instant (16)
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Mana Leak
4x Spell Pierce
2x Thought Scour
4x Vapor Snag
Sorcery (11)
4x Faithless Looting
2x Forked Bolt
4x Serum Visions
1x Traverse the Ulvenwald
1x Saheeli Rai
Land (18)
1x Breeding Pool
1x Forest
2x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Mountain
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
2x Wooded Foothills
3x Ancient Grudge
1x Basilisk Collar
3x Damping Sphere
2x Destructive Revelry
2x Feed the Clan
2x Firespout
2x Stubborn Denial
I first played Naya Zoo in modern up until they banned Wild Nacatl.
I then moved to Affinity and nearly foiled out the whole deck until I became bored with the archetype.
I briefly played UR Storm with Pyromancer Ascension and that was fun but I missed being interactive.
After that I committed to Bant Midrange and had a ton of fun brewing until Collected Company saw print.
I honestly think it's so good in Bant colors that it invalidates a lot of other Bant strategies but what do I know it wasn't my style of deck anyhow.
That leads up to my favourite deck of all time, one that truly embodied what I loved about magic, Monkey Grow (thank you ashtonkutcher).
However, I was too unhappy with it's performance after Gitaxian Probe ate a ban...
So now I'm in Limbo, not sure where to go from here.
I've just been scouring posts, forums, and articles for inspiration.
My fingers have been crossed for a new card to come out that will spark my interest.
tl;dr: I like tempo (the deck archetype), interactivity, moderate skill intensity, and being able to beat aggro. what do I play next?
PS. RIP Gitaxian Probe
I would also like to second the opinion that Abrade is currently an amazing sideboard card!
When it comes to Tron and other big mana decks, I’d say we can differ from the legacy forums and simply include a Big Mana archetype (or something like it). Let’s keep the number of archetypes to a minimum overall but exceptions can be made to start. I say we see how well they work before ruling it out