For some reason attendance was light at FNM last night. I guess the uncreative folks are waiting for netdecks
Came in second place out of 8 with my deck. I went 2-1 over the evening. I've diverged a bit from the thread's idea by splashing into Esper colors for blue, but my gameplan is the same so I figured I'd post my results.
First of all, here's the list. WARNING! This deck is makeshift. I was missing pieces when assembling it. I'll go into more detail later in the post and explain my intended changes.
Match 1 was vs a Junk deck that made heavy use of Scavenging Ooze.
Game 1. He had a strong start, but I had enough removal to keep him in check. The slaughter led to some VERY strong oozes in the mid-late game. Fortunately, between the whips and Obzedat, I was able to stabilize. Eventually a supreme verdict wiped the field clean of everything but my Erebos. Erebos was kept online between the whip and two underworld connections. He conceded at this point because he was in topdeck mode while I was discarding ~2 cards a turn because erebos and connections kept me fat and happy with a hand that was literally overflowing. My life total changed values 32 times over the course of the match. We needed a new sheet for game 2.
For game 2, I ditched the reavers for lifebane zombies. They stole some oozes from his hand, but he managed to kill most of them with golgari charms. Selesnya charms removed each obzedat I tried to play. Erebos was flickering on and off as the zombies were killed. Finally I found a connections to go with my whip and was able to clean the board with a verdict. At this point in the game, I had 8 lands. I won when I dropped Vizkopa guildmage and was able to trigger her second ability twice. My opponent lost 15 life in one turn between Erebos' attack and the guildmage ability.
Match 2: I was up against a G/R aggro deck packing both Domri and Xenogas. Hero's Downfall was exceptionally useful, but it wasn't enough to keep them at bay. Ultimately I never stabilized and Xenogas' satyrs ran me over.
For game 2 I ditched the reavers for lifebane zombies. My opponent got mana-flooded and I managed to beat him down with the zombies. His last shot at victory was a Stormbreath Dragon, but Elspeth managed to kill it with her -3.
Game 3 saw the return of the planeswalker parade. Xenogas overwhelmed me again. My opponent went on to come in first place for the evening.
Match 3: For this match, I was up against an Azorious control deck. Basic stuff. Sphinx's rev to stabilize, Aetherling as the primary wincon. Thassa, God of the Sea made an appearance and some Prognostic Sphinxes were alternate wincons.
For Game 1, I could not find my creatures for the life of me. I found my removal though. My opponent looked a little crestfallen as 3 prognostic sphinxes fell back-to-back to edicts...that hexproof on demand was not working as he had hoped it would work. Eventually I found a Hundred-Handed one and managed to monstrify him. That kept the 4th sphinx in check. Unfortunately I could not swing because a spear of heliod threatened to destroy my only creature as a result of the combat. Aetherling showed up once my opponent and I had 8 lands. It died when I threw 3 removal spells at it. I found a ninth land and played Vizkopa Guildmage. At the end of my opponent's turn, I forced him to tap his last prognostic sphinx by throwing a doomblade at it. The game ended when I swung with the guildmage/hundred-hands for 8 lifelink damage and triggered the guildmage's second ability three times. My opponent did not expect to lose 32 life in a single turn. He sideboarded in pithing needle specifically for her.
For game 2 I sideboarded out most all of my removal and brought in duress/sin collector/lifebane zombie. With that much hand hate, this match was heavily in my favor. A few duresses stole his essence scatters. Sin collectors stole his verdicts and sphinxe's revelations. Lifebane.....let me look at his hand....but could swing for 3. Some D-spheres slowed me down, but Obzedat finished him off.
Probably the biggest difference between this deck and most of the others being posted is the addition of blue. Primarily for one card. Supreme Verdict. I desperately wanted a sweeper for this deck. Mutilate is gone, I fear that Merciless Eviction is too slow, and Supreme Verdict is only a splash away. The result of splashing for Verdict? Yes. 4 cmc wraths are infact as good as they've always been.
Since I was going blue for verdict, I figured that Far//Away was worth introducing to my removal pool.
Why do I have a copy of Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx? This deck isn't built to take full advantage of it. However I'm of the opinion that there is effectively no downside to running a singleton of Nykthos in the deck. At worst it produces colorless mana at no tempo loss. At best it produces surplus mana and helps me play multiple spells in one turn.
Why lilli's reaver? Because I only had 1 hundred-handed one and my order of alms beasts was late. I was impressed with hundred-hand's performance. I'll probably play a 50/50 mix of hundred-hands and alms beast to see which I am most satisfied with.
Why no High Priest of Penance? Because I only have 1 and the other 3 are in the same order with the Alms Beasts. I'm planing to replace some of my removal with him.
Why only 1 Elspeth? Because I only have 1. I plan to upgrade the deck to 2 of her at the first possible opportunity. Maybe even a 3 of.
Why 4 underworld connections?!?! It reminds me of phyrexian arena and I like the way it solidifies your presence to a nigh unassailable position once you've stabilized. Even if the opponent manages to flip the tables, I will probably have a full hand and be able to make an immediate response. It is also 2 devotion to black that won't vanish to most board wipes. Swinging with Erebos immediately after a Verdict was a fun one-two punch. I hope to do something similar between him and Hythonia the cruel in a devotion centric mono-B deck in the coming months....but I don't feel that there are enough resilient low cmc black permanents to form the foundation of that deck yet. Here's hoping for some playable control-centric black enchantments over the next few sets. Read the Bones is connection's primary competition. Bones is probably better for helping you quickly find a piece that you need to stabilize. Choosing one over the other is probably a personal preference/meta call.
Why 3 whips? The whips are instrumental to stabilizing. This deck has some high power creatures, and swinging once or twice with lifelink generates tons of life. Enough to knock you right out of range of some decks. It also makes Obzedat even harder to keep dead. I'll accept the risk of dead cards if the card is influential enough. I had a W/G ramp deck last season that ran a playset of Sigarda, Host of Herons. Sure, I had extras in my hand, but I didn't care because I'd always play her on schedule and she'd frequently nearly win the game by herself. Plus I had spares if they actually managed to remove her somehow (that always disheartened the opponent :tongue:)
Why Erebos? I can turn him on fairly easily between the double-black permanents in this deck. By himself he cripples control decks trying to stay afloat with extort, obzedat, or sphinx's revelation. He can also draw you a ton of cards once you've stabilized. You've all been playing similar decks. You all know how your life total mostly becomes irrelevant once obzedat/erebos/alms beast are swinging with lifelink. Just sink any and all excess mana into this ability and your hand will be back at 7 in no time. Even if the opponent has a threatening defensive line, he can swing for 5 lifelink into them with no fear. I also like the board wipe/swing one-two punch.
Why vizkopa guildmage? She ends games. I like her for the same reason I liked running 1-2 copies of Sorin's Vengeance in a deck. They can break a stalemate in one fell swoop. In a deck like this, a potent lifelinking force of creatures is an inevitability. Her coming onto the field is almost always followed by an explosive drop in my opponent's life total. That said, she does require support to be so potent. A beatstick, a whip or sufficient mana to grant lifelink with the first ability, and then mana to pay for the second. That's expensive, but it also frequently ends the game then and there. However she is unfortunately rendered into a gold bear if an opponent plays Erebos. I may end up replacing her with something more self-contained. Perhaps some more Elspeths.
Final thoughts:
I suffered against token swarms and an excess of planeswalkers. I think my deck would benefit greatly from Detention Sphere. I plan to replace my Far//Away's with D-Spheres. Between High Priest of Penance, Detention Sphere, and Hero's Downfall, I don't think I'll have many planeswalker problems anymore.
While fighting Aetherling, it dawned on me that he is capable of loop-holing his way to immortality with the whip in the same manner that obzedat can. My deck can nearly support the casting of aetherlings as it stands. The replacement of a few swamps with islands or Watery Graves would make it even more comfortable. I might experiment with him.
My LGS is drafting next week, but the following is the deck I plan on bringing to the next standard night.
All-in-all, I was happy with the deck's performance. I look forward to seeing how the meta shapes up at my LGS and making the appropriate changes. I'm not certain about glare in the sideboard. Perhaps celestial flare or renounce the guilds. Maybe claustrophobia. I'd like an answer to Blood Baron of Vizkopa short of nuking the field with Supreme Verdict or just trying to out-race him. Rapid Hybridization or Curse of the Swine? By the time BBV is a thing, I really don't care if they get a 3/3 or 2/2. A free 3/3 is a small price to pay to remove obzedat or BBV.
That said, even Verdict may be acceptable to kill something as problematic as a BBV. Erebos survives it, Obzedat is relatively easy to resurrect, Elpeth isn't hit by it (Elspeth kills BBV anyway), and potential aetherlings can dodge it (or be resurrected).
i also think splashing blue for verdict is the right way to go. is the mix of Hundred-Handed One and alms beast better than running Desecration Demon, especially with so much removal in the deck? The double black is also good for Erbos. Do you miss md discard like Thoughtseize or Sin Collector or does the deck run better without it md? Have you had issues casting Verdict with your mana base on turn 4?
after looking at your list im going to try testing this:
If you're splashing blue for verdict already, then far//away is a better choice than devour flesh.
yes, but it cost 3 or 5. i really need something in the 2cc slot as far as removal goes. im also trying to keep the U splash as light as possible, still fooling around with the manabase to try and make it less painful early.
You are trying to do a lot of things, but not really excelling at anything. You have basically made a deck with a weaker mana base, an underpowered creature set, and a splash of countermagic. Meanwhile, you forego the strongest addition that a blue splash gives to the deck(an efficient sweeper).
The deck isn't bad, but you seem to be straddling the fence here.
Sphinx's Revelation is very good, but between Read the Bones and Underworld Connections, the straight B/W Midrange build is actually doing pretty good on card draw already. Supreme Verdict plugs a much bigger hole in the deck than Sphinx's Revelation.
Also, the Far // Away is good, but can be replaced somewhat efficiently with Devour Flesh. It isn't as good, but it isn't that much worse either...
The Nightveil Specter is good, but you don't need to splash blue to do that.
So basically, I'm looking at the counterspells and Supreme Verdict as the primary source of value to running blue in the deck. However, a mid-late game Supreme Verdict is counter productive for our gameplan anyways. It basically needs to be a turn 4 play against aggro to be useful for the deck, which makes me wonder why I would even bother...
my thinking has been pretty much along this line as well, but i think Supreme Verdict is worth the U splash. im going to try testing this out:
High Priest of Penance made the md because he's so flexible, either trading up or blowing up a hard to deal with permanent. I went with Duress over Sin Collector because I really wanted another card that could help with planeswalkers, enchantments, and artifacts
i could use some help with the mana base though, not sure what it should look like atm.
my only problem with blind obedience is that it doesn't actually kill anything. and if Merciless Eviction is the best sweeper we have, i really want my 2cc cards to kill creatures. as much as i would love to go with Orzhov Charm, the life loss is to much. so unless a good black or white card with life gain is spoiled, will change
in the deck i posted the instant removal in the deck IS Orzhov Charm and Devour Flesh. I don't care about the charms other effects, just that it can kill anything without restriction if i pay the life.
you added Obzedat's Aid, but removed connections and alot of the creatures worth getting back? i would rather play another BB or DD then Obzedat's Aid.
this is a control deck, if i can thoughtseize and twiddle my thumbs the first couple tuns i have no problem with that. otherwise your probably playing removal to stay alive.
i've though about replacing Purge the Profane with Sin Collector, but i really like the 2 life PtP gives back. SC is really only good as a road block, and whiffs more than i like.
will try out Renounce the Guilds, i think the deck will lean toward B, so not sure Celestial Flare could be cast t2.
a sweeper better than Merciless Eviction would be nice. Playing it might require also playing Orzhov Keyrune to get it out when needed. I like Elspeth, Sun's Champion here, but im not sure what Heliod brings to the deck. he'll almost never be a creature in this style of deck, and vigilance + 4cc 2/1's aren't all that great here. Im thinking of starting with something like this:
Orzhov Charm will probably become some combination of doom blade/ultimate price, as the life loss in the deck might get out of hand. Surprisingly white brings very little in the form of spot removal.
I always loved the idea of Armed & Ready on Boros Reckoner or doll. You attack they must block it with everything and thus take a ton of damage. Even more beautiful: You can give double strike to one of the opposing creatures, so they strike the doll two times. You could use the green/ red keyrunes if you don't want to play anything but mountains.
Rolling Temblor is also good with Stuffy Doll & Reckoner. The Inquisitor's Flail is also very funny with either reckoner or Doll.
yeah, id probably md Rolling Temblor over Blasphemous Act. also, why no Thundermaw Hellkite? thundermaw and Devil's Play would give the deck alot of reach. i would also recommend Chandra, Pyromaster for card advantage in a deck like this. maybe something like this
Thanks for the tips! I think you have a good point with adding more control and evasion. I should have mentioned I don't really have anything from the Innistrad block and don't want to buy cards right before the rotation.
the problem with this is that alot of those creatures just aren't very good. i would go with what b/w is good at, killing creatures, graveyard recursion, and hard to kill threats.
in this deck some of your threats are immune to alot of removal, while the creatures don't care about death because they can be brought back from the grave in a number of ways. your sideboard should be alot of anti-control cards like duress, Sin Collector, Appetite for Brains, lifebane zombie, ect...
I tried a shell like this with Trading Post and Angelic Accord and that failed miserably. Fiendslayer is a house against RDW and with Sorin's Emblem or Curse of Death's Hold its first strike hits all the annoying 3 toughness that is infesting the meta. Haven't gotten to test it out at FNM yet, but I seem to draw at least 3 Swamps consistently enough for a turn 4 Mutilate that gives -3/-3 (which is what you want). Haunted Platemail and Desecration Demon survive most Mutilates and the platemail is an incredible pump on Blood Baron which helps against it's greatest weakness: big green dudes.
plate mail also lets Blood Baron survive mizzium mortars, another card i've had issues playing him against. i'll have to test out the platemail, but probably without the token subtheme.
if you want to play control you definitely want Mutilate in the deck. actually you want more removal in general. if the format were slower with more control decks, resto angel/sin collector/zombie could be good. but i just see it getting run over with how fast aggro and even midrange can be atm. this is what im trying out:
the only problem i see with deathpact angel is that she is clunky, and thats a lot fighting against her. obzedat seems strictly better, IMO, since he has an immediate drain 2 when you play him.
im actually surprised that more list don't have Angel of Serenity. I would play her before i ever thought of playing Deathpact Angel.
For draw, what about staff of nin or blood gift demon?
I'm a fan of underworld connections, just not all the time if I want to tap out... I can't draw.
this is the route im going to try.Im a big fan of Staff of Nin, and Bloodgift Demon isn't to bad with ways to recur him.
i don't see any reason not to play some of the power cards in b/w/r like Rakdos's Return, Unburial Rites, and Angel of Serenity. i would love to fit Dreadbore in here somewhere, but don't want to take a huge amount of damage from my lands. Also might get in the way of running mutilate.
4x Orzhov Keyrune
4x Hero's Downfall
4x Underworld Connections
4x Merciless Eviction
2x Blind Obedience
2x Haunted Plate mail
3x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4x High Priest of Penance
2x Heliod, God of the Sun
6 Swamps
4 Plains
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple of Silence
4 Orzhov Guildgate
2 Mutavault
In theory it seems like it might work pretty well, having a good game 1 against midrange and aggro.
i also think splashing blue for verdict is the right way to go. is the mix of Hundred-Handed One and alms beast better than running Desecration Demon, especially with so much removal in the deck? The double black is also good for Erbos. Do you miss md discard like Thoughtseize or Sin Collector or does the deck run better without it md? Have you had issues casting Verdict with your mana base on turn 4?
after looking at your list im going to try testing this:
4x Devour Flesh
4x Supreme Verdict
4x Hero's Downfall
4x Underworld Connections
2x Blind Obedience
1x Whip of Erebos
2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Creatures
4x High Priest of Penance
4x Desecration Demon
3x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Godless Shrine
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Temple of Silence
2 Plain
also going to try out Blind Obedience, as it helps against Obzedat, Ghost Council, Advent of the Wurm, Whip of Erebos, and RDW creatures.
yes, but it cost 3 or 5. i really need something in the 2cc slot as far as removal goes. im also trying to keep the U splash as light as possible, still fooling around with the manabase to try and make it less painful early.
my thinking has been pretty much along this line as well, but i think Supreme Verdict is worth the U splash. im going to try testing this out:
4x Devour Flesh
4x Supreme Verdict
3x Underworld Connections
2x Duress
2x Hero's Downfall
4x High Priest of Penance
4x Desecration Demon
4x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
5 Swamp
4 Plains
4 Godless shrine
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Watery Grave
3 Temple of Silence
2 Temple of Deceit
High Priest of Penance made the md because he's so flexible, either trading up or blowing up a hard to deal with permanent. I went with Duress over Sin Collector because I really wanted another card that could help with planeswalkers, enchantments, and artifacts
i could use some help with the mana base though, not sure what it should look like atm.
-4 Orzhov Charm
+2 Doom Blade
+2 Celestial Flare
in the deck i posted the instant removal in the deck IS Orzhov Charm and Devour Flesh. I don't care about the charms other effects, just that it can kill anything without restriction if i pay the life.
you added Obzedat's Aid, but removed connections and alot of the creatures worth getting back? i would rather play another BB or DD then Obzedat's Aid.
this is a control deck, if i can thoughtseize and twiddle my thumbs the first couple tuns i have no problem with that. otherwise your probably playing removal to stay alive.
i've though about replacing Purge the Profane with Sin Collector, but i really like the 2 life PtP gives back. SC is really only good as a road block, and whiffs more than i like.
will try out Renounce the Guilds, i think the deck will lean toward B, so not sure Celestial Flare could be cast t2.
4x Devour Flesh
4x Orzhov Charm
4x Underworld Connections
2x Purge the Profane
2x Merciless Eviction
4x Desecration Demon
4x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
3x Lifebane Zombie
2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
Orzhov Charm will probably become some combination of doom blade/ultimate price, as the life loss in the deck might get out of hand. Surprisingly white brings very little in the form of spot removal.
yeah, id probably md Rolling Temblor over Blasphemous Act. also, why no Thundermaw Hellkite? thundermaw and Devil's Play would give the deck alot of reach. i would also recommend Chandra, Pyromaster for card advantage in a deck like this. maybe something like this
4x Searing Spear
4x Mizzium Mortars
3x Rolling Temblor
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Devil's Play
4x Ash Zealot
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Thundermaw Hellkite
hmm, until rotation brings something else you should stick with Victim of night for removal at least. At common it shouldn't be to hard to get. Unburial Rites can be replaced with Obzedat's Aid. it might even work better, being able to get back a Haunted Plate Mail, Gideon, or Underworld Connections isn't bad.
4x devour Flesh
4x Mutilate
3x Underworld Connections
2x Barter in Blood
2x Haunted Plate Mail
2x Unburial Rites
1x Gideon, Champion of Justice
4x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2x Deathpact Angel
2x Angel of Serenity
13 Swamps
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Vault of the Archangel
in this deck some of your threats are immune to alot of removal, while the creatures don't care about death because they can be brought back from the grave in a number of ways. your sideboard should be alot of anti-control cards like duress, Sin Collector, Appetite for Brains, lifebane zombie, ect...
plate mail also lets Blood Baron survive mizzium mortars, another card i've had issues playing him against. i'll have to test out the platemail, but probably without the token subtheme.
4x Mutilate
3x Underworld Connections
2x Tragic Slip
2x Doom Blade
2x Haunted Plate mail
4x Gloom Surgeon
4x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
3x Lifebane zombie
3x Desecration Demon
2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Plains
2 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Vault of the Archangel
gloom surgeon has made it back md, to many strangleroot geist and other resilient/fast aggro cards being played.
4x Devour Flesh
4x Victim of Night
4x Mutilate
3x Underworld Connections
2x Tragic Slip
2x Doom Blade
CREATURES
4x Lifebane zombie
4x Desecration Demon
4x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2x Sin Collector
2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
12 Swamps
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Plains
2 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Vault of the Archangel
3x Duress
3x Gloom Surgeon
3x Curse of Death's Hold
2x Rest In Peace
2x Pithing Needle
2x Witchbane Orb
trying Sin Collector in the md, though it may become Liliana of the Veil.
4x Orzhov Charm
4x Lingering Souls
4x Mutilate
2x Unburial Rites
2x Staff of Nin
4x Gloom Surgeon
3x Desecration Demon
3x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
1x Bloodgift Demon
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
3 plains
2 Vault of the Archangel
liliana will probably become sorin, lord of innistrad, but i didn't want to crowd the 4cc spot.
im actually surprised that more list don't have Angel of Serenity. I would play her before i ever thought of playing Deathpact Angel.
this is the route im going to try.Im a big fan of Staff of Nin, and Bloodgift Demon isn't to bad with ways to recur him.
4x Devour Flesh
4x Orzhov Charm
4x Mutilate
2x Rakdos's Return
2x Unburial Rites
2x Staff of Nin
1x Gideon, Champion of Justice
4x Vampire Nighthawk
2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
2x Angel of Serenity
1x Bloodgift Demon
4 Godless Shrine
4 Blood Crypt
4 Isolated Chapel
3 Dragonskull Summit
2 Sacred Foundry
i don't see any reason not to play some of the power cards in b/w/r like Rakdos's Return, Unburial Rites, and Angel of Serenity. i would love to fit Dreadbore in here somewhere, but don't want to take a huge amount of damage from my lands. Also might get in the way of running mutilate.