Okay so. After a grueling few years dealing with the decline and death of my father, as well as a divorce, I believe the time is right to pick this primer up again from the depths of limbo. Over the course of the next few days I'm going to be cleaning up the primer like I had planned to do years ago, as well as looking at potential additions to the stack. From Khans to Ixalan is going to take some time, but it's good to be back.
Thank you for the input bud I very much appreciate it, I'm going to attempt to put the card review in the proper section. Still going through a lot of drama with work, school, and caretaking for my father.
So during my first week off school I found a group of kids that were actually playing type four, and they were using custom cards that they had created themselves so that they could customize their own stack to their individual playstyle. I didn't get a chance to see a lot of the cards but one I remember was one that looked sort of neat.
Something card with cool name
Land
Flash.
When this land enters the battlefield, exile all spells from the stack.
This is a pretty basic example but it was kind of neat because they were actually developing stuff based on their own rules. It was pretty sweet, and as soon as I get a good draft up I may put a section on the primer about it.
Small update, I have all of my finals on monday and tuesday so once that is over I can finally have room to do something besides cry over a calculus book. Thanks for the patience guys more updates coming soon.
-Lucasbear
Limdul definitely hit the nail on the head here, if you want a good starting place a garbage rare binder at a card shop or even your own personal binder is a wonderful place. Remember that while my particular percentages are a good general starting place, the build is entirely up to you. I personally don't even run that amount of counterspells in my personal stack, but only because I like to treat magic like a war of attrition instead of a chess game. If you enjoy putting articulate thought into your turn process, maybe a few extra counterspells are a good thing. The beauty of type 4 is that you can make a beautiful creation that reflects you and your playing style. It's just wonderful.
Small Edit: I also feel like a complete and total dick re-reading my previous post; I meant no ill will or anger... It's been a very hard week and i'm really scared of my finals this semester, the classes are ******* impossible (one of my professor makes tests impossible, then grades based on clumps. The high grade for last semester's class was 67, and he gave him an "A".) and I've been losing a lot of sleep over it.
I will take the advice, as I always have, and make sure that it stays blatantly obvious (as if large purple letters and caps lock wasn't enough) that the rules and banned suggestions are up to the discretion of the play group and the owner of each individual stack, however I must ask what is wrong with trying to use this as some type of solidarity for people around the world who want to learn more about type four? Why is it that I can't take this general idea and develop it into something unique? Isn't that the idea of creating a "homebrew" or "variant" format? No one complained when people made changes to commander and started calling it "Tiny Leaders" so is that what it's going to take? Instead of calling it type four I could call it something like "Unlimited Resources" if that would help out.
I can't really in good conscience cave in and say that a higher life total isn't a good idea, most of the creatures in a format like this are 6, 7, and 8 toughness so I can't really say I'm sorry for suggesting it.
The draw rule may just be something to experiment with, I'm trying to stay on top of this thread and keep it updated not only with important changes and information to the stack, I'm trying to develop this into something that might gain a little traction and popularity in the wider community. We all love cubes but not everyone has time to draft, that doesn't mean they should be punished by not getting to play at all. If the rule sounds too complicated or if I experiment with it more and it appears to be more detrimental I'll probably just scrap it entirely.
You know it's insane, for a format that's been considered so buried and dead I'm catching a lot of strife for trying to bring it back into the limelight. Cards and card power levels have grown and changed drastically in the decade since the mothership article was made. It's fitting that the format should be changed as well to accomodate that. Wizards does that for literally every other format.
Small update. After doing some intense play testing I have found that the games tend to be less volatile if both players can agree to a higher starting life total. For purposes of the primer I'm going to make a heavy suggestion of 30 life, as that total made the game interesting enough to where things could get done; but life totals weren't so high that the game distended into boredom or agony. I've also been doing some research into lowering the counterspell total in my stack, so for those of you who are wanting to use my stack as a good starting point, keep that in mind.
One final rule that i've been considering adding to the suggested play rules is that if a person would draw a card while they have no cards in their library they can either choose to concede or take cumulative damage for each card they would draw instead. For example, if someone drew their last card in their library no damage would be taken, if someone cast Ancestral Recall targeting that person then they would take a cumulative point of damage for each drawn card (1+2+3) for a total of six damage. They next time they would draw a card they would still take cumulative damage. I'll think of a more appropriate way to word this later, if I decide that this rule is something that needs to be implemented.
The deck is 56 cards, I think he just forgot to add in a playset of grapeshot to cause the opponent to experience what is known as "hot melting death". And in a more casual setting you can also add something cute like [card]empty the warrens[/cards]. People won't necessarily have sideboards and wont always think to put pyroclasm type cards into their maindecks.
In fact grapeshot would also be more logical here, as he has main deck shred memory, which can transmute and dig it up.
Small bump, nothing further to report, teachers have been piling on tests because they hate me and want me to die but i'm hoping that I can play some next week to find out more possibly broken cards.
Small update: considering adding Chainer, Dementia Master to the suggested banned list. My reasoning for this is because he can apply a lot of sudden pressure to the field at instant speed. Who cares if you win the game with 57 life or 2, as long as you win. That type of play style is something i'm specifically trying to avoid. This is designed to be a fun format, not an "I got mine so **** you" format.
@Xenannigans that's why I always tell people that generally most X spells are a bad thing (although there are a couple like Captain's Maneuver that aren't too powerful and can help to take down a big guy) but to use their own discretion as well as to be a little more creative when they think about firebreathing. In a format like this I generally ban any kind of firebreathing, whether it be Shivan Dragon or a Gerrard's Battle Cry.
@Tev and that's actually a pretty good rule. It also goes to show that each stack can be customized completely at the users discretion. Whereas I tend to shy away from infinite anything, in your stack it would definitely be interesting but not degenerate, as Rise of the hobgoblins could be handled easier because it brings out dudes one time but you can't keep squeezing them out over and over and over again.
I will say that this primer has definitely been one hell of a learning experience as far as my wording choices are concerned lol.
Ah now I had never actually found the article from Eternal Earth, the only one I could ever find was the mothership article that you mentioned from over a decade ago.
As far as your reasoning on my wording choice you very well may be right, I may need to approach it from a much different style. I know that this well never in 150,000 years be sanctioned by WoTC but at the same time I want to bring this into a more revealing light so that if someone were to go 1-3 drop at their first tournament they could squeeze into a strangers type 4 game and know exactly how to play and possibly make new friends and turn something crummy (the drop) into something awesome and fun.
Hello there sir! Thank you very much for the input on my primer I will put these thoughts into heavy consideration. Especially segregating invokers from firebreathing effects. I think I will simply make an addendum as far as the firebreathing clause is concerned and tell people to think outside the box (I.E. using some of those aforementioned cards as examples).
As far as my wording choices are concerned, I try to tell people that this is a casual format and that they are welcome to kind of make up their own rules, but at the same time I have noticed that through all of my searchings through the internet the only thing I haven't found out of a type four article is some kind of solidarity. This is what i'm trying to offer with my primer by telling people that "This is the general way one should play, however feel free to take this base idea and run with it". That way if someone just wants to study the idea of a type four stack without being dropped on their ass I kind of provide a cushion. It's like when EDH first started the rules were that you could only use the dragons from legends, until people started to branch out and explore to develop something truly incredible.
I very well may choose to add those cards to the suggested banned list, as I said I'm still trying to get people to brainstorm with me so that I can hammer out a general set of rules and a general stack that is fun without being just stupid. The only card i'm hesitant to ban is Knollspine Invocation. My logic on this is that with such a small hand size and maximum handsize it pretty much turns into a "cast One With Nothing on yourself, then kill someone". It can be potentially dumb in a small game, but in a multiplayer game it's a good way to give universal hate to yourself.
My reasoning for including dedicated artifact/enchantment removal is because I'm trying to make this primer so that even a brand new player could come to this primer and find literally as much useful information as humanly possible, one of the things that I never understood as a new player (over a decade ago .__.) was how to properly sideboard. Especially against artifacts and enchantments. Most new players only care about clubbing people to death with big beefy creatures, and it's important to show them that there are other ways of winning besides a Ulamog's Crusher stomping around. Being able to kill something like a Door To Nothingness or something is an important thing.
Some of my card choices are currently a little poor, but only because I've been very stressed with school. Horned helm is kind of dinky I admit, I really wanted Sparring Collar in that slot because the ability to give a creature instant speed first strike is super powerful. you can also give a guy instead speed trample with Horned Helm, but I feel like the first strike would be better. Even then some of the cards are just filling up space right now.
Something card with cool name
Land
Flash.
When this land enters the battlefield, exile all spells from the stack.
This is a pretty basic example but it was kind of neat because they were actually developing stuff based on their own rules. It was pretty sweet, and as soon as I get a good draft up I may put a section on the primer about it.
-Lucasbear
Small Edit: I also feel like a complete and total dick re-reading my previous post; I meant no ill will or anger... It's been a very hard week and i'm really scared of my finals this semester, the classes are ******* impossible (one of my professor makes tests impossible, then grades based on clumps. The high grade for last semester's class was 67, and he gave him an "A".) and I've been losing a lot of sleep over it.
I can't really in good conscience cave in and say that a higher life total isn't a good idea, most of the creatures in a format like this are 6, 7, and 8 toughness so I can't really say I'm sorry for suggesting it.
The draw rule may just be something to experiment with, I'm trying to stay on top of this thread and keep it updated not only with important changes and information to the stack, I'm trying to develop this into something that might gain a little traction and popularity in the wider community. We all love cubes but not everyone has time to draft, that doesn't mean they should be punished by not getting to play at all. If the rule sounds too complicated or if I experiment with it more and it appears to be more detrimental I'll probably just scrap it entirely.
You know it's insane, for a format that's been considered so buried and dead I'm catching a lot of strife for trying to bring it back into the limelight. Cards and card power levels have grown and changed drastically in the decade since the mothership article was made. It's fitting that the format should be changed as well to accomodate that. Wizards does that for literally every other format.
One final rule that i've been considering adding to the suggested play rules is that if a person would draw a card while they have no cards in their library they can either choose to concede or take cumulative damage for each card they would draw instead. For example, if someone drew their last card in their library no damage would be taken, if someone cast Ancestral Recall targeting that person then they would take a cumulative point of damage for each drawn card (1+2+3) for a total of six damage. They next time they would draw a card they would still take cumulative damage. I'll think of a more appropriate way to word this later, if I decide that this rule is something that needs to be implemented.
In fact grapeshot would also be more logical here, as he has main deck shred memory, which can transmute and dig it up.
@Tev and that's actually a pretty good rule. It also goes to show that each stack can be customized completely at the users discretion. Whereas I tend to shy away from infinite anything, in your stack it would definitely be interesting but not degenerate, as Rise of the hobgoblins could be handled easier because it brings out dudes one time but you can't keep squeezing them out over and over and over again.
I will say that this primer has definitely been one hell of a learning experience as far as my wording choices are concerned lol.
As far as your reasoning on my wording choice you very well may be right, I may need to approach it from a much different style. I know that this well never in 150,000 years be sanctioned by WoTC but at the same time I want to bring this into a more revealing light so that if someone were to go 1-3 drop at their first tournament they could squeeze into a strangers type 4 game and know exactly how to play and possibly make new friends and turn something crummy (the drop) into something awesome and fun.
As far as my wording choices are concerned, I try to tell people that this is a casual format and that they are welcome to kind of make up their own rules, but at the same time I have noticed that through all of my searchings through the internet the only thing I haven't found out of a type four article is some kind of solidarity. This is what i'm trying to offer with my primer by telling people that "This is the general way one should play, however feel free to take this base idea and run with it". That way if someone just wants to study the idea of a type four stack without being dropped on their ass I kind of provide a cushion. It's like when EDH first started the rules were that you could only use the dragons from legends, until people started to branch out and explore to develop something truly incredible.
I very well may choose to add those cards to the suggested banned list, as I said I'm still trying to get people to brainstorm with me so that I can hammer out a general set of rules and a general stack that is fun without being just stupid. The only card i'm hesitant to ban is Knollspine Invocation. My logic on this is that with such a small hand size and maximum handsize it pretty much turns into a "cast One With Nothing on yourself, then kill someone". It can be potentially dumb in a small game, but in a multiplayer game it's a good way to give universal hate to yourself.
My reasoning for including dedicated artifact/enchantment removal is because I'm trying to make this primer so that even a brand new player could come to this primer and find literally as much useful information as humanly possible, one of the things that I never understood as a new player (over a decade ago .__.) was how to properly sideboard. Especially against artifacts and enchantments. Most new players only care about clubbing people to death with big beefy creatures, and it's important to show them that there are other ways of winning besides a Ulamog's Crusher stomping around. Being able to kill something like a Door To Nothingness or something is an important thing.
Some of my card choices are currently a little poor, but only because I've been very stressed with school. Horned helm is kind of dinky I admit, I really wanted Sparring Collar in that slot because the ability to give a creature instant speed first strike is super powerful. you can also give a guy instead speed trample with Horned Helm, but I feel like the first strike would be better. Even then some of the cards are just filling up space right now.