If a store doesn't honor your code with any excuse besides "We're out of them, sorry" - then you should report them to WotC.
Question is the following excuse valid ?
1) The promo is meant for customers only.
2) The codes have all been redeemed last night.
Context. [ But the codes were ONLY released on steam this morning at 1.40 am. (Means less then 10 hours before a shop opens.) Apparently they were redeemed in 2 hours when the shop actually open. Every single copy was gone. But when I went to other LGS, they stated that they still had all theirs and have not took the packaging out of the DHL box. ]
Extra Tibit.
I have a pretty juicy story to reveal, without naming names. Also, apparently it is illegal in Singapore to take a photo of a shop on public property (Not inside the store but taking a picture of the store sign from outside). I wanted to because I wanted to gather enough details to pass the information on the WOTC asking them with regards to redemption rules.
Then, I went to another LGS further away, and could redeem my codes without even a hassle. They were the 2 of the other shops which i visited which had not even taken the promo packs out of the DHL boxes yet when I arrived. So u can get apparently how early I went. It has been what? less then 15 hours since steam released the codes, and the very first shop said ALL gone. Also, for further context, there are 18 shops which have promos in Singapore which translates to 360 promo packs for ooze! (Singapore is small, very small).
The excuses were the ones he gave above. Let me gather all the facts properly and write up a proper incident report. I will only reveal actual names in the actual report to WOTC to be fair.
Just an indirect question to all. Do the stores get final say on who gets the promo, or is it first come first serve ? Can a LGS reserve it exclusively for only his customers, can he reject people who come in with legit copies of the redemption code from WOTC ?
Okay, anyone who is saying that Ooze prices will drop is quite likely wrong as can be.
Yes, the supply of Oozes is going to grow tremendously. At the same time, so will its demand. Right now, it only sees play in Legacy, and some play left and right in EDH. When Modern and Standard suddenly want copies of it, that demand is going to go nuts.
Yes, but the thing is, you can redeem oozes from STEAM. Why the heck would I pay 30 USD to preorder one when I can ask pay 10 less to my friends and get them a DOTP game at the same time ?
If anything, I expect a dramatic price correction as anyone can make multiple steam accounts for free. Its like a no brainer. I mean seriously ???
Really hard to say what happens to the price of Ooze. I consider myself a bit of an expert on Ooze's price.
My immediate thoughts are:
-Mythic rare
-Proven "Eternal" card
-Goyf and Shaman Killer
-Pre sale price is immediately $30 with potential to go higher depending on how the market responds
-Opens Scavenging Ooze market to Modern, and Standard. Effectively increasing demand by 800-900%
-Short term (less than 2 years) i would think to see a dip in price.
-Long term, This opens ooze up to be in Modern, which means very good long term future value as it will become an instant format staple.
-Price memory: People "see" Ooze as a "$30+" card
Erm, given how much DOTP costs on steam, getting 20 or so of your friends to preorder. Wouldn't that be better ? I mean pay for their games, ask for the promo card. Its a double win situation rite?
Edit: Just in case its true. I am contacting every friend I know on steam and FB and offering to pay for their DOTP game in exchange for the promo card redemption
You should definitely not be buying anything on eBay if you do not understand its dispute/resolution policy. There is absolutely no excuse for not being able to get your money back (assuming the seller isn't scamming you) because you can file a claim with PayPal within 45 days.
If you took too long and are past the timeline, then you may have only one option besides taking a $800 lesson, and that is to call your bank and plead your story and hope they side with you. You might even lose your PayPal account.
I do understand its dispute/resolution policy. I opened my fair share of disputes on ebay with regards to the matter. But, just once, I wanted to give the seller the benefit of the doubt, that he would at least honor what he sells. Obviously such implicit trust is worth dirt in this time and age.
Was I being a fool for being too trusting ? Maybe, but lets see how traders like it when even simple trust cannot be established. Well, seeing as how there should never be trust between a buyer and seller ever again.
I would rather lose my Paypal account, then have to deal with backstabbing sellers on ebay. Let that be a lesson to all, NEVER trust a seller based on his feedback, they just don't care. Why the hell should I as a buyer be getting any grief, considering I paid for BOTH insurance and tracking. What MORE should I do ?
Further update. Turns out Seller did ship out complete playset for another customer and his order has arrived promptly. This means I was intentionally sidelined, even though I was the first customer to pay. No reason was given when i asked why and no response. I do not know what is going on at this point.
I can say I am really angry at this point. Being scammed out of a playset of a card is one thing. Being scammed out of a 1000 dollars is totally unacceptable. Feeling very let down and disappointed is putting it mildly
2 weeks plus in, no word since last week, and 1000 dollars in the hole. No indication item was sent, even though I paid for tracking and insurance. Guess I will just have to file an fraud claim with my bank. First and last time I will ever buy anything on E-bay.
Don't leave any feedback until you actually have the cards (unless they never arrive of course). It doesn't look like he has shipped any other 4x Gatecrash full sets. I can only see feedback for a 1x set. It could just be that he's waiting on a few cards to complete your order, and he sent out another guy's order first. If you're upset about it, then email him about it before leaving feedback.
Good point. I had a similar sentiment too. Just feeling uneasy because it was a large sum of money. I did also like to highlight that I intentionally did not open a resolution case with ebay, giving him the benefit of a doubt, because most of his feedback suggests that he is an honest trader.
Paid for insurance and tracking and was supposed to be shipped by 4 Feb. Had been in contact with him since then. He kept telling me he was unable to fill me order and that he needed another 1 or 2 more weeks to fill mine, due to insufficient cards to fill my order.
What made me really angry was that in his feedback page, I found that there were other GTC orders he had filled. This meant he was giving priority to other customers over me deliberately.
Now I am contemplating whether I should leave negative feedback. Problem is bad feedback might cause him to retaliate by delaying even further, which I am reluctant to do so, putting me in a bind. (Damned if i do, Damned if I don't situation)
Any good advice by experienced ebayers or onliner buyers to handle this matter delicately?
Update: Looks like Turbog73 sent out playsets he sold for many of the other people. He selectively decides to cut me off.
This dead horse is way past beaten. We aren't going to change anyone's minds. Let's just hope that Wizards does not flood the market and make the rarity system obsolete.
Rarity system doesn't have to become obsolete. They just have to follow the Yu Gi Oh way.
Rarities at ultra, super, secret levels etc. Rares now become the new uncommon, Mythic Rare becomes the new Rare. Then for good measure, follow the Yu Gi Oh model for reprints, so everyone can get their copy of a highly sought after card. Meanwhile, WOTC is able to reap the rewards of the Secondary Market pie.
All these make financial business sense and should be a model that is catered to. It already works for Yu Gi Oh, chances are it will work for MTG too. At this point, WOTC's business plan should be to gradually squeeze out the collector market as they contribute the least to their bottomline and instead focus on expanding the myopic crowd (Aka the Standard Crowd, who do not mind the money drops).
Note that I am not dissing any particular sides, but only taking it from a very pragmatic financial point of view. If I were Business Inc, I would definitely take the route where I would make the most money. Focusing on the core crowd whom is generating the largest revenue stream is a no-brainer. Doing otherwise to on a niche but vocal minority is not only counter-productive, but may be detrimental to the base line in the long term.
"It's nothing personal. It is just good business." - Cutler Beckett.
I just get the impression that LandBoySteve is taking the first step down a slippery slope, by constructing a hypothetical scenario where mass reprints eventually lead to the end of Magic. It's not going to happen. Standard is Magic's cash cow, and even if it was the only sanctioned format, Magic would still be going strong. Legacy and Modern are actually pretty recent inventions (2004 and 2011 respectively), and the fact that the game made it through periods of time when either format did not exist gives me hope that it will survive even if every card in Modern or Legacy not on the reserved list becomes $10 or less.
This here are is the main argument. And I agree with you entirely here.
1. Fact: Standard is where WOTC makes the most money.
We can safely assume that:
i. The majority players/buyers of mtg are located here.
ii. WOTC catering to this crowd makes the most sense, as they account for their revenue.
2. Fact: Whenever mtg cards rotate out, their prices will drop, yet they(okie, includes suckers like me) still keep coming back.
We can safely assume that:
i. The majority of players are USED to prices of their cards dropping.
3. Fact: Return to Ravnica had great demand. The sales of this set is through the roof. The reprints of shocklands also helped to contribute to this demand.
We can safely assume that:
i. Some of the majority of players do like to see expensive cards reprinted.
ii. The reprint of the shocklands did not cause the second coming of the end of magic, as some here like to echo to that of the Chronicles.
ii. The exact opposite of what they are trying to predict happened.
iii. If so, this mass reprinting did not have a detrimental effect on this majority of players, causing them to quit.
Based on what I just inferred above, from a business stand point, which crowd should WOTC cater to? The majority who PAYS their salaries should be the no brainer here.
Of course, I do not mean that every card should be reprinted just willy nilly, but reprinting expensive stuff do help to draw players back.
Just based on how shockland reprints have contributed to WOTC's bottomline, leaves me no doubt that in future, they will consider putting in more money reprints, spaced out evenly in every new set to keep players interested. It is after, an effective sales model.
Magic is both a collectible and a game, and there will always be that tension. Anybody who acquires their cards fair and square has the right to determine what will happen to them. Collectors have no obligation to keep cards in circulation. Players have no obligation to, for example, keep cards in good condition.
Obviously the issue of people buying cards for no other reason than to resell them can be annoying, but guess what? That too is inevitable in a scenario where your game is also a commodity that is easily bought and sold second hand.
Both sides just kind of have to get over it. Or not. But when things are out of your control, refusing to accept that and blaming "the other side" for doing things that are legal and serve their enjoyment of the hobby does you no good.
Indeed, which is why the Player side will eventually turn over to the dark side, if pushed far enough by Collectors. If their only interest is to play, a very good knock off will just serve as well for all intentions and purposes. Problem is what happens when the player side demand gets satisfied in this way. ( And, as I have shown in the other thread, the knock offs are really good. Once you sleeve them up, it is no different from the real thing.)
The only one true thing is this. All that secondary market profit is way too huge to ignore. If it is not reined in by WOTC, then it will be the crimminal element which will take over that role. Legal or otherwise, it will happen. It is not a big thing now, but it will have a slow creeping detrimental effect. When sufficient critical mass of forgeries satisfy the Player side, you are looking at an eminent price collapse.
When a card is in a winning deck, people want it. The more people want it, the more the price goes up. If someone didn't get it at the price they wanted they have 3 choices.
1) Accept the new price, purchase/trade for the card
2) Accept the new price, choose not to purchase/trade for the card.
3) Reject the new price, blame others, rant about it.
For whats its worth, the amount of time, effort and energy I've seen by some members to complain on this website, they could have easily used the same amount of time, a little effort and made the money to pay the difference in the price change.
For some of the players who are ranting about not being able to get cards, and complaining about the have and have nots. Are you guys suggesting there should be a limit or quota on cards your allowed to have?
There is a 4th unsavory option. I will not mention what as I already posted on this in another eerily similar thread. But it exists and as long as prices keep rising, people who just want to play will increasingly be tempted to turn to that 4th option. When that happens, good luck to those who insist prices should be kept high.
It might neither be ethical nor legal, but it is happening. You could try to mediate the problem by going around demanding to inspect your fellow player's cards for authenticity but I doubt they will take to that too kindly ... ... .
I have to wonder...will the "loupe test" start to be used at tournaments? Will we start seeing Judge calls for this?
I mean...if the cards are next to indistinguishable, but still illegal...I may be making a mountain out of a molehill, but I could see this becoming "a thing."
I doubt that anyone will actually use the fakes in sanctioned tourneys as that is like risking a perma ban. But when it comes to casual EDH, all bets are off. Problem is, what happens once all that pent up demand somehow gets answered in the wrong way, what then ?
Which is why I stated time and time again: Better to left WOTC rein in all that secondary market profit, and let card prices fall to a suitable level where it is no longer profitable to forge. At least they will be able to put that money to better use.
You can choose to ignore all the unsavory, but then turning a blind eye does not mean it will just go away.
@Mewcatus, that's sick, those fake duals at $15, I'm shocked. Absolutely.
Btw. Thanks for showing off.
It is nothing to brag about. It is but a cautionery tale for those who value certain things too much. The have nots collectors will eventually resort to questionable but very convincing commodities which they can play in sleeves, no one being the wiser.
All that secondary market value WILL be targeted by someone, somewhere eventually. If not WOTC, then the crimminal element. We are literally talking about printing money here people. Crimminals try it all the time with the US Dollar, you expect less when a small piece of card board is so sought after and easier to forge then the former ?
And there is nothing to show off. Only one is real. Showing off fakes is like trying to fence industrial diamonds and costume jewellery, there is nothing worthwhile about it.
It is far too easy to get busted once you put it to the jeweller's loupe test. I am not THAT insane to try to fence it to someone, and risk getting jail time. And when it comes to expensive goods, you can bet people will check for authenticity.
Question is the following excuse valid ?
1) The promo is meant for customers only.
2) The codes have all been redeemed last night.
Context. [ But the codes were ONLY released on steam this morning at 1.40 am. (Means less then 10 hours before a shop opens.) Apparently they were redeemed in 2 hours when the shop actually open. Every single copy was gone. But when I went to other LGS, they stated that they still had all theirs and have not took the packaging out of the DHL box. ]
Extra Tibit.
I have a pretty juicy story to reveal, without naming names. Also, apparently it is illegal in Singapore to take a photo of a shop on public property (Not inside the store but taking a picture of the store sign from outside). I wanted to because I wanted to gather enough details to pass the information on the WOTC asking them with regards to redemption rules.
Then, I went to another LGS further away, and could redeem my codes without even a hassle. They were the 2 of the other shops which i visited which had not even taken the promo packs out of the DHL boxes yet when I arrived. So u can get apparently how early I went. It has been what? less then 15 hours since steam released the codes, and the very first shop said ALL gone. Also, for further context, there are 18 shops which have promos in Singapore which translates to 360 promo packs for ooze! (Singapore is small, very small).
The excuses were the ones he gave above. Let me gather all the facts properly and write up a proper incident report. I will only reveal actual names in the actual report to WOTC to be fair.
Yes, but the thing is, you can redeem oozes from STEAM. Why the heck would I pay 30 USD to preorder one when I can ask pay 10 less to my friends and get them a DOTP game at the same time ?
If anything, I expect a dramatic price correction as anyone can make multiple steam accounts for free. Its like a no brainer. I mean seriously ???
Erm, given how much DOTP costs on steam, getting 20 or so of your friends to preorder. Wouldn't that be better ? I mean pay for their games, ask for the promo card. Its a double win situation rite?
Edit: Just in case its true. I am contacting every friend I know on steam and FB and offering to pay for their DOTP game in exchange for the promo card redemption
I do understand its dispute/resolution policy. I opened my fair share of disputes on ebay with regards to the matter. But, just once, I wanted to give the seller the benefit of the doubt, that he would at least honor what he sells. Obviously such implicit trust is worth dirt in this time and age.
Was I being a fool for being too trusting ? Maybe, but lets see how traders like it when even simple trust cannot be established. Well, seeing as how there should never be trust between a buyer and seller ever again.
I would rather lose my Paypal account, then have to deal with backstabbing sellers on ebay. Let that be a lesson to all, NEVER trust a seller based on his feedback, they just don't care. Why the hell should I as a buyer be getting any grief, considering I paid for BOTH insurance and tracking. What MORE should I do ?
I can say I am really angry at this point. Being scammed out of a playset of a card is one thing. Being scammed out of a 1000 dollars is totally unacceptable. Feeling very let down and disappointed is putting it mildly
2 weeks plus in, no word since last week, and 1000 dollars in the hole. No indication item was sent, even though I paid for tracking and insurance. Guess I will just have to file an fraud claim with my bank. First and last time I will ever buy anything on E-bay.
Good point. I had a similar sentiment too. Just feeling uneasy because it was a large sum of money. I did also like to highlight that I intentionally did not open a resolution case with ebay, giving him the benefit of a doubt, because most of his feedback suggests that he is an honest trader.
Link:
http://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/MTG-GATECRASH-Full-4x-Playset-X4-NM-INCLUDES-RARES-AND-MYTHICS-Magic-PRE-ORDER-/300832947245?pt=Trading_Card_Games_US&hash=item460b0a7c2d
Paid for insurance and tracking and was supposed to be shipped by 4 Feb. Had been in contact with him since then. He kept telling me he was unable to fill me order and that he needed another 1 or 2 more weeks to fill mine, due to insufficient cards to fill my order.
What made me really angry was that in his feedback page, I found that there were other GTC orders he had filled. This meant he was giving priority to other customers over me deliberately.
Now I am contemplating whether I should leave negative feedback. Problem is bad feedback might cause him to retaliate by delaying even further, which I am reluctant to do so, putting me in a bind. (Damned if i do, Damned if I don't situation)
Any good advice by experienced ebayers or onliner buyers to handle this matter delicately?
Update: Looks like Turbog73 sent out playsets he sold for many of the other people. He selectively decides to cut me off.
http://feedback.ebay.com.sg/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=turbog73&&_trksid=p4340.l2560&rt=nc&iid=300832947245&sspagename=VIP:feedback&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller
Rarity system doesn't have to become obsolete. They just have to follow the Yu Gi Oh way.
Rarities at ultra, super, secret levels etc. Rares now become the new uncommon, Mythic Rare becomes the new Rare. Then for good measure, follow the Yu Gi Oh model for reprints, so everyone can get their copy of a highly sought after card. Meanwhile, WOTC is able to reap the rewards of the Secondary Market pie.
All these make financial business sense and should be a model that is catered to. It already works for Yu Gi Oh, chances are it will work for MTG too. At this point, WOTC's business plan should be to gradually squeeze out the collector market as they contribute the least to their bottomline and instead focus on expanding the myopic crowd (Aka the Standard Crowd, who do not mind the money drops).
Note that I am not dissing any particular sides, but only taking it from a very pragmatic financial point of view. If I were Business Inc, I would definitely take the route where I would make the most money. Focusing on the core crowd whom is generating the largest revenue stream is a no-brainer. Doing otherwise to on a niche but vocal minority is not only counter-productive, but may be detrimental to the base line in the long term.
"It's nothing personal. It is just good business." - Cutler Beckett.
This here are is the main argument. And I agree with you entirely here.
1. Fact: Standard is where WOTC makes the most money.
We can safely assume that:
i. The majority players/buyers of mtg are located here.
ii. WOTC catering to this crowd makes the most sense, as they account for their revenue.
2. Fact: Whenever mtg cards rotate out, their prices will drop, yet they(okie, includes suckers like me) still keep coming back.
We can safely assume that:
i. The majority of players are USED to prices of their cards dropping.
3. Fact: Return to Ravnica had great demand. The sales of this set is through the roof. The reprints of shocklands also helped to contribute to this demand.
We can safely assume that:
i. Some of the majority of players do like to see expensive cards reprinted.
ii. The reprint of the shocklands did not cause the second coming of the end of magic, as some here like to echo to that of the Chronicles.
ii. The exact opposite of what they are trying to predict happened.
iii. If so, this mass reprinting did not have a detrimental effect on this majority of players, causing them to quit.
Based on what I just inferred above, from a business stand point, which crowd should WOTC cater to? The majority who PAYS their salaries should be the no brainer here.
Of course, I do not mean that every card should be reprinted just willy nilly, but reprinting expensive stuff do help to draw players back.
Just based on how shockland reprints have contributed to WOTC's bottomline, leaves me no doubt that in future, they will consider putting in more money reprints, spaced out evenly in every new set to keep players interested. It is after, an effective sales model.
Indeed, which is why the Player side will eventually turn over to the dark side, if pushed far enough by Collectors. If their only interest is to play, a very good knock off will just serve as well for all intentions and purposes. Problem is what happens when the player side demand gets satisfied in this way. ( And, as I have shown in the other thread, the knock offs are really good. Once you sleeve them up, it is no different from the real thing.)
The only one true thing is this. All that secondary market profit is way too huge to ignore. If it is not reined in by WOTC, then it will be the crimminal element which will take over that role. Legal or otherwise, it will happen. It is not a big thing now, but it will have a slow creeping detrimental effect. When sufficient critical mass of forgeries satisfy the Player side, you are looking at an eminent price collapse.
There is a 4th unsavory option. I will not mention what as I already posted on this in another eerily similar thread. But it exists and as long as prices keep rising, people who just want to play will increasingly be tempted to turn to that 4th option. When that happens, good luck to those who insist prices should be kept high.
It might neither be ethical nor legal, but it is happening. You could try to mediate the problem by going around demanding to inspect your fellow player's cards for authenticity but I doubt they will take to that too kindly ... ... .
I doubt that anyone will actually use the fakes in sanctioned tourneys as that is like risking a perma ban. But when it comes to casual EDH, all bets are off. Problem is, what happens once all that pent up demand somehow gets answered in the wrong way, what then ?
Which is why I stated time and time again: Better to left WOTC rein in all that secondary market profit, and let card prices fall to a suitable level where it is no longer profitable to forge. At least they will be able to put that money to better use.
You can choose to ignore all the unsavory, but then turning a blind eye does not mean it will just go away.
It is nothing to brag about. It is but a cautionery tale for those who value certain things too much. The have nots collectors will eventually resort to questionable but very convincing commodities which they can play in sleeves, no one being the wiser.
All that secondary market value WILL be targeted by someone, somewhere eventually. If not WOTC, then the crimminal element. We are literally talking about printing money here people. Crimminals try it all the time with the US Dollar, you expect less when a small piece of card board is so sought after and easier to forge then the former ?
And there is nothing to show off. Only one is real. Showing off fakes is like trying to fence industrial diamonds and costume jewellery, there is nothing worthwhile about it.
It is far too easy to get busted once you put it to the jeweller's loupe test. I am not THAT insane to try to fence it to someone, and risk getting jail time. And when it comes to expensive goods, you can bet people will check for authenticity.