Enjoy the moment guys, we're about to make history again.
THIS! Seriously this deck is insane and I am so glad I am having a chance to play it in it's developmental stages.
I played in the 2AM Daily last night to see if I could try my luck 1 more time and I went 1-2 to storm, 2-1 to jund, 2-1 to Twin, and then my last round opponent was only 1-2 so he scooped me into prizes. I don't even know what he was on, but the twin victory felt real good. Thoughtseize did some serious work at keeping his hand resources low, and I mostly was able to remember to Viscera Seer my guys away to keep him from drawing off of electrolyze.
The jund matchup seemed pretty decent, I didn't really even need the combo I just reveillarked him to death games 2-3.
Storm was kind of a toss up, I was able to get Eidolon of Rhetoric game 2 and won from there. Game 3 however he plays two goblin electromancer, and I just have Viscera Seer on board. I try to play pontiff to do the ol' -2/-2 trick, but he echoing truths viscera seer in response and I lose the next turn.
It was my first time using the 4 Viscera Seers, and given that my previous records with more "Standard" variations of the deck were 0-2, 1-2, and 2-2, I feel like this version is the easiest to play.
Finished 4-2 at a local 41 person tournament to come in 9th place to win 1 Marsh Flats, 2 Windswept Heath, and 1 Bloodstained Mire (Onslaught for Mire and Heaths).
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Wasteland
Sideboard:
2 Pyroblast
2 Duress
2 Golgari Charm
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Plague
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Choke
1 Phyrexian Revoker (switched from Pithing Needle at last second and it was definitely a good call, stopping LED in a game against storm)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
I cut Thoughtseize 4 and Dark Confidant 4 to make room for the maindeck Oozes, I think Inquisition is a little better than Hymn, but not all the way better hence 2-1 split. Cut the 24th land for Lightning Bolt 3.
Round 1: Death and Taxes
Game 1: I keep a 6 card hand with fetch + DRS + Dark Confidant. Fetch Swamp play DRS. He goes plains STP. I never draw another land and lose in short order.
Game 2: I get a great hand with plenty of removal, charm his board of Thalia, Mom, Mom, and proceed to bloodbraid into gas while he doesn't recover.
Game 3: I lose to batterskull and jitte after thalia kept me off of my spells for a little while.
0-1
Round 2: Storm
Game 1: He storms me on turn 3.
Game 2: I draw like 9 discard spells in the first couple of turns and win with a goyf.
Game 3: I keep thoughtseize and surgical on the draw. He plays volc pass. I play thoughtseize, he brainstorms in response. I see a hand of Infernal Tutor, Ad Naus, Chrome Mox, LED, Land, Cabal Ritual and something else. I take Infernal Tutor and Surgical it. He Ad Nauseums after a turn or so, and gets down to 5 life with no tendrils. He brainstorms 1 time, preordains 2 times, and casts a bunch of rituals. Storm count is no longer a problem, but he just needs to find the tendrils. He casts a ponder with his last blue mana and finds Tendrils and kills me, hell of a game on his part.
0-2
Round 3: Storm
Game 1: I die on turn 2 having no interactivity
Game 2: I revoker on LED, get a bunch of sweet discard and a fast clock and win.
Game 3: He goes for it early after I mull to 4 and he fizzles. I clock him from 14 to 0 with deathrite and instants/sorceries.
1-2
Round 4: Miracles
Game 1: He entreats me early and I die.
Game 2: I choke him on turn 3 and he doesn't recover.
Game 3: I choke him on turn 3 and he doesn't recover.
2-2
Round 5: Maverick
Game 1: I get punishing fire lock, scavening ooze, goyf, sylvan library and liliana on board and he scoops.
Game 2: I Golgari charm his board of dryad arbor and thalia, I establish a superior board state and evenually grind him out of cards using hymn and bloodbraid elf.
3-2
Round 6: Maverick
Game 1: I stomp him by removing every creature he plays and wastelanding all of his lands.
Game 2: He stomps me by equipping sword of fire and Ice to a Knight that I can't answer.
Game 3: I punishing lock him out of the game. I have to decay a Rest in Peace somewhere in there, but eventually I pull ahead through punishing fire and Liliana.
4-2
Multiple Oozes were awesome in the maverick matches. I was hoping to face Cruise decks to see how I did without Chains, but I never encountered any. The deck still feels fine, and I think if anything it has improved since people have been playing decks like Maverick and UWR Blade more frequently now. Didn't really miss Hymn 2-3 and inquisition 1-2 were actually really good all day. Felt good to win prizes with a "dead" deck, and if anything i was rewarded for "going with what I knew/felt comfortable with". Maybe all those really good magic players who keep telling me that are on to something
As far as burn, I think it just might be that deck that trolls us everytime. Oh well, at least it feels better than losing to True Name Nemesis. I have been playing 1 Jitte in board and 2 Ooze main lately, with decent results (also only 3 Thoughtseize, 2 Inquisition, 1 Hymn, 4 Lili, 3 Bolt, 3 PF, 3 Decay, 1 Maelstrom, 1 Sylvan, 3 Dark Confidant and 4 of everything else).
I thought perhaps you had to play Chains these days to be any good but as it turns out Punishing Fire & Liliana are still pretty solid in this meta. I switched away from Jund because of UR, but now with all the UWR control decks/Blade decks Jund is becoming much more attractive.
I have found it to be challenging as well. I tried testing a few version of this deck against the Treasure Cruise decks, and the only configuration that seemed to have a good game 1 was old school non-punishing jund (like the one Pat Cox played at GP Denver), but with 4 Bolts and 4 Decays.
The Punishing Fire engine was too slow to beat the explosiveness of the deck. It didn't matter that they were FoWing your Punishing Fires because they just refill their hand shortly thereafter with Treasure Cruise and counter your next one too, or erk out just enough damage in the time they buy for themselves.
Perhaps I am approaching these tempo matchups incorrectly, but it was not looking good for the stock punishing fire version from my testing. Perhaps it is time to finally shell out for that Chains of Mephistopheles (but even that gets countered most of the time).
Just went 3-0 in matches at my local store. I split for 1st with the other undefeated dude.
Round : Tin Fins
Game 1 I thought seize him turn 1 revealing entomb entomb shallow grave shallow grave and some lands. I lose in short order to griselbrand and storm 8 tendrils. Bring in pyroblasts, surgicals, choke, duresses, pithing needle, and scavenging ooze.
Game 2 I get to duress him and take cabal therapy amongst land and cantrips. I progress with goyfs and he digs but cant find anything.
Game 3 I keep 5 lands surgical goyf. He goes probe, draw, pass. I play land and pass. He cantrips and passes. I play goyf and pass. His turn 3, still nothing. I play DRS and keep attacking. He doesnt find anything in time and I have active DRS goyf bloodbraid lili and a surgical in hand.
Round 2 Storm
Game 1 I thoughtseize his mull to six which has no land, and take his lotus petal. He draws a lotus petal, ponders and passes. I play goyf and pass, he draws basic island and brainstorms. I play DRS and thoughtseize him again taking cabal ritual. By the time I play goyf and attack him down to 11 he goes for it on his next turn and taps out for ad nauseum. Goes to 2 and doesn't find the lotus petal he needs.
Game 2 he plays a turn 2 rabblemaster to my board of lands. I dont have removal anymore, but I did side in golg charm and e plagues. I play bob and he just swings me down with goblins. I draw a bolt, which I left in because of ad nauseum, and get rid of rabblemaster. I play drs, and despite being at 4 with bob in play I stay alive through drs gaining during upkeeps long enough for me to overwhelm him.
Round 3 UR delver
Game 1 I overwhelm him with early large goyf.
Game 2 he submerges a goyf in response to my fetch, I lose to a jace that I cant answer and young pyromaner.
Game 3 I tempo him out with drs hymn and multiple bloodbraid into relevant cards.
Has anyone tested against any decks with Treasure Cruise in them yet?
I had a friend of mine use some of my decks with 2 Treasure Cruises proxied in there while I was practicing with Jund. Here is what I have to report:
Reanimator: Ended up being too slow for a deck that has the ability to run us over very fast. The deck wants to combo out in turn
Sneak and Show: I don't run intuition in my decklist which my friend said would be the superior choice or experimenting with Dig Through Time.
TES: He ended up liking this card when he wasn't using the PIF plan and had to goldfish until turn 3.
Shardless BUG: He hated it in this deck, it competes with DRS and Goyf. If he played BUG Delver it would also compete with a tombstalker, a card he won't play for the same reasons.
High Tide: He liked it here, the deck is inherently slower and didn't care about what was in the yard.
I don't like the card that much since the meta I play in is extremely hositle to grave hate since 3 players play dredge and I was branded as "that reanimator guy" my first day playing there. I still think standstill and ancestral visions are the scarier cards vs treasure cruise.
Thanks for letting me know. I played against a very interesting RUGb Midrange deck the other day. It was playing stifles, DRS, goyf, Clique, Jace, Chain lightning + bolts, Cantrips etc.
It was able to reliably fill its yard and fire off the cruise on turn 4-5, and I found it difficult to deal with the extra advantage that it gave to the deck. Post board with pyroblast and ooze it was easier to deal with, but I tested 3 matches and lost 2 of them.
There are subtleties to DRS activations that we might need to think about just in case people start playing this card in high numbers.
There is a really good feature match from 2 years ago between Ross Merriam and Patrick Sullivan, Maverick vs Burn. Watching that game and analyzing the play between the two players can show exactly what kind of draws/plays you have to make against burn, and the kinds of plays that you have to stay away from.
The most climactic and amazing part about that match was that Ross could have won if only he had left up his Wasteland at the very end of the game rather than tapping out to destroy the sulfuric vortex w/QPM.
Yeah, It could just be the blue players in my meta dont know how to play around it. If I start losing games to U decks after resolving Choke I will reconsider, but it works like a charm for me now. What do your sideboards look like? I forgot to mention Golgari Charm vs Sneak.
Glad to see you doing these articles again spooky! I love trying to get my friends into legacy and this series is a great way to do it without breaking the bank!
The damage is certainly non-negligible and most of the time miracles won't have a 2 anyways.
THIS! Seriously this deck is insane and I am so glad I am having a chance to play it in it's developmental stages.
I played in the 2AM Daily last night to see if I could try my luck 1 more time and I went 1-2 to storm, 2-1 to jund, 2-1 to Twin, and then my last round opponent was only 1-2 so he scooped me into prizes. I don't even know what he was on, but the twin victory felt real good. Thoughtseize did some serious work at keeping his hand resources low, and I mostly was able to remember to Viscera Seer my guys away to keep him from drawing off of electrolyze.
The jund matchup seemed pretty decent, I didn't really even need the combo I just reveillarked him to death games 2-3.
Storm was kind of a toss up, I was able to get Eidolon of Rhetoric game 2 and won from there. Game 3 however he plays two goblin electromancer, and I just have Viscera Seer on board. I try to play pontiff to do the ol' -2/-2 trick, but he echoing truths viscera seer in response and I lose the next turn.
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
2 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Viscera Seer
3 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Spellskite
4 Kitchen Finks
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Wall of Roots
1 Voice of Resurgence
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Chord of Calling
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
4 Windswept Heath
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Gavony Township
2 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
3 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Aven Mindcensor
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sin Collector
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Path to Exile
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Reveillark
It was my first time using the 4 Viscera Seers, and given that my previous records with more "Standard" variations of the deck were 0-2, 1-2, and 2-2, I feel like this version is the easiest to play.
Here is my list:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Dark Confidant
3 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Hymn to Tourach
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Punishing Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sylvan Library
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Wasteland
Sideboard:
2 Pyroblast
2 Duress
2 Golgari Charm
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Plague
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Choke
1 Phyrexian Revoker (switched from Pithing Needle at last second and it was definitely a good call, stopping LED in a game against storm)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
I cut Thoughtseize 4 and Dark Confidant 4 to make room for the maindeck Oozes, I think Inquisition is a little better than Hymn, but not all the way better hence 2-1 split. Cut the 24th land for Lightning Bolt 3.
Round 1: Death and Taxes
Game 1: I keep a 6 card hand with fetch + DRS + Dark Confidant. Fetch Swamp play DRS. He goes plains STP. I never draw another land and lose in short order.
Game 2: I get a great hand with plenty of removal, charm his board of Thalia, Mom, Mom, and proceed to bloodbraid into gas while he doesn't recover.
Game 3: I lose to batterskull and jitte after thalia kept me off of my spells for a little while.
0-1
Round 2: Storm
Game 1: He storms me on turn 3.
Game 2: I draw like 9 discard spells in the first couple of turns and win with a goyf.
Game 3: I keep thoughtseize and surgical on the draw. He plays volc pass. I play thoughtseize, he brainstorms in response. I see a hand of Infernal Tutor, Ad Naus, Chrome Mox, LED, Land, Cabal Ritual and something else. I take Infernal Tutor and Surgical it. He Ad Nauseums after a turn or so, and gets down to 5 life with no tendrils. He brainstorms 1 time, preordains 2 times, and casts a bunch of rituals. Storm count is no longer a problem, but he just needs to find the tendrils. He casts a ponder with his last blue mana and finds Tendrils and kills me, hell of a game on his part.
0-2
Round 3: Storm
Game 1: I die on turn 2 having no interactivity
Game 2: I revoker on LED, get a bunch of sweet discard and a fast clock and win.
Game 3: He goes for it early after I mull to 4 and he fizzles. I clock him from 14 to 0 with deathrite and instants/sorceries.
1-2
Round 4: Miracles
Game 1: He entreats me early and I die.
Game 2: I choke him on turn 3 and he doesn't recover.
Game 3: I choke him on turn 3 and he doesn't recover.
2-2
Round 5: Maverick
Game 1: I get punishing fire lock, scavening ooze, goyf, sylvan library and liliana on board and he scoops.
Game 2: I Golgari charm his board of dryad arbor and thalia, I establish a superior board state and evenually grind him out of cards using hymn and bloodbraid elf.
3-2
Round 6: Maverick
Game 1: I stomp him by removing every creature he plays and wastelanding all of his lands.
Game 2: He stomps me by equipping sword of fire and Ice to a Knight that I can't answer.
Game 3: I punishing lock him out of the game. I have to decay a Rest in Peace somewhere in there, but eventually I pull ahead through punishing fire and Liliana.
4-2
Multiple Oozes were awesome in the maverick matches. I was hoping to face Cruise decks to see how I did without Chains, but I never encountered any. The deck still feels fine, and I think if anything it has improved since people have been playing decks like Maverick and UWR Blade more frequently now. Didn't really miss Hymn 2-3 and inquisition 1-2 were actually really good all day. Felt good to win prizes with a "dead" deck, and if anything i was rewarded for "going with what I knew/felt comfortable with". Maybe all those really good magic players who keep telling me that are on to something
As far as burn, I think it just might be that deck that trolls us everytime. Oh well, at least it feels better than losing to True Name Nemesis. I have been playing 1 Jitte in board and 2 Ooze main lately, with decent results (also only 3 Thoughtseize, 2 Inquisition, 1 Hymn, 4 Lili, 3 Bolt, 3 PF, 3 Decay, 1 Maelstrom, 1 Sylvan, 3 Dark Confidant and 4 of everything else).
I thought perhaps you had to play Chains these days to be any good but as it turns out Punishing Fire & Liliana are still pretty solid in this meta. I switched away from Jund because of UR, but now with all the UWR control decks/Blade decks Jund is becoming much more attractive.
Here is my Junk build:
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
4 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Primeval Titan
Spells
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Golgari Charm
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Karakas
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Choke
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
2 Toxic Deluge
Still working out kinks but so far so good. Playing in a medium size tourny this weekend and we will see how it does.
The Punishing Fire engine was too slow to beat the explosiveness of the deck. It didn't matter that they were FoWing your Punishing Fires because they just refill their hand shortly thereafter with Treasure Cruise and counter your next one too, or erk out just enough damage in the time they buy for themselves.
Perhaps I am approaching these tempo matchups incorrectly, but it was not looking good for the stock punishing fire version from my testing. Perhaps it is time to finally shell out for that Chains of Mephistopheles (but even that gets countered most of the time).
Round : Tin Fins
Game 1 I thought seize him turn 1 revealing entomb entomb shallow grave shallow grave and some lands. I lose in short order to griselbrand and storm 8 tendrils. Bring in pyroblasts, surgicals, choke, duresses, pithing needle, and scavenging ooze.
Game 2 I get to duress him and take cabal therapy amongst land and cantrips. I progress with goyfs and he digs but cant find anything.
Game 3 I keep 5 lands surgical goyf. He goes probe, draw, pass. I play land and pass. He cantrips and passes. I play goyf and pass. His turn 3, still nothing. I play DRS and keep attacking. He doesnt find anything in time and I have active DRS goyf bloodbraid lili and a surgical in hand.
Round 2 Storm
Game 1 I thoughtseize his mull to six which has no land, and take his lotus petal. He draws a lotus petal, ponders and passes. I play goyf and pass, he draws basic island and brainstorms. I play DRS and thoughtseize him again taking cabal ritual. By the time I play goyf and attack him down to 11 he goes for it on his next turn and taps out for ad nauseum. Goes to 2 and doesn't find the lotus petal he needs.
Game 2 he plays a turn 2 rabblemaster to my board of lands. I dont have removal anymore, but I did side in golg charm and e plagues. I play bob and he just swings me down with goblins. I draw a bolt, which I left in because of ad nauseum, and get rid of rabblemaster. I play drs, and despite being at 4 with bob in play I stay alive through drs gaining during upkeeps long enough for me to overwhelm him.
Round 3 UR delver
Game 1 I overwhelm him with early large goyf.
Game 2 he submerges a goyf in response to my fetch, I lose to a jace that I cant answer and young pyromaner.
Game 3 I tempo him out with drs hymn and multiple bloodbraid into relevant cards.
Thanks for letting me know. I played against a very interesting RUGb Midrange deck the other day. It was playing stifles, DRS, goyf, Clique, Jace, Chain lightning + bolts, Cantrips etc.
It was able to reliably fill its yard and fire off the cruise on turn 4-5, and I found it difficult to deal with the extra advantage that it gave to the deck. Post board with pyroblast and ooze it was easier to deal with, but I tested 3 matches and lost 2 of them.
There are subtleties to DRS activations that we might need to think about just in case people start playing this card in high numbers.
The most climactic and amazing part about that match was that Ross could have won if only he had left up his Wasteland at the very end of the game rather than tapping out to destroy the sulfuric vortex w/QPM.
Here is a link to that video.