I think VidarThor has a good point here. I have changed this deck so many times in the past two days it's crazy, and it just refuses to work properly.
The more I balance it out, the more I draw what I balanced out to draw less of...but even if it was working appropriately, I think such an idea is just trying to do too much.
On paper, the idea of only having to hit an opponent once with an infect creature, and then just proliferate to the moon seems like a good idea...but in practice it seems to be rather difficult. With an aggro infect deck, you would just be slapping down creature after creature and swinging for the stars and overrun them with buffed creatures and trample, but this doesn't have the ability to do that consistently. You would think 'Oh that's no big deal, you just hit them once with Blighted Agent or whatever and then proliferate from there!' and well...yeah, proliferation is slow my friends.
Having it happen only once a turn is way too slow for it to matter, and having to wait until Turn 3 or Turn 4 for that is also too slow on top of already being slow. Most consistent ways of proliferation are either higher in CMC, or require a sacrifice. Waiting that long before having your pieces in place to proliferate multiple times a turn is too slow, and having consistent recursion also requires too many pieces.
It feels like Infect really only works well if the combo guarantees it in one big burst to take them from zero to dead, or it's slapping creatures onto the field and having them systematically slap your opponent.
I'm I'm finally working on an Infect Deck with Atraxa, Praetors' Voice as the commander, and I currently have all the means of proliferation and every single infect creature that isn't red. Now of course that's not a good idea, because some are just better than others, and I need room for other spells of course, but I would like some outside advice on what I should cut.
I'm just going to post the list of creatures here:
I also have Melira, Sylvok Outcast in here as one of two ways to prevent being infected in case someone decides to steal my creatures, and I am also running Birthing Pod so while I have some ideas on what to cut, I need to have a decently balanced CMC rate.
I got some ideas on what to cut, but I wanted some suggestions to either confirm or deny my thoughts as well as add to them.
EDIT: Just so you guys know the theme of the deck, it is to kill them as quickly as possible with infect. I'm sure their are better ways (having a different commander, focusing on equipment, pumping creatures, etc) than what I am going for right now, but my general idea is the people I tend to play with nowadays either blow up threatening creatures immediately or after one attack, and relying on one method or combo (or even two or three) seems to not work in this meta: you need multiple backup plans, or you have to run a little slow and unseen until you just molly-whop them out of the blue.
My thought process was 'Hey, I'll be lucky to hit them with one or two attacks and get them to like 3-5 infect, and then be on the defensive for the entire rest of the game. Instead of just running aggro infect or combo infect, I'll mix a bit of both and have reliable proliferation to then win the game for me in case things go south.'
EDIT: Including current Deck List here for those to see.
I really like the idea of building a Taigam deck, but I feel like I'll work on Malfegor first and make a more aggressive deck, then use Taigam for more stax.
So it turns out that before I took a break from all the cardboard crack for either my third or fourth time, I was apparently working on an EDH deck titled 'Nice Storm of Chaos!' Puzzled as to what this could be, I jumped into Deckbox.org to find that I was apparently working on a WUBRG EDH deck that had no true win-con, but was just meant to screw over everyone and leave the entire board in an irreparable state regardless if it puts myself into a state of which I cannot recover or win...so long as everyone else is in the same boat for as long as possible.
Being random and chaotic in nature, this fueled the spark to complete this deck idea and produce the most obnoxious, most annoying, most chaotic EDH deck possible. I feel like WUBRG isn;t really the way to go, mainly due to the inconsistencies in getting the colors you need as well as probably having a better (and more chaos-producing) Commander than Child of Alara or Progenitus (also, I feel like Green has the least to offer this kind of deck, most of it delving into Grixis territory).
Basically, I'm looking for any card suggestions to help extend the madness (not the mechanic, eww :P) and make it able to apply to literally any game, deck, or playstyle so that no matter what I can make people groan when I whip out this deck. Not only am I open to general card suggests, but I'm highly open to Commander suggestions, as I have little time to research cards nowadays and there's always that chance that I glanced over something amazing.
TL;DR I wanna make a deck that screws with everything and everyone very well and very consistently by just making things go haywire while also being a little cruel.
In case you guys weren't understanding the memo, here's some cards that may clue you in:
Hey everyone, look at this guy getting back into MTG and just having all the questions because his mind is riddled with how video games work and can't seem to reclaim his lost knowledge of the days when he desired to be a Judge. Just to be safe, I'm making sure my question is specific and straight-forward so as not to be taken the wrong way in the future by mods.
Question Time!: With these two in play under your control, at your draw step Sylvan allows you to draw two extra cards, then choose which of the three to keep unless you wax off your chest hair per extra card. Abundance replaces draw effects with revealing from your library until you reveal either a land or non-land card, depending on your choice, and it says nothing about not applying this effect to your draw for turn. My question is if I still understand how MTG interactions work: Wouldn't you be able to use Abundance's replacement effect from each card drawn off Sylvan Library? Also, you would still have to pluck out your nose hairs for each extra card you wanted to keep, right?
I feel like this is a fantastic way of trying to fix your draws as it were, but feel free to let me know if I'm wrong in any regard. Oddly enough, with as much Mono-G EDH as I've played, this has never come up.
10/1/2009 If you somehow activate Magosi's third and fourth abilities during the same turn, the effects will cancel each other out. The turn you skip is the next one you would take, which is the turn created by Magosi's fourth ability. It doesn't matter in which order the abilities resolved.
So, no, you can't get infinite turns with only this card. The "bounce" cost on the 4th ability and the fact that it enters tapped also limits the number of times you can activate the 4th ability in the same turn.
Is there some interaction or approximate steps your playgroup is taking or thinking of that is leading them to believe this card can generate infinite turns? I assume there are a number of other cards included in the setup?
Once and for all, is it ever possible at all to go infinite turns with this as the turn-granting source?
It doesn't matter whether it's outlandish or impractical, just need to know if it's possible to finally settle this question with some folks I know in person.
My brain had to wrap itself around the fact that even though Haste is only really useful on the turn you cast the creature, the keyword/term itself doesn't go away on creatures unless it specifically says 'until end of turn', ergo new Odric can give Haste to any newcomers so long as a creature on the field has it before you declare start of combat (IE Rakdos Shred-Freak)
So my question is about Suspend, specifically on creatures with it.
Suspend reads like this: "Rather than cast this card from your hand, you may pay X and exile it with X time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When the last is removed, cast it without paying its mana cost. It has haste."
It doesn't say 'It has Haste until end of turn' but just 'it has Haste.' So my question is, does a suspended creature who hits play from Suspend become like Shred-Freak in the sense that it would always have the keyword/term Haste on it and then trigger at start of combat via Odric, or does it not work like that for some reason?
If it works like I think it does, then Riftmarked Knight is an auto-include in this deck I'm working on.
Cards in question: Hazezon Tamar, any card that makes a clone of target permanent/creature.
Situations: 1. Active player controls Hazezon and proceeds to make a clone of him. 2. Active player controls Hazezon, non-active player clones Hazezon. The clone enters the battlefield, but is then removed from play by another effect.
Questions: 1. When a clone of Hazezon comes into play under the control of someone who already controls Hazezon, it still makes Sand Warrior tokens, correct? That happens before state-based effects? 2. After choosing which Hazezon to sacrifice due to state-based effects, doesn't that still trigger his second ability, thus removing all Sand Warriors from play?
There is a page on this forum dedicated to infinite combos, and it lists Loyal Retainers with Saffi as if it worked like Sun Titan.
I was questioning whether I was wrong stating that I thought it didn't work, but since I'm right that should be removed from the list, or at least moved to it's own section of the White/Green spoiler.
However, they also teamed-up Saffi with Loyal Retainers, and I don't see this actually working out.
You have to sac Saffi to bring back Retainers, and then you have to sac Retainers to bring back Saffi, and Retainers comes back from her ability. There is no place for another sac outlet here, unless I'm missing something, the only thing I see going infinite with this here is something like Genesis Chamber.
My friend and I have been playing, testing and fine-tuning EDH decks for about three years now, and Wizards keeps throwing out stuff that is just so awesome and fun to build with and try and break that I don't see us quitting anytime soon.
Insert Commander 2014 Edition, the edition that focused on strengthening mono-colored EDH decks (and did a pretty good job in my opinion) and also introduced us to the crazy idea of having a planeswalker as a Commander(with crazy planeswalkers with this static like Teferi, Temporal Archmage, and crazy cards like Chain Veil, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Sarkhan Unbroken, Atarka's Command and etcetera, it's no wonder a certain Legendary Creature was all but forgotten about...only not by my friend!
Enter Feldon of the Third Path! This guy has more potential than I could have ever thought possible, and he brings out the possibility of a true mono-red combo-based EDH deck outside of using Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.
Let's just admire this guy for a bit, checking out his rules text:
"{2}{R}, {T}: Put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of target creature card in your graveyard, except it's an artifact in addition to its other types. It gains haste. Sacrifice it at the beginning of the next end step."
Now other than the fact that this guy looks like Santa Claus (or maybe Santa's real name is Feldon, who really knows?) most people took one glance at this guy's spoiler and then immediately turned their attention to Nahiri, the Lithomancer.
A 4CMC mono-red legendary creature that taps to have you and an opponent blow up a creature.
While I know she's not the greatest (or there would be decks with her everywhere), I really like the certain ways you can abuse her, and I'm working on trying to build a Mono-Red Control EDH with her at the head.
The more I balance it out, the more I draw what I balanced out to draw less of...but even if it was working appropriately, I think such an idea is just trying to do too much.
On paper, the idea of only having to hit an opponent once with an infect creature, and then just proliferate to the moon seems like a good idea...but in practice it seems to be rather difficult. With an aggro infect deck, you would just be slapping down creature after creature and swinging for the stars and overrun them with buffed creatures and trample, but this doesn't have the ability to do that consistently. You would think 'Oh that's no big deal, you just hit them once with Blighted Agent or whatever and then proliferate from there!' and well...yeah, proliferation is slow my friends.
Having it happen only once a turn is way too slow for it to matter, and having to wait until Turn 3 or Turn 4 for that is also too slow on top of already being slow. Most consistent ways of proliferation are either higher in CMC, or require a sacrifice. Waiting that long before having your pieces in place to proliferate multiple times a turn is too slow, and having consistent recursion also requires too many pieces.
It feels like Infect really only works well if the combo guarantees it in one big burst to take them from zero to dead, or it's slapping creatures onto the field and having them systematically slap your opponent.
I'm just going to post the list of creatures here:
I also have Melira, Sylvok Outcast in here as one of two ways to prevent being infected in case someone decides to steal my creatures, and I am also running Birthing Pod so while I have some ideas on what to cut, I need to have a decently balanced CMC rate.
I got some ideas on what to cut, but I wanted some suggestions to either confirm or deny my thoughts as well as add to them.
EDIT: Just so you guys know the theme of the deck, it is to kill them as quickly as possible with infect. I'm sure their are better ways (having a different commander, focusing on equipment, pumping creatures, etc) than what I am going for right now, but my general idea is the people I tend to play with nowadays either blow up threatening creatures immediately or after one attack, and relying on one method or combo (or even two or three) seems to not work in this meta: you need multiple backup plans, or you have to run a little slow and unseen until you just molly-whop them out of the blue.
My thought process was 'Hey, I'll be lucky to hit them with one or two attacks and get them to like 3-5 infect, and then be on the defensive for the entire rest of the game. Instead of just running aggro infect or combo infect, I'll mix a bit of both and have reliable proliferation to then win the game for me in case things go south.'
EDIT: Including current Deck List here for those to see.
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
// 11 Artifact
1 Contagion Clasp
1 Contagion Engine
1 Throne of Geth
1 Animation Module
1 Mimic Vat
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Conjurer's Closet
1 Strionic Resonator
1 Tamiyo's Journal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
// 25 Creature
1 Core Prowler
1 Plaguemaw Beast
1 Thrummingbird
1 Viral Drake
1 Blackcleave Goblin
1 Blight Mamba
1 Blighted Agent
1 Corpse Cur
1 Flesh-Eater Imp
1 Ichor Rats
1 Ichorclaw Myr
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Necropede
1 Phyrexian Crusader
1 Plague Myr
1 Plague Stinger
1 Priests of Norn
1 Septic Rats
1 Tine Shrike
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Whispering Specter
1 Swamp Mosquito
1 Suq'Ata Assassin
1 Flensermite
1 Lost Leonin
1 Inexorable Tide
1 Phyrexian Unlife
1 Survival of the Fittest
// 7 Instant
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Fuel for the Cause
1 Grim Affliction
1 Steady Progress
// 38 Land
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Command Tower
1 Mana Confluence
1 City of Brass
1 Bayou
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
1 Scrubland
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Concealed Courtyard
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Botanical Sanctum
1 Temple of Deceit
1 Temple of Enlightenment
1 Temple of Malady
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Temple of Plenty
1 Temple of Silence
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
// 14 Sorcery
1 Cruel Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Grim Tutor
1 Rhystic Tutor
1 Sylvan Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Personal Tutor
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Caress of Phyrexia
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Spread the Sickness
1 Tezzeret's Gambit
1 Fabricate
1 Farseek
I really like the idea of building a Taigam deck, but I feel like I'll work on Malfegor first and make a more aggressive deck, then use Taigam for more stax.
Thanks for the ideas guys!
It's okay when you do it to others, but not when they do it to you.
So it turns out that before I took a break from all the cardboard crack for either my third or fourth time, I was apparently working on an EDH deck titled 'Nice Storm of Chaos!' Puzzled as to what this could be, I jumped into Deckbox.org to find that I was apparently working on a WUBRG EDH deck that had no true win-con, but was just meant to screw over everyone and leave the entire board in an irreparable state regardless if it puts myself into a state of which I cannot recover or win...so long as everyone else is in the same boat for as long as possible.
Being random and chaotic in nature, this fueled the spark to complete this deck idea and produce the most obnoxious, most annoying, most chaotic EDH deck possible. I feel like WUBRG isn;t really the way to go, mainly due to the inconsistencies in getting the colors you need as well as probably having a better (and more chaos-producing) Commander than Child of Alara or Progenitus (also, I feel like Green has the least to offer this kind of deck, most of it delving into Grixis territory).
Basically, I'm looking for any card suggestions to help extend the madness (not the mechanic, eww :P) and make it able to apply to literally any game, deck, or playstyle so that no matter what I can make people groan when I whip out this deck. Not only am I open to general card suggests, but I'm highly open to Commander suggestions, as I have little time to research cards nowadays and there's always that chance that I glanced over something amazing.
TL;DR I wanna make a deck that screws with everything and everyone very well and very consistently by just making things go haywire while also being a little cruel.
In case you guys weren't understanding the memo, here's some cards that may clue you in:
So then, straight to the point.
Cards Involved: Sylvan Library and Abundance
Question Time!: With these two in play under your control, at your draw step Sylvan allows you to draw two extra cards, then choose which of the three to keep unless you wax off your chest hair per extra card. Abundance replaces draw effects with revealing from your library until you reveal either a land or non-land card, depending on your choice, and it says nothing about not applying this effect to your draw for turn. My question is if I still understand how MTG interactions work: Wouldn't you be able to use Abundance's replacement effect from each card drawn off Sylvan Library? Also, you would still have to pluck out your nose hairs for each extra card you wanted to keep, right?
I feel like this is a fantastic way of trying to fix your draws as it were, but feel free to let me know if I'm wrong in any regard. Oddly enough, with as much Mono-G EDH as I've played, this has never come up.
Amulet of Vigor, Deserted Temple, Rings of Brighthearth and a total of 3U that you can have consistently and reliably.
Once and for all, is it ever possible at all to go infinite turns with this as the turn-granting source?
It doesn't matter whether it's outlandish or impractical, just need to know if it's possible to finally settle this question with some folks I know in person.
My brain had to wrap itself around the fact that even though Haste is only really useful on the turn you cast the creature, the keyword/term itself doesn't go away on creatures unless it specifically says 'until end of turn', ergo new Odric can give Haste to any newcomers so long as a creature on the field has it before you declare start of combat (IE Rakdos Shred-Freak)
So my question is about Suspend, specifically on creatures with it.
Suspend reads like this: "Rather than cast this card from your hand, you may pay X and exile it with X time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When the last is removed, cast it without paying its mana cost. It has haste."
It doesn't say 'It has Haste until end of turn' but just 'it has Haste.' So my question is, does a suspended creature who hits play from Suspend become like Shred-Freak in the sense that it would always have the keyword/term Haste on it and then trigger at start of combat via Odric, or does it not work like that for some reason?
If it works like I think it does, then Riftmarked Knight is an auto-include in this deck I'm working on.
Situations: 1. Active player controls Hazezon and proceeds to make a clone of him. 2. Active player controls Hazezon, non-active player clones Hazezon. The clone enters the battlefield, but is then removed from play by another effect.
Questions: 1. When a clone of Hazezon comes into play under the control of someone who already controls Hazezon, it still makes Sand Warrior tokens, correct? That happens before state-based effects? 2. After choosing which Hazezon to sacrifice due to state-based effects, doesn't that still trigger his second ability, thus removing all Sand Warriors from play?
There is a page on this forum dedicated to infinite combos, and it lists Loyal Retainers with Saffi as if it worked like Sun Titan.
I was questioning whether I was wrong stating that I thought it didn't work, but since I'm right that should be removed from the list, or at least moved to it's own section of the White/Green spoiler.
However, they also teamed-up Saffi with Loyal Retainers, and I don't see this actually working out.
You have to sac Saffi to bring back Retainers, and then you have to sac Retainers to bring back Saffi, and Retainers comes back from her ability. There is no place for another sac outlet here, unless I'm missing something, the only thing I see going infinite with this here is something like Genesis Chamber.
Insert Commander 2014 Edition, the edition that focused on strengthening mono-colored EDH decks (and did a pretty good job in my opinion) and also introduced us to the crazy idea of having a planeswalker as a Commander(with crazy planeswalkers with this static like Teferi, Temporal Archmage, and crazy cards like Chain Veil, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Sarkhan Unbroken, Atarka's Command and etcetera, it's no wonder a certain Legendary Creature was all but forgotten about...only not by my friend!
Enter Feldon of the Third Path! This guy has more potential than I could have ever thought possible, and he brings out the possibility of a true mono-red combo-based EDH deck outside of using Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.
Let's just admire this guy for a bit, checking out his rules text:
Now other than the fact that this guy looks like Santa Claus (or maybe Santa's real name is Feldon, who really knows?) most people took one glance at this guy's spoiler and then immediately turned their attention to Nahiri, the Lithomancer.
1 Feldon of the Third Path
Creatures (26)
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Chancellor of the Forge
1 Duplicant
1 Fanatic of Mogis
1 Faultgrinder
1 Goblin Welder
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Inferno Titan
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Keldon Champion
1 Keldon Vandals
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Mindclaw Shaman
1 Molten Primordial
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Pardic Miner
1 Priest of Urabrask
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Spitebellows
1 Tyrant of Discord
1 Viashino Racketeer
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Chrome Mox
1 Citanul Flute
1 Cloud Key
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Fire Diamond
1 Illusionist's Bracers
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Myr Turbine
1 Null Brooch
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Planar Portal
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Ruby Medallion
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Sol Ring
1 Staff of Domination
1 Summoning Station
1 Sundial of the Infinite
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Faithless Looting
1 Gamble
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Tormenting Voice
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Wild Guess
1 Winds of Change
1 Ancient Tomb
35 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Instants (2)
1 Chaos Warp
1 Shatter
Planeswalkers (2)
1 Daretti, Scrap Savant
1 Koth of the Hammer
Enchantments (1)
1 Blood Moon
Situation: Activate Diaochan, choosing Knight Exemplar. Opponent says I cannot because Exemplar is Pro-Humans due to Riders of Gavony.
Question: Since Diaochan herself does not target Exemplar, is her activated ability still good?
Sub-Question: If creature is Pro-Red, would Diaochan's activated ability still be good?
A 4CMC mono-red legendary creature that taps to have you and an opponent blow up a creature.
While I know she's not the greatest (or there would be decks with her everywhere), I really like the certain ways you can abuse her, and I'm working on trying to build a Mono-Red Control EDH with her at the head.
I would appreciate any ideas or advice.