Urborg ToY is fine as people can still tap for their colors. enchanted Evening is not allowed due to it changing lands. The rest are perfect acceptable.
WTF? That makes no sense. Urborg changes lands but is allowed because they still get top tap for their colors. Enchanted Evening changes lands but isn't allowed because...?
Because they can be destroyed easier (see below).
Here is a response I got:
“But with messing with people’s lands, it is a constant rehash of the same old same old:
‘Okay, I can’t do LD but if I turn them into all creatures and Toxic Deluge?’
‘Okay, but what if I cast Mycosynth Lattice then Vandalblast for overload?’
‘Okay, but what if I don’t kill the lands but just some of them by making people sac some lands?’
It’s never ending. If your goal is to hope that people scoop because of how unfun you are making the game, then your views and ours don’t align”
For the record, I have not made games unfun. I’ve never played a MLD card or locks with them. I have done two 3 minute combos. (Before this conversation, I wanted to play Living Plane with Linvala, Keeper of Silence to lock their lands.)
It does bother me when people set house rules to make thier play style better. With that in mind and in an attempt to follow the no land destruction rule what if you let them have the lands but change the mana with Ritual of Subdual or Naked Singularity (both great with solemnity. contamination is another classic for this, or just stasis lock them.
Anything that changes what an opponent lands tap for is banned. Along with changing other people’s lands into creatures, artifacts, enchantments.
However, Statis is ok.
You seem really intent on making them accept the STAX way of life to the point where aside from arguing with it, you're trying to find workarounds to still achieve the resource denial that they so revile. I really don't think it's worth it. It's ultimately going to be frustrating for everyone involved.
Pleas don’t get me wrong - it’s that I am intent on finishing stax, it is just that I started to build it when she was previewed. This issue came up this week.
I suspect the people in this particular meta will think Tainted Aether is an unfair card. Which would make me want to play it against them in B/U stax along with Copy Enchantment and the Copy Enchantment variant from the new commander set.
Judging by your posts so far I'd say you really should find another group. They're probably going to be a lot happier without you >_>'
Like, I'm sorry but when you're under-equipped for a group you wander into and want to stay, you improve your deck and build around their meta....But when you try to force yourself on a group's meta that's not cool. It's even worse when you try to build in a way to spite their house rules because it's being like a child annoying everyone around them in an attempt to get their way. There is nothing positive to be gained from force. If you cannot agree to the ground rules that a group has set in stone, no matter how ridiculous they may seem (And even as a casual scrub battlecruiser myself I find these rules to be silly), then just leave them be so that both sides can be happy.
Do you feel I am doing something wrong coming into the group? I am not trying to change everything or force people. I am having difficulty being able to step back and see what is going on, sorry.
All my decks coming into the group were fine (except gold bordered cards). I only made a combo deck because 2 others had it and everyone was fine with it (I always wanted to try and thought this would be a good time).
I do not have an issue abiding by their rules as I seem to be playing more at the store with randoms / semi-regular people that I only know for a few hours once a week.
While hilarious, I can't say I approve of this solution as it just leads to animosity and bitterness. It's something I'd probably do though (i.e. don't do it).
100% agree. I always at least make room for 6+ basic lands. I always emphasis, if the occasion arises, what is good and bad deck contruction. Can’t tell you how often there is a lack of single target/mass removal there is. Can’t remember what was said exactly, but it was somewhat around that people should be able to play their play style and not build around the meta (meta meaning to build to counter other people’s decks).
Play Jund Lands (Windgrace) with Tainted AEther. You're not the one blowing up any lands, you're allowing them to choose if they will sacrifice their own, or not play creatures. Meanwhile you're reaping a one way ticket to #ValueTown all day with Windgrace. Combine with other walkers and go with superfriends as a win con to largely negate the Tainted AEther you're built around.
I spoke to a level-headed guy in the group who I run cards by to make sure their ok. We spoke about Words of Wind after going back and forth, it came to the conclusion that more than likely, it would affect lands. So no go. We also spoke about Tainted AEther: he said two things: he thinks either people would not like it and tell you to remove it. And that "people might get scared because of the 'or land' part but on the other hand, it does give people an option." We even brought up Decimate. People in the past stayed away from that card because it said 'and target land.' Funny enough, one person played it and destroyed his own land because there were no utility lands on the field.
Can you send me the link of that deck to look at? Thank you for your comments.
To the OP. There are no right awnsers here. In the end there are you as an activaty who play, and it is up to you what you want to do.
Persobally I think combo decks, or decks with comboes are dull. What ever you have been doing for the last 20/60 mins has nothing to say once somebody comboes up.
Objectivly the strongest thing you can do in commander is comboing. I would try to solve the problem outside of the game. Simuntaniusly I would build a combo deck in protest to show how stupid their rules are. I would recomend mizziks, it is cheap and easy to combo on a budget.
I also like peoole using proxies (bar mtg tourbaments) as I do not want your echobomic situation to take away from the fun.
I do not understand why magus of the balance is off limits. Balance, it is not. Blood noon if perfectly fine. It is not Ruination. Even Armagedon should be fine, although I personally find it tedius. Your friend just sounds a bit dim. Although talking about what kind of game you want is important.
PS: If you do not like the idea of playing combo decka I woukd recomend playing a stacks kind of deck. The only thing combo decks hate more is Possabilaty Storm, but I asume they ban those as well.
I agree - no right answer. Many ways to go about this (go with the rules, go spike, change to combo, group hug, chaos).
I never had a 'pure' combo deck per se. What I mean by this is tutor for the pieces and go for infinite storm/mana/damage. Most decks of mine need to assemble different parts to go off, but on their own, are still very strong. Example: In Xenagos, God of Revels, I would need Aggravated Assault + Savage Ventmaw with haste or a turn, dodge removal, and be able to attack everyone in order to win.
And I understand where you are coming from with game ending combos. Lots of times, we would be doing fair things...a swing here, a removal there....then someone tutors and combos (turn 5ish). I have built Kess, Dissident Mage combo storm. Works well most of the time, and if I am not dealt with, I just gain value until I go off. I can't/won't do Mizzix of the Izmagnus as that is what that guy plays...
They don't allow proxies so power level creep is kept low (to some extent). It's funny though because the one guy has a larger spending budget (usually gets 2-3 boxes of each set to crack packs). I have the largest array of cards and more expensive cards only because I have been aggressively trading and have played for 5-8 years more then them.
Magus is banned because of what it what it could potentially do. But mainly that prior to the printing, they set a blanket rule and if any card falls within it, it will be banned. Magus falls under it because it removes more than 1 land. To them, Blood Moon prevents people from playing. That and you can't bounce lands (correct: I just asked in chat and the ruler says single target bounce on utility lands is ok). It's not that their dim...it, to me, feels more like them getting away from spike type games/decks. But in the same breath, combo is fine in everyone's book.
I have no problem with combo, I do not play it often as I rotate through decks. However, I am in the process of building Muldrotha, the Gravetide enchantress stax. Funny how Stasis, Back to Basics, and Static Orb are fine (to a point). But red is not in the commander
Lol. It feels like just play crazy to have fun within my own rules. I do like this idea, group hug slug fest, and chaos. Thoughts on finishing Muldrotha stax?
Build a 5 color Lands deck. There’s a thread for it I can link you to if you’d like. Be sure to exclude anything that would save you from LD. Abuse their system and make them understand why blanket rules do not work and stipulations are important.
I don’t know your financial situation, but if you can afford the normal for a gold bordered card, in response to them telling you not to use the card, pull up your phone and buy the normal right in front of them (or fake buy it) and tell them that that silly rule is only hurting them since you can easily get what you need.
Solve problems with spite. Turn the rules against the players.
It’s funny you say that...I was thinking about a lands deck. Yes, please PM me the link. Much appreciated.
I’m fine with money (even with buying a new home Friday and having a 1 year old), I am still able to set a small amount aside over time. I have been HEAVILY trading on Pucatrade and been getting pretty entire decks. I recently was able to do an international trade (Italy) for an Italian Invoke Prejudice and Italian In the Eye of Chaos. AND after 3 months of gathering points, I was finally able to get The Tabernacle at Pendergrass Vale.
Yes, I have shown in the Facebook chat that I picked up a cheap Survival of the Fittest via an EBay snipe. Funny thing is they din’t Like foreign cards.....I still have them and play with them and don’t care for the comments.
As some people mentioned earlier, is it worth it to butt heads and conflict. With that being said, I had to build a combo to fight 2 other combo decks. And I feel if I bring stax in, it might bump things up another level. But yes, a counter deck seems to be a solution.
Blood Moon (and Back to Basics, for that matter) is one I really can't find objectionable because, frankly, you're doing it to yourself. My solution has always been to make half my lands nonbasic; if I'm playing white or green, getting one basic forest or plains (or an appropriate other permanent) is just enough to end the eclipse.
I find a way to fit 6 or 7 basics in even my 3c decks to play around Moons (and Tainted Pact, naitch). If I can do that in 3c no green and not have mana issues...then anyone can, especially with green.
100% agree. I always at least make room for 6+ basic lands. I always emphasis, if the occasion arises, what is good and bad deck contruction. Can’t tell you how often there is a lack of single target/mass removal there is. Can’t remember what was said exactly, but it was somewhat around that people should be able to play their play style and not build around the meta (meta meaning to build to counter other people’s decks).
Personally, I think its far too soon to cast judgement on Magus of the Balance. Lets look historically at all of the different Magus cards. Essentially EVERY magus that imitates a spell has been nowhere near as impactful as the spell that they are imitating.
This new Magus is no different. Actual Balance costs 2 mana and while the Magus also costs two mana, it costs 5 mana to activate its ability and it needs to tap to do that as well. If you are trying to fire that all off in one go that means needing 5WW and needing haste to speed it up (or flashing it in and using it sooner). LOTS of the power of balance comes from its low cost and the fact that it comes from nowhere. Given the high activation cost and the fact that its a slow activate creature, it means that your opponents have a lot more time before it can be activated as well as your own land count probably not being some punishing low count that the original balance spell allows.
Ultimately, this comes back a little to how I HATE local meta rules. I hate them because its incredibly hard to organize a playgroup and vote in such a way that it feels like everyone has a say. I totally understand that the rules committee wants to encourage this but realistically..... its absolutely a nightmare to organize and implement in a way that doesn't make things feel like someone is being some sort of rules tyrant. It's why I have never been a fan of deviating from the actual RC banned list.
My opinion is you need to tell this guy to back off and see the card tested at least. I am in agreement with the RC that Balance has no place in being played in commander but I am not convinced that any of the power level of the card translates to the new magus (without at least first seeing it myself). As a super random side note.... why is Blood Moon off limits in your meta? I could understand things like Ruination but Blood Moon????
Magi with a t ability (and all these spell magi fit that) suffer from one problem: They're creatures, and as such (without help) need to wait a whole turn, and as creatures, they...die to removal. Yeah, I hate saying that, but in a format where it's common for multiple wraths to be played, "dies to removal" is a valid criticism.
I also take issue with the idea that land destruction is inherently bad. Iflandsproducemorethanonemana, those lands must be allowed blow up. It must be played properly, no "I'm losing, let's Armageddon!" (Playing Jokulhaups or Cataclysm when you're losing is a good play, though. But Armageddon and its Chinese cousin? Not so viable.)
Blood Moon (and Back to Basics, for that matter) is one I really can't find objectionable because, frankly, you're doing it to yourself. My solution has always been to make half my lands nonbasic; if I'm playing white or green, getting one basic forest or plains (or an appropriate other permanent) is just enough to end the eclipse.
And while we're on this topic, seriously, I play Stax a lot, and if I don't get the cards I need, I'm screwed. If I do get the cards I need, but the other players start neutralizing them, I'm still screwed. But you know? It's not Timmy and his angels, wurms, and dragons that win when things don't go well. It's the combo player. Any meta that house-bans Blood Moon can lose to Hermit Druid a hundred times before they realize ya dun güfd.
And of course I'm just chuckling because "fair and balanced" never was either.
I’ll hit your points separately.
Magi: it being a creature, costing X mana to play and activate, and you need to tap it was not and will not be taken into consideration. It is the fact of what it does and how it goes against the playgroups rules. I know right?
Single target LD is perfectly fine. It took me some time to convince them to allow it. The main kicker was from the latest set and it’s flip lands. Decimate is fine if you are using it on an utility land.
Back to Basics and Stasis are fine. And yes, even in my 3c decks, I run 8-10 basics.
I am building Muldrotha, the Gravetide stax. Almost done.do you mind if I run by you my list? I understand what you mean about pieces as I play Enchantress and Kess.
And yes, there were 3 back-to-back-to-back games where everyone but one person was playing was doing fair plays until the combo player went off. Usually what happens unless myself or someone else is Blue heavy.
Why do you know me so well? after all these years lol.
But when you are right, you are right. There is no alternative unless I go to the next local store that also does EDH on Thursdays (but it is hit-or-miss).
Perhaps I should make a Kaalia deck and show how bad a cheated in Master of Cruelties can be lol.
Aggro Vamps and Edric have been pulling me the Wins. Along with an untouched Sigarda HoH enhantress deck. Purphorous gets hated out early and if I won a few games, no matter what commander I or others are playing, threat assessment goes to whomever won the most games so far lol
Becsuse I've had the same issues finding like minded playgroups. Either the group that everyone is on 4c flash hulk and derevi stax, or the ones that literally try to equip their greatsword on their craw wurm and freak out at even the innocuous Dwarven Miner.
Don't Kaalia this group. I suspect they will be the types to insta ban her for *reasons*. Edgar works. Edric too. Hell if any forms of LD is off limits, go Sliver Overlord or 5c Hermit Druid (do people even still play that? Or is it all just Tazri food chain now?)
Make 'em pay for their mistakes. Do they love their boundless realms? Then start shoving Acidic Soil into every deck.
No one is playing stax, and the one person who did, took it a part asap after one game. No one is doing broken things other than the combo guy (Ghave, Mizzix, Animar).
I won’t Kaalia. Just joking around. They won’t ban her because the other combo decks, even though people do not like it and target it, won’t ban it. Those combos would certainly work. I built kess storm and 50/50 works unless I get hated on early because I’m getting value.
Boundless Realms and other ramp cards are seen in all of the G(x) decks. Thanks for that idea.
All of the above are in Jund, too, so you can pretend to be a Lord Windgrace land matters deck or something
In my Purphoros, God of the Forge deck, I run pretty much all of those for red (ankh, PoP, Zo-Zu) and what was shown below: manabarbs, war’s toll, mana web.
You'd need an anthem effect for creatures to keep your lands alive.....
Urborg ToY is fine as people can still tap for their colors. enchanted Evening is not allowed due to it changing lands. The rest are perfect acceptable.
Because they can be destroyed easier (see below).
Here is a response I got:
For the record, I have not made games unfun. I’ve never played a MLD card or locks with them. I have done two 3 minute combos. (Before this conversation, I wanted to play Living Plane with Linvala, Keeper of Silence to lock their lands.)
Anything that changes what an opponent lands tap for is banned. Along with changing other people’s lands into creatures, artifacts, enchantments.
However, Statis is ok.
Pleas don’t get me wrong - it’s that I am intent on finishing stax, it is just that I started to build it when she was previewed. This issue came up this week.
I am almost done with BUG Muldrotha, the Gravetide stax. See my comment above about Tainted AEther
Do you feel I am doing something wrong coming into the group? I am not trying to change everything or force people. I am having difficulty being able to step back and see what is going on, sorry.
All my decks coming into the group were fine (except gold bordered cards). I only made a combo deck because 2 others had it and everyone was fine with it (I always wanted to try and thought this would be a good time).
I do not have an issue abiding by their rules as I seem to be playing more at the store with randoms / semi-regular people that I only know for a few hours once a week.
I spoke to a level-headed guy in the group who I run cards by to make sure their ok. We spoke about Words of Wind after going back and forth, it came to the conclusion that more than likely, it would affect lands. So no go. We also spoke about Tainted AEther: he said two things: he thinks either people would not like it and tell you to remove it. And that "people might get scared because of the 'or land' part but on the other hand, it does give people an option." We even brought up Decimate. People in the past stayed away from that card because it said 'and target land.' Funny enough, one person played it and destroyed his own land because there were no utility lands on the field.
Can you send me the link of that deck to look at? Thank you for your comments.
I agree - no right answer. Many ways to go about this (go with the rules, go spike, change to combo, group hug, chaos).
I never had a 'pure' combo deck per se. What I mean by this is tutor for the pieces and go for infinite storm/mana/damage. Most decks of mine need to assemble different parts to go off, but on their own, are still very strong. Example: In Xenagos, God of Revels, I would need Aggravated Assault + Savage Ventmaw with haste or a turn, dodge removal, and be able to attack everyone in order to win.
And I understand where you are coming from with game ending combos. Lots of times, we would be doing fair things...a swing here, a removal there....then someone tutors and combos (turn 5ish). I have built Kess, Dissident Mage combo storm. Works well most of the time, and if I am not dealt with, I just gain value until I go off. I can't/won't do Mizzix of the Izmagnus as that is what that guy plays...
They don't allow proxies so power level creep is kept low (to some extent). It's funny though because the one guy has a larger spending budget (usually gets 2-3 boxes of each set to crack packs). I have the largest array of cards and more expensive cards only because I have been aggressively trading and have played for 5-8 years more then them.
Magus is banned because of what it what it could potentially do. But mainly that prior to the printing, they set a blanket rule and if any card falls within it, it will be banned. Magus falls under it because it removes more than 1 land. To them, Blood Moon prevents people from playing. That and you can't bounce lands (correct: I just asked in chat and the ruler says single target bounce on utility lands is ok). It's not that their dim...it, to me, feels more like them getting away from spike type games/decks. But in the same breath, combo is fine in everyone's book.
I have no problem with combo, I do not play it often as I rotate through decks. However, I am in the process of building Muldrotha, the Gravetide enchantress stax. Funny how Stasis, Back to Basics, and Static Orb are fine (to a point). But red is not in the commander
Lol. It feels like just play crazy to have fun within my own rules. I do like this idea, group hug slug fest, and chaos. Thoughts on finishing Muldrotha stax?
It’s funny you say that...I was thinking about a lands deck. Yes, please PM me the link. Much appreciated.
I’m fine with money (even with buying a new home Friday and having a 1 year old), I am still able to set a small amount aside over time. I have been HEAVILY trading on Pucatrade and been getting pretty entire decks. I recently was able to do an international trade (Italy) for an Italian Invoke Prejudice and Italian In the Eye of Chaos. AND after 3 months of gathering points, I was finally able to get The Tabernacle at Pendergrass Vale.
Yes, I have shown in the Facebook chat that I picked up a cheap Survival of the Fittest via an EBay snipe. Funny thing is they din’t Like foreign cards.....I still have them and play with them and don’t care for the comments.
As some people mentioned earlier, is it worth it to butt heads and conflict. With that being said, I had to build a combo to fight 2 other combo decks. And I feel if I bring stax in, it might bump things up another level. But yes, a counter deck seems to be a solution.
100% agree. I always at least make room for 6+ basic lands. I always emphasis, if the occasion arises, what is good and bad deck contruction. Can’t tell you how often there is a lack of single target/mass removal there is. Can’t remember what was said exactly, but it was somewhat around that people should be able to play their play style and not build around the meta (meta meaning to build to counter other people’s decks).
I’ll hit your points separately.
Magi: it being a creature, costing X mana to play and activate, and you need to tap it was not and will not be taken into consideration. It is the fact of what it does and how it goes against the playgroups rules. I know right?
Single target LD is perfectly fine. It took me some time to convince them to allow it. The main kicker was from the latest set and it’s flip lands. Decimate is fine if you are using it on an utility land.
Back to Basics and Stasis are fine. And yes, even in my 3c decks, I run 8-10 basics.
I am building Muldrotha, the Gravetide stax. Almost done.do you mind if I run by you my list? I understand what you mean about pieces as I play Enchantress and Kess.
And yes, there were 3 back-to-back-to-back games where everyone but one person was playing was doing fair plays until the combo player went off. Usually what happens unless myself or someone else is Blue heavy.
No one is playing stax, and the one person who did, took it a part asap after one game. No one is doing broken things other than the combo guy (Ghave, Mizzix, Animar).
I won’t Kaalia. Just joking around. They won’t ban her because the other combo decks, even though people do not like it and target it, won’t ban it. Those combos would certainly work. I built kess storm and 50/50 works unless I get hated on early because I’m getting value.
Boundless Realms and other ramp cards are seen in all of the G(x) decks. Thanks for that idea.
storm cauldron: banned, can’t bounce other people’s lands.
quicksilver fountain: banned, can’t change what lands tap for.
In my Purphoros, God of the Forge deck, I run pretty much all of those for red (ankh, PoP, Zo-Zu) and what was shown below: manabarbs, war’s toll, mana web.
Urborg ToY is fine as people can still tap for their colors. enchanted Evening is not allowed due to it changing lands. The rest are perfect acceptable.