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    posted a message on The reason for no cycles of trilands
    New cards devaluing old cards does not mean WotC loses money. The new cards hold value and drive sales after all.

    Unless you are talking about printing these in lower rarity (more supply of mana base). In that case this is not news. WotC keeps the best lands at rare to bump how much money people needs to spend in the game.



    Posted in: Magic General
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    posted a message on [ELD] House of Candy
    Quote from Wraithe »
    Quote from italofoca »
    Why on earth is a candy house a forest ? ******* awful flavor.


    The gingerbread house is from Hansel and Gretel.

    The whole story is about kids getting abandoned then lost within a forest. Their stepmother decides to take them out in the forest and then leave them there, but Hansel, the brother, initially leaves a trail of white pebbles he'd collected after overhearing the parents agree to abandon the children the previous night, the father reluctantly pushed into it by the stepmother so they don't have to pay to feed them anymore, the family is so poor.

    The kids come back, and their stepmother locks them up so they can't collect more pebbles, but Hansel instead leaves a trail of breadcrumbs from the meager bread meal they had and he saved when their stepmom does the same thing to them. Birds, however, had eaten the breadcrumbs so they are lost deep in the woods.

    They wander for DAYS, starving. Eventually, they happen upon a house made of gingerbread and candy within the forest, which they start to eat ravenously, then the whole witch thing happens, yadda yadda, cannibal, oven, kill the witch, escape, etc.

    The story has always been about a gingerbread house quite specifically hidden deep within a FOREST. It's kind of the entire reason the kids get lost and stumble on it to begin with, because if it weren't a dense forest, they would have made their way home pretty easily.

    Therefore, having the gingerbread house tied to a forest fits the flavor of the fairy tale it's highlighting perfectly. Just perfectly. It's a hugely important part of the story.


    Well I know the house is in a forest. The house being "tied" to a forest would be it producing green mana or it being a green artifact instead.

    The house has the subtype forest. Which should mean it *IS* a forest. The same way shortsword is a equipment or goblin king is a goblin.

    This is slopy flavor. Only way this would remotely work is the house being not a real place but an illusion or trap created by the forest, whos the real entity here.

    Yes, you need crack to swallow this one.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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    posted a message on [ELD] Eric Froehlich - 4 previews
    I wish adventures had a better baseline instead of relying on something like this...
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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    posted a message on [ELD] the professors preview (tolarian community college) - Realm-Cloaked Giant
    Quote from BlackWaltz3 »
    Quote from Ryperior74 »
    Quote from BlackWaltz3 »
    Card is bad. Having a wrath adventure mode is excellent but the creature is unplayable level bad. Do people just run this for the wrath and not cast the creature unless desperate?


    Not even close to unplayable this will be spotted in edh decks for sure

    Not even giant tribal as the focus


    No doubt. EDH would be a good format for this. I tend to evaluate with a focus on standard and cube as these are the formats I play most. The adventure mechanic effectively makes every card with it 2 cards within 1. Generally if the spell half of that is a reasonably costed wrath as this is, the creature half doesn't need to be that impressive for the card to be good...but a vigilance 7/7 for 5WW isn't impressive at all. No evasion, no resilience, nothing a control finisher wants. Does it make the card unplayable? No. As I said, the creature is what is unplayable unless it is the only play you have.


    A bad free card is a great card.

    Noone wants to play 2W 1/1 lifelink creature but Legion's Landing was a staple during all of its tenure. 1U draw a card is beyond unplayable but Radical Idea saw its share of play. 3GG 4/4 is very underwhelming but growth chamber guardian is quite good. There is a bunch of other examples.

    Imo this card is only marginaly playable because the wrath is slightly on the bad side (5 mana + minor downside). But anyway, its a wrath outside of BW and plays very well with threeferi. I think this is a great card for WU control.

    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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    posted a message on [ELD] Malditos nerd preview - blacklance paragon
    I would feel great to pull this.

    Its either a good 2drop + combat trick or removal w/ lifegain. And its in a relevant tribe ! Good package.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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    posted a message on [ELD] Another Amazonian preview - henge walker

    You are forgetting Pauper is now a sanctioned & supported format. It will happen sooner than you think. Don't settle for crap commons, it lets WotC off the hook.


    Pauper being a sanctioned format does not mean every single common will be designed with that format in mind. Commons are designed with limited in mind as well as being filler cards for kitchen table. If all commons are amazing it's unlikely that acquiring a few extra cards will improve your deck.

    Again, I find it strange that a payoff common is the place they decided to go safe but them I had not considered blue/white in general has artifacts matters theme. Making this generally too good would hurt that archetype.



    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 3

    posted a message on [ELD] Forbes article introducing Oko, the Fey Shapeshifter (no card spoiler)
    It's estimated that about ~3.5% of the population in the US is gay (broad sense).

    If 1 out of 30 characters are gay, they are just being accurate and nothing more. Gay people exist, making characters based on demographics that exist is not "pushing an agenda", catering to a group or anything like that.

    NOT making then on the other hand would be an agenda - miss representing demographics to cater to one belief system.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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    posted a message on Next set is called "Throne of Eldraine"
    Quote from Gutterstorm »
    Quote from italofoca »
    If we look at the cast of legendary characters of both Innistrad blocks I think not a single one is meant to be the equivalent of anything (I could be wrong).


    Olivia Voldaren's design name was literally Dracula, Grimgrin, Corpse-Born is a pretty close approximation of Frankenstien's monster and Geralf his Frankenstien.


    Her design name was Dracula but the character is very different. Her looks, personality, role in the setting and sex are different. I think the only strong connection between the characters (aside from both being vampires) is that her signature abilities in her original card is to turn others in vampire and control then which alludes to Stoker's romance.

    Grimgrin is no more Frankenstein monster then any other skaab, who are reanimated armies and working industry rather then a singular oddity. The setting makes no allusion to Frankenstein story other then the idea of reanimated corpses stitched together. This part of Innistrad setting is more about stitchers vs. ghoulcallers, a dispute between the newer blue form of necromancy and the traditional black necromancy. That's a completely different story or background.


    Quote from user_938036 »
    Quote from italofoca »
    I think one of the reasons why Innistrad does not feel like a parody is because they didn't make mtg equivalents of well known characters. For example, Invisible Stalker is not a legendary creature, implying there are many other invisible rogues running around Nephalia. Also a invisible man does not feel so out of place in mtg anyway, so it ends being not too much on the nose.

    If we look at the cast of legendary characters of both Innistrad blocks I think not a single one is meant to be the equivalent of anything (I could be wrong). Theros blocks however have stuff like King Macar, the Gold-Cursed and Triad of Fates.
    This may sound rude and misguided but from what you're saying here and others have said before it really sounds like your saying "The more stuff I recognize the less I like it." Which due to years of scientific studies we know is the opposite of what people actually feel meaning this is probably more accurately "The less I understand the cooler I think it makes me to like it." I'm not going to look that deeply into Theros and Innistrad and count the number of "direct" translations vs "indirect" but I assume its a lot closer than anyone here realizes.


    I will just ignore your pretension you can re-frame someone's arguments based on what scientific studies show about the average person. Non-referenced scientific studies, nonetheless. Arguing that would derail the thread too much and honestly it's not point I feel like I even need to argue against, it should be obvious for everyone the level of bull***** in this.

    Just to make it clear, what I'm saying is, being too loyal to the original source is not a good thing, for a few reasons.

    1. What mtg player base have in common is that they like mtg. What they don't have in common ? Love for settings other then mtg. Heavily investing in external settings is a serious risk to alienate part of the player base that don't care about that setting or strongly reject it. As means to not alienate part of the player base they have to hedge the risk and keep things within the realm of familiarity and thus use mtg's own tropes rather then going full strength in "external" tropes. This is probably among the reasons why they chose the slightly odd mix of Arthurian myth with fairy tales.

    2. Too much fidelity to external material makes the setting too self-aware. When they construct those trope heavy planes the reason why things are there are players expectations, instead of canonical or creative reasons. It makes the setting as authentic and organic as theme parks. It's quite unbelievable how certain planes are so narrow artistically and aesthetically and the situation gets sillier the more they follow real world references by the book.

    3. The more fidelity to external material more it will feel out of place within mtg whole narrative. I get it adaptive works like Disney is very popular but I think mtg is not the place for that. The idea of adapted characters sharing the same universe as Urza, the Gatewatch, the Eldrazi and Phyrexia is just crazy and looks like a fanfic.

    Just to be clear I think WotC so far haven't "crossed" the line for me, not even in Theros which is the most theme-heavy plane so far. I think Theros in some moments were dangerously close and for me the plane is worse for that but not enough for me to dislike it.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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    posted a message on Next set is called "Throne of Eldraine"
    Quote from 5colors »
    [quote from="5colors »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/812547-next-set-is-called-throne-of-eldraine?comment=323"]Arthur Conquering Rome


    I think its simply Inninstrad just lesser know with the source material as a story and the themes where more known as it being a genre instead of a mythology. And a number of thing you talking about horror tropes being broad and not having a single source are also true for many fairy tales tropes I listed above. As I said above a number of stuff we have seen has gone with way with Eldraine.


    I think one of the reasons why Innistrad does not feel like a parody is because they didn't make mtg equivalents of well known characters. For example, Invisible Stalker is not a legendary creature, implying there are many other invisible rogues running around Nephalia. Also a invisible man does not feel so out of place in mtg anyway, so it ends being not too much on the nose.

    If we look at the cast of legendary characters of both Innistrad blocks I think not a single one is meant to be the equivalent of anything (I could be wrong). Theros blocks however have stuff like King Macar, the Gold-Cursed and Triad of Fates.

    There are also the case of the many cards that should be legendary by their uniqueness and design like Colossus of Akros and Underworld Cerberus but simply didn't got the subtype because Theros already had too many legendary cards. Those also feel too much on the nose.



    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 3

    posted a message on Next set is called "Throne of Eldraine"
    Quote from Manite »
    I'm gonna admit, if they make this set's equivalent of King Arthur female, I'm going to be disappointed.

    *waits for everyone to get done booing and throwing rotten fruit at me*

    I'm not against women with swords or other weapons, mind you. I like Elspeth, and I might end up liking Rowan as well. But for me, part of the King Arthur trope's resonance is that he's a king. If you make the royal with a sword a female, you're subverting the trope instead of playing it up like is supposed to be the point of a topdown set, as much as if it were a male king with a legendary axe or a black king instead of a white one. It would be like turning the Wicked Stepmother into a Wicked Stepfather, or turning Goldilocks into a boy.

    The same thing happened to me during Ixalan. When I heard that we were getting UBR Pirates, I was so stoked to see Magic's version of Blackbeard. And then we got not one but two legendary Pirate women who had a distinct lack of beard, black or otherwise, after Kaladesh already gave us Kari Zev, Teenage Pirate Girl. I was a little disappointed. Not as much since it wasn't supposed to be a topdown Pirate world, but after all this time, for Pirates to finally come back as a proper tribe only to be denied the Pirate Captain with a glorious black beard, deflated my enthusiasm. When I looked at Beckett Brass, I didn't see Blackbeard, I saw "older pirate woman who isn't Blackbeard and never will be". By all means keep Brass and Storm around, but please, give me a proper Captain Blackbeard at some point. And maybe a Captain Jack Sparrow while you're at it.

    Again, I got no problem with women wielding weapons, I just want resonant tropes to actually feel resonant, and if you change a major feature of an established character - be it race, gender, weapon, etc. - then it won't feel resonant, it'll feel like boxchecking on some arbitrary inclusion list. You'll only be reminding us of what the trope is actually supposed to be, and your derivative character will languish in their shadow. Olivia Voldaren doesn't feel like the Dracula of Innistrad, she feels like the Carmilla. Edgar Markov is the Dracula of Innistrad.

    If we want women with weapons, let's adapt some actual WWWs, like Joan of Arc or Boudica. Saskia the Unyielding could be interpreted as a homage to the latter, what with the celtic warrior vibe (which was ruined by making her a Soldier). You could also make a homage to Meridia from Disney and Pixar's Brave, or a homage to Mulan. I'm all for inclusion, just please, please don't sacrifice trope resonance in the process, not in a topdown set. And if you want to subvert a trope, please subvert it in a set that isn't built around trope resonance. We have plenty of opportunities for queens with legendary swords in Magic, but only so many opportunities to have King Arthur and Excalibur.


    I think we just disagree here. Personally I despise this whole "trope resonance" thing. Feels like magic creative is unable to create it's own worlds and it has to keep creating derivatives. I think some indirect references here and there are cool but carbon copies like King Macar, the Gold-Cursed are terrible and lazy.

    In that sense I appreciate WotC trying to establish it's own characters and set then apart. Some trope resonance is enriching but too much feels like a cheap trick, a way for then to make legendary creatures that will makes sense for players without having the trouble to flash then out.

    So imo the problem with Captain Lannery Storm and Admiral Becket Brass is not that they fail to mimic characters from other sources, it's that they are completely underdeveloped and lack any context.

    Not trying to antagonize you here, just pointing out that a portion of the fan base rejects this "Theros" approach and there are more reasons to subvert expectations then representation alone. I think how much they feed on trope resonance will vary from block to block and this one feels like it's closer to Theros. But don't be surprised if King Arthur is Queen Rowan Kenrith as they will have to tune down the troping at some point.

    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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