Yeah artifacts and mutlicolor cards do change some properties. Artifacts with some kind of color attached to them still have a color idenity, e.g. a Signet counts as booth of it's colors.
Colorless artifacts are a bit problematic, but in our tests so far not too much actually, since your other cards usually provide all the colors you need a few Wastes here and there don't actually hurt all that much.
Multicolor cards are also a problem. They can go from harder to cast to amazing fixing, if you can simply use them for either type of basic. I think, that I like the idea, that you can exchange them for duals, but only tapped ones, so they still have a downside, also you might not want to thorw away your multicolor cards, as they are often stronger than the average monocolored card.
I like the fact that splashing is hard, which is a difference to e.g. the split library system. It's still possible. I've actually sometimes kept some fixing nonbasics in my deck instead of spells, since I usually wanted to keep most of my spells anyway and the fixing was quite welcome. It's definitely hard though.
I'm actually not entirely sure if exileing is even the right solution. Instead of exiling you could also shuffle the cards back into your deck, which makes it so, that you can use a splash card for mana first and draw and play it later in the game. This is actually how they handle it in Mythgaard. The Problem is, that mill becomes a lot worse and that you will spend a lot of time shuffleing, it's like every land you play is a fetchland, so basically modern.
I mentioned it in my last post, and edited it in the original post, we used 7 card starting hands. You have a guaranteed land drop each turn and run out of cards in hand at the same rate as a normal deck would. This deifnitely feels like the right amount.
I also mentioned/edited, that you need a bigger draft pool, though I can't really give you any advice on how big it should be, since I only did Winchester draft so far, which has a completely different size of a draft pool. To quote myself: "maybe start with 60 cards and see if everyone is able to build a deck from that. If they have too few playables, add some cards, if they have too many reduce the amount next time."
I think you should aim for a 40 card deck.
@Poster formerly known as Phitt77:
Yeah I know that battle box exists, but I'm mostly looking for a mana system that can be used in normal drafted decks. Choosing any basic land kind of defeats the purpose of colors, which is the problem with Hearthstones mana system.
@calibretto:
I've made the exact opposite experience. I've had Worldnkit in my cube for a long while as the only exception for the rarity restriction and it was always super fun and creatures unique decks, but was rarely ever stronger than the average deck. When Sovereign's Realm released, I tested it immediatly and it felt so extremely broken that it was removed from the cube after I think 2 tries.
I forgot to add, that we've obviously played with a bigger draftpool, so you don't have to play 40/45 cards. Not sure how many cards you actually need, since I've only really tested this in 1v1 Winchester so far. This requires some testing.
Also since I palyed this yesterday with my friend I realised, that we actually didn't use start with 5 cards in hand, but rather 7 each.
@Purplemurasaki:
We are already using a free 7 in all of our cube drafts. The thing with the added complexity is something me and my hand actually really enjoyed. It's of course bad for beginners, but for players on a compareable level it's really cool.
So far we've tested this mana system with 3 different cubes, my pauper cube, my artifact pauper cube and a kaladesh cube and we were surprised how little it actually changed the game. Aggro decks of course have more gas, but card draw spells for control decks are extremely powerful, since you are guaranteed to hit gas aswell. The thing was, that every deck did pretty much exaclty what it wants to do and it comes to good lines of play, the correct decisions of what to discard and some luck of drawing the right card at the right time.
Brinebarrow Intruder is no better than borderline, IMO. Sure blue doesn't have great onedrop alternatives, but does it need onedrops? The Intruder is at it's best at killing attacking 2/1s. I don't think this type of bad Ambusch Viper, that can only kill small creatures is at all necessary in blue.
Draugr Thought-Thief is bad. The body is bad and for gy shenaningans you would simply use something like Armored Skaab, which fills the gy 4 times as much.
Behold the Multiverse is definitely cubeable. Blue control decks sometimes don't have an active play on turn 2 and the whole effect at instant is just very good.
I've recently been convinced to play a new digital card game named Mythgaard by some friends, since it's one of the few TCGs, which actively supports 2hg. It's an interesting card game that does a lot of things right, like evading powercreep and reducing RNG to a minimum. I can definitely recommend it, though the lack of instant-speed type effects is my main point of critique, because it takes a lot of possible depth out of the game.
Part of the reason why the RNG is so low is, it's mana system, which is to this day probably the biggest weakness of MTG. It's probably one of the oldest and simplest ideas for a mana system there are and I'm kind of surprised, that there aren't more TCGs (at least the ones I know), which use it. You simply play an all spells deck and in order to get mana of a specific color you simply discard a card of the corresponding color. In the case of mythgaard you shuffle it back into your deck, but when you draw it again you can't use it for mana again.
I'm alawys interested in testing some different variants in my cube drafts, since I have more than one friend, who is tilted by too much flood/screw and either only plays commander or quits magic entirely. I'm always on the look out for ways to remotivate those people to play "real" magic.
I've already put a lot of work into making something like the "Force of Will" (the card game, not the mtg card) mana system work, with seperate libraries for spells and lands, but when I thought about the Mythgaard mana system I remembered, that there already exists a magic "card", that does that: Sovereign's Realm
Sovereign's Realm is probably one of the most broken cards you can have in a cube draft, but what if everyone had access to this effect? It obviously needs to be altered a little bit, so that it reads:
Sovereign's Realm
Conspiracy
(Start the game with this conspiracy face up in the command zone.)
Your starting deck can’t have basic land cards and your starting hand size is five. Edit: Your starting deck can’t have basic land cards and your starting hand size is seven.
Exile a card from your hand: This turn, you may put a basic land from outside the game, with the same color identity as the card exiled this way, into your hand.
In a nutshell, you can exile a blue card from your hand and put an Island into your hand. If you exile an artifact without a color identity you get a waste.
I wasn't really sure how to handle multicolor cards. They would be a bit too good if you can simply choose a basic of either color. Alternatively you could change it, so that they can only search for tapped duals (e.g. Guildgates).
There are obviously a lot of problems with this type of effect. I actively reworded it so it says, that you put the lands into your hand so cards like Compulsive Research can still do their job.
The fix for land ramp (e.g. Farseek) is pretty easy. Simply search for a basic from outside the game.
If tested this in a 1v1 winchester draft with a friend (Sadly not a bigger group yet. You know, Corona and stuff) and we were booth postively surprised. We had some amazing games of magic. No screw, no flood, just smooth and interactive games.
Not sure if anyone is interested in this sort of stuff, but I just wanted to share my positive experience with you and maybe give you an idea, if you also have people in your group, who are very hard to enthuse for cube drafts, due to the internal flaws of magic, or simply want to try something different.
Edit: You need a bigger draftpool in order for all drafters to get 40 spells they are happy with. I don't know how many yet, maybe start with 60 cards and see if everyone is able to build a deck from that. If they have too few playables, add some cards, if they have too many reduce the amount next time.
1 or 2 power makes all the difference. 2 power in the air is always a relevant clock, while 1 power doesn't archive much on it's own. In a vacuum Goblin Piker is way way better than Norwood Ranger. The bird really is more of a build around card, that screams pump me. I think the cards should be evaluated mostly in a vacuum without taking into consideration all the possible secondary cards, that could make them work.
I think the 1W lifelink 2/2s are very decent. Against a red deck, where is the difference between a 2/2 lifelink and Standard Bearer? Booth of them will very likely require a burnspell. The 2/2 lifelink can participate in combat and really make difference if that doesn't happen immediatly, while the Bearer just sits around and has to watch you getting beaten down by creatures.
My question is, how does Pacifism end up in the grave? Especially on purpose? I don't want a card that depends on you having a pacifism, your opponent than having a Disenchant or sac effect and all of that in the best case before turn 5 so you can play your guy on curve. Oh and yeah a creature of yours also needs to have died in the meantime. With my example I mostly wanted to point out, that an enchantment heavy deck isn't guaranteed to have a creature in your grave when you need it. If you were always able to guarantee a creature in the grave Stitched Drake would be utterly insane.
If your cube puts a lot of pump auras on non-hexproof creatures than this scenario is of course a lot more realistic, but I don't think the average cube has enough pump auras to make this work. Again too many very specific secondary cards necessary.
I don't like Battlefield Raptor. It sure is a great target for equipments and other pump, but on it's own the 1/2 flier doesn't really do all that much and being able to stall 2/1s is not a great main resaon to play a card. Borderline IMO.
That the person, who promoted Ajani's Sunstrider would call a strictly better version bad surprises me. Story Seeker is a functional reprint and the creature type doesn't matter much it's just as cubeable as Bishop's Soldier and Mesa Unicorn.
How is it easy to get a 2:1 out of Master Skald? Personally I don't have many enchantments or artifacts that go into the grave on their own and even when I had more auras I also had more hexproof creatures, which were pretty hard to deal with once you got the that point. In a Kaldheim draft I also had the situation where I had this in my deck and an enchantment to return, but no creature´in grave. I don't think this can ever be better than borderline.
In the context of whites alternatives Wings of the Cosmos can be rated as borderline, IMO.
^now i ask myself whether or not sensory deprivation is bettern than btm in my cube?
Definitely not. Still being able to block and pump it makes a huge difference. BtM also deals with tap abilities. Killing the bird is now an option for blue.
If you are really desperate for ramp targets, there is also the option to include stuff like Aurochs Herd or Self-Assembler, where u draft 1 and get 2-3 additonal copies for your deck. The problem with creatures, that are just big, in pauper is, that we have way too many cheap and efficient answers to deal with them. You always need some form of protection or card advantage to tackle this problem.
The problem with ramp in pauper is not, the amount of good ramp spells, but rather the lack of ramp targets. What do you want to cast with all that mana? Havenwood Wurm: A big Ambush Viper. Maul Splicer: 2 3/3s for 7 mana. Annoyed Altisaur: Can just as likely hit a Mana Elf, as anything else.
The only things, that are worth ramping into in my experience, are big hexproof creatures, but the most expensive hexproof creatures in green are cmc 5 and you don't need 15 ramp spells to cast them. Blue has the 6+ drops. Ramp only really works in UG for me as you also get access to card draw to make use of the mana and for every other color combination the cmc2+ ramp spells are pretty useless.
I wouldn't make nonbasics exclusive to green. I personally really enjoy enabling Grixis, Esper or one of my personal favourites mardu control decks. You can of course replace the gain lands with snow lands, but since I personally don't run any forest tutors, I will stick with the gain lands. 3 color of mostly reserved for the slower, controlish decks, because 3 color aggro gets punished a lot more by tapped lands and the lack of a color. The gain lands give the 3 color control decks something small in return, they can actually use, if they are paired against an aggressive deck, a little bit of time in form of life.
You can of course give green more fixing like Cultivate or Kodama's Reach, but I wouldn't force people to be green in order to make a 3 color deck work. Color screw simply isn't fun.
What do u want them for? Most green ramp spells only serach for basics. Unless you want to cards, that care about snow, they just don't do much. If you want to run snow-matter cards, the having snow basics is the most important part. There are certainly some snow-matter cards, that are worth runnung.
With the full spoiler out, I quickly want to summarise the set. For me the cards, that are intersting from this set are: Behold the Multiverse: A very solid card draw spell. Very likely to make the cut. Sarulf's Packmate: Card advantage for green is always welcome and this one is obviously no Llanowar Visionary, but very solid none the less. Very likely to make the cut. Bind the Monster: A blue sorcery speed Vendetta. Very good for tempo decks. I will try to find a spot, but not sure if I can. Blue is stacked. Bound in Gold: I've cut Arest a long time ago, as there simply aren't that many threatening activated abilites. The fact that this can also hit noncreatures is really nice to have, but I've cut down on artifacts and equipments very hard, so it is unlikely to make a difference. I prefer the 2 mana pacifims and Recumbent Bliss/Faith's Fetters. Even though I'm not looking to include this, I felt it was worth mentioning.
Colorless artifacts are a bit problematic, but in our tests so far not too much actually, since your other cards usually provide all the colors you need a few Wastes here and there don't actually hurt all that much.
Multicolor cards are also a problem. They can go from harder to cast to amazing fixing, if you can simply use them for either type of basic. I think, that I like the idea, that you can exchange them for duals, but only tapped ones, so they still have a downside, also you might not want to thorw away your multicolor cards, as they are often stronger than the average monocolored card.
I like the fact that splashing is hard, which is a difference to e.g. the split library system. It's still possible. I've actually sometimes kept some fixing nonbasics in my deck instead of spells, since I usually wanted to keep most of my spells anyway and the fixing was quite welcome. It's definitely hard though.
I'm actually not entirely sure if exileing is even the right solution. Instead of exiling you could also shuffle the cards back into your deck, which makes it so, that you can use a splash card for mana first and draw and play it later in the game. This is actually how they handle it in Mythgaard. The Problem is, that mill becomes a lot worse and that you will spend a lot of time shuffleing, it's like every land you play is a fetchland, so basically modern.
I mentioned it in my last post, and edited it in the original post, we used 7 card starting hands. You have a guaranteed land drop each turn and run out of cards in hand at the same rate as a normal deck would. This deifnitely feels like the right amount.
I also mentioned/edited, that you need a bigger draft pool, though I can't really give you any advice on how big it should be, since I only did Winchester draft so far, which has a completely different size of a draft pool. To quote myself: "maybe start with 60 cards and see if everyone is able to build a deck from that. If they have too few playables, add some cards, if they have too many reduce the amount next time."
I think you should aim for a 40 card deck.
Yeah I know that battle box exists, but I'm mostly looking for a mana system that can be used in normal drafted decks. Choosing any basic land kind of defeats the purpose of colors, which is the problem with Hearthstones mana system.
@calibretto:
I've made the exact opposite experience. I've had Worldnkit in my cube for a long while as the only exception for the rarity restriction and it was always super fun and creatures unique decks, but was rarely ever stronger than the average deck. When Sovereign's Realm released, I tested it immediatly and it felt so extremely broken that it was removed from the cube after I think 2 tries.
I forgot to add, that we've obviously played with a bigger draftpool, so you don't have to play 40/45 cards. Not sure how many cards you actually need, since I've only really tested this in 1v1 Winchester so far. This requires some testing.
Also since I palyed this yesterday with my friend I realised, that we actually didn't use start with 5 cards in hand, but rather 7 each.
@Purplemurasaki:
We are already using a free 7 in all of our cube drafts. The thing with the added complexity is something me and my hand actually really enjoyed. It's of course bad for beginners, but for players on a compareable level it's really cool.
So far we've tested this mana system with 3 different cubes, my pauper cube, my artifact pauper cube and a kaladesh cube and we were surprised how little it actually changed the game. Aggro decks of course have more gas, but card draw spells for control decks are extremely powerful, since you are guaranteed to hit gas aswell. The thing was, that every deck did pretty much exaclty what it wants to do and it comes to good lines of play, the correct decisions of what to discard and some luck of drawing the right card at the right time.
Draugr Thought-Thief is bad. The body is bad and for gy shenaningans you would simply use something like Armored Skaab, which fills the gy 4 times as much.
Behold the Multiverse is definitely cubeable. Blue control decks sometimes don't have an active play on turn 2 and the whole effect at instant is just very good.
I agree with the rest.
Part of the reason why the RNG is so low is, it's mana system, which is to this day probably the biggest weakness of MTG. It's probably one of the oldest and simplest ideas for a mana system there are and I'm kind of surprised, that there aren't more TCGs (at least the ones I know), which use it. You simply play an all spells deck and in order to get mana of a specific color you simply discard a card of the corresponding color. In the case of mythgaard you shuffle it back into your deck, but when you draw it again you can't use it for mana again.
I'm alawys interested in testing some different variants in my cube drafts, since I have more than one friend, who is tilted by too much flood/screw and either only plays commander or quits magic entirely. I'm always on the look out for ways to remotivate those people to play "real" magic.
I've already put a lot of work into making something like the "Force of Will" (the card game, not the mtg card) mana system work, with seperate libraries for spells and lands, but when I thought about the Mythgaard mana system I remembered, that there already exists a magic "card", that does that: Sovereign's Realm
Sovereign's Realm is probably one of the most broken cards you can have in a cube draft, but what if everyone had access to this effect? It obviously needs to be altered a little bit, so that it reads:
Sovereign's Realm
Conspiracy
(Start the game with this conspiracy face up in the command zone.)
Your starting deck can’t have basic land cards and your starting hand size is five.Edit: Your starting deck can’t have basic land cards and your starting hand size is seven.
Exile a card from your hand: This turn, you may put a basic land from outside the game, with the same color identity as the card exiled this way, into your hand.
In a nutshell, you can exile a blue card from your hand and put an Island into your hand. If you exile an artifact without a color identity you get a waste.
I wasn't really sure how to handle multicolor cards. They would be a bit too good if you can simply choose a basic of either color. Alternatively you could change it, so that they can only search for tapped duals (e.g. Guildgates).
There are obviously a lot of problems with this type of effect. I actively reworded it so it says, that you put the lands into your hand so cards like Compulsive Research can still do their job.
The fix for land ramp (e.g. Farseek) is pretty easy. Simply search for a basic from outside the game.
If tested this in a 1v1 winchester draft with a friend (Sadly not a bigger group yet. You know, Corona and stuff) and we were booth postively surprised. We had some amazing games of magic. No screw, no flood, just smooth and interactive games.
Not sure if anyone is interested in this sort of stuff, but I just wanted to share my positive experience with you and maybe give you an idea, if you also have people in your group, who are very hard to enthuse for cube drafts, due to the internal flaws of magic, or simply want to try something different.
Edit: You need a bigger draftpool in order for all drafters to get 40 spells they are happy with. I don't know how many yet, maybe start with 60 cards and see if everyone is able to build a deck from that. If they have too few playables, add some cards, if they have too many reduce the amount next time.
I think the 1W lifelink 2/2s are very decent. Against a red deck, where is the difference between a 2/2 lifelink and Standard Bearer? Booth of them will very likely require a burnspell. The 2/2 lifelink can participate in combat and really make difference if that doesn't happen immediatly, while the Bearer just sits around and has to watch you getting beaten down by creatures.
My question is, how does Pacifism end up in the grave? Especially on purpose? I don't want a card that depends on you having a pacifism, your opponent than having a Disenchant or sac effect and all of that in the best case before turn 5 so you can play your guy on curve. Oh and yeah a creature of yours also needs to have died in the meantime. With my example I mostly wanted to point out, that an enchantment heavy deck isn't guaranteed to have a creature in your grave when you need it. If you were always able to guarantee a creature in the grave Stitched Drake would be utterly insane.
If your cube puts a lot of pump auras on non-hexproof creatures than this scenario is of course a lot more realistic, but I don't think the average cube has enough pump auras to make this work. Again too many very specific secondary cards necessary.
That the person, who promoted Ajani's Sunstrider would call a strictly better version bad surprises me. Story Seeker is a functional reprint and the creature type doesn't matter much it's just as cubeable as Bishop's Soldier and Mesa Unicorn.
How is it easy to get a 2:1 out of Master Skald? Personally I don't have many enchantments or artifacts that go into the grave on their own and even when I had more auras I also had more hexproof creatures, which were pretty hard to deal with once you got the that point. In a Kaldheim draft I also had the situation where I had this in my deck and an enchantment to return, but no creature´in grave. I don't think this can ever be better than borderline.
In the context of whites alternatives Wings of the Cosmos can be rated as borderline, IMO.
The rest of the evaluations I agree with.
Maul Splicer: 2 3/3s for 7 mana.
Annoyed Altisaur: Can just as likely hit a Mana Elf, as anything else.
The only things, that are worth ramping into in my experience, are big hexproof creatures, but the most expensive hexproof creatures in green are cmc 5 and you don't need 15 ramp spells to cast them. Blue has the 6+ drops. Ramp only really works in UG for me as you also get access to card draw to make use of the mana and for every other color combination the cmc2+ ramp spells are pretty useless.
I wouldn't make nonbasics exclusive to green. I personally really enjoy enabling Grixis, Esper or one of my personal favourites mardu control decks. You can of course replace the gain lands with snow lands, but since I personally don't run any forest tutors, I will stick with the gain lands. 3 color of mostly reserved for the slower, controlish decks, because 3 color aggro gets punished a lot more by tapped lands and the lack of a color. The gain lands give the 3 color control decks something small in return, they can actually use, if they are paired against an aggressive deck, a little bit of time in form of life.
You can of course give green more fixing like Cultivate or Kodama's Reach, but I wouldn't force people to be green in order to make a 3 color deck work. Color screw simply isn't fun.
Behold the Multiverse: A very solid card draw spell. Very likely to make the cut.
Sarulf's Packmate: Card advantage for green is always welcome and this one is obviously no Llanowar Visionary, but very solid none the less. Very likely to make the cut.
Bind the Monster: A blue sorcery speed Vendetta. Very good for tempo decks. I will try to find a spot, but not sure if I can. Blue is stacked.
Bound in Gold: I've cut Arest a long time ago, as there simply aren't that many threatening activated abilites. The fact that this can also hit noncreatures is really nice to have, but I've cut down on artifacts and equipments very hard, so it is unlikely to make a difference. I prefer the 2 mana pacifims and Recumbent Bliss/Faith's Fetters. Even though I'm not looking to include this, I felt it was worth mentioning.