I don't think that is true. We are still a beatdown deck and we should try to put as much power on board as quickly as possible. 95% of time it will mean that we should Dredge as many cards as possible becouse more milled cards = more recursive creatures we see and more other options. That 5% are corner cases. I'll show 2 examples:
1. Matchup where we have to be fast and disruptive at once. For example against Lantern or Ad Nauseam Looting + other discard effect + Bloodghast and 2 Amalgams in hand is the best what we can have becouse it's guaranteed 8 power on turn 2 and we have many actual draws to dig for effects to slow opponent down.
2. We already dredged some cards, we still have other dredge cards in grave but also for example 3 Bloodghast or Scourge Devil to activate and opponent is under 10 life. if we only have 2 lands It's usually correct to natural draw becouse in that situation many cards in library are good - most of time all lands, looting effects and Loams.
If we are beatdown with great late game anyway (becouse Dredge is one of the best if not the best card advantage machine in Modern, even in whole history of Magic) we should focus on giving ourselves highest chances to have fast starts. That's why I play Devil not Haunted Dead or Driven//Dispair. That's why only 1 Dakmor Salvage and sideboard it out very often. That's why sideboard interaction is as cheap as possible. All deck is designed to have the highest chances to put a lot of power on early turns.
Of course - there are many matchups and lines where Dregde should act diffrently:
1. as control deck - Affinity, Infect, Humans, Elves and so on.
2. As deck focused to play around hate cards - like Jeskai and UW Control post side.
3. As tempo deck - vs combo decks, Lantern or Burn.
Dredge can adapt to all given situations in Modern, but we should remember that for us our first priority is to put power on battlefield and end games fast. Having other optinos (and there are A LOT of them each game!) is main reason why Dredge is one of the most complicated decks in Modern.
About decklist:
1. Decided to play 4 Life from the Loam - I was playing 3 for very long time, but it was great call. Loam is just too important to not play full playset. I cut Golgari Thug, becouse I wanted to have 2 Darkblast main in Affintiy/Humans meta I expected. Today I would play 3 Thugs 1 Darkblast.
2. Scourge Devil was MVP!!! Enabled twice T3 kills, locked many games which I wouldn’t win without it. Must in for me!
3. Sideboard is simple - ignore true grave decks and focus on dealing with opponents’ grave hate. After GP maybe I would like to play 3 Thoughtseizes, but it’s hard to find space
My games
Friday morning I was looking for some tournament to play, wanted to play double up, but “missclicked” and signed up for early bird trial R1 Grixis Shadow 2-0
R2 Temur Moon 2-0 R3 Burn 2-1 G3 I played around Relic and taxed my opponent for 1 mana for around 3 turns. That helped me build enough resources to overcome soft hate. R4 Mardu Pyromancer 2-1. In game 2 opponent suprised me with Rakdos Charm and I couldn’t recover in time. Game 3 I played around it and easily won. But I already had 2 byes from ranking so I conceded to my opponent
After Trial I played 3 round regular modern tournament R1 Grixis Shadow 2-0 R2 RG Valakut 0-2 Both games I had outs to dredge from Imp to win a game, but twice haven’t found anything R3 Don’t remember what was it but won
Friday showed me, that I’m well prepared for Grand Prix. Had 2 byes, so I could sleep a little bit more
My Grand Prix: R1 Bye
R2 Bye
R3 Traverse Shadow 2-0
In game one my opponent had fast start with 2 Death’s Shadows, but some creatures plus Scourge Devil attacked for lethal.
+2 Lightning Axe +2 Decay
-1 Reunion, -2 Darkblast -1 Fetchland
Didn’t side in all 4 Axes becouse somethimes their creatures are already bigger than X/5.
Game 2 was kind of boring - my opponent missed second landdrop, which gave me time to build good board to attack my opponent through 1 blocker. R4 Traverse Shadow 2-0
Game 1 easy win, sideboard the same as R3.
Game 2 I mulled to 5, kept hand with 1 land, 2 Neonates, Bloodghast and Amalgam, from neonates drew second Bloodghast and land. Natural draw gave me Lightnitng Axe, which killed Death’s Shadow. I killed my opponent with regular Dredge beats, without using dredge mechanic at all. R5 BR Hollow One 2-0
Game 1 won dice roll, on turn 2 had 12 power on turn 2. My opponent had 2 Hollow One, Adept and Bloodghast on turn 2, but I attacked first and with Conflagrate backup + Scourge Devil on turn 4 I won damage race.
+3 Lightning Axe +3 Nature’s Claim
- 3 Neonates, -2 Darkblast -1 Dakmor Salvage
Game 2 my opponent didn’t have Leyline but laed with T1 and T2 Flameblade Adepts. I was lucky and dredged Narcomoeba. Hardcasted Golgari Thug and started to double block his guys and udes Thug’s Ability to put Narcomoeba on top of library to make sure I will never run out of blockers. Eventually won with my DCAM (Dredge card advantage machine ). R6 Soulflayer Suprise 1-2
Game 1 had turn 3 kill with Scourge Devil. My opponent showed me Lotleth Troll and Zethalpa oO After thinking a little bit I asked judge for Soulflayer wording. I was somewhat happy when my opponent actually played it
+2 Thoughtseize +2 Lightning Axe
-2 Darkblast, -1 Dakmor, -1 Neonate
Game 2 played early Thoughtseize to discard Soulflayer but opponent timely topdecked another one to make 4/4 with all abilities in a world. Can’t be killed, can’t race 4/4 double strike lifelinker
Game 3 after mull to 5 I had slow start and my opponent had time to finally assemble Soulflayer again. R7 Tron 0-2
Game 1 I was on a draw, my skilled opponent played Wurmcoil on turn 3, Relic on turn 4 and Ugin turn 5. Well played bro
+2 Ancient Grudge +2 Thoughtseize +1 Nature’s Claim
-2 Darkblast -1 Dakmor, -1 Lightning Axe, -1 Conflagrate
Game 2 he had T1 Cage, I couldn’t find response and lost to Thought Knot Seer beats. R8 Counters Company 2-0
Game 1 my opponent kept 1 lander, played only 2 Bops. I dredged Conflagrate GG
I didn’t know which one Bop deck is it so I sided in in a safe way.
+3 LIghtning Axe +2 Decay (If I knew he was on Druid combo I would side in Brutality in place of Decay)
Game 2 opponent leads with Bop, I played Darkblast. Turn 2 he played Hierarch, I replayed Darkblast. We tried to race with Finks + Duskwatch, but I overpowered him with DCAM. R9 Grixis Shadow 2-1
Game 1 was relatively easy thanks to Scourge Devil. One more time GDS played played 2 Shadows, but Devil was too much damage for my opponent to pass up.
+3 LIghtning Axe +2 Decay
-1 Reunion -2 Darkblst -1 Fetchland -1 Neonate
Game 2 my opponent suprised me and played Leyline on turn 0 oO Killed me 5 turns later.
I switched my side plan:
-2 Decay -1 Axe
+3 Nature’s Claim
In game 3 my opponent probably focused too much on Leyline, he mulled to 4, found one and was sad becouse I kept 2 axes, 2 lands, Bloodghast, Neonate and Nature’s Claim Even gave him 4 life soe he couldn’t play early Shadows I drew some cards naturally, found Imp and go off from there. R 10 BR Hollow One 1-2
Game 1 mulled to 5 and bricked. My opponent also didn’t have anything spectacular and 2 Bloodghast killed me like it was weak draft deck.
Side from R5
Game 2 had strong start + Conflagrate for Hollow One and Adept. Easy game.
Game 3 my opponent found Leyline, I haven’t found any Claims in top 20 cards. Lost to Bloodghast beats. R 11 Burn 2-0
Game 1 my opponent misspleyd and choosed to not kill me That was strange oO
+3 Brutality +1 Axe
-2 Darkblast - 1 Dakmor -1 Conflagrate
Game 2 had 2 Brutalities in opening, also my opponent choosed to bolt my Amalgams It was strange that I could find noobs on this level. R 12 Jeskai Control 2-0
Nothing to say here, I destroyed him. It’s so easy match up that I even nearly haven’t sideboarded a lot only +2 Axe -1 Darkblast -1 Reunion R13 Jeskai Tempo 1-2
I played vs Sunkei Nakamura, easily won game 1but both game 2 and 3 he had Rest in Peace on turn 2 :/ I even sided in +2 Thoughtseize +2 Decay and -1 Reunion -1 Darkblast -1 Dakmor -1 Conflagrate, but I competily bricked, mulled to 4 and got destroyed :/ R 14 Jeskai Control 2-0
Game 1 was as always vs Jeskai - easy. But opponent showed me Ancestral Visions so i knew he was on hard control plan. So I had to adapt with my side plan.
+2 Brutality +2 Thoughtseize
-1 Axe, -1 Reunion, -1 Darkblast -1 Conflagrate.
Game 2 was kind of interesting. Turn 1 played Looting discarding Loam and Amalgam, opponent played Surgical on Amalgam. Whatever, it’s just 3/3 guy But in second turn opponent played second land and said pass. I suspected that he could have Snapcaster. I hope that we won’t Surgical my Loam, but that didn’t happen. I could play Turn 2 Loam to build hand or play another loothing to dredge another Loam. I decided to play around both Logic Knot and Surgical, chosed Looting. Dredged some stuff, discarded Loams. on turn 3 my opponent drew card and passed without landdrop. That ensured me that it was 100% that Snapcaster is waiting to exile Bloodghasts. I dredged more cards, played land and cast Loam. Turn 4 for my opponent was land go. I dredged some cards, found 2 Narcomoebas. Played Looting, found 2 Bloodghasts. Played my fifth land and triggered 2/1 vampiers. My opponent casted Snap + Extraction and tried to exile my guys, but I cracked fetchland which I played on turn 2 in response to make another landfall effect to return Bloodghasts from grave before Surgical resolved. After this play it was quite easy to win. That was probably my best game on Grand Prix. R 15 Humans 2-0
Game 1 I had good Dredge start, and quick Conflagrate killed enough creatures to break humans critical mass. Easy win.
+3 Axes +2 Decay
-1 Loam, -1 Reunion - 1 Dakmor - 2 Neonate
Game 2 was much more grindy, I chumped a lot with Narcomoebas and Thug. Stinkweed Imp helped to stabilize board. Opponent played Meddling Mage on Conflag but I finally found Darkblast to start killing his Phantasmal Images. Finally won with Imps and DCAM.
I ended 100th and didn’t cash on tie breakers :/ But still it was my best finish on Grand Prix. I lost only to Soulflayer (it is still so funny to me ) and games where hard grave hate was involved. Deck was great, playing it for so long is paying off. 2nd place in MKM series in Prague in 2017, now 11-4 on GP, I’ll still be Dredge guy for at least next months.
I still have my 65% win ratio but I'm not feeling so comfortable before GP. BR Hollow One existence means that grave hate will be in big numbers :/
@lvg I also have problems with Tron, only tech I got is Pithing Needle but I don't know if it's good enough to be in my 75.
To be honest it's totally dead only vs Gx Tron and Lantern Control. But every other match up it's great or good:
All Shadow decks, Abzan, Burn, Affinity, Humans, Eldrazi Tron, Gifts Storm, Hatebears, Hollow One, Company Decks and so on. In all mentioned match ups Lightning Axe will be great, at least in game 1.
Also vs spell based decks Lightnign Axe will be "ok". Vs Titanshift it can clear way killing Sakura. Vs Jeskai/UW can kill Spell Queler or late Collonade.
Maybe it's time to play 2 main?
My sideboard:
3 Lightning Axe
3 Collective Brutality
3 Nature's Claim
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
Abour my sideboard: I love Lightning Axe, there was a time when I was playing 4 copies side. Right now I don't have much spece to play full playset but I won't go below 3, they are too good.
3 Collective Brutalities are good becouse of Burn popularity. I have 60% win rate vs Burn but I feel I still need another card in that match up. I'm considering playing Gnaw to the Bone to lock games vs Burn.
My only flex slots are Thoughtseizes. don't get me wrong - they are great magic cards - but they don't fit so well to Dredge gameplan. Maybe i'll swap 1 Thoughtseie with 1 Gnaw..
I think you want to respond to everything an opponent could have. Siding Duress vs Affinity or Burn when you already have much better cards in both match up only becouse you fear that they will play Rest in Peace. In my opinion it's not how you will increase win percentage. You can't oversidebaord and you should response to opponents' main gameplay in first place. For example - Nature's Claim and Grudge will be better vs Affinity than Duress, it's better to play more artifact destruction than responses to their 2 off RiP. If they have it - they are good magic players and you probably will have game 3 to try again
The same goes to grave hate - it's not even that good vs Storm. I found that discard spells are better becouse they can also interact with Empty the Warrens or Grapeshot + Remand plan. Grave hate is only good vs mirror and it's so unlikely that you will play one that it's better tot sacrifice mirror match to increase other match ups.
My tips:
1. Play Nature's Claim only if u suspect Leyline of the Void or Rest in Peace/Grafdigger's Cage in slower match ups (like UW Control). Don't side in vs Relics or Nihil Spellmoboms. They will crack it in response to your Claim and you will be sad that u spent card on it.
2. Side in 3 Axes 2 Decays is good vs most creature decks. It's plan vs Humans, BGx, Shadows, fair Company decks and so on. Just kill their creatures, slow their clock and build card advantage with Dredge mechanic. Don't side in Grudges/Claims only becouse they have 1-2 Grafdigger's Cage in sideboard - you already have 2 Decays to response it and they more often won't have Cage and losing to Tarmogoyf or Mantis Rider beats when you have Claim in hand it's the worst feeling ever.
3. it's general correct to side in all discard spells vs spell based combo decks but don't be afraid to experiment with unusual lines - for example vs Madcap Moon it's better to side in Ancient Grudges than 4-5th discard spells. Do whatever you like but don't break golden rule - don't oversideboard. Setting up clock is more important than disruption, with discard spells but no clock they will easily rebuild.
@lvg Nature's Claim is great, it's 1 mana answer to everything that can attack us badly - Leyline, Cage, RiP and so on. And since we are grinding opponents 4 life is 95% irrelevant. Even against Affintiy destroying any permanent for "G" is good enough that we can give our opponent some life.
I'll also play Dredge at GP Lyon, maybe u could share what's your sideboard look like?
Why u want Maelstrom Pulse as response to Leyline? In my opinion you should destroy Leyline as fast as possible. If you want to destroy Leyline on turn 3 there are two problems:
1. They will likely have also discard spells to get rid of Pulse.
2. All decks with Leyline in sideboard will set up a clock. Mardu with Young Pyromancer, Hollow One with many threats, 8 rack will destroy your hand till turn 3. Even if you play Pulse on time u won't do enough dredges to assemble our grave engine. Dredge it's not storm to kill out of nowhere, we need time to find more creatures than opponent can cast. We need to cast 1-2 Loams to make sure we will have landdrops and/or big Conflagrate. We even need time to untap with some Amalgams to block if we are behind (and we will be if we give our opponent 3 Time Walks). Maelstrom Pulse is a great "catch all" card, but if you want to fight with Leyline u should play Nature's Claims. I usually play 3, sometimes even 4, they are great! And 4 life is much less cost than giving 2 Time Walks to our opponent.
Scourge Devil is much much better than Rally. Couple reasons why:
1. Devil is uncounterable. It's VERY important vs Shadow decks and Jeskai/UW.
2. By itself deals 4 dmg - rally 0. Rally gives you more damage if you have 5 or more creatures. If we already he so many we should win no matter which pump spell we use. And that 4 dmg can kill from nowhere or pressure Planeswalkers (useful vs Tron with Karn/Ugin and Jace, Architect of Thought).
3. Devil is better if opponent has removal spells in hand to combat our overrun effect. The most important is vs Shadow and Jeskai. it's better to have more creatures wirh less power than less but bigger creatures. Bolt effects will kill anything, push all our regular creatures (but Devil is immune to Push :p) so it's better to force them to kill more stuff.
4. Devil can return Amalgams from graveyard. It's important vs Surgical decks.
5. It's a creature It can be casted for 5 mana. it can return form Living End. 99% of times It won't pump Goyf (and instant usually does it).
Pro tip - when opponent is at 10 our Bloodghasts gain haste. 2 Ghasts + devil is exectly 10. It's uncounterable way to deal lehtla dmg out from nowhere.
Of course Rally also have some pluses:
1. It's on instant speed so we can force opponent to make bad blocks becouse Rally is fear.
2. Instant speed effect is useful vs Lantern. For example with bridge in play and 1 card in opponent's hand we can attack with Narcomoebas and hardcasted dredges and after declaring attackers we can pump and attack for much more.
3. In lategame with 6 mana we can give our creatures +4+0. hardcast than flashback. Personally did it once, as classic win more ;p
After more than 1000 mathces on MTGO with 65% win ratio I can safely say that Devil is the best "combat trick card" in Dredge. Haunted Dead, Rally the Peasants or even Driven//Despair - they all have some advantages and disadvantages but overall Devil many times showed me that he deserves his slot.
About grave hate in sideboard - if you are playing any that should be Leyline. Ideally you will play the game drawing an opening hand + 1-2 cards, then u wil dredge. If you relay a lot on opening hand u should play the most powerfull effect. I was playing 4 leylines or 0 for a long time but I realized that numbers should be correlated to metagame. If u for example predict normal metagame u shouldn'y play more than 2 Leylines sideaboard. Drawing exactly 1 Leyline is great but more of them can be problematic. If u draw it post side vs mirror or storm - u are great dredge player! If not u can play your game or mulligan and still look for broken opening or Leyline. Even 1 Leyline in sideabord is good - that only means that u don't expect a lot of graveyard stategies. And playing 1 Leyline over 1 Bojuka Bog or 1 Nihil spellbomb will almost always be better.
If you want to play any grave hate - play Leyline.
I was playing Dredge since the beggening of its existence in Modern. I remember times when everybody was playing 4 Burning Inquires and how quickly it was cut from maindecks. But after lists with 2 Inquires made some success on last tournaments on MTGO I wanted to try it once again. I counted it as extra looting effect (right now I'm playing 4 Neonates 4 Reunions 4 Lootings), good when you draw only one but bad in multiples. Natural consequence was to avoid drawing more then one so I put only 1 to maindeck. And so far I love it! It's like extra punch on turn 2-3 when combined with another looting effect. After you play second land random discard is not so scary and extra 10-15 cards milled make difference. Also I often keep it after side becouse it's often correct to side out weaker effects - Reunion vs countermagic and tax effects or Neonate when raw power matters more.
In sideboard games it's often correct to ignore grave hate. We can separate all grave hate to a few groups:
1. Artifact hate which sacrifice to exile grave (Relic, Nihil Spellbomb, Tormod's Crypt ect) - ignore and hope for the best. If you think they have it lead with Insolent Neonate - you can wait for end of opponents turn to sac him, extra information will often decide between win and lose. If it sticks and it's on thew battlefield try not to use discard outlets and dredge Loams and Imps to oblivion - Narcomoeba's and Bloodghast's triggers will eventually force them to pop out hate cards. Nice trick - if u can keep fetchland on battlefield to have ability to return Bloodghasts in resp to their cracking artifacts.
2. Scavenging Ooze - keep removal in hand, if you have 3 red mana on table don't discard Conflagrate since you can play conflagrate for x=0 and then flashback for a lot killing Scooze - they won't have time to exile Conflag.
3. Graffdigger's Cage - we need to find artifact hate but can easily discard our Dredgers, Bloodghasts and Amalgams. Dig and find something to destroy it. Important note - if you play against for example Jund and they can have 1 Cage in sidebaord don't side in narrow cards for it like Nature's Claim, if they have it they are better players and we sometimes lose. Or we can draw Abrupt Decay/Pulse which are catch all answers to everything they can have.
4. Rest in Peace - yolo, maybe they don't have it. If you are lucky and draw antihate in opening you can wait with for example Looting for a turn to check if they have it.
5. Surgical Extraction - we don't care, sometimes ***** happens. Only playing aroudn we have is to play fetchland to protect Bloodghast being exiled - in resp o Extraction we can crack fetch and return Bloodghasts before Extraction resolve.
6. Ravenous Trap, Faerie Macabre - total yolo, play like they don't have it.
7. Leyline of the Void - only exception. If you know they have it after sideabord (for example you are playing vs 8 rack, BW control or Mardu) mulligan aggresivaly for Claim/Pulse (to be honest Pulse is terrible vs Leyline becouse all Black Leyline decks are decks with a lot of discard, we will lose Pulse before playing third land).
About Reunion there are 3 main situations when we are sididng out Catharic Reunions:
1. They have a lot of countermagic like Negate, Spell Snare, Denial, Spell Pierce, Remand on draw and so on.
2. They have tax effects like Thalia.
3. We need to be very lucky, need to side out a lot of cards and Insolent Neonate with Imp will have more chances to put more power to battlefield on turn 2. But to be honest this situation is really uncommon.
I can help
I played Modern on MKM Series in Prague with Dredge. There were 296 players, I ended in finals and lost to RG Titan.
My list:
Main Deck:
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Bloodghast
4 Narcomoeba
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Faithless Looting
4 Cathartic Reunion
4 Life from the Loam
1 Darkblast
3 Conflagrate
1 Driven // Despair
3 Copperline Gorge
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Stomping Ground
2 Blood Crypt
2 Mountain
1 Gemstone Mine
2 Dakmor Salvage
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard:
4 Nature's Claim
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Driven // Despair
3 Lightning Axe
3 Collective Brutality
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
My friends told me day before that on big trial there were a lot of affinity and Company decks so I changed my Amulet Titan deck for Dredge. Couple thoughts about my 75:
1. I'm a big fan of Driven//Despair. I was 100% sure that it's much better than Thoughtseize in sideboard and I wanted 2 copies for game 2 and 3 against combo and ramp decks. Playing 1 main in Scourge Devil's place was last minute addition. Driven main was good, it won me 2 games by discarding opponent's whole hand.
2. Maindeck should still have Scourge Devil, I don't know where I should look for extra space for him.
3. I like having 4 claims side - it's the cheapest response to hard hate - Leyline, Rip and Cage, of course don't side them against for example Nihil Spellbombs or lone Relics. Other alternatives like Maelstorm Pulse are too slow - it will destroy hate but our opponent would be so far ahead that we usually won't return from this.
4. Driven//Despair solve so many problems that could shave cards dedicated to combo decks. I got extra slots and focused on having more removal to creatures. Lightning Axes overperformed, lone Pharaoh was too clunky, that should be something else.
5. Collective Brutality was like always very good, with 3 Axes they created nice side plan against creature decks like Coco.
To be honest I was lucky and dodged bad match ups like Storm or Ad Nauseam.
Match ups:
R1 Affinity 2-1
R2 Grixis Delver 2-0 - Despair won game 1, it let me dodge blocking Tasigur and discard 4 cards from opponents hand.
R3 Counters Company 2-0
R4 Affinity 2-1
R5 Eldrazi Tron 0-2 - he knew what I was playing and on a play kept 2 lander with 2 Relics Game 2 I mulligan to 5 and he had relic + fast Smasher.
R6 Grixis Shadow 2-1 - Game 3 I won through Grafdiggers Cage played on turn 1. He drew 3 Delve Creatures, I drew 3 Lightning Axes won with 2 Imps and Neonate beatdown.
R7 Eldrazi Tron 2-0 - luckily G1 without hate and game 2 he kept bad hand with Cage but I had Claim.
R8 Counters Company 2-0
R9 Counters Company 2-0 - game 1 Driven was my only out to my opponents plan - he had 4 cards in hand, 4 lands and Hierarch on play and pass. I realised that he wanted to play Chord in endstep and combo me next turn. I didn't have lethal in my turn but Dredged Driven//Despair. I forced him to discard Vizier, Eternal Witness and blank, on endstep he played Chord but without more gas he conceded.
1/4 RG Tytan 2-1 - in game 3 my opponent lost his hand on turn 4 becouse of Despair
1/2 Grixis Shadow 2-0 - you can read about both semis and final on MKM Modern coverage.
Final RG Tytan 0-2 - in game 2 I was on mull to 5 but managed to have 3 Bloodghasts and Narcomoeba on turn 2 and turn 3 I casted Driven to draw 4 cards and was so exited that I did this that I forgot to write down that my opponent lost 7 life that's why I missplayed on Conflagrate 2 turns later and lost otherwise won game.
Overall deck was great, I saw very little grave hate. Maybe players on MTGO will shave their grave hate and will focus on other match ups? We will see
Driven//Despair is what exactly Dredge needed vs combo decks. On turn 3/4 it can easily discard all opponent's hand, it's game winning vs RG Titan, Storm, Ad Nauseam and so on. Of course it won't be maindeckable card but will be perfect as 2-3 off in sideboard.
True with Mana Confluence - don't play it. But I really like 2 or even 3 City of Brass. It helps with mana issues (which can happen, especially after sideboard when people side in Stony Silence) and 1-3 life per game is not a problem. It's like we were playing fetch + shock, hurts but most of time won't be relevant. And copared to Gemstine Mine 2-3 life per game vs losing land before combo turn is huge difference. Too many times I couldn't play my spells becouse stip mining against for example control or even race match ups is terrible. Also all good hands with 1 lander Gemstone or 2 Gemstones as only lands are at least very risky. For example: Bloom, Gemstone, 2 cantrips, Grace Unlife, Ad Nauseam is a good hand but if you won't find land in first cantrip it could be very problemic. City of Brass would be better. Another example is: 2 Gemstones, Prism, Unlife, spoils, 2 cantrips. It would be easy keep but becouse of lands it becomes very risky since you can't "curve out" without losing lands which can be a way to lose. Even against Burn I would prefer having 2 City of Brasses over 2 Gemstones as only lands in opening.
1. Matchup where we have to be fast and disruptive at once. For example against Lantern or Ad Nauseam Looting + other discard effect + Bloodghast and 2 Amalgams in hand is the best what we can have becouse it's guaranteed 8 power on turn 2 and we have many actual draws to dig for effects to slow opponent down.
2. We already dredged some cards, we still have other dredge cards in grave but also for example 3 Bloodghast or Scourge Devil to activate and opponent is under 10 life. if we only have 2 lands It's usually correct to natural draw becouse in that situation many cards in library are good - most of time all lands, looting effects and Loams.
If we are beatdown with great late game anyway (becouse Dredge is one of the best if not the best card advantage machine in Modern, even in whole history of Magic) we should focus on giving ourselves highest chances to have fast starts. That's why I play Devil not Haunted Dead or Driven//Dispair. That's why only 1 Dakmor Salvage and sideboard it out very often. That's why sideboard interaction is as cheap as possible. All deck is designed to have the highest chances to put a lot of power on early turns.
Of course - there are many matchups and lines where Dregde should act diffrently:
1. as control deck - Affinity, Infect, Humans, Elves and so on.
2. As deck focused to play around hate cards - like Jeskai and UW Control post side.
3. As tempo deck - vs combo decks, Lantern or Burn.
Dredge can adapt to all given situations in Modern, but we should remember that for us our first priority is to put power on battlefield and end games fast. Having other optinos (and there are A LOT of them each game!) is main reason why Dredge is one of the most complicated decks in Modern.
I played Dredge on GP Lyon, made 6-1 on Friday and 11-4 on Grand Prix.
My list:
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Golgari Thug
3 Insolent Neonate
4 Bloodghast
4 Narcomoeba
4 Prized Amalgam
1 Scourge Devil
4 Cathartic Reunion
4 Faithless Looting
3 Conflagrate
2 Darkblast
1 Lightning Axe
4 Life from the Loam
4 Copperline Gorge
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 City of Brass
1 Gemstone Mine
2 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
2 Blood Crypt
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa
SIDEBOARD
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Thoughtseize
3 Collective Brutality
3 Lightning Axe
3 Nature's Claim
About decklist:
1. Decided to play 4 Life from the Loam - I was playing 3 for very long time, but it was great call. Loam is just too important to not play full playset. I cut Golgari Thug, becouse I wanted to have 2 Darkblast main in Affintiy/Humans meta I expected. Today I would play 3 Thugs 1 Darkblast.
2. Scourge Devil was MVP!!! Enabled twice T3 kills, locked many games which I wouldn’t win without it. Must in for me!
3. Sideboard is simple - ignore true grave decks and focus on dealing with opponents’ grave hate. After GP maybe I would like to play 3 Thoughtseizes, but it’s hard to find space
My games
Friday morning I was looking for some tournament to play, wanted to play double up, but “missclicked” and signed up for early bird trial
R1 Grixis Shadow 2-0
R2 Temur Moon 2-0
R3 Burn 2-1 G3 I played around Relic and taxed my opponent for 1 mana for around 3 turns. That helped me build enough resources to overcome soft hate.
R4 Mardu Pyromancer 2-1. In game 2 opponent suprised me with Rakdos Charm and I couldn’t recover in time. Game 3 I played around it and easily won. But I already had 2 byes from ranking so I conceded to my opponent
After Trial I played 3 round regular modern tournament
R1 Grixis Shadow 2-0
R2 RG Valakut 0-2 Both games I had outs to dredge from Imp to win a game, but twice haven’t found anything
R3 Don’t remember what was it but won
Friday showed me, that I’m well prepared for Grand Prix. Had 2 byes, so I could sleep a little bit more
My Grand Prix:
R1 Bye
R2 Bye
R3 Traverse Shadow 2-0
In game one my opponent had fast start with 2 Death’s Shadows, but some creatures plus Scourge Devil attacked for lethal.
+2 Lightning Axe +2 Decay
-1 Reunion, -2 Darkblast -1 Fetchland
Didn’t side in all 4 Axes becouse somethimes their creatures are already bigger than X/5.
Game 2 was kind of boring - my opponent missed second landdrop, which gave me time to build good board to attack my opponent through 1 blocker.
R4 Traverse Shadow 2-0
Game 1 easy win, sideboard the same as R3.
Game 2 I mulled to 5, kept hand with 1 land, 2 Neonates, Bloodghast and Amalgam, from neonates drew second Bloodghast and land. Natural draw gave me Lightnitng Axe, which killed Death’s Shadow. I killed my opponent with regular Dredge beats, without using dredge mechanic at all.
R5 BR Hollow One 2-0
Game 1 won dice roll, on turn 2 had 12 power on turn 2. My opponent had 2 Hollow One, Adept and Bloodghast on turn 2, but I attacked first and with Conflagrate backup + Scourge Devil on turn 4 I won damage race.
+3 Lightning Axe +3 Nature’s Claim
- 3 Neonates, -2 Darkblast -1 Dakmor Salvage
Game 2 my opponent didn’t have Leyline but laed with T1 and T2 Flameblade Adepts. I was lucky and dredged Narcomoeba. Hardcasted Golgari Thug and started to double block his guys and udes Thug’s Ability to put Narcomoeba on top of library to make sure I will never run out of blockers. Eventually won with my DCAM (Dredge card advantage machine
R6 Soulflayer Suprise 1-2
Game 1 had turn 3 kill with Scourge Devil. My opponent showed me Lotleth Troll and Zethalpa oO After thinking a little bit I asked judge for Soulflayer wording. I was somewhat happy when my opponent actually played it
+2 Thoughtseize +2 Lightning Axe
-2 Darkblast, -1 Dakmor, -1 Neonate
Game 2 played early Thoughtseize to discard Soulflayer but opponent timely topdecked another one to make 4/4 with all abilities in a world. Can’t be killed, can’t race 4/4 double strike lifelinker
Game 3 after mull to 5 I had slow start and my opponent had time to finally assemble Soulflayer again.
R7 Tron 0-2
Game 1 I was on a draw, my skilled opponent played Wurmcoil on turn 3, Relic on turn 4 and Ugin turn 5. Well played bro
+2 Ancient Grudge +2 Thoughtseize +1 Nature’s Claim
-2 Darkblast -1 Dakmor, -1 Lightning Axe, -1 Conflagrate
Game 2 he had T1 Cage, I couldn’t find response and lost to Thought Knot Seer beats.
R8 Counters Company 2-0
Game 1 my opponent kept 1 lander, played only 2 Bops. I dredged Conflagrate GG
I didn’t know which one Bop deck is it so I sided in in a safe way.
+3 LIghtning Axe +2 Decay (If I knew he was on Druid combo I would side in Brutality in place of Decay)
Game 2 opponent leads with Bop, I played Darkblast. Turn 2 he played Hierarch, I replayed Darkblast. We tried to race with Finks + Duskwatch, but I overpowered him with DCAM.
R9 Grixis Shadow 2-1
Game 1 was relatively easy thanks to Scourge Devil. One more time GDS played played 2 Shadows, but Devil was too much damage for my opponent to pass up.
+3 LIghtning Axe +2 Decay
-1 Reunion -2 Darkblst -1 Fetchland -1 Neonate
Game 2 my opponent suprised me and played Leyline on turn 0 oO Killed me 5 turns later.
I switched my side plan:
-2 Decay -1 Axe
+3 Nature’s Claim
In game 3 my opponent probably focused too much on Leyline, he mulled to 4, found one and was sad becouse I kept 2 axes, 2 lands, Bloodghast, Neonate and Nature’s Claim
R 10 BR Hollow One 1-2
Game 1 mulled to 5 and bricked. My opponent also didn’t have anything spectacular and 2 Bloodghast killed me like it was weak draft deck.
Side from R5
Game 2 had strong start + Conflagrate for Hollow One and Adept. Easy game.
Game 3 my opponent found Leyline, I haven’t found any Claims in top 20 cards. Lost to Bloodghast beats.
R 11 Burn 2-0
Game 1 my opponent misspleyd and choosed to not kill me
+3 Brutality +1 Axe
-2 Darkblast - 1 Dakmor -1 Conflagrate
Game 2 had 2 Brutalities in opening, also my opponent choosed to bolt my Amalgams
R 12 Jeskai Control 2-0
Nothing to say here, I destroyed him. It’s so easy match up that I even nearly haven’t sideboarded a lot
R13 Jeskai Tempo 1-2
I played vs Sunkei Nakamura, easily won game 1but both game 2 and 3 he had Rest in Peace on turn 2 :/ I even sided in +2 Thoughtseize +2 Decay and -1 Reunion -1 Darkblast -1 Dakmor -1 Conflagrate, but I competily bricked, mulled to 4 and got destroyed :/
R 14 Jeskai Control 2-0
Game 1 was as always vs Jeskai - easy. But opponent showed me Ancestral Visions so i knew he was on hard control plan. So I had to adapt with my side plan.
+2 Brutality +2 Thoughtseize
-1 Axe, -1 Reunion, -1 Darkblast -1 Conflagrate.
Game 2 was kind of interesting. Turn 1 played Looting discarding Loam and Amalgam, opponent played Surgical on Amalgam. Whatever, it’s just 3/3 guy
R 15 Humans 2-0
Game 1 I had good Dredge start, and quick Conflagrate killed enough creatures to break humans critical mass. Easy win.
+3 Axes +2 Decay
-1 Loam, -1 Reunion - 1 Dakmor - 2 Neonate
Game 2 was much more grindy, I chumped a lot with Narcomoebas and Thug. Stinkweed Imp helped to stabilize board. Opponent played Meddling Mage on Conflag but I finally found Darkblast to start killing his Phantasmal Images. Finally won with Imps and DCAM.
I ended 100th and didn’t cash on tie breakers :/ But still it was my best finish on Grand Prix. I lost only to Soulflayer (it is still so funny to me
@lvg I also have problems with Tron, only tech I got is Pithing Needle but I don't know if it's good enough to be in my 75.
All Shadow decks, Abzan, Burn, Affinity, Humans, Eldrazi Tron, Gifts Storm, Hatebears, Hollow One, Company Decks and so on. In all mentioned match ups Lightning Axe will be great, at least in game 1.
Also vs spell based decks Lightnign Axe will be "ok". Vs Titanshift it can clear way killing Sakura. Vs Jeskai/UW can kill Spell Queler or late Collonade.
Maybe it's time to play 2 main?
3 Lightning Axe
3 Collective Brutality
3 Nature's Claim
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
Abour my sideboard: I love Lightning Axe, there was a time when I was playing 4 copies side. Right now I don't have much spece to play full playset but I won't go below 3, they are too good.
3 Collective Brutalities are good becouse of Burn popularity. I have 60% win rate vs Burn but I feel I still need another card in that match up. I'm considering playing Gnaw to the Bone to lock games vs Burn.
My only flex slots are Thoughtseizes. don't get me wrong - they are great magic cards - but they don't fit so well to Dredge gameplan. Maybe i'll swap 1 Thoughtseie with 1 Gnaw..
I think you want to respond to everything an opponent could have. Siding Duress vs Affinity or Burn when you already have much better cards in both match up only becouse you fear that they will play Rest in Peace. In my opinion it's not how you will increase win percentage. You can't oversidebaord and you should response to opponents' main gameplay in first place. For example - Nature's Claim and Grudge will be better vs Affinity than Duress, it's better to play more artifact destruction than responses to their 2 off RiP. If they have it - they are good magic players and you probably will have game 3 to try again
The same goes to grave hate - it's not even that good vs Storm. I found that discard spells are better becouse they can also interact with Empty the Warrens or Grapeshot + Remand plan. Grave hate is only good vs mirror and it's so unlikely that you will play one that it's better tot sacrifice mirror match to increase other match ups.
My tips:
1. Play Nature's Claim only if u suspect Leyline of the Void or Rest in Peace/Grafdigger's Cage in slower match ups (like UW Control). Don't side in vs Relics or Nihil Spellmoboms. They will crack it in response to your Claim and you will be sad that u spent card on it.
2. Side in 3 Axes 2 Decays is good vs most creature decks. It's plan vs Humans, BGx, Shadows, fair Company decks and so on. Just kill their creatures, slow their clock and build card advantage with Dredge mechanic. Don't side in Grudges/Claims only becouse they have 1-2 Grafdigger's Cage in sideboard - you already have 2 Decays to response it and they more often won't have Cage and losing to Tarmogoyf or Mantis Rider beats when you have Claim in hand it's the worst feeling ever.
3. it's general correct to side in all discard spells vs spell based combo decks but don't be afraid to experiment with unusual lines - for example vs Madcap Moon it's better to side in Ancient Grudges than 4-5th discard spells. Do whatever you like but don't break golden rule - don't oversideboard. Setting up clock is more important than disruption, with discard spells but no clock they will easily rebuild.
I'll also play Dredge at GP Lyon, maybe u could share what's your sideboard look like?
1. They will likely have also discard spells to get rid of Pulse.
2. All decks with Leyline in sideboard will set up a clock. Mardu with Young Pyromancer, Hollow One with many threats, 8 rack will destroy your hand till turn 3. Even if you play Pulse on time u won't do enough dredges to assemble our grave engine. Dredge it's not storm to kill out of nowhere, we need time to find more creatures than opponent can cast. We need to cast 1-2 Loams to make sure we will have landdrops and/or big Conflagrate. We even need time to untap with some Amalgams to block if we are behind (and we will be if we give our opponent 3 Time Walks). Maelstrom Pulse is a great "catch all" card, but if you want to fight with Leyline u should play Nature's Claims. I usually play 3, sometimes even 4, they are great! And 4 life is much less cost than giving 2 Time Walks to our opponent.
1. Devil is uncounterable. It's VERY important vs Shadow decks and Jeskai/UW.
2. By itself deals 4 dmg - rally 0. Rally gives you more damage if you have 5 or more creatures. If we already he so many we should win no matter which pump spell we use. And that 4 dmg can kill from nowhere or pressure Planeswalkers (useful vs Tron with Karn/Ugin and Jace, Architect of Thought).
3. Devil is better if opponent has removal spells in hand to combat our overrun effect. The most important is vs Shadow and Jeskai. it's better to have more creatures wirh less power than less but bigger creatures. Bolt effects will kill anything, push all our regular creatures (but Devil is immune to Push :p) so it's better to force them to kill more stuff.
4. Devil can return Amalgams from graveyard. It's important vs Surgical decks.
5. It's a creature
Pro tip - when opponent is at 10 our Bloodghasts gain haste. 2 Ghasts + devil is exectly 10. It's uncounterable way to deal lehtla dmg out from nowhere.
Of course Rally also have some pluses:
1. It's on instant speed so we can force opponent to make bad blocks becouse Rally is fear.
2. Instant speed effect is useful vs Lantern. For example with bridge in play and 1 card in opponent's hand we can attack with Narcomoebas and hardcasted dredges and after declaring attackers we can pump and attack for much more.
3. In lategame with 6 mana we can give our creatures +4+0. hardcast than flashback. Personally did it once, as classic win more ;p
After more than 1000 mathces on MTGO with 65% win ratio I can safely say that Devil is the best "combat trick card" in Dredge. Haunted Dead, Rally the Peasants or even Driven//Despair - they all have some advantages and disadvantages but overall Devil many times showed me that he deserves his slot.
If you want to play any grave hate - play Leyline.
1. Artifact hate which sacrifice to exile grave (Relic, Nihil Spellbomb, Tormod's Crypt ect) - ignore and hope for the best. If you think they have it lead with Insolent Neonate - you can wait for end of opponents turn to sac him, extra information will often decide between win and lose. If it sticks and it's on thew battlefield try not to use discard outlets and dredge Loams and Imps to oblivion - Narcomoeba's and Bloodghast's triggers will eventually force them to pop out hate cards. Nice trick - if u can keep fetchland on battlefield to have ability to return Bloodghasts in resp to their cracking artifacts.
2. Scavenging Ooze - keep removal in hand, if you have 3 red mana on table don't discard Conflagrate since you can play conflagrate for x=0 and then flashback for a lot killing Scooze - they won't have time to exile Conflag.
3. Graffdigger's Cage - we need to find artifact hate but can easily discard our Dredgers, Bloodghasts and Amalgams. Dig and find something to destroy it. Important note - if you play against for example Jund and they can have 1 Cage in sidebaord don't side in narrow cards for it like Nature's Claim, if they have it they are better players and we sometimes lose. Or we can draw Abrupt Decay/Pulse which are catch all answers to everything they can have.
4. Rest in Peace - yolo, maybe they don't have it. If you are lucky and draw antihate in opening you can wait with for example Looting for a turn to check if they have it.
5. Surgical Extraction - we don't care, sometimes ***** happens. Only playing aroudn we have is to play fetchland to protect Bloodghast being exiled - in resp o Extraction we can crack fetch and return Bloodghasts before Extraction resolve.
6. Ravenous Trap, Faerie Macabre - total yolo, play like they don't have it.
7. Leyline of the Void - only exception. If you know they have it after sideabord (for example you are playing vs 8 rack, BW control or Mardu) mulligan aggresivaly for Claim/Pulse (to be honest Pulse is terrible vs Leyline becouse all Black Leyline decks are decks with a lot of discard, we will lose Pulse before playing third land).
About Reunion there are 3 main situations when we are sididng out Catharic Reunions:
1. They have a lot of countermagic like Negate, Spell Snare, Denial, Spell Pierce, Remand on draw and so on.
2. They have tax effects like Thalia.
3. We need to be very lucky, need to side out a lot of cards and Insolent Neonate with Imp will have more chances to put more power to battlefield on turn 2. But to be honest this situation is really uncommon.
I played Modern on MKM Series in Prague with Dredge. There were 296 players, I ended in finals and lost to RG Titan.
My list:
Main Deck:
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Bloodghast
4 Narcomoeba
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Faithless Looting
4 Cathartic Reunion
4 Life from the Loam
1 Darkblast
3 Conflagrate
1 Driven // Despair
3 Copperline Gorge
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Stomping Ground
2 Blood Crypt
2 Mountain
1 Gemstone Mine
2 Dakmor Salvage
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard:
4 Nature's Claim
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Driven // Despair
3 Lightning Axe
3 Collective Brutality
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
My friends told me day before that on big trial there were a lot of affinity and Company decks so I changed my Amulet Titan deck for Dredge. Couple thoughts about my 75:
1. I'm a big fan of Driven//Despair. I was 100% sure that it's much better than Thoughtseize in sideboard and I wanted 2 copies for game 2 and 3 against combo and ramp decks. Playing 1 main in Scourge Devil's place was last minute addition. Driven main was good, it won me 2 games by discarding opponent's whole hand.
2. Maindeck should still have Scourge Devil, I don't know where I should look for extra space for him.
3. I like having 4 claims side - it's the cheapest response to hard hate - Leyline, Rip and Cage, of course don't side them against for example Nihil Spellbombs or lone Relics. Other alternatives like Maelstorm Pulse are too slow - it will destroy hate but our opponent would be so far ahead that we usually won't return from this.
4. Driven//Despair solve so many problems that could shave cards dedicated to combo decks. I got extra slots and focused on having more removal to creatures. Lightning Axes overperformed, lone Pharaoh was too clunky, that should be something else.
5. Collective Brutality was like always very good, with 3 Axes they created nice side plan against creature decks like Coco.
To be honest I was lucky and dodged bad match ups like Storm or Ad Nauseam.
Match ups:
R1 Affinity 2-1
R2 Grixis Delver 2-0 - Despair won game 1, it let me dodge blocking Tasigur and discard 4 cards from opponents hand.
R3 Counters Company 2-0
R4 Affinity 2-1
R5 Eldrazi Tron 0-2 - he knew what I was playing and on a play kept 2 lander with 2 Relics
R6 Grixis Shadow 2-1 - Game 3 I won through Grafdiggers Cage played on turn 1. He drew 3 Delve Creatures, I drew 3 Lightning Axes
R7 Eldrazi Tron 2-0 - luckily G1 without hate and game 2 he kept bad hand with Cage but I had Claim.
R8 Counters Company 2-0
R9 Counters Company 2-0 - game 1 Driven was my only out to my opponents plan - he had 4 cards in hand, 4 lands and Hierarch on play and pass. I realised that he wanted to play Chord in endstep and combo me next turn. I didn't have lethal in my turn but Dredged Driven//Despair. I forced him to discard Vizier, Eternal Witness and blank, on endstep he played Chord but without more gas he conceded.
1/4 RG Tytan 2-1 - in game 3 my opponent lost his hand on turn 4 becouse of Despair
1/2 Grixis Shadow 2-0 - you can read about both semis and final on MKM Modern coverage.
Final RG Tytan 0-2 - in game 2 I was on mull to 5 but managed to have 3 Bloodghasts and Narcomoeba on turn 2 and turn 3 I casted Driven to draw 4 cards and was so exited that I did this that I forgot to write down that my opponent lost 7 life
Overall deck was great, I saw very little grave hate. Maybe players on MTGO will shave their grave hate and will focus on other match ups? We will see