Your pretty much right, if your meta is just combos, it makes sense to respond with targeted discards against them. My meta's more response and tactical, so we have a bit slower but more build up early on. But if you are going to go stax, there are way better commanders for a "competitive" meta, like Hanna, Ship's Navigator or Gaddock Teeg
versus responsive decks if you're trying to antitoolbox then Land Destruction and cards like Jester's Cap are what you need. Gruul really isn't the best colors to antitoolbox though, black would be, seconded by blue.
Yeah I had a Wrexial Deck, but it lacked power. It was definitely mean, exiling killing and stealing all sorts of stuff but never really won. Maybe I should just look into the old build again.
To tell you honestly, this list bites. Run mana rocks then blow-up lands so you won't be screwed unlike your opponents. Utilize more draw and card advantage like Mind's Eye & Garruk, Primal Hunter or this'll run out of steam easily. Birthing Pod & Mimic Vat are good options to spam ETB effects.
My playgroup is all response decks, if I did that, it'd work once or twice, then all my stuff would be blown up permanently. So your idea, honestly, isn't any good.
I'm trying to design a controlled explosion type deck that goes boom on my command, not when I've pumped out enough mana rocks.
SOOOO here's my decklist for a Gruul deck. I was trying to build an anti-ramp/control/toolbox deck (its the meta here ) and came up with this. The idea here is to tactically board-wipe and place aggro on the field (expected to be removed) so that you can end out on top in mid-game...at least that's what I was going for in my head.
So if you respond, please respond to these prompts.
1) Can anti-toolbox/ramp/control be done?
2) Am I doing it right? (right colors, commander, etc)
3) Suggestions
Note: I might do stax as a seperate thing, but I like this idea too
I think for my decklist mirror-sigil would see a TON of blue coming out, remember it's a blue permanent, not blue creature.
Momir I think is out for 3-colors though.
Wow not bad at all! I'm having trouble getting the idea fully rolling yet, but this helps a bundle.
Two cards I wanna know why your not using:
1) Mirror-sigil sergeant
2) Momir Vig
I thought Mirror-sigil would be perfect for a deck like this, getting 2^n 4/4 tramplers per turn, where n is the number of upkeeps you've had
Momir just seems like a fun little way to yank out annoying cards like A-slime and Maybe Stonecloaker
Also curious, have you considered trying to do extra turn/ upkeep shenanigans? I know there's one or two cards that give more upkeeps, just thought that might be a route to go.
Just throwing this decklist here for now with a few quick notes. It's currently very early in the morning where I live and I'm nodding off as I type this, so I'll beautify and expand this thread later tomorrow when I have the time.
My budget is not to be considered (my group allows proxies), nor is "meanness," my playgroup is competitive and we play mean like it's going out of style.
Contamination is in the sideboard. Some matchups a contamination lock ends the game immediately, other games a contamination lock doesn't actually faze anyone because, for example, they already have mana rocks to fix to their other colors or something.
oppression is mean and stings response decks, and you can even get fun little tricks out of it, like casting animate dead in order to bring back the card you discard to it.
I think your core is pretty strong though. There's a primer I believe called "Death Cloud 9" on here that's probably better for general purposes (Mines built for drazi's) It's less gimicky than mine, so be sure to look at that one too.
I had originally decided against it, but upon seeing your thread I am giving it some more thought. I have to focus the deck a little bit. The first time I planned it it was too spread and janky.
My main concern is "will the deck be able to win." While the deck does pump out a good amount of creatures, but not a lot in comparison to a GW deck. Also adding a third color further restricts slot because you have to add in more ramp cards. Have you had fairly good runs with the deck, meaning have you been able to deal enough damage in a multiplayer game to win?
Also, as much as I love Mirror-Sigil Sergeant, I don't think there are enough blue permanents available to make him very good. This of course depends on your deck.
I haven't play tested the deck yet; but I've looked at sample hands, and it's pretty rough. Getting the right amount of mana for each card is still complicated, but since it's pumping out special tokens it doesn't need to have so many tokens. 3 Mirror-sigil sergeants becomes 6, so adding 12 points of power is pretty strong.
Also tutoring out biovisionary and spitting out 3 other copies is a viable option-if cheap.
I will admit the deck is much harder to build than a simpleton G/W deck, but I think the cloning aspect will make it much more interesting.
In fact I had a thread about this earlier, should be worth a peruse or two.
Thanks a bunch for the link! The material looks pretty good. Did you choose to stay G/w or go U? I think U would be better, it gives better access to "heavy" clones like acidic slime, t-don, and mirror-sigil
@ Isbpathfinder: Sorry, I don't know how to transfer from mtgdeck to this site, if you could tell me how I'd appreciate!
Commander Choice?
It should be noted that this deck does NOT have any focus on the general, so even Rafiq could be used here. I think that he's probably the worst choice for an aggro-y deck like this however, Treva, Rubinia, and Angus would at least perform some kind of assistive ability to the deck, especially Rubinia.
The Strategy?
The trick here is to create token copies of creatures, and populate those creatures with things like followed footsteps and the various Selesnya populate mechanics.
Then summon various defensive enchantments/creatures
This deck is built to have a moderate strength at all points of the game, but no full strength at any one point, so you have to hate out the combo-players early.
This is a rough draft fyi, so suggestions appreciated!
I've been throwing eldrazi into all my decks trying to find a feel for them, and I think B/G is the combo to do it. With this deck, I can grind or blast everybody down to a few permanents, then safely beat down with the eldrazi as a finisher. I believe the best way to defend the eldrazi is not to protect them with shroud/indestructible, but to remove the enemies responses/ capacity to respond.
Drop a comment and tell me what you think! Thanks!
In essense the same as death cloud; forbidden ritual only works against one opponent, but a sufficient board position will push that person into a critical state, if not kill him outright.
Nath's ability to make tokens while forcing discard is pretty subtle, cards like mindslicer and black myojin act as huge deterrents to attacks, and let you slowly take over the course of the game.
I'm sure you may be wondering,
Why the eldrazi?
Because I love the eldrazi, and I think the eldrazi reach their best "real" potential in a 4 person FFA
Card considerations, critiques, and considerations welcome!
Hi all, im building a Rubinia, Soul Singer deck (Bant) for the eldrazi here, and all that's needed is the trimmings! Any reccomends to take out/put in appreciated
Standard Blinking abilities
Indestructibility
Long Range Winnings
My decks usually lack steam in the end game, I think Bant has enough potential to have strength in the late game, since our group usually ends the game with infinite combos to compensate for lack of steam.
Noteworthy card: That which was taken
This card is insane for my playgroup simply because we have nearly 0 methods of "Exiling" artifacts and enchantments, so putting one of these counters on something like ghostly prison makes you a very irritating enemy to deal with.
Eldrazi cards: I wont take out any of these eldrazi, these are the "main men" of the deck. I believe this playstyle most effectively uses them (In end game, no steam situations)
I've also considered using the other legendary bant commander that regenerates creatures
Originally It was Geth (My favorite Black card) but I changed it since
1) Needs an armada of mana to be useful
2) Homeward path effects
I think Sheoldred is generally better (pun-pun) and provides a little staxish effects/support of her own.
The deck aims to:
1) Be fun/challenging to play/play against
2) Be able to beat Johhny Combo
3) Not have any cards over 30 bucks
Creatures:
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
Liutenant:
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
Creatures:
1 Magus of the Coffers
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Soldevi Adnate
1 Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Ogre Slumlord
1 Slum Reaper
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Junk Diver
1 Myr Retriever
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Nether Traitor
1 Bloodghast
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
1 Grave Titan
1 Pawn of Ulamog
1 Netherborn Phalanx
Enchantments:
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Gate to Phyrexia
1 Bitterblossom
1 Contamination
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Infernal Tribute
7 Enchantments
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Thornbite Staff
1 Sol Ring
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Grave Pact
1 Tangle Wire
1 Smokestack
1 Trading Post
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Skullclamp
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Druidic Satchel
1 Armillary Sphere
1 Mycosynth Wellspring
1 Ichor Wellspring
1 Claws of Gix
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Praetor's Grasp
1 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Increasing Ambition
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Shred Memory
1 Grim Discovery
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Ashes to Ashes
1 All Is Dust
38 Lands
1 Deserted Temple
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Scrying Sheets
30 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Strip Mine
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Wasteland
1 Petrified Field
Some game ending combos are:
Mikaeus, The Unhallowed+ Puppeteer Clique+Ashnod's Altar =infinite colorless+steal all graveyards infinitely
OR
Mikaeus, The Unhallowed+ Grave Titan+ Phyrexian Altar/Ashnod's Altar= Infinite Mana (colored/uncolored)
Throw in Spine of Ish Sah+ Infernal Tribute/Claws of Gix and you vindicate the board
Soldevi Adnate/Magus of the Coffers+ Thornbite Staff+Creature w/CMC 4++ Nim Deathmantle= infinite recursion
This also gives infinite black mana if the creature is mana 5+, or mikaeus and 3+
So there you have it, comments/ suggestions welcome!
Yeah I had a Wrexial Deck, but it lacked power. It was definitely mean, exiling killing and stealing all sorts of stuff but never really won. Maybe I should just look into the old build again.
My playgroup is all response decks, if I did that, it'd work once or twice, then all my stuff would be blown up permanently. So your idea, honestly, isn't any good.
I'm trying to design a controlled explosion type deck that goes boom on my command, not when I've pumped out enough mana rocks.
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
19 Forest
1 Command Tower
37 Lands
1 Radha, Heir to Keld
1 Legion Loyalist
1 Dragonlair Spider
1 Dragon Broodmother
1 Mycoloth
1 Anger
1 Hellkite Charger
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Deus of Calamity
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Eternal Witness
1 Wort, the Raidmother
1 Acidic Slime
1 Terastodon
1 Deadwood Treefolk
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Conquering Manticore
1 Anarchist
1 Charmbreaker devils
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Duplicant
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Brutalizer Exarch
1 Keeper of Progenitus
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
28 Creatures
1 Fervor
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Aggravated Assault
1 Nature's Will
1 Bear Umbra
1 Restock
1 Reap and Sow
1 Frenzied Tilling
1 Wild Ricochet
1 Skullclamp
1 Momentous Fall
1 Natural Balance
1 Nature's Wrath
1 Runes of the Deus
1 Savage Beating
1 Decimate
1 Domri Rade
1 Molten Disaster
1 Krosan Grip
1 Word of Seizing
1 Creeping Renaissance
1 Wake of Destruction
1 Decree of Annihilation
1 Primal Command
1 Incendiary Command
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Harmonize
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Insurrection
1 Vedalken Orrery
1 Dual Nature
1 Blood Moon
1 Ruination
SOOOO here's my decklist for a Gruul deck. I was trying to build an anti-ramp/control/toolbox deck (its the meta here ) and came up with this. The idea here is to tactically board-wipe and place aggro on the field (expected to be removed) so that you can end out on top in mid-game...at least that's what I was going for in my head.
So if you respond, please respond to these prompts.
1) Can anti-toolbox/ramp/control be done?
2) Am I doing it right? (right colors, commander, etc)
3) Suggestions
Note: I might do stax as a seperate thing, but I like this idea too
Momir I think is out for 3-colors though.
-Momir
-Minion Reflector
+ Echo Chamber
+Rootborn Defenses
Two cards I wanna know why your not using:
1) Mirror-sigil sergeant
2) Momir Vig
I thought Mirror-sigil would be perfect for a deck like this, getting 2^n 4/4 tramplers per turn, where n is the number of upkeeps you've had
Momir just seems like a fun little way to yank out annoying cards like A-slime and Maybe Stonecloaker
Also curious, have you considered trying to do extra turn/ upkeep shenanigans? I know there's one or two cards that give more upkeeps, just thought that might be a route to go.
Not sure if your building this for multiplayer or single player, but I have a Nath deck I built to play Eldrazis, I suggest you take a look at it
http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/484402
I think your main weakness here is your targeted discard; it's cute, but ultimately less effective than group squeeze/discard.
For example, mind shatter and mind twist could be replaced with oppression and painful quandary
oppression is mean and stings response decks, and you can even get fun little tricks out of it, like casting animate dead in order to bring back the card you discard to it.
mindslicer and myojin of night's reach are must haves, and geth's grimoire is a good card for discard
Mana creatures (birds of paradise, llanowar elves tend to be fragile, so be careful with those. Joraga, Treespeaker is a slightly better card if you like elves
Since your running a discard deck, your going to be playing the graveyard too, so you'll need
a) Graveyard Shenanigans
b) Insane draw
some fun cards for a) include:
b) is a bit more obvious
I think your core is pretty strong though. There's a primer I believe called "Death Cloud 9" on here that's probably better for general purposes (Mines built for drazi's) It's less gimicky than mine, so be sure to look at that one too.
I haven't play tested the deck yet; but I've looked at sample hands, and it's pretty rough. Getting the right amount of mana for each card is still complicated, but since it's pumping out special tokens it doesn't need to have so many tokens. 3 Mirror-sigil sergeants becomes 6, so adding 12 points of power is pretty strong.
Also tutoring out biovisionary and spitting out 3 other copies is a viable option-if cheap.
I will admit the deck is much harder to build than a simpleton G/W deck, but I think the cloning aspect will make it much more interesting.
Thanks a bunch for the link! The material looks pretty good. Did you choose to stay G/w or go U? I think U would be better, it gives better access to "heavy" clones like acidic slime, t-don, and mirror-sigil
@ Isbpathfinder: Sorry, I don't know how to transfer from mtgdeck to this site, if you could tell me how I'd appreciate!
http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/497114
The commander:
Commander Choice?
It should be noted that this deck does NOT have any focus on the general, so even Rafiq could be used here. I think that he's probably the worst choice for an aggro-y deck like this however, Treva, Rubinia, and Angus would at least perform some kind of assistive ability to the deck, especially Rubinia.
The Strategy?
The trick here is to create token copies of creatures, and populate those creatures with things like followed footsteps and the various Selesnya populate mechanics.
Then summon various defensive enchantments/creatures
And continuously pressure players out one by one
Also, dont forget Biovisionary +Rite of Replication
Strengths and Weaknesses
The obvious strength of this deck is board position. Annoying cards like followed footsteps mirror-sigil sergeant and wayfaring temple all serve to spit out constant streams of
Acidic Slime Trygon Predator and Coiling Oracle
This deck is built to have a moderate strength at all points of the game, but no full strength at any one point, so you have to hate out the combo-players early.
This is a rough draft fyi, so suggestions appreciated!
This deck is pretty badass, but I'd like some pointers.
My group likes to play a lot of valuable one card bomb decks, using things like:
furystoke giant and Avacyn, Angel of Hope so I built this deck to:
-keep up with ramp
- cause heavy discard pain
-play my own one shot wonders, except they cant be recovered from (easily)
My main bullets are:
[CARD]Death cloud
[/CARD]
Vorinclex/Avenger of Zendikar+ G-wave
I've been throwing eldrazi into all my decks trying to find a feel for them, and I think B/G is the combo to do it. With this deck, I can grind or blast everybody down to a few permanents, then safely beat down with the eldrazi as a finisher. I believe the best way to defend the eldrazi is not to protect them with shroud/indestructible, but to remove the enemies responses/ capacity to respond.
Drop a comment and tell me what you think! Thanks!
This is my Nath build! Strangely it works pretty well.
Synergies:
It that Betrays + Death Cloud
Everybody loses their board positions, but you basically "steal" your opponents.
Genesis Wave+ Death Cloud/Forbidden Ritual
In essense the same as death cloud; forbidden ritual only works against one opponent, but a sufficient board position will push that person into a critical state, if not kill him outright.
Nath of the Gilt Leaf + Oppression/Geth's Grimoire
Nath's ability to make tokens while forcing discard is pretty subtle, cards like mindslicer and black myojin act as huge deterrents to attacks, and let you slowly take over the course of the game.
I'm sure you may be wondering,
Why the eldrazi?
Because I love the eldrazi, and I think the eldrazi reach their best "real" potential in a 4 person FFA
Card considerations, critiques, and considerations welcome!
http://mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/371844
The themes here are:
Standard Blinking abilities
Indestructibility
Long Range Winnings
My decks usually lack steam in the end game, I think Bant has enough potential to have strength in the late game, since our group usually ends the game with infinite combos to compensate for lack of steam.
Noteworthy card: That which was taken
This card is insane for my playgroup simply because we have nearly 0 methods of "Exiling" artifacts and enchantments, so putting one of these counters on something like ghostly prison makes you a very irritating enemy to deal with.
Eldrazi cards: I wont take out any of these eldrazi, these are the "main men" of the deck. I believe this playstyle most effectively uses them (In end game, no steam situations)
I've also considered using the other legendary bant commander that regenerates creatures
Thanks in advance!