You can't help how you feel nor would I tell you how to, but cheating implies intended deception. Are you planning on deceiving your players by using non-real versions or will they know? How is it actually cheating them and you? Will the feel of a 'fake' card be vastly different? If so, is that worth it? If not, is that still cheating when the play is all kitchen table? Is the value of the card worth more than the feeling of having the real card? How about worth more than the safety of knowing your investments can't be accidentally destroyed? What is stopping you morally from printing versions of the cards? Is the joy of playing with the real card worth the worrying of wasting money if they're accidentally destroyed? How out of place will the proxies look? How much of your enjoyment of cube is in using the real cards and having a collection vs. playing cube in general? How do you think you'd react if one of the cards was destroyed? Is that potential awful moment worse than the feeling of playing with the real cards? Is it enough to stop you?
These aren't questions you need to answer here, nor ones with a right answer since they are so individually dependent and not everyone is going to feel the same way about them based on a lot of factors, but they are questions I asked myself when making the full transition to only proxying cards going forward vs. buying them. At the end of the day it's your cube and your life, so you should do what makes you comfortable, but it's worth looking into why you're feeling a certain way and exploring all the avenues you go down when answering the proxy-or-not? question.
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Salmo posted a message on The Official Cube Discussion ThreadPosted in: The Cube Forum -
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Finn posted a message on [Deck] Death and TaxesNew to Death and Taxes? Looking for up-to-date info? Try Phil Gallagher's (medea) site for all things Death and Taxes:Posted in: Control
http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/
I. Introduction and Decklist
In development since Time Spiral came out, Death and Taxes has become a peculiar kind of control deck. But since it is mostly creatures doing the controlling (with disruption and tricks), it looks like little more than white weenie to the casual observer. The idea is to aggressively land creatures while creating a difficult environment for the opponent's deck to thrive in. "Taxes" refers to this kind of disruption. It never establishes complete control over the game though. The deck wins by delaying or negating elements of the opponent's strategy while its creatures nip at their life total. Games are intricate with many moving parts as Death and Taxes slows the game down to a grind.
Death and Taxes is not especially fast. The control is not particularly powerful. It does not have a killer combo finish. It does not even have any especially broken cards. What it does have is a strategy that dismantles the engines of other decks and the ability to coax them into playing its game, not their own. Against other decks that hope to win with "fair" creatures in aggro or aggro-control style, D+T offers a robust assortment of creatures that modify the rules just enough to keep opponents on their heels. Against "unfair" decks D+T is still formidable, using atypical cards and disruption styles that hit these decks where it hurts most. Really, only a few decks have the upper hand against D&T. Also, it seems that players have a hard time estimating the cumulative effect of the elements D+T brings to the table. You can expect most players who are not intimately familiar with the deck to continue to underestimate it even after seeing what it can do. See the matchups and video sections for details.
To pilot the deck close to its potential you have to have detailed knowledge of both your deck and your opponent's deck. Learning both your deck plus basically every deck you will face is a daunting task, especially in Legacy, but it is the nature of this deck to demand - and reward you for it. To assist all of you with this I will try to keep the matchup section up-to-date with the help of the other contributors.
As you can imagine, there are plenty of creatures that have the potential to see play in a deck as broad as this one. There may be references in this primer to cards that are not in the deck that follows. Feel free to experiment with any disruptive creatures you wish, but the decklists here will be pretty close to ideal for competitive Legacy.
Here is my current generic build to start withMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards Land
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Karakas
2 Horizon Canopy
9 Plains
4 Mother of Runes
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Flickerwisp
2 Mangara of CorondorOther Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Æther Vial
1 Sword of Fire and ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 BatterskullSide Board
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Fiend Hunter
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Cataclysm
2 Council's Judgment
2 Rest In Peace
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2013 Legacy Championship-winning build by Ari LaxMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards Land
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Karakas
8 Plains
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Fiend Hunter
3 Flickerwisp
2 Mangara of Corondor
3 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of ThrabenOther Spells
4 Æther Vial
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's JitteSide Board
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Rest in Peace
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Cursed Totem
1 Meekstone
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Sunlance
1 Serenity
1 Mindbreak Trap
GP Strasbourg-winning deck by Thomas Enevoldsen and Michael BondeMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards Lands
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Karakas
9 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Fiend Hunter
3 Flickerwisp
2 Mangara of Corondor
3 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of ThrabenOther Spells
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's JitteSide Board
2 Cataclysm
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gut Shot
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Rest in Peace
1 Sunlance
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
Being a mono-colored deck, it lacks the raw power of some of the many-color decks that you will be facing. But Legacy is perennially overloaded with decks trying to eke out every drop from their lands. This results in unstable manabases that can be ransacked. Death and Taxes arguably has the strongest mana denial suite in the format in part because it gets to use more of its lands to deprive those same greedy decks of their mana. This element alone will win plenty of games.
Ia. Budget Versions
Generally speaking, there is no way to build a budget version of this deck. The deck functions as a unit, and the expensive lands are as much a part of that as any other facet. For example, when you open a game on the play with Rishadan Port --> Aether Vial followed by turn 2 Karakas and then turn 3 Wasteland with Thalia coming in off the Vial, you have created a classic D&T environment. The taxation started on turn 2 (setting your opponent back to their mana supply as it was on turn 1) and became much more intensive on turn 3, putting you several turns out in front. Your opponent has to wait until at least turn 4 to zap Thalia since he is effectively down three mana at this point. By then you have Karakas and Vial untapped. Even if he has the removal, you can just pull Thalia back in your hand and Vial her back out before his removal spell even resolves. He is pinned and being attacked with no immediate way out. There are plenty of variations of this opening, but none of them work unless your lands contribute more than just mana. Tectonic Edge and Ghost Quarter don't count. Your lands prevent the opponent from getting his deck going while you set up and then disable his ability to easily break free. If you don't have Karakas, don't bother with Mangara. If you don't have Waste and Port, you do not have strong mana denial. At this point, your deck is missing the "Taxes". You are just playing White Weenie. That said, get Port, then Wasteland, then Karakas last.
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II. What makes it special?
This deck makes use of tricks of rules and timing in many common game scenarios. You can use the deck without taking advantage of these timing opportunities, but then you will not be playing the deck optimally. I am going to try to provide something close to an exhaustive list here to help.
Mangara soft lock is a simple, repeatable removal tool. You are going to find that opponents will stop at nothing to rid themselves of Mangara once they understand what he can do. This will almost always be true even if you don't consider him to be your best tool at the moment. Mangara hardcast on turn four with Karakas still untapped is usually a superior play to Mangara on turn three using Karakas for mana.
1. How does the Mangara soft lock work?
You tap him and return him with Karakas or "flicker" him from play with the Flickerwisp while his ability is on the stack. He will remove a permanent from the game and not himself if he is off the battlefield when his ability resolves. Do not tap Mangara and ask "OK?". You have to respond with the unsummon or flicker effect before you ask for a response or a savvy opponent will simply do nothing and you will not get a chance to.
2. If you are removing mana sources, do it on your own turn whenever possible.
3. If you are trying to maximize instead, consider something like this:
-a. block a Nimble Mongoose
-b. tap to remove an attacking Tarmogoyf from the game
-c. use Karakas or Flickerwisp to circumvent Mangara removing himself from the game
1. Vial it in to save Mangara or Grunt from themselves.
2. Hardcast it to "untap" one of your creatures after combat.
3. Vial it in to "Port" an opponent's land on their upkeep or (even better) at your own end of turn step.
4. Hardcast it targeting your own land to make it essentially only cost two mana.
5. Hardcast it to remove a blocker.
6. Vial it in to prevent an opposing creature from attacking for a turn.
7. Vial it in to take out Counterbalance so you can cast a spell.
8. Vial it in to counter a removal spell from your opponent.
9. Vial it in to temporarily remove Standstill.
10. Hardcast it to make a Phyrexian Dreadnought look silly.
11. Hardcast it removing Vial, Chalice, or Engineered Explosives to remove all counters. {snicker}
12. Hardcast it targeting Stoneforge Mystic to get extra equipment.
13. Hardcast it targeting another Flickerwisp to have the other Flickerwisp remove a permanent for the entire next turn.
14. Vial it in to rescue your chump blocker.
15. Hardcast it to switch your Phyrexian Revoker, Oblivion Ring, Runed Halo, or Leonin Relic-Warder from one target to another.
16. Hardcast it to essentially take out a Mox Diamond (or Chrome Mox).
17. Hardcast it to "rebirth" a germ token by targeting an unequipped Batterskull.
18. Vial it in to abuse the hell out of Oblivion Ring, Journey to Nowhere, Leonin Relic-Warder, or similar cards. Here's how:
a. Cast Oblivion Ring.
b. With it's exile trigger on the stack (targeting, say, a Siege-Gang Commander), activate Aether Vial.
stack = 1. exile SGC (O-ring trigger) 2. Vial activation
c. Vial resolves. Vial in the Flickerwisp. Put its ability on the stack targeting your own Oblivion Ring.
stack = 1. exile SGC 2. exile O-ring (wisp trigger)
d. Flickerwisp's ability resolves exiling Oblivion Ring. Oblivion Ring's second ability goes on the stack.
stack = 1. exile SGC 2. return SGC (O-ring trigger)
e. Oblivion Ring's second ability resolves, returning the Siege-Gang Commander to the battlefield, which, of course never left in the first place - so nothing happens.
stack = 1. exile SGC
f. Oblivion Ring's first ability then resolves, exiling Siege-Gang Commander permanently (since the return trigger already resolved).
g. At the beginning of your end step, Flickerwisp's delayed trigger returns Oblivion Ring to the battlefield, exiling another nonland permanent as normal.
1. Like Mangara, Thalia can be returned to your hand simply by tapping Karakas at any time.
2. Thalia has first strike, so she can deal combat damage and be returned to hand before receiving damage. With a Sword of Fire and Ice that means that she can inflict up to six points of damage and not take damage in return.
3. If she is carrying a Jitte, she can deal combat damage, get counters on the Jitte, and use them before any other creatures deal damage. She could use the counters to buff her defense before that attacker deals damage or deal additional damage to kill the attacker before it deals its damage back to her. She can even use the counters to kill a different attacker before it deals its damage. Or you can gain four life before taking combat damage to your life total, which is a weakness of Jitte used with other creatures.
Phyrexian Revoker.
This little guy is a powerhouse. An improved Pithing Needle with an aggressive 2/1 body. Almost every legacy deck has nonland permanents with nifty (or even game-breaking) abilities, and Revoker can turn them off while smashing face. Opponents loathe him once they realize what he does (beyond just turn off stuff), and if he has Mom backup he becomes a serious problem. In fact, in certain matchups I'd say Revoker is our strongest card--more so than Thalia, Mangara or even Swords to Plowshares.
Before we get to his myriad uses, let's first deconstruct what makes this card so versatile.
First, his color--or lack thereof. With the prevalence of Mother of Runes in Maverick decks (as well as out own), Revoker becomes a stellar blocker. If he has a Sword of Light and Shadow attached to him and he's stifling a Qasali Pridemage, we have essentially won against Maverick--on top of gaining the ability to block an 11/11 Knight of the Reliquary all day long. Revoker also sticks around if a Dread of Night, Sulfur Elemental or Virtue's Ruin hits, and trades with [CARD]
Etched Champion[/CARD] (some of these obviously being niche cases but nevertheless uses).
Second, his body: 2/1 means that he loves to attack. Sadly, like many of the creatures in our deck, this also means he hates Forked Bolt or Golgari Charm effects, and dies if he's blocked by anything. However, if you give him a sword, Revoker's a champ, and the +1 power he has over, say, Stoneforge Mystic is what helps you keep your clock spinning.
Lastly, his ability: Revoker's wording, like Mangara of Corondor's, makes him particularly difficult to handle, especially for opponent who like to say "In Response...". Here's the wording as it is printed:
As Phyrexian Revoker enters the battlefield, name a nonland card.
Activated abilities of sources with the chosen name can't be activated.
As it enters--not when. There's no triggering, so there's nothing to respond to. That is to say, if an opponent has a Grim Lavamancer, two cards in his or her graveyard and a mountain untapped and you cast Revoker, they cannot burn the Revoker using the Lavamancer's ability.
Similarly, let's say your opponent casts Show and Tell. They choose Griselbrand; you choose Revoker. You can name Griselbrand as both come into play, and they cannot draw seven using Griselbrand's ability.
Revoker also stops mana abilites like Lion's Eye Diamond and Elvish Spirit Guide. This is actually very relevant, and allows us to hit mana denial beyond lands. Again, this is why I argue that Revoker is our most versatile weapon in the deck, right behind Flickerwisp.
Alright, now that we understand Revoker's subtle complexities, let's move onto his application. As I stated earlier, nearly every deck in Legacy has permanents that Revoker can turn off, crippling those decks midly to severely. Here is the beginning of what I hope to be an exhaustive list of Revoker-relevant matchups, sorted by number of targets and the priority of what should be "revoked."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
GWx Maverick
Start with Qasali Pridemage if you're blindly revoking. QP is that deck's only maindeck artifact hate. However, like all of our matchups, you need to study what you opponent is doing in order to make your best possible plays. Is the Mav pilot stuck on a single forest and 3 Noble Hierarchs or Deathrite Shamans? Cut off his mana supply. Is he clobbering you with unblockable fatties via Mom, or preventing STP with a Sylvan Safekeeper? Revoke them.
Short List:
Qasali Pridemage, Knight of the Reliquary, Noble Hierarch/Deathrite Shaman/Birds of Paradise, Scryb Ranger, Umezawa's Jitte, Mother of Runes, Sylvan Safekeeper, Scavenging Ooze.
UWx Stoneblade
Like Maverick, Stoneblade is another deck with plenty of targets, but you need to weed out which ones are priority. Did they go for the turn-2 SFM-Batterskull, or the turn-5 SFM-Batterskull? Do you have removal, or a means to stop Batterskull from being a problem? If they went for the early Mystic-Skull combo, revoke the Mystic; later, Batterskull. Umezawa's Jitte and (if they run it) a "Sword of X and Y" should also be your targets. Jace the Mind Sculptor is also a problem if not dealt with, and should be revoked to hinder their JMS-ultimate alt-win. With the printing of the stomach-churning True-Name Nemesis, Umezawa's Jitte has become a higher priority target.
Short List:
Stoneforge Mystic, Umezawa's Jitte, Engineered Explosives (only in Esper builds) Batterskull, Jace the Mind Sculptor, other equipment and planeswalkers as needed.
Affinity
All builds of Affinity use Cranial Plating. Tell them to knock it off. Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas is also a real jerk, and once you've cut them off that, go for their Arcbound Ravagers Moxen, Springleaf Drums, and basically anything else you see that might be relevant.
Short List:
Cranial Plating, Tezzerret, Agent of Bolas, Arcbound Ravager (less used nowadays), other relevant goodies.
Elves
Only matchup I can think of with too many targets. It's going to be situational and, honestly, this is where having good instincts and lots of experience piloting the deck help. Heritage Druid is okay on a blind revoke, but Priest of Titania/Elvish Archdruid are good to grab after. Quirion Ranger and Wirewood Symbiote round up your targets.
Short List: Heritage Druid, Priest of Titania, Elvish Archdruid, Quirion Ranger, Wirewood Symbiote, any of the other mana dweebs they run.
Jund
This matchup is a 7-10 split. Do you choose Deathrite Shaman to cut them off mana stability and utility? Or do you turn off Liliana of the Veil, one of their best trump cards against us? The answer is never going to be an easy one, but air on the side of Liliana first unless they are obviously relying on Deathrite and you lack removal for it.
Short List:
Liliana of the Veil, Deathrite Shaman
Shardless BUG
This one is similar to the Jund matchup, but you have Jace, the Mind Sculptor in the mix. Here Liliana is generally more relied upon, however, due to a lack of removal, with most Shardless decks running four Abrupt Decay and maybe one Maelstrom Pulse. As such, revoke Lilly first (unless, as with the Jund section above, you see them leaning on Deathrite). Jace and Deathrite are your two remaining targets, so choose them wisely. If they're going for Goyf/Tarpit beats, shutdown the shaman to stymie their assault; if they're going for a more Jace-centric win (or just brainstormming for free), make sure you remind them that you like your deck just the way it is. Remember: this deck is all about understanding your opponent's deck and strategy and becoming a foil to that; find a pressure point and strike!
Short List:
Liliana of the Veil, Jace the Mind Sculptor, Deathrite Shaman
UWr Delver
There's only two things Revoker cares about in this matchup: Grim Lavamancer (post-board) and Umezawa's Jitte. Stoneforge is also relevant, but Batterskull isn't a card we typically fear. Jitte is usually their first grab with SFM against us anyway.
Short List:
Grim Lavamancer, Umezawa's Jitte, Stoneforge Mystic.
Death & Taxes
With the recent explosion of popularity and success our deck has been experiencing, naturally we should begin to expect the mirror match more often, especially at Opens and GPs. The mirror is, like all mirrors, awkward; often Revoker on both sides will make both of your decks play dumb. If you manage to get a Revoker out first, look at how they are playing: is it early and they're relying on an Aether Vial? Or are they going more aggro, relying on equipment? Read your opponent as best as you can (they'll be doing the same) and utilize your Revokers as best as you can. Remember: Revoker can also serve as a lightning rod! Revoke something crucial to your opponent if you're holding back a trump like Crusader or Mangara.
Short List (somewhat ordered by relevance):
Aether Vial, Umezawa's Jitte, Mother of Runes, Stoneforge Mystic, Mangara of Corondor, Sword of Fire and Ice
Goblins
Krenko, Mob Boss is your best bet going blind. Beware Goblin Sharpshooter, as he will blow you out. Combined with Skirk Prospector, shooter can wipe out your dudes easily. Siege-Gang Commander is also a problem if not dealt with, and revoking their Aether Vial can choke up their goblin production. Grab Gempalm Incinerator to prevent their best source of removal.
Short List:
Krenko, Mob Boss, Gempalm Incinerator, Goblin Sharpshooter, Siege-Gang Commander, Skirk Prospector.
Fish
Cursecatcher notwithstanding, you're left with Coralhelm Commander and Aether Vial as your targets. Its up to you to decide what is more relevant--the fish player having access to a vial or you.
Short List:
Coralhelm Commander, Aether Vial
NicFit
Depending on the build, there are multiple variants of this deck to prepare against, but all run Pernicious Deed and Liliana of the Veil. Stop them first. Wickerbough Elder is used in non-white variants, QP is white-splashers. Revoke a Sensei's Diving Top early in the game to cut them off from their only means of draw correction. Recurring Nightmare is a late-game target to consider as well.
Short List:
Pernicious Deed, Liliana of the Veil, Sensei's Diving Top, Qasali Pridemage/Wickerbough Elder, Recurring Nightmare.
MiracleTop
Go for their Top first, then their JMS. Otherwise, this deck has literally no other targets.
Short List:
Sensei's Diving Top, Jace the Mind Sculptor
Sneak & Show
Another deck with few targets, but they're much more of a pain to deal with if not shut down: Griselbrand and Sneak Attack. Fortunately, Show & Tell allows us a chance to play revoker for free--and, in my opinion, he should always be your shown and told permanent. You can grab Lotus Petal, but it's a waste of a revoker.
Short List:
Griselbrand, Sneak Attack.
Dredge
Lion's Eye Diamond is your first target. Putrid Imp is good if you want to take away a discard outlet, but it's overkill at that point.
Short List:
Lion's Eye Diamond, Putrid Imp
Storm Combo (TES, ANT)
Go for LED first, then Lotus Petal or Chrome Mox. Shutting down CM off a vial makes me chuckling inside.
Short List:
Lion's Eye Diamond, Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox
MUD
Metalworker, Grim Monolith, Thran Dynamo and Voltaic Key are good to grab to stifle mana production, but beware blowouts from Steel Hellkite. Revoker on Karn Liberated with Ensnaring Bridge in play locks them out of an endgame. Take out Kuldotha Forgemaster or Goblin Welder in combo builds.
Short List:
Metalworker, Grim Monolith, Thran Dynamo, Kuldotha Forgemaster, Karn Liberated, Steel Hellkite, Goblin Welder, Voltaic Key
Zombardment
Goblin Bombardment is bad news, so shut that off first. Next would be either Carrion Feeder or Lilly if they run her.
Short List:
Goblin Bombardment, Carrion Feeder, Liliana of the Veil.
Painter-Stone
Grindstone. Grindstone, Grindstone, Grindstone. Welder and Spellskite are decent targets, but Grindstone is their win con.
Short List:
Grindstone, Welder or Spellskite if necessary.
Deadguy Ale
This will be more about matching his plays than being able to blindly drop a Revoker. Deadguy and D&T are cut from a similar cloth, and have roughly the same development speed. Stoneforge Mystic or Liliana of the Veil are decent blind, but taking out a Sensei's Divining Top, Jitte or Batterskull can be equally useful. This is a matchup where you should have plenty of time to figure out the best way the trip him up.
Short List:
Stoneforge Mystic, Liliana of the Veil, Sensei's Diving Top, Umezawa's Jitte, Sword of Light and Shadow, Batterskull.
12 Post
This is a matchup that depends on one question: will you have Mangara active before they have a monster squashing you? Even though Mangara and Wasteland are the all stars, Revoker still has plenty of targets. Candelabra of Tawnos is enemy number one, but Expedition Map and Sensei's Diving Top are equally good. Beware Oblivion Stone from the board.
Short List:
Candelabra of Tawnos, Sensei's Divining Top, Expedition Map, Oblivion Stone
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1. You can keep a big beastie from killing you with Children of Korlis and any other creature eqiupped with a Sword of Light and Shadow. Burrenton Forge-Tender can also accomplish this (and does not require you to take the damage first), but only against something red like Progenitus.
2. If you are facing an opponent who has a Life from the Loam engine, you can often get rid of it if you set your Vial to 2 and put a Jotun Grunt onto the battlefield at his end of turn step.
3. Phyrexian Revoker can prevent mana production from nonland cards cards such as Mox Opal, Lion's Eye Diamond, Elvish Archdruid, Noble Hierarch, and even Simian Spirit Guide. It is a surprisingly important detail in this deck.
4. Aether Vial and Stoneforge Mystic have abilities that put cards directly onto the battlefield. When you activate them, the ability goes onto the stack, and you ask if it resolves. Only when and if it resolves do you reveal which card to move to the battlefield. You don't have to put anything onto the battlefield or even have an appropriate card for it in hand. In fact, you can activate these things just to pretend like you do. This can be very important if you are "vialing" Phyrexian Revoker. The opponent does not get to see the Revoker beforehand and (unlike when it is cast) can not respond to what gets revoked - if you do it right.
5. What is the best time to play Stoneforge Mystic? It depends. Against many opponents, your path to victory is an equipped flier. If you have the mana available, go for it. In other cases, you don't want to march it into a counterspell, so bait the counters with something else.
6. How do I "unsummon" or "flicker" a creature carrying a Jitte during combat so that the creature does not take damage, and yet the Jitte gets counters?
You can't (except with Thalia, who has first strike).
7. Know how to play Karakas. If the opponent can kill lands, a lost Port is less of a hassle than Karakas. If you have two, try to get him to waste a card on the first one. Play Plains before Karakas unless you have two legendary lands in the opening hand. If you have only Plains out, and the opponent plays Wasteland, you can use your own Wasteland on it, leaving him no target. Or just hit it while it is tapped. I see opponents using Wasteland on my Ports frequently, especially if I landed a turn 1 Vial. This is always good for us.
8. The creatures in D+T are there to provide disruption and also aggression. So you played a couple of opponents where Flickerwisp was nothing special? It happens. Just don't be hasty and start reworking the deck after only a few matches. They are all going to be mediocre from time to time. Adjust them in the main/sideboard to suit.
9. Deathrite Shaman, Birds of Paradise, and Noble Hierarch can hurt you a lot. Hit them with Swords to Plowshares turn one. Same goes for Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond. If you have Oblivion Ring or Flickerwisp, either is a very good target.
10. Unlike most control decks, it is the creatures that do the controlling in D&T. You will need to commit several of them to pin down your opponent in almost all cases, so only hold back against board control decks with sweepers.
11. Don't take chances with losing priority. You pass priority by default once you take an action, so when you tap Mangara, use Karakas or Aether Vial immediately (you can tap Mangara and Karakas simultaneously as a short cut once you explain it to your opponent) or announce that you are retaining priority.
12. What is the best time to play Thalia? On your own turn as soon as you can, even if it is with an Aether Vial.
13. Can I use Aether Vial to "Vial in" Thalia in response to an opponent's spell forcing him to pay more? No.
14. If an opponent has Sensei's Divining Top on the battlefield and you want to tap one of his lands during upkeep with Rishadan Port, pay close attention to his activations. Wait to see if he uses the Top on his upkeep. If he wishes to use the Top during his upkeep, he has to do so and then pass priority. So wait to see if he uses it before tapping a land. If he uses it without consulting you, just tap a land after he has finished. If he asks you if you wish to tap one without using his Top first, you should generally decline because he has then lost his opportunity to use the Top as long as you also pass priority back. You can then tap a land during his draw step, after he draws.
15. When do I leave Aether Vial at two counters, and when do I tick it up to three? This is a tough one. The cards in your hand are certainly a good indicator. The board state also is important. Have you established control yet? And the opponent's deck is significant also. Do you fear counterspells that might otherwise be sitting dormant in the opponent's hand? When unsure, I commonly feel safe going to three if I am holding Flickerwisp with nothing terribly important to flicker on the opponent's side. I just flicker the Vial to reset it.
III. Position in the Field
What it is relatively strong against
1. Miracles
2. RUG/Delver
3. ANT/TES
4. all Stoneblade decks including Deathblade
5. Reanimator
6. Sneaky Show and Tell
What it is about even against
1. Maverick
2. Goblins
3. Lands
4. Merfolk
5. OmniShow
6. High Tide
7. Shardless BUG
What it is relatively weak against
1. Elves
2. 12-Post Eldrazi
3. Belcher
4. Punishing Jund
IV. History
This is neither the first nor the most recent competitive deck of my design in Legacy, but it has always been my favorite. It started from an idea that actually predates Legacy by nearly a decade. It goes that if you can continue to cast cheap creatures that your opponent has to deal with, his deck will eventually fall apart. The idea came from noticing how something like Royal Assassin could simply stop an opponent in his tracks. Later it was Goblin Welder and then Meddling Mage. Unlike today, the game used to have very few of these kinds of creatures. Enchantments could occasionally do the same thing, but you can't attack with them. So they are less attractive in terms of design. While radical for its time, it was also awful in all of its early forms. The power of these cards was just too low to make any kind of tournament deck from them. But then something began to change. Slowly at first, only a nudge at a time, but increasingly as the years have rolled on...creatures (and creature removal) have been growing in power relative to other cards. Right around the birth of Legacy in 2004, I found myself fooling around with this idea yet again.
Windborn Muse
Meddling Mage
Rootwater Thief
True Beliver
Mother of Runes
Glowrider
Preacher
These were amongst the cards in something that sat fallow until in 2006 when Mangara of Corondor got printed. Right about that same time, I set about to prove that Aether Vial was broken. It started with me writing an article on the subject. This one, in fact. Well, I was not quite right about Aether Vial. But I realized that I needed a suitable deck to prove my point. Mangara was the perfect place to start.
Mangara's wording is a throwback to an older style. Nevinyrral's Disk and Carrionette are amongst some older cards that get rid of themselves upon resolution (and not as a payment). It makes for some interesting potential. For example, if the opponent pays the 2 to avoid Carrionette's ability, it stays in the graveyard. Also, you can respond to its activation as many times as you have mana for to exile multiple creatures before it resolves or use Tortured Existence to retrieve it with its ability waiting to resolve. Nevinyrral's Disk does not sacrifice itself, so it can be regenerated or otherwise saved from its own ability. Chaos Orb is also like this as are a few others...like Mangara of Corondor.
As soon as Time Spiral got spoiled I saw the strange wording and knew what had to be done. I tried out a few different directions, but the deck was decidedly aggro at the time. There were still too few little guys with strong disruptive power to go full control. I also want to point out that in December 2006 Legacy was still a very young format with only a handful of full-time players. The existing "white weenie" deck at that time, called Angel Stompy was not very good. This was in part due to the fact that there just were not enough people designing and testing decks and also because the white creatures available were not strong compared to other old cards. I was aware of this and hoped that either white or green/white would work simply because there were other strong decks in the other color combinations to compete with.
Here is a simplified timeline:
2006
Tangle Wire (Tax that wanted to be a creature.)
True Believer (One of few bonafide hate bears of the time)
Samurai of the pale Curtain (partial ant-graveyard card, trades with Nimble Mongoose)
Glowrider (Good against most of the stuff Thalia is good against, sorta.)
Isamaru, hound of Konda (A 2/2 for 1 with a nice "you can't kill me" was a great deal at the time.)
Hokori, Dust Drinker (Made for a 1-sided Winter Orb with Karakas, good against Landstill)
~2007
+Stonecloaker (I was testing it as soon as it was spoiled.)
+Umezawa's Jitte (Included to keep D+T from losing to Umezawa's Jitte. Go figure.)
-Hokori, Dust Drinker (The 4 cmc cost was unwieldy and Landstill died.)
-Glowrider (Turned out to be a disaster in a few matchups. )
+Cataclysm (Nuts against most everything that was not blue, and some that were.)
+Oblivion Ring (More powerful removal than the creatures available. So more removal it is.)
-Tangle Wire (How it lasted this long is a mystery.)
~2008
+Jotun Grunt (Became our personal anti-Tarmogoyf tech with lots of side benefits)
-True Believer (Outclassed)
+Flickerwisp (A random stranger suggested I try it. Really.)
-Samurai of the Pale Curtain (Outclassed)
-Cataclysm (Too many larger creatures entering the format.)
~2009
-Isamaru, Hound of Konda (New simplified damage rules removed damage on the stack tricks.)
-Stonecloaker (New simplified damage rules removed damage on the stack tricks.)
-Oblivion Ring(Too slow for accelerating speed of the format. Remains in some sideboards.)
+Stoneforge Mystic (Equipment package made D+T's creatures customizable. Only deck to use the card at the time.)
+Mother of Runes (Consistently equipped creatures made protecting them more important.)
+Enlightened Tutor (Sideboard improvement for the highly varied metagame that was emerging.)
+Wasteland (Overall reduction in cmc of D+T's spells make this possible.)
~2010
+Phyrexian Revoker (Coinciding with Jace, it keeps the deck moving up in power)
-Goldmeadow Harrier and similar 1 mana filler cards. (These were the last underpowered cards to get removed)
~2011
+Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (Super powerful addition finally brings the storm matchup within reach)
~2012
+Rest in Peace (Such powerful graveyard hate that it can be used even against decks with incidental graveyard use)
~2013
Thomas Enevoldsen and Michael Bonde own GP Strasbourg, drawing lots of attention to what had been a sleeper deck. Opponents are far more likely to understand the deck ever since.
Notably, only Aether Vial, Rishadan Port, and Swords to Plowshares have been in every version of this deck since its inception. Every creature has been temporary in some fashion.
-
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CadaverousBl00m posted a message on The Multiplayer / EDH Cube ThreadAs an added example of Vizkopa Guildmage's game-finishing powers, allow me to share something I managed about a month ago in a 2HG game out of my cube.Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
I drafted the Orzhov lifegain archetype hard, as it was open.
My teammate and I spent the first 6-7 turns getting utterly pounded, until I slowly started to stabilize by dropping Grave Titan followed by Wurmcoil Engine. We were under 20 life with our opponents close to 50. Then... watch me end the game in three turns...
Turn... er... 9, from memory? I dunno. Something like that: Draw SoLaS. Play it and equip to Wurmcoil. I have a Weathered Wayfarer out, and I can use it. It fetches Rogue's Passage, which I then activate on Wurmcoil. It swings through for eight damage, and we gain 11 (thanks to the incidental 3 extra life from SoLaS).
Turn 10: Draw Liliana Vess, play her and -2 her to fetch Vizkopa Guildmage. Once again get Wurmcoil through for the same. We're now at about 40 life with our opponents on 30.
Turn 11: Drop Vizkopa, swing again with Wurmcoil for the same, activate the Guildmage's second ability. We've gained 11 life this turn, so it drains 22 off the opposing team after they took 8 from Wurmcoil. A clean 30 life lost in one turn thanks to Vizkopa. GG. -
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wtwlf123 posted a message on [540][Powered] wtwlf123's CubeMy cube thread has hit 1,000,000+ views!Posted in: Cube Lists
Thanks to all the folks that follow and contribute to my cube thread! Regulars, followers and lurkers alike. I've had a blast discussing cube with everyone here. -
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Alix444 posted a message on Burned on PucatradeI shipped a beta plateau and a vendilion clique to japan without tracking............ and it got there. I'm not the biggest fan of buying tracking. Through trading and my tcg store I have probably shipped 40 things without tracking because I think the chance of it actually being lost is probably less than 1% so if my cards are worth less than 100 I actually save more money by not choosing tracking even when you account for losing cards at that 1% rate. And for dishonesty I don't feel the need to live my life like people with reasonable feedback are going to have a change of heart and suddenly rip me. And if they do, meh I live in a first world country.Posted in: Market Street Café -
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Aether7 posted a message on Should I sell out of playing magic and just collect?To play MTG you have to live near a game store with a thriving scene or you need to be willing to commute.Posted in: Market Street Café
This isn't cross fit. There's not a gym on every corner. Effort is required. -
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xlXSladeXlx posted a message on Casual Hydra DeckPosted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats- 14 Forest
- 4 Overgrown Tomb
- 4 Woodland Cemetery
- 4 Traproot Kami
- 4 Overgrown Battlement
- 4 Primordial Hydra
- 4 Axebane Guardian
- 4 Corpsejack Menace
- 3 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
- 3 Momentous Fall
- 2 Asceticism
- 3 Kalonia Hydra
Thought I'd help you out H20 - 14 Forest
-
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WhiteWisper posted a message on [[Official]] Trade Evaluation -- Pile A versus BPosted in: Market Street CaféQuote from H2O4Sho »Quote from H2O4Sho »What do people think of the following?
Pile A
Eidolon of the Great Revel foil
Voice of resurgence x3
Pile B
Austere Command
Vexing Devil x4
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Oracle of Mul Daya
Debtors' Knell
I would be giving away Pile B
Was hoping to get a reply please.
I'm not going to go crazy researching Tcgplayer and Buylist prices because I think you can do that. Voice of Resurgence is a 2-3 of in Melira Pod and sees play in some GW based hatebear decks and I think he is close to his all time low, give or take 2 to 3 months. Eidolon has continued to see significant play in Modern and Legacy, who love pimping out decks. Add in being a rare in a small opened third set with beautiful art and a pretty border and you are good. Pile B just looks like EDH singles, which, while good are almost exclusively used there alone barring some fringe decks. From my Modern experience I don't typically see Vexing Devil a whole lot so I stand with Pile A. Even if prices favor Pile B I would still prefer Pile A just because it is more liquid. -
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thg posted a message on trading or keeping tournament prizesPosted in: Market Street Café
just like the people who buy scratch tickets with lottery "winnings".Quote from H2O4Sho »I suspect that most people just enjoy the thrill of opening packs and feel like they are free because they are part of their winnings and not part of the entry fee. You can spin this in various directions to justify pretty much any course of action. Those that want store credit are probably being more pragmatic about their winnings. $3 per pack, continuously winning, can buy you an eternal staple quite quickly. Some of it might just come down to personalities? -
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Eryops posted a message on The [Un]Official "Buy or Sell?" Thread!Posted in: Market Street CaféQuote from H2O4Sho »Selling bulk. If you are looking to remove some of the chaff, at what prices would you sell BULK I have no idea, but I have too many cards and could easily trim 10k or so but I am curious to the prices I should ask or expect to receive
A common way to unload commons and uncommons is to fill up a USPS priority box (Costs $12.45 to ship a medium size, and $17.60 to ship a large size) and sell it like that. I've been offering ~$22-25 for medium boxes (about 4000 cards) here on MTGS, and get enough bites. I'm not sure how many cards would fit into a large box, so don't know what would be a good price to ask. You're not making a ton by any means, but it's a great way to get rid of a substantial amount of chaff quickly.Commons
uncommons
Again, going from my experiences, bulk rares here seem to get offers for ~0.12-0.15 a piece.Rares
They seem to get offers of $0,30-0.40 a piece. Don't know if sellers are biting at that price.Mythics
That's the best info I can give you. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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Concise and well put together
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Sometimes all it takes is someone else to explain the interactions of a card to make me realize I misunderstood how the card worked. Your points are very easy to follow.
Looking forward to your next review
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Thanks, I get it now!
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Seems like an easy test at 540 MP - Utter End likely gets cut
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These users don't know me IRL like you do, so you can't expect them NOT to draw their own conclusions (right or wrong). That being said, let's move on. I apologize once again to any and everyone who might have thought my comment was racist, off color, inappropriate or (insert your term here). Intention is irrelevant, the content clearly bothered some of you and that is not what I was trying to portray.
Let's get back to discussing cards as that is what this thread is all about.
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That being said, Plow under comes off as being very linear and narrow, until you realize that the card is all about timing. Then you realize the true power of the card.
I think it's mileage will vary from group to group, despite being a pretty awesome card.
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^
This.
A little disappointed in the rest of you for jumping on the guy so quickly. It appears to be an honest question. Not everyone completely understands how to "optimize" their sale of their collection on eBay or anywhere else for that matter. Let's try to be helpful instead of immediately dumping on someone.
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Testing on Trice is no different then using proxies, but other then people whinging on players leaving after game 1, no one complains about using non sanctioned software.
It's silly to say if you don't own the card, you aren't serious about the game. Considering how many people would probably like to play, but cannot afford 3k for a good deck.
1
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Traproot Kami
4 Overgrown Battlement
4 Primordial Hydra
4 Axebane Guardian
4 Corpsejack Menace
3 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
3 Momentous Fall
2 Asceticism
3 Kalonian Hydra
It's designed to take single opponents out but with the right sack outlet and a huge hydra it will crush the table.