I did present this as a hypothetical--before this thread got hijacked by the "A FEW PEOPLE ON REDDIT DETERMINED OVER SIX WEEKS THAT THIS FORMAT WOULD NEVER WORK BECAUSE IT'S NOT REAL LEGACY AND THEREFORE NOBODY EVER WANTS TO PLAY IT EVER EVER EVER" crowd--and I laid out my reasons why I THINK it WILL happen EVENTUALLY
Man, if you want to play that game, then let's do it.
Yes there's a difference between arguing if a format if going to exist, or if a format is going to be good. I understand that you want to discuss how things will be based on the premise that it will be. Fine.
But then, you basically admit you never tested the format yourself, and I along with others bring you experiments/reports/test results on the work you should have done, rectifying points you're trying to bring our of nowhere when some others tested it and proved your wrong. Then you say you don't want to take their experience and don't care about the people who shared the same ideas as you and actually put them in practice to see where it was leading. So I asked you what you were disagreeing/disliking with in their approach and you can't answer properly without a bunch of non sense. There are reasons why the format you're suggesting isn't ''logistically sustainable''.
You're calling that we're taking your thread and misdirecting it, but you refuse to see any logic and keep saying ''it wouldn't happen like that'' when it did, and moreover you can't even bring a glimpse of experiment or fact to support your ''it wouldn't happen like that'' hypothesis.
Not even counting your last message, you're spreading a bunch of false information around that is easily provable but refuse to see the numbers and facts because you seem blinded by some kind of idea. Legacy is dying, really?
I'll stop there, I would rather not be disrespectful. I'll try to answer your bold question:
''If Wizards was to pull the trigger and establish this format, what is the most logistically feasible way for them to do it?''
The most LOGISTICALLY FEASIBLE WAY? They would need to stop supporting Modern and just replace it with this format, just like they did with Extended.
I'm sure you see the problems it creates: they stop pushing a format they spent years to built, they lose their players' trust, and they create a format that pretty much no one would play in a matter of months. Even this part:
''...and I laid out my reasons why I THINK it WILL happen EVENTUALLY.''
No offense but I will take Wizard's words over yours in this case: they chose Modern and don't want to create the Eternal format. That you refuse to take their word, too, is just... I don't find the words for it. And yes, I'll also take the words of a few guys on reddit who posted their experience, experiments, testings and results over your non-based claim on this forum, especially since you avoid answering any questions and choose to take facts as attacks over what they are: the best base we can argue on.
That being said, I'm done with this. Best of luck in your quest!
I'm just curious... the /r/MTGEternal started with a lot of the same assumptions that you have. They playtested the format. They did the math, they spent the time, they theorized but also went for actual practices and testing. Yet their response was, for the vast majority, a failure.
What have you actually played/tested, and why/what exactly are you disagreeing (on) interpretations/results different from those present on /r/MTGEternal, who I assume at least had the same time investment as you did toward Eternal format?
I suggest you go on reddit, /r/mtgeternal, and read about the format you're proposing.
The subreddit went from birth to death of the format rather quickly. You'll see why ''Eternal'' is not a good plan and how/why the project was a failure and should never live. Go read everything.
I believe it's not that the skill cap is low, what you're denouncing is the ratio between luck and skill in the game. Because the ratio is closer to a middle ground because of the huge amount of luck in Magic doesn't mean the skill cap isn't huge, in fact, probably much higher than the other games you mentioned. Skill just has less impact on the game. Now you can be for or against that, I have no opinion, just trying to clear out the facts.
It's also worth to mention that ELO rating was tried in MTG before the Planeswalker Points, and it stopped being used because it would encourage good ELO players to stay at home and avoid losing their precious points, even with decay, instead of having them come and play (read: buy more packs).
2v2 is somehow real popular where I live, and we mostly play non-2HG, which means you sit in front of your partner and play after your ennemy on the right.
We and a friend are looking for two decks that would work together in that format, I know it's rather vague but at the moment I'm looking for ideas. Things could be that simple like an effect to tap a creature in a deck, and a Royal Assassin in the other, a Memory Laspe in a deck and a Thoughtscour in the other, or a simple Infect creatures + a partner buff deck.
As I said, I'll take any idea and will not have restrictions. However, if it stimulates you, let's say we both like playing control, play within Legacy rules, both like blue, would prefer themed/conceptual deck, and don't really care that much about losing, as long as we can have our combo or synergy work. We'll use the cards that we already have so please avoid staples (yeah, I would guess two Miracles deck could work awesome...) but don't care much about budget either, we might just buy or trade to what we need.
My girlfriend would like to know what deck could be nice for her but she's picky as hell, so here I am seeking help. She tried Burn, Elves!, Pox and Manaless Dredge so far. Manaless was by far her favorite choice, while she hated Elves!.
I asked her to make a list of the things she liked and disliked, so here it is.
What she likes about Manaless Dredge
-No need to ask if you keep or mulligan, you keep all the time. No need for headache, you have no lands, you keep.
-Lot of fun plays, a lot of cards, but always SIMPLE plays to do.
-A bit hard to play, recognition from other players, unlike Belcher.
-A lot of decision to make, but all decisions are simple.
-A lot of way to win.
-You lose or you win, no in between where you don't know. You don't have to work around anything, you don't have to fight that much around Leyline, you don't end with a ''I could have done that, or that better, if I did that...'' you just lose, it's easier to accept it.
-Fast games.
-Surprises people.
-All cards have a role, and it's easy to understand what card does what. It's simple to learn.
What she disliked about Elves!
-While it's nice to be able to answer everything, it's way too complicated to learn, the decisions are way too harsh, and it's just not fun in the end. The complexity for the power is not worth it.
-You can't win if you don't know your own deck but also your opponents, as you need to Cabal Therapy, etc. Cabal Therapies are easier in Dredge since you only target graveyard hate, and only rarely your opponent combo pieces.
-A lot of maths for everything you do: mana, attacks, etc.
-She didn't feel like she was doing something until her combo was starting.
So anything comes out in mind? Could an other deck fullfill what she wants?
Some stories are way worse than mine, but it was funny none the less.
Visiting friends in their city, we go to a Legacy tournament. First time in the shop. Everything is super smooth but that guy whining everywhere about everyone. Fine, I mean, every shop has its dummies. Of course I get this guy round three. And that's when he said it:
''What the **** man, you paid hundreds for your Volcanic Islands, but you chose THIS copy of Brainstorm? What the ****... Not to insult you or anything, but your Brainstorms are ugly as ***** man, ******* christ...''
What choose? A friend of mine wants Pile A, and is trading pile B. I would go with pile A all the way, but my friend need more advices than just mine <_<
A friend of mine just bought a playset of Badlands and one seems a bit off. The space between the image and the edge of the card is longer than usual. I drew a small red arrow to show the difference, but I'm sure you guys can see it without it. The space seems to be recovered at the bottom, where the image is much closer to the edge than it should be.
Does it change anything in the price of the card? Did he pay too much for it, or did he find a gold nugget?
Hey there, I was wondering if you're planning to change the way you get your prices for the cards in a collection for The Vault. The option you provide (the % cut thing) is surely better than nothing, but it does rather a poor job when you want an accurate price for your collection, taking in account all the foils prices that are worth 8x and the few that are barely worth a penny more.
Is it in your plan to get the price check directly from a website, such as what DeckBox can do? So far they're the best I've seen on this matter. But honestly, I would like to use your software more.
It really depends if they're printing all 10 fetches or just the ONS fetches in this set. If it's all 10, yeah, ZEN fetches are going down. If it's only ONS fetches, zen fetches will go through the roof. Scalding Tarn will be the new USea.
I personally think they're going to go ahead and print the enemy fetches too. Why the hell not. I just listed my ZEN fetches on ebay.
It's totally the opposite that will happen. Even if the Zen doesn't get reprinted right now (but they should be, it's a big if), the prices will go down. People are using sub-par fetches for Modern because they have no better options available. Want an Esper deck in Modern? You have no Esper fetches, so you just use what you have on hands. Once one can replace his Scalding Tarn for a Polluted Delta in a UB deck, he will. Scalding Tarn will be less desired.
How interesting is 4x REV Plateau for 1x REV Volcanic Island? All NM.
I have the Plateau but I don't know, it doesn't feel quite right to trade 4 dual lands for a single one, even if blue. I feel like a new deck could emerge and give me more value with the Plateau over time.
But then again, I don't play with the Plateau and don't have the fetch for it, while the Volcanic could be fetched and see plays in some of my decks. What do?
Can't you contest or anything? It seems very suspicious first that you get banned without infraction, yes, but also that you don't seem to be worried or care about it.
I would understand if you told us it was private, but these explanations are just... it seems to be missing something, am I wrong? You really kept multiplayer forums alive and often provided good advices, I'm confused.
Man, if you want to play that game, then let's do it.
Yes there's a difference between arguing if a format if going to exist, or if a format is going to be good. I understand that you want to discuss how things will be based on the premise that it will be. Fine.
But then, you basically admit you never tested the format yourself, and I along with others bring you experiments/reports/test results on the work you should have done, rectifying points you're trying to bring our of nowhere when some others tested it and proved your wrong. Then you say you don't want to take their experience and don't care about the people who shared the same ideas as you and actually put them in practice to see where it was leading. So I asked you what you were disagreeing/disliking with in their approach and you can't answer properly without a bunch of non sense. There are reasons why the format you're suggesting isn't ''logistically sustainable''.
You're calling that we're taking your thread and misdirecting it, but you refuse to see any logic and keep saying ''it wouldn't happen like that'' when it did, and moreover you can't even bring a glimpse of experiment or fact to support your ''it wouldn't happen like that'' hypothesis.
Not even counting your last message, you're spreading a bunch of false information around that is easily provable but refuse to see the numbers and facts because you seem blinded by some kind of idea. Legacy is dying, really?
I'll stop there, I would rather not be disrespectful. I'll try to answer your bold question:
''If Wizards was to pull the trigger and establish this format, what is the most logistically feasible way for them to do it?''
The most LOGISTICALLY FEASIBLE WAY? They would need to stop supporting Modern and just replace it with this format, just like they did with Extended.
I'm sure you see the problems it creates: they stop pushing a format they spent years to built, they lose their players' trust, and they create a format that pretty much no one would play in a matter of months. Even this part:
''...and I laid out my reasons why I THINK it WILL happen EVENTUALLY.''
No offense but I will take Wizard's words over yours in this case: they chose Modern and don't want to create the Eternal format. That you refuse to take their word, too, is just... I don't find the words for it. And yes, I'll also take the words of a few guys on reddit who posted their experience, experiments, testings and results over your non-based claim on this forum, especially since you avoid answering any questions and choose to take facts as attacks over what they are: the best base we can argue on.
That being said, I'm done with this. Best of luck in your quest!
What have you actually played/tested, and why/what exactly are you disagreeing (on) interpretations/results different from those present on /r/MTGEternal, who I assume at least had the same time investment as you did toward Eternal format?
The subreddit went from birth to death of the format rather quickly. You'll see why ''Eternal'' is not a good plan and how/why the project was a failure and should never live. Go read everything.
Some cards can be so easily explained tho...
It's also worth to mention that ELO rating was tried in MTG before the Planeswalker Points, and it stopped being used because it would encourage good ELO players to stay at home and avoid losing their precious points, even with decay, instead of having them come and play (read: buy more packs).
Burn
Elves!
Deadguy Ale (BWg)
The Gate
Pox
Manaless Dredge
Affinity
Death & Taxes
That's it. No blue decks. No Brainstorm. What would be the easiest way to win in such a meta? There's no blue decks, but the hatebears are real.
2v2 is somehow real popular where I live, and we mostly play non-2HG, which means you sit in front of your partner and play after your ennemy on the right.
We and a friend are looking for two decks that would work together in that format, I know it's rather vague but at the moment I'm looking for ideas. Things could be that simple like an effect to tap a creature in a deck, and a Royal Assassin in the other, a Memory Laspe in a deck and a Thoughtscour in the other, or a simple Infect creatures + a partner buff deck.
As I said, I'll take any idea and will not have restrictions. However, if it stimulates you, let's say we both like playing control, play within Legacy rules, both like blue, would prefer themed/conceptual deck, and don't really care that much about losing, as long as we can have our combo or synergy work. We'll use the cards that we already have so please avoid staples (yeah, I would guess two Miracles deck could work awesome...) but don't care much about budget either, we might just buy or trade to what we need.
Thank you!
My girlfriend would like to know what deck could be nice for her but she's picky as hell, so here I am seeking help. She tried Burn, Elves!, Pox and Manaless Dredge so far. Manaless was by far her favorite choice, while she hated Elves!.
I asked her to make a list of the things she liked and disliked, so here it is.
What she likes about Manaless Dredge
-No need to ask if you keep or mulligan, you keep all the time. No need for headache, you have no lands, you keep.
-Lot of fun plays, a lot of cards, but always SIMPLE plays to do.
-A bit hard to play, recognition from other players, unlike Belcher.
-A lot of decision to make, but all decisions are simple.
-A lot of way to win.
-You lose or you win, no in between where you don't know. You don't have to work around anything, you don't have to fight that much around Leyline, you don't end with a ''I could have done that, or that better, if I did that...'' you just lose, it's easier to accept it.
-Fast games.
-Surprises people.
-All cards have a role, and it's easy to understand what card does what. It's simple to learn.
What she disliked about Elves!
-While it's nice to be able to answer everything, it's way too complicated to learn, the decisions are way too harsh, and it's just not fun in the end. The complexity for the power is not worth it.
-You can't win if you don't know your own deck but also your opponents, as you need to Cabal Therapy, etc. Cabal Therapies are easier in Dredge since you only target graveyard hate, and only rarely your opponent combo pieces.
-A lot of maths for everything you do: mana, attacks, etc.
-She didn't feel like she was doing something until her combo was starting.
So anything comes out in mind? Could an other deck fullfill what she wants?
Thank you!
Visiting friends in their city, we go to a Legacy tournament. First time in the shop. Everything is super smooth but that guy whining everywhere about everyone. Fine, I mean, every shop has its dummies. Of course I get this guy round three. And that's when he said it:
''What the **** man, you paid hundreds for your Volcanic Islands, but you chose THIS copy of Brainstorm? What the ****... Not to insult you or anything, but your Brainstorms are ugly as ***** man, ******* christ...''
....yeah.
1x Gaea's Cradle
Pile B
1x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre FOIL (from a booster)
What choose? A friend of mine wants Pile A, and is trading pile B. I would go with pile A all the way, but my friend need more advices than just mine <_<
A friend of mine just bought a playset of Badlands and one seems a bit off. The space between the image and the edge of the card is longer than usual. I drew a small red arrow to show the difference, but I'm sure you guys can see it without it. The space seems to be recovered at the bottom, where the image is much closer to the edge than it should be.
Does it change anything in the price of the card? Did he pay too much for it, or did he find a gold nugget?
Thank you!
Is it in your plan to get the price check directly from a website, such as what DeckBox can do? So far they're the best I've seen on this matter. But honestly, I would like to use your software more.
It's totally the opposite that will happen. Even if the Zen doesn't get reprinted right now (but they should be, it's a big if), the prices will go down. People are using sub-par fetches for Modern because they have no better options available. Want an Esper deck in Modern? You have no Esper fetches, so you just use what you have on hands. Once one can replace his Scalding Tarn for a Polluted Delta in a UB deck, he will. Scalding Tarn will be less desired.
I have the Plateau but I don't know, it doesn't feel quite right to trade 4 dual lands for a single one, even if blue. I feel like a new deck could emerge and give me more value with the Plateau over time.
But then again, I don't play with the Plateau and don't have the fetch for it, while the Volcanic could be fetched and see plays in some of my decks. What do?