Yeah, two things that annoy me:
1). Later levels you may be a higher level than the opponent, but they might start with like 25 more life than you. Difficulty isn't based on better AI, it's just having a higher starting difference in life totals.
2). No hard removal, just conditional stuff like "power 3 or less" or "-3/-2" stuff.
So now we're defending the concept prosecuting people out of speculation that they might have been thinking about doing something "bad"?
by giving an example why a card leak is not the same like a movie spoiler i am suddenly defending something?
Maybe you are just looking for strawmen in lack of good arguments?
I didn´t even say wizards is right in that matter, i only say some of the arguments saying they are wrong are not real arguments. Basicly, because i lack important informations, that a lot of other people here seem to have (or that they are just making up)
Strawmen? Nope. You gave your reasoning as "who tells us that some of them weren´t waiting for such an opportunity?". We don't know, and you can't prosecute people for something they "potentially might do", with 0 proof of said intent. Ever seen the movie Minority Report (or read the book?)? Once you start prosecuting people for things they "might" do, then you've started down a very terrible path.
Well, that is something diffrent. If you learn something about a movie, you can´t just buy up all comics of one type because you know someone will want to read them after the movie.
But if you get your hand on leaked cards way ahead of the majority of players, you can actually make money with that knowledge. Imagine "shield of the very meek" were spoiled, with the same mechanic as sword of the meek, the only difference being it just gives +0/+1 instead of +1/+2? By buying up Thopter foundry and Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas you could get well ahead of the market.
If leaks got through that group time and again, who tells us that some of them weren´t waiting for such an opportunity?
So now we're defending the concept prosecuting people out of speculation that they might have been thinking about doing something "bad"?
It's a tie between "the investor" mindset and the "rules lawyer" during casual games.
The investor is constantly stalking around the tables, looking for "high value" investment cards and constantly trying to strike deals. He loves to corner new players and talk them into bad deals for their "good" cards.
The rules lawyer, these have their places (to a point) in the tournament, but when you're sitting down for a casual beer and pretzels EDH game, it's time to turn off the part of your brain that makes you an insufferable ******** that can't shut up constantly reminding everyone about how "knowledgeable" about the game you are and how you "could be a judge if I wanted to".
EDIT:
For everyone saying hygiene, I think at this point by default everyone hates that "smelly slob" dude, the better question is, how to get the "smelly slob" to rectify the situation? I know some game stores have enacted a policy of "If your odor is offensive to the other players/staff, you will be asked to leave".
Guy got lifetime banned for the sole reason of being a convicted rapist some months back and people were/are pissed about that too and because he was doing well on the pro tour.
It wasn't so much "because sexual assault conviction" so much as "this person might be bad PR for us so let's get him out of the way before that can happen." It's why Wizards never really took a strong stance before or since regarding any kind of policy, because there isn't really any policy per se. It's just whatever they feel will help their brand. They didn't have to stick their necks out because the community would do it for them (the knee-jerk stigma about defending a man convicted of sexual assault would do that for them).
It's the same thing with these bans. They feel their brand has been damaged by these leaks, since their actions indicate they view the player base more as a resource or an investment than as a community (for those who've played tabletop RPGs, Wizards is basically a heavily railroading "That DM" who gets huffy whenever players attempt to jump the rails because they think the players are there for their benefit rather than for a group effort). Their request that players serve as a kind of intellectual property police falls in line with that way of thinking, too. Whether or not there are concerns about the game's sustainability as mentioned recently in this thread, it's clear that management lately has shifted more towards a marketing/advertising focus rather than a research/development one. So it's no surprise that they're now taking such a strong stance on this issue, where there's a socially acceptable defense for the banned side, because if done right, they can come out on top with the moral high ground and an increasingly supportive player base.
Only problem is they missed the mark on this and fractured the enfranchised part of the community.
See, that's total BS on WoTC's part, the guy's conviction was from over a decade earlier. He'd served his time, completed his parole, had a clean record since. It was deplorable of WoTC to do that to him. Plus if you read the case regarding the incident, it was clearly a situation where two young people got extremely drunk and had an impromptu sexual encounter, instead of just chalking it up to being a mistake the next morning, she decided to ruin his life. (saw it happen in college to multiple guys, they'd go to a party, get drunk, go home with a girl, she regretted it, then a few weeks later she'd change the story from "dumb drunken encounter" to "he forced me" just to save face/reputation).
It just really infuriates me that WOTC felt it was their duty to dredge up something from a decade ago, that he'd already been punished for and proved it was a one-time off incident that was heavily influenced by alcohol, as an excuse to ban this guy (who had done nothing wrong since, nor broken any rule/tournament policy) from what was probably his only escape from a lifetime of regret and shame.
@HunterEste: BFZ didn't have any leaks of relevance. My point is that if BFZ did comparably poor for a fall set (which would be well-deserved, given how bad it is), they can't afford OGW to be a failure as well, hence overblown reactions because they're in PANIC mode.
Meh, they'll bounce back if they do a good job on Innistrad.
People read the mothership now don't they and WotC has released 2 statements there concerning this very subject so I'm inclined to say your argument is just pulling a random number out of your *** to attempt to prove your point. Let's say it's a 10% drop in sales as a result of this judge issue. That's millions of dollars lost/let's see how happy you are if you lost millions just because of a stupid decision as this judge issue is fracturing the community. Without a community/consumers WotC is in the *****ter real quick if people decide the game isn't worth their money anymore.
As for WotC looking like the bad guy or doing what they had to do/ban people, I disagree with that sentiment 100%. They simply do NOTHING and that makes them look different than the bad guy and the do what needed to be done guy they are simply the same as they were a month ago. All WotC looks like now is a ******* ass hole who goes on power trips because they can.
I think if there is a dip in sales, they're going to blame spoilers again and say they've solved the problem with their community policing. When the next set doesn't do as well as they thought, they'll blame the spoilers from OGW for damaging their marketing permanently or some bull***** like that.
If numbers go up, they'll credit their heavy handed response and Trick's amazing article convincing us all that they wer 100% right. When in reality, it's probably because the playerbase is growing. Still.
If this trend continues, I could see them getting serious trouble with Hasbro and its shareholders.
Maybe another reason why their response was so overblown. BFZ probably didn't do that well compared to the latest fall sets, either, after the initial hype died down. They simply can't afford that many blunders in a row.
I HIGHLY doubt BFZ's poor sales were due to leaks, that set was really pretty terrible both power wise and value wise. Other than the expedition lands, there wasn't much in BFZ. Only Gideon is the only non expedition land card that had any power or value behind it.
People read the mothership now don't they and WotC has released 2 statements there concerning this very subject so I'm inclined to say your argument is just pulling a random number out of your *** to attempt to prove your point. Let's say it's a 10% drop in sales as a result of this judge issue. That's millions of dollars lost/let's see how happy you are if you lost millions just because of a stupid decision as this judge issue is fracturing the community. Without a community/consumers WotC is in the *****ter real quick if people decide the game isn't worth their money anymore.
As for WotC looking like the bad guy or doing what they had to do/ban people, I disagree with that sentiment 100%. They simply do NOTHING and that makes them look different than the bad guy and the do what needed to be done guy they are simply the same as they were a month ago. All WotC looks like now is a ******* ass hole who goes on power trips because they can.
Lol, there is NOT gonna be a 10% dip in sales from the banning a few judges most people have never heard of. It's just not gonna happen. Most people don't read the mothership either, and even if you did, you would only see wizards view of it and think that they had banned a long-running spoiler ring, which seems perfectly reasonable.
So what that would suggest is an education campaign is in order
I know some of you think this is a huge deal, but as someone rightly pointed out on the last page, it's likely that only a very small percentage of Magic's player base is even aware of this.
That doesn't make it any more, or any less right (depending on your point of view). Just because we're assuming that many players are ignorant of the situation, doesn't mean it's not a situation worth discussion and attention.
The only thing this has done was discourage me from ever becoming a judge. Thanks Wotc, you have now taken all the fun out of spoiler season because everyone will be afraid of the banhammer when the next round of leaks/spoilers come around to discuss them.
Why didn't every single member of this forum get the same ban as the facebook group? We all saw, shared and discussed the same material and the mods even left it open so we could do so. Why don't we all have bans too?
once its here, its publicly available.
we dont know all the details, but im pretty certain no one has to worry about reading anything on mtgs.
Why not though? Someone stole their IP and illegally shared it on MTGS. Why is this acceptable when sharing it on facebook isn't?
Because on MTG Salvation we don't use our real names and they can't figure out our DCI numbers
1). Later levels you may be a higher level than the opponent, but they might start with like 25 more life than you. Difficulty isn't based on better AI, it's just having a higher starting difference in life totals.
2). No hard removal, just conditional stuff like "power 3 or less" or "-3/-2" stuff.
Strawmen? Nope. You gave your reasoning as "who tells us that some of them weren´t waiting for such an opportunity?". We don't know, and you can't prosecute people for something they "potentially might do", with 0 proof of said intent. Ever seen the movie Minority Report (or read the book?)? Once you start prosecuting people for things they "might" do, then you've started down a very terrible path.
So now we're defending the concept prosecuting people out of speculation that they might have been thinking about doing something "bad"?
The investor is constantly stalking around the tables, looking for "high value" investment cards and constantly trying to strike deals. He loves to corner new players and talk them into bad deals for their "good" cards.
The rules lawyer, these have their places (to a point) in the tournament, but when you're sitting down for a casual beer and pretzels EDH game, it's time to turn off the part of your brain that makes you an insufferable ******** that can't shut up constantly reminding everyone about how "knowledgeable" about the game you are and how you "could be a judge if I wanted to".
EDIT:
For everyone saying hygiene, I think at this point by default everyone hates that "smelly slob" dude, the better question is, how to get the "smelly slob" to rectify the situation? I know some game stores have enacted a policy of "If your odor is offensive to the other players/staff, you will be asked to leave".
See, that's total BS on WoTC's part, the guy's conviction was from over a decade earlier. He'd served his time, completed his parole, had a clean record since. It was deplorable of WoTC to do that to him. Plus if you read the case regarding the incident, it was clearly a situation where two young people got extremely drunk and had an impromptu sexual encounter, instead of just chalking it up to being a mistake the next morning, she decided to ruin his life. (saw it happen in college to multiple guys, they'd go to a party, get drunk, go home with a girl, she regretted it, then a few weeks later she'd change the story from "dumb drunken encounter" to "he forced me" just to save face/reputation).
It just really infuriates me that WOTC felt it was their duty to dredge up something from a decade ago, that he'd already been punished for and proved it was a one-time off incident that was heavily influenced by alcohol, as an excuse to ban this guy (who had done nothing wrong since, nor broken any rule/tournament policy) from what was probably his only escape from a lifetime of regret and shame.
Meh, they'll bounce back if they do a good job on Innistrad.
I HIGHLY doubt BFZ's poor sales were due to leaks, that set was really pretty terrible both power wise and value wise. Other than the expedition lands, there wasn't much in BFZ. Only Gideon is the only non expedition land card that had any power or value behind it.
So what that would suggest is an education campaign is in order
That doesn't make it any more, or any less right (depending on your point of view). Just because we're assuming that many players are ignorant of the situation, doesn't mean it's not a situation worth discussion and attention.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-UWkFg72L8
It's worth a watch.
Because on MTG Salvation we don't use our real names and they can't figure out our DCI numbers
That wasn't what that poster was saying at all....he was giving reasons he doesn't respect what Mark Rosewater has to say.