After a whole week of aggro, I am thinking people will stray away and play mid-range builds with 20-30% still playing R/W vehicles.
Playing 0 removal in a sorcery speed style deck also feels wrong as copter will just fly over out dudes. MBing some copies of impeccable timing solves this problem and 1-2 copies of blessed alliance helps with life and dudes as well. Blessed alliance can also help out protect your dudes with its' 3rd option.
I cut out eldritch evolution due to the loss of tempo and that is pretty much game over vs. aggro decks. I hence, switch to a heavier mid-range style deck and more removal.
I like Ali's path towards the future of bant midrange,and the inclusion of a single emrakul is awesome. But i hate how he did not have any copies of cataclysm, which is very good mainboard imo. Then you can side them out for fumigates or just have both for large t5 board wipes. MB filigree helps with life total and count towards the card type. Playing two copies of nissa is very powerful in out valuing the G/B delerium decks as well as the control decks. Cataclysm MB helps out vs. the aggro match ups along with linvala and grafwidow.
I play servant of the conduit and aetherhub as reliable energy producers. Both gives me the color i want for that moment and aetherhub helps pay for eldrazi displacer. Ill prob side avacyn and the rest, i don't think avacyn is good atm with stasis snare rolling around MB, so ill SB her in with natural state or appetite for the unnatural.
Why are you running Impeccable Timing over Stasis Snare? With the lack of enchantment hate, Stasis Snare is some of the best removal in the game. Its at instant speed and doesn't rely on power/toughness or mana cost. It snares pretty much everything except Brisela (this includes Emrakul when it comes down). Timing also isn't a guarantee for removal, instead just does damage. Seems too conditional.
The only reason I can see not running Stasis Snare is because of the 1WW cost, but it shouldn't be that hard to get 2 white sources and you don't necessarily need to have it by T3.
Cultivator's caravan? Seems a tad bit slow to me, especially given the low amount of creatures that can easily crew it at t5 (7). Without any removal it needs to win before the lategame creatures arrive. Above deck seems just so weak vs something like planeswalker control (liliana wrecks, as she kills anything till 1 of the three depala's, or one of the two start your engines arrive).
Actually, working around liliana's +1 seems to be something this deck archetype needs to do with a sideboard. I see liliana in many, many decks previously and I still expect her to see a lot of play: so what would we sideboard against a bw control deck using liliana/ob nixilis and the like?
Cultivators caravan is at the very least a 5/5 for 3 that is aslo a mana rock and it can be crewed by 11 of my 15 creatures it's worht it a 5/5 is powerful in standard a turn 3 5/5 is just good and it can let you drop skysoverign turn 4
I am only seeing 7 creatures with base power 3+ the Veteran Motorists and Depala. Exemplar doesn't get to 3 power until the combat phase and only of your turn. So I wouldn't necessarily count it as a true pilot for caravan. I also think caravan is too slow for an aggro deck, mainly because of the power requirements and lack of ETB effect. But if it works for you, that's great. I just feel lIke it will constantly be an underwhelming card.
You have a lot of options within Bant colors to not let aggro do what they want. Same with control.
Christmas Land hands are going to occur, it just happens.
Authority of the Consuls is good SB material against aggro. Helps slow them down.
Selfless Spirit is excellent against board wipes. Should at least be SB, if not MB depending on meta. Same with Avacyn.
Fairgrounds Warden, Reflector Mage and Spell Queller. All 3 drops that take out something on your opponent's side when they are cast.
I personally like Rashmi, Eternites Crafter as a solid 4 drop in Bant colors.
Strongest 5 drops would be Avacyn and Verdurous Gearhulk probably.
Sylvan Advocate synergizes well with Nissa, Vital Force.
Tamiya, Gideon, and Nissa are all good PWers in this deck.
Stasis Snare and Declaration in Stone are excellent for removal.
I personally don't run Aether Hub because I don't run additional energy generators. After its energy is expended, it just becomes a colorless mana. I feel Evolving Winds is more reliable.
I really like it, but I think I would run Blossoming Defense instead of Filigree Familiar in the sideboard.
The reason I run Filigree Familiar is to side in against aggro matches. The life gain + chump blocker + card advantage is good value against a race. It'll probably net you 5ish life (between life gain and blocking) and an additional card.
Of course my Sideboard will evolve depending on the meta, but I imagine we will see more aggro decks at first. I might make room for Blossoming Defense as an anti-removal card, but I doubt I'd take the Familiar out for it. If anything, it might be Gideon who doesn't make the cut SB, since even though he's a good all-around card, he doesn't necessarily give me a noticable advantage against a certain match up, at least not yet.
The deck is basically a creature heavy mid-range good stuff deck. Nissa and Slyvan Advocate have good synergy. Tamiyo is always good value. All the 3-drops have the ability to "remove" stuff from the battlefield. Verdurous Gearhulk in a win-con itself, or it can give counters to something else. Avacyn can be a game changer. Rashmi also gives card advantage, especially when playing bigger spells like Nissa and the Gearhulk. Sideboard is in flux, but I might end up with Selfless Spirits mainboard.
one word: BUDGET
that is why you would pick freigther over cruiser
Except the Cruiser isn't really expensive. Averaging around $2.25 a card. I mean if you have really tight budget constraints or are looking at pauper, then yeah, I get it.
I like the idea of all the vehicles and the start your engines but those are dead turns.
Turn 1 nothing
Turn 2 vehicle
Turn 3 creature, crew vehicle. Maybe get in for 3.
Sciencemike's is better because he curves but still, Speedway Fanatic is the best pilot and curving into t3 Renegade Freighter, atk for 5 trample is legit.
I think I'm sticking to rw humans
Question: Why would you pick Renegade Freighter over Fleetwheel Cruiser? Fleetwheel is obviously the more aggro card, being as it doesn't need to be piloted its first time. Still runs across 5 damage every time too. Also, can block with 5 Power, unlike Freighter should the situation call for it. And the difference between 3 and 4 toughness only while attacking in negligible. The only thing going for it is that its a 3-drop.
Also not sure what you are talking about with a Turn 1: Nothing and not playing on the curve.
The deck has 10 1-drops, including 2 with Haste. Turn 2 with a Toolcraft Exemplar can also be swinging for 3. Turn 3 you are using a 3 drop to pilot a vehicle, and still able to swing with your 1-drop.
I don't know how these decks will match up against Control, but what you said makes no sense.
I would look at Fleetwheel Cruiser over Renegade Freighter. It's a 4 drop but its a 5/3 trample with haste that doesn't need a crew when it comes into the battlefield. Add to it Depala or Chief of the Foundry and it's a 6/4. Very solid vehicle.
I disagree Colt47. I think you can run it as a 1 off in an aggro shell.
I'll give it a try. In the right build Skysovereign, Consul Flagship is more reliable and dwarf tribal with vehicles seems like a good fit. Has anyone thought about using Gideon, Ally of Zendikar in the deck? He can pop a guy out to crew a vehicle and can defend himself even though he isn't a dwarf. I think the peg fits better as well in this deck than Chandra, now that I look at it, though it isn't a dwarf or vehicle.
I run 2 of Gideon, 2 of Chandra, with 2 of Nahiri in the sideboard. Gideon is just good value in this deck.
There's already 5 amazing cards that play just right in the Human Army concept : Lieutenant, Captain, Tracker, Garrison and Champion. Four of each is 20 already! I'm not convinced it is wise to skip turn 1, 100% of the time, so some Inspectors had to make the cut. I reduced to 3 the number of Champions, to make room for other 4cmc spells (Arlinn) and avoid drawing too many of them (to ensure a fast deck).
I feel Arlinn Kord really deserves a spot in this deck. Planeswalkers are great cards against Control, but she's more than that in this deck.
Against Control/Midrange : Her dayside +1 ability is key here, as it defends her the turn she's played (and +2/+2 is probably enough to make any of our Humans big enough versus anything opponent would have played T1-T3). Following turns, granting Haste to our Humans (looking at you, Hanweir Garrison and Heron's Grace Champion), is probably enough to seal the deal against Midrange and Control.
Against Aggro : Create a 2/2 Wolf token to get wider than opponent, then her nightside +1 ability will help us get bigger than opposition (plus evasion). If anything, just burn a creature, rinse and repeat until the numbers are in our favor again.
About Repel the Abominable and Blossoming Defense : See above post. They are great against all archetypes (Aggro, Control, Midrange). We just have to learn how to play them against the different type of opposition we will meet. Since they're both instant speed, they are far more versatile than one would think (except Repel against other Humans). They are very cheap too. At 1W or G, both can be played on top of another spell each turn past T4-T5 (one of the reason there's 25 lands). This ensures a certain tempo that should prove to be lethal.
As for Nature's Way : In addition to my yesterday's comments, I would say this... Dromoka's Command was mainly used to get a counter and fight. Fighting without the counter, but being immuned to target creature's power, is amazing. This completely avoids Lifelink, Deathtouch, and saves us from damage that would otherwise be lethal for our targeted Human later in that turn. Vigilance and Trample are amazing bonuses to get against Aggro, and let's face it : we play removal in the main for them anyway. Maybe playtesting will prove this card to be awkward, but I'm ready to test it.
Simple solution, Hamlet Captain just isn't that good. Sub in Voltaic Brawler there instead. It is a much better card.
Captain is too conditional in my opinion to be relevant. Its a bad pseudo-lord that doesn't even buff itself and only buffs when it attacks or blocks. Add to that that it's only a 2/2 and it becomes an irrelevant body rather quickly.
Here is my latest iteration, it'll be what I start testing with.
The Sideboard:
The Overrun Package- used versus control decks, especially ones that keep removing pilots. Add in more vehicles (Ovalchase Dragster) and an Overrun effect in Start Your Engines in order to ignore the pilot rule and go in for a single lethal strike.
The problem I see here is that you're relying heavily on one 4x card (Start Your Engines). You only have about a 55% chance of drawing it by turn 4. If you don't draw it and your pilots are all dead, you're in trouble. Maybe it would be better to sideboard in another pilot? Maybe Speedway Fanatic? I dunno, I'm still trying to work this out too.
In a control match up, this deck is going to be weak against spot removal, the Start Your Engines is just another answer to allow us to get damage across, hopefully whatever we need for lethal. I still think we'll be able to get a decent amount of damage across without it (Fleetwheel Cruiser helps with that) I'd keep the burn package in against control and try to whittle down their life total as much as possible with that as well.
But yeah, it is something to be considered because its not an end all answer for us.
Angel of invention seems like a card deck could want keeps ur guys relevant in the Midgame creates 3 pilots as well and helps u get metalcraft for toolcraft
I like this. One thing I feel my list is missing is one big creature for late game. I toyed with the white/red gearhulks, but Angel might be the ticket.
Is this something you are looking for maindeck? What would your build be looking like. I wouldn't mind a 2-of finisher, but I'd be worried about the mana base (22 lands doesn't lend itself to consistent 5 land games) That's why I decided on Metalwork Colossus side-board and doing some testing. It might end up as my finisher, since I could potentially cast it for as cheap as 2 on Turn 5 (with Smuggler's Copter, Chief of the Foundry, and Fleetwheel Cruiser on board.)
I'm kind of wondering if we are jumping through too many hoops to just get the job done with dealing damage to the opponent. Smugglers Copter is just outright good and the same can be said of Toolcraft Exemplar and Inventors Apprentice since they will hypothetically have their bonuses up when we need to attack turn 2. Some other choices we may want to look into the history books of current standard and see what fairs better.
This is why I like keeping the good burn package of Incendiary Flow and Collective Defiance. Declaration in Stone might end up being SB if I can determine another good burn spell that would fit with this deck.
This deck runs 18 true creatures as pilot targets for Vehicles, not including Gideon's 0 and +1 abilities. It also has 12 artifacts to help smooth out the variation of Toolcraft Exemplar and Chief of the Foundry serves as another lord in this deck. I like the burn package in this deck because it can be used to finish off a player when needed, too.
The Sideboard:
The Overrun Package- used versus control decks, especially ones that keep removing pilots. Add in more vehicles (Ovalchase Dragster) and an Overrun effect in Start Your Engines in order to ignore the pilot rule and go in for a single lethal strike.
The "Walking Tall" Package- used against decks that can chump block for days, even enough to keep us from finishing with Fleetwheel Cruiser. Bring in Nahiri, the Harbinger, Metalwork Colossus, and Built to Smash. Nahiri can find Colossus, and with 12 artifact creatures it is reasonable to hard cast it as well. Built to Smash gives the big body of the Colossus evasion, along with potentially helping other vehicles can more damage over.
Again, all of this is just my first built to test. Changes could very well be made.
I don't like the Toolcraft Exemplar in this deck. Only 8 artifacts and 4 of them are 4 cost. I would probably go with Fairgrounds Warden instead. He can pilot the Smuggler's Copter when he hits the board and you can't attack with the Copter until turn 3 anyway. It would be much better bringing him in, exiling something than can block fliers, and then swinging. The Exemplar will be a 1 toughness except in combat so much easier to remove.
Fairgrounds Warden is a good card, but it'll eat just as much removal as Toolcraft Exemplar, probably more since it's going to interact with the opponent's board more.
Also, I think I'm going to replace Aerial Responder with Chief of the Foundry to start off with. This brings the Artifact number up to 12, all along the 2 to 3 to 4 mana curve. It also doesn't affect the creature count for piloting the vehicles.
I'd like to see Fairgrounds Warden in this deck too. So I might be adjusting some creature counts to get it in there, but I like the 18 creatures and 12 artifact count. Besides Toolcraft is currently our only 1 drop and this is very much an aggro deck. Any suggestions for other 1 drops? I have Inventor's Apprentice and Bomar Courier as other possibles.
I'll get on sometime later and post a full deck build with sideboard that I will initially start testing with.
Why are you running Impeccable Timing over Stasis Snare? With the lack of enchantment hate, Stasis Snare is some of the best removal in the game. Its at instant speed and doesn't rely on power/toughness or mana cost. It snares pretty much everything except Brisela (this includes Emrakul when it comes down). Timing also isn't a guarantee for removal, instead just does damage. Seems too conditional.
The only reason I can see not running Stasis Snare is because of the 1WW cost, but it shouldn't be that hard to get 2 white sources and you don't necessarily need to have it by T3.
I am only seeing 7 creatures with base power 3+ the Veteran Motorists and Depala. Exemplar doesn't get to 3 power until the combat phase and only of your turn. So I wouldn't necessarily count it as a true pilot for caravan. I also think caravan is too slow for an aggro deck, mainly because of the power requirements and lack of ETB effect. But if it works for you, that's great. I just feel lIke it will constantly be an underwhelming card.
Christmas Land hands are going to occur, it just happens.
Authority of the Consuls is good SB material against aggro. Helps slow them down.
Selfless Spirit is excellent against board wipes. Should at least be SB, if not MB depending on meta. Same with Avacyn.
Fairgrounds Warden, Reflector Mage and Spell Queller. All 3 drops that take out something on your opponent's side when they are cast.
I personally like Rashmi, Eternites Crafter as a solid 4 drop in Bant colors.
Strongest 5 drops would be Avacyn and Verdurous Gearhulk probably.
Sylvan Advocate synergizes well with Nissa, Vital Force.
Tamiya, Gideon, and Nissa are all good PWers in this deck.
Stasis Snare and Declaration in Stone are excellent for removal.
I personally don't run Aether Hub because I don't run additional energy generators. After its energy is expended, it just becomes a colorless mana. I feel Evolving Winds is more reliable.
The reason I run Filigree Familiar is to side in against aggro matches. The life gain + chump blocker + card advantage is good value against a race. It'll probably net you 5ish life (between life gain and blocking) and an additional card.
Of course my Sideboard will evolve depending on the meta, but I imagine we will see more aggro decks at first. I might make room for Blossoming Defense as an anti-removal card, but I doubt I'd take the Familiar out for it. If anything, it might be Gideon who doesn't make the cut SB, since even though he's a good all-around card, he doesn't necessarily give me a noticable advantage against a certain match up, at least not yet.
4 Sylvan Advocate
3 Fairgrounds Warden
4 Reflector Mage
4 Spell Queller
3 Rashmi, Eternities Crafter
2 Archangel Avacyn
4 Verdurous Gearhulk
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
2 Nissa, Vital Force
Spells (6)
4 Stasis Snare
2 Declaration in Stone
3 Botanical Sanctum
3 Canopy Vista
4 Evolving Wilds
3 Forest
3 Fortified Village
2 Island
3 Plains
2 Port Town
3 Prairie Stream
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Filigree Familiar
3 Negate
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Summary Dismissal
2 Fumigate
The deck is basically a creature heavy mid-range good stuff deck. Nissa and Slyvan Advocate have good synergy. Tamiyo is always good value. All the 3-drops have the ability to "remove" stuff from the battlefield. Verdurous Gearhulk in a win-con itself, or it can give counters to something else. Avacyn can be a game changer. Rashmi also gives card advantage, especially when playing bigger spells like Nissa and the Gearhulk. Sideboard is in flux, but I might end up with Selfless Spirits mainboard.
Except the Cruiser isn't really expensive. Averaging around $2.25 a card. I mean if you have really tight budget constraints or are looking at pauper, then yeah, I get it.
Question: Why would you pick Renegade Freighter over Fleetwheel Cruiser? Fleetwheel is obviously the more aggro card, being as it doesn't need to be piloted its first time. Still runs across 5 damage every time too. Also, can block with 5 Power, unlike Freighter should the situation call for it. And the difference between 3 and 4 toughness only while attacking in negligible. The only thing going for it is that its a 3-drop.
Also not sure what you are talking about with a Turn 1: Nothing and not playing on the curve.
The deck has 10 1-drops, including 2 with Haste. Turn 2 with a Toolcraft Exemplar can also be swinging for 3. Turn 3 you are using a 3 drop to pilot a vehicle, and still able to swing with your 1-drop.
I don't know how these decks will match up against Control, but what you said makes no sense.
I will probably end up writing a primer for the deck on Friday or something.
Declaration in Stone is solid removal.
Fairgrounds Warden would probably be pretty good in this deck too.
Also Gryff's Boon for evasion.
I run 2 of Gideon, 2 of Chandra, with 2 of Nahiri in the sideboard. Gideon is just good value in this deck.
Simple solution, Hamlet Captain just isn't that good. Sub in Voltaic Brawler there instead. It is a much better card.
Captain is too conditional in my opinion to be relevant. Its a bad pseudo-lord that doesn't even buff itself and only buffs when it attacks or blocks. Add to that that it's only a 2/2 and it becomes an irrelevant body rather quickly.
In a control match up, this deck is going to be weak against spot removal, the Start Your Engines is just another answer to allow us to get damage across, hopefully whatever we need for lethal. I still think we'll be able to get a decent amount of damage across without it (Fleetwheel Cruiser helps with that) I'd keep the burn package in against control and try to whittle down their life total as much as possible with that as well.
But yeah, it is something to be considered because its not an end all answer for us.
Is this something you are looking for maindeck? What would your build be looking like. I wouldn't mind a 2-of finisher, but I'd be worried about the mana base (22 lands doesn't lend itself to consistent 5 land games) That's why I decided on Metalwork Colossus side-board and doing some testing. It might end up as my finisher, since I could potentially cast it for as cheap as 2 on Turn 5 (with Smuggler's Copter, Chief of the Foundry, and Fleetwheel Cruiser on board.)
This is why I like keeping the good burn package of Incendiary Flow and Collective Defiance. Declaration in Stone might end up being SB if I can determine another good burn spell that would fit with this deck.
4 Toolcraft Exemplar
2 Gearshift Ace
4 Veteran Motorist
4 Chief of the Foundry
4 Depala, Pilot Exemplar
Vehicles (8)
4 Smuggler's Copter
4 Fleetwheel Cruiser
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Sorceries (8)
3 Incendiary Flow
2 Declaration in Stone
3 Collective Defiance
4 Start Your Engines
4 Ovalchase Dragster
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
2 Metalwork Colossus
3 Built to Smash
This deck runs 18 true creatures as pilot targets for Vehicles, not including Gideon's 0 and +1 abilities. It also has 12 artifacts to help smooth out the variation of Toolcraft Exemplar and Chief of the Foundry serves as another lord in this deck. I like the burn package in this deck because it can be used to finish off a player when needed, too.
The Sideboard:
The Overrun Package- used versus control decks, especially ones that keep removing pilots. Add in more vehicles (Ovalchase Dragster) and an Overrun effect in Start Your Engines in order to ignore the pilot rule and go in for a single lethal strike.
The "Walking Tall" Package- used against decks that can chump block for days, even enough to keep us from finishing with Fleetwheel Cruiser. Bring in Nahiri, the Harbinger, Metalwork Colossus, and Built to Smash. Nahiri can find Colossus, and with 12 artifact creatures it is reasonable to hard cast it as well. Built to Smash gives the big body of the Colossus evasion, along with potentially helping other vehicles can more damage over.
Again, all of this is just my first built to test. Changes could very well be made.
Fairgrounds Warden is a good card, but it'll eat just as much removal as Toolcraft Exemplar, probably more since it's going to interact with the opponent's board more.
Also, I think I'm going to replace Aerial Responder with Chief of the Foundry to start off with. This brings the Artifact number up to 12, all along the 2 to 3 to 4 mana curve. It also doesn't affect the creature count for piloting the vehicles.
I'd like to see Fairgrounds Warden in this deck too. So I might be adjusting some creature counts to get it in there, but I like the 18 creatures and 12 artifact count. Besides Toolcraft is currently our only 1 drop and this is very much an aggro deck. Any suggestions for other 1 drops? I have Inventor's Apprentice and Bomar Courier as other possibles.
I'll get on sometime later and post a full deck build with sideboard that I will initially start testing with.