Actually, now that I think about it... Is Marchesa, the Black Rose the best commander for this deck? I'm starting to think that, since I'm going to be cheating creatures out then dropping them into the graveyard, Sedris, the Traitor King would be a decent fit for getting them out of there. He might be more expensive, but he can start doing stuff as soon as he gets onto the field (so long as there are creatures in the graveyard, which there should be), whereas everything only works with Marchesa if she's on the battlefield when other creatures are attacking AND when they die.
Those are good for getting damage through, but what creatures are there that have... like... devastating attack or combat damage triggers? There's the eldrazi annihilators, maybe Hellkite Tyrant for an alternate win-con, uh... Soul Seizer?
Can't believe I didn't think of Tainted Strike myself. Greven, Predator Captain and Malignus would also work with a bunch of other things too. I'm working on finding things to make the creatures unblockable, but should I invest in Trample effects as well, or would that spread the deck too thin?
First I want to know if Marchesa is the best way to handle this. If it is, I'd like to know about other cards that could help make this a force to be reckoned with.
Let's say I have multiple token copies of Body Snatcher out. When one of these tokens dies, does the second ability trigger, or is a token exiling as it hits the graveyard some weird state-based effect that prevents the ability from going off?
I'm building some Grusilda EDH, and I'm trying to find some good, CONSISTENT discard effects. Something like Zombie Infestation that says: Discard a card: Something happens. I know there's stuff like Entomb for getting creatures directly into your graveyard from your library, but I'm looking for something that'll get it out of my hand.
What are some good cards for that?
EDIT: Quick extra question. Is Volrath's Dungeon worth it, or will that get cracked IMMEDIATELY?
After a little help from the people of this forum, I realized my Queen Marchesa life gain deck was dead in the water, especially since there's almost nothing to do with lifegain in red. I'm thinking, now, that tokens might work better.
Is Mardu Token viable? If so, what are the best cards for it? I know Anointed Procession is good for doubling tokens, but what about God-Pharaoh's Gift? Is this sort of recursion good in EDH, or does the exiling make it too much trouble?
I'm trying to find good cards for a Queen Marchesa that gain you life AND make good use of life as a resource. I've already got Aetherflux Reservoir, Exquisite Blood, and Treasonous Ogre, but I'm having trouble finding other cards to fill out the rest. I know Extort is a good mechanic for this, but other than that, I'm stumped.
Part of the problem is I'm not sure how to focus the rest of the deck. I've got a little aggro and a little pillow fort in there to, and I'm not sure whether or not I'll need to trim down on the rest. I plan on including a Mastermind's Acquisition and maybe a Burning Wish, so my deck is gonna have a bit more wiggle room as to what cards I can use.
Graveyard spells... What about Past In Flames or Yawgmoth's Will? Probably the former, since it ALSO has flashback. I think I'll throw in Magus of the Coffers too. That plus Cabal Coffers would give me crazy stupid amounts of mana to hard-cast whatever I want.
I'll also need to change some of the spells considering I was COMPLETELY wrong about how Jeleva's ability worked.
Notion Thief has been surprisingly good in every deck I've put him in; I think you should try him out.
Thanks. I'll give him a shot.
I agree that Nivix Guildmage needs to go; Dual Casting could be a good alternative as it's cheaper and repeatable each turn (more if you can unto your creature). Increasing Vengeance could be awesome as well.
Mmmm... I'm not sure about aura effects.
Guttersnipe might be good; since you're casting a ton of spells, even though it doesn't trigger off of copies.
I suppose, but Oona is really expensive on her own, and she really doesn't fit into the deck.
Wrexial, the Risen Deep should also be in here despite his high cc since the cards hit the GY after you cast them so you can cast them again
[/list]
Wait... That means that... ooooh. I've been looking at this all wrong. I thought the spells stayed with her after she cast them. But it never says "copy, then cast" it's just "cast". Crap...
List tags are malformed.
I conducted a few playtests against another deck of mine, and here's what I've found:
Lurking Informant is SUPER good. For just two mana each turn, I can ensure that my opponent is left without what he or she needs, or at least make it take longer to get to. Arcane Melee is also awesome, as it makes hardcasting spells way easier. Army of the Damned won me a game, and I wouldn't have been able to cast it without the cost reduction. As expected, Strionic Resonator is amazing in this deck, doubling just about everything that Jeleva does.
Other good stuff: Alternative removal is far better in these colors than I thought, and far more necessary. Shuffling a commander back into your opponent's deck can cripple them if they invest too much mana. Plus, it's REALLY easy to make stuff indestructible.
The only thing I'm really not sure about is Thoughtpicker Witch. While her effect is useful, I don't know if I like having to sacrifice a creature for her effect. I'll need to think about this one.
After the last round of tests, I'm starting to think Nivix Guildmage needs to go as well. His copy effect is pretty expensive, and I really don't like the idea of discarding cards.
I've decided to retry my hand at making an EDH, and it has changed quite a bit since the beginning. No longer is it Mono-Black with Maralen of the Mornsong as its general. Now it is Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge and Grixis colors. This one was a bit trickier to build around, so I decided to go with big spells (since you know... Jeleva), and library manipulation. This part is REALLY important because I'm manipulating other libraries as well.
I like Notion Thief's effect for preventing card draws, but if I'm playing this deck right, they're only drawing what I allow them to.
Magus of the Coffers would be great for getting me ridiculous amounts of mana, which I will need if I can't get Jeleva out.
Having found out how Jeleva actually works, I like Wrexial, the Risen Deep for this deck. Being able to cast my opponent's spells again is incredibly useful.
Past In Flames, I think, would be wonderful here. After my spells are gone, I can cast them again from my graveyard, multiple times even thanks to the fact that the card itself has flashback. This becomes INCREDIBLY useful once I have my cost reduction creatures and enchantments out.
And ya know what? I WILL be including an infinite mana combo. Because why not? Just need to find a place for Deserted Temple.
Changelog
August 21, 2014
-Eternal Dominion sounded cool at first, but it's super expensive and could hurt me a lot more than my opponent if things go wrong. I replaced that with Goblin Electromancer.
I've got a few ideas already, like Blightsteel Colossus, Blighted Agent coupled with Hatred, and Master of Cruelties coupled with any creature with Ninjutsu. Depending on how many or how few ETB effects there are, I might even include Phage the Untouchable and Torpor Orb.
First I want to know if Marchesa is the best way to handle this. If it is, I'd like to know about other cards that could help make this a force to be reckoned with.
Any and all help is appreciated.
What are some good cards for that?
EDIT: Quick extra question. Is Volrath's Dungeon worth it, or will that get cracked IMMEDIATELY?
Is Mardu Token viable? If so, what are the best cards for it? I know Anointed Procession is good for doubling tokens, but what about God-Pharaoh's Gift? Is this sort of recursion good in EDH, or does the exiling make it too much trouble?
Also, what about Planeswalkers? I've got Sorin, Grim Nemesis lying around; would he be a good fit? Or should I go for Ajani planeswalkers?
Also... I'm seeing a lot of black and white suggestions, but not much red. How does red fit into life gain?
Part of the problem is I'm not sure how to focus the rest of the deck. I've got a little aggro and a little pillow fort in there to, and I'm not sure whether or not I'll need to trim down on the rest. I plan on including a Mastermind's Acquisition and maybe a Burning Wish, so my deck is gonna have a bit more wiggle room as to what cards I can use.
Any and all advice is welcome and appreciated.
I'll also need to change some of the spells considering I was COMPLETELY wrong about how Jeleva's ability worked.
Wrexial, the Risen Deep WOULD work real well actually, thanks to Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
Thanks. I'll give him a shot.
Mmmm... I'm not sure about aura effects.
What do you think about Sphinx-Bone Wand instead?
I suppose, but Oona is really expensive on her own, and she really doesn't fit into the deck.
Wait... That means that... ooooh. I've been looking at this all wrong. I thought the spells stayed with her after she cast them. But it never says "copy, then cast" it's just "cast". Crap...
List tags are malformed.
Lurking Informant is SUPER good. For just two mana each turn, I can ensure that my opponent is left without what he or she needs, or at least make it take longer to get to. Arcane Melee is also awesome, as it makes hardcasting spells way easier. Army of the Damned won me a game, and I wouldn't have been able to cast it without the cost reduction. As expected, Strionic Resonator is amazing in this deck, doubling just about everything that Jeleva does.
Other good stuff: Alternative removal is far better in these colors than I thought, and far more necessary. Shuffling a commander back into your opponent's deck can cripple them if they invest too much mana. Plus, it's REALLY easy to make stuff indestructible.
The only thing I'm really not sure about is Thoughtpicker Witch. While her effect is useful, I don't know if I like having to sacrifice a creature for her effect. I'll need to think about this one.
After the last round of tests, I'm starting to think Nivix Guildmage needs to go as well. His copy effect is pretty expensive, and I really don't like the idea of discarding cards.
I'm also reserving this next post just in case I need it for anything.
1x Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
Creatures (13)
1x Charmbreaker Devils
1x Echo Mage
1x Elite Arcanist
1x Goblin Electromancer
1x Jhoira of the Ghitu
1x Kaho, Minamo Historian
1x Lurking Informant
1x Maralen of the Mornsong
1x Nightscape Familiar
1x Nivix Guildmage
1x Talrand, Sky Summoner
1x Thoughtpicker Witch
1x Uyo, Silent Prophet
Sorcery (20)
1x Army of the Damned
1x Cruel Ultimatum
1x Curse of the Cabal
1x Decree of Pain
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Dimir Machinations
1x Din of the Fireherd
1x Fissure Vent
1x Head Games
1x Insurrection
1x Mass Mutiny
1x Nightmare Incursion
1x Phthisis
1x Plague Wind
1x Promise of Power
1x Relentless Assault
1x Sadistic Sacrament
1x Sealed Fate
1x Slave of Bolas
1x Temporal Mastery
1x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Instant (10)
1x Chaos Warp
1x Crosis's Charm
1x Dimir Charm
1x Grixis Charm
1x Lim-Dûl's Vault
1x Memory Lapse
1x Second Sight
1x Spin into Myth
1x Sudden Spoiling
1x Terminate
Enchantments (6)
1x Arcane Melee
1x Elemental Augury
1x Psychic Surgery
1x Propaganda
1x Soothsaying
1x Stranglehold
Artifacts (12)
1x Armillary Sphere
1x Crystal Ball
1x Jester's Cap
1x Mirari
1x Obelisk of Grixis
1x Scroll Rack
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Strionic Resonator
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Vedalken Orrery
1x Wayfarer's Bauble
1x Academy Ruins
1x Akoum Refuge
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Command Tower
1x Crumbling Necropolis
1x Dimir Guildgate
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Grixis Panorama
1x Halimar Depths
4x Island
1x Izzet Boilerworks
1x Izzet Guildgate
1x Maze of Ith
1x Molten Slagheap
4x Mountain
1x Rakdos Carnarium
1x Rakdos Guildgate
1x Reliquary Tower
4x Swamp
1x Temple of Deceit
1x Temple of Epiphany
1x Temple of Malice
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vivid Crag
1x Vivid Marsh
As for the various interactions between cards, here's what I have so far:
Maralen of the Mornsong + Stranglehold = Completely shutdown everyone (barring removal).
Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge + Mirari/Echo Mage/Uyo, Silent Prophet = Multiple spells and drastically reduced costs for them.
Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge + Strionic Resonator = Double the amount of exiled cards, and the number of spells I cast with each attack. Add Mirari for even more spells.
(More to come later as I find them)
1 Magus of the Coffers
1 Wrexial, the Risen Deep
1 Past In Flames
1 Deserted Temple
I like Notion Thief's effect for preventing card draws, but if I'm playing this deck right, they're only drawing what I allow them to.
Magus of the Coffers would be great for getting me ridiculous amounts of mana, which I will need if I can't get Jeleva out.
Having found out how Jeleva actually works, I like Wrexial, the Risen Deep for this deck. Being able to cast my opponent's spells again is incredibly useful.
Past In Flames, I think, would be wonderful here. After my spells are gone, I can cast them again from my graveyard, multiple times even thanks to the fact that the card itself has flashback. This becomes INCREDIBLY useful once I have my cost reduction creatures and enchantments out.
And ya know what? I WILL be including an infinite mana combo. Because why not? Just need to find a place for Deserted Temple.
Changelog
August 21, 2014
-Eternal Dominion sounded cool at first, but it's super expensive and could hurt me a lot more than my opponent if things go wrong. I replaced that with Goblin Electromancer.
-I COMPLETELY forgot about the planeswalkers I put in this deck, so I took out Mnemonic Wall and Soldier of Fortune for Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and Jace, the Mind Sculptor, both of which are integral to the manipulation of my opponents' decks.
-I already have Stranglehold, so I don't really need Mindlock Orb. I've replaced it with Psychic Surgery