He finished 53rd with 33 points. Tiebreakers from 33 points went up to 36th place.
What do you guys think of the list in the link. Not sure if all that list is accurate either as it says it contains 61 cards. Im sure they made an error somewhere.
I like it. I think sylavan primordial is better then ashen rider due to the ramp but maybe thats just me. If i didn't have so much control in my local meta i would play hornet queen. The card is amazing, no creature based deck can touch you if you land it. Im not as hot on AOS, it best feature last standard was the ability to loop angels back to your hand reliably t4-5. While you can still do it, its much harder. Also there are some creatures you dont want to give back to your opponent (garry,polo etc).
Chord of Calling version isnt a Toolkit/Combo version. Our deck is still Big Mana "Combo" version, with Chord that is giving options from a sideboard. If you want to play toolkit, play pod, because it is much better in doing it, as it isnt limited to green creatures - any creature from toolkit can be used to fetch other cards. We cant do it, if you draw wrong card you have dead card in hand.
Agreed, thats basicly what i said on reddit. When looking for improvments we should build to this archetypes strengths not try and copy something else (pod).
It's sad that this deck discussion is dead but hey rotation is upon us and this deck looks set to be very well positioned. Re M15 I dont think it added anything major to the current build but again post rotation I think it will gain a few nice tools such as the lands, hornet queen and maybe even endless obedience (however I'm not sold on that one).
I was going to play in a tournament last Saturday but my ride slept in so we missed it. Instead ill post my mini report from the weeks FNM, which I’ll try and keep brief. Firstly this is what I ran:
G1: I t3 Whip of Erebos which is countered by plasm capture into Elspeth which was alarming. The deck was really powerful running all the “standard playable” walkers including Chandra, Nessa, kiora, Elspeth, garruks, ajani’s, jace AOT, xenagos (and all foiled$$!!$$).I thought I might be able to pull it out after Obzedat, Ghost Council had drained him from 18-6 (he had no instant removal) but out of nowhere he dropped a stormbreath dragon/ which forced me to reanimate my Elspeth, Sun's Champion to -3 kill it which also killed my Obzedat. Having seen the majority of his deck and he was about to ultimate with Kiora, Nessa and Elspeth I scooped. His strategy seemed to be flood the board with tokens so a sideboarded with that I mind.
+3x Bile Blight, 2x pithing needle
-2x Shadowborn Demon, 2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion, 1x nyx weaver
G2: he T4 garruk, apex predator, I T6 Sylvan Primordial to blow it up but it’s more of the same. Bile Blight’s did work killing deathtouch beasts and saytars and pithing needle held back Elspeth but the token production of nessa and a second garruk apex killed me.
0-1
G1: t1 thoughtseize is never fun but his T4 master of feast helped me get my cards back. nyx weaver kept me in this match by blocking both the group and air assault. If they had been coursers I’d have lost. I won by Obzedat, Ghost Council draining and a hasty, life linked Sylvan Primordial with whip. This deck is very good in the late game and gains back turns of life with these large swings.
+ 2x blood baron of vizkopa, 2x Abrupt Decay
- 2x Shadowborn Demon, 2x Polukranos, World Eater
G2 he had a decent enough start but I stabilised with nyx weaver and Sylvan Caryatid and dropped a blood baron of vizkopa T4. Interesting interaction, I exiled nyx weaver to return Abrupt Decay to my hand and then killed his master of feast. I love my little spiders
1-1
G1 this guy had played my friend last round so I kinda had an unfair advantage however pre sb burn is too fast for me. Rakdos Cackler and ash zealot with lots of burn to the face killed me quick as a good burn deck should.
+2x Abrupt Decay, 3x Bile Blight, 2x blood baron of vizkopa, 4x Sin Collector
-1x nyx weaver, 2x Shadowborn Demon, 4x Obzedat's Aid, 3x Sylvan Primordial, 1x Whip of Erebos
I basically take out most of the reanimator package and go junk midrange.
G2 same as game one with the cackler zealot however he drops not 1 but 2 Eidolon of the Great Revel on T4 which I don’t really understand. Maybe he was thinking he’d be able to turn off my dig spells? Anyway I drop Polukranos, World Eater and a whip. My life gain is to much and I beatdown.
G3 super close game. He gets me down to 6 before I drop an Obzedat, Ghost Council and start to stabilize. At some point I dropped a whip and swung in with the Obzedat which he traded most of his board for. Next turn I do the old, whip back Obzedat, EOT stack the triggers correctly and bam 4 mana Obzedat. He asked for a judge to explain it which was fine (he was a newish player and it’s a good stack example to learn) judge said I was descusting, I smiled and agreed.
2-1
Final match I get paired up with my friend who is 3-0. I concede to him so he can get 4-0 and we play a quick game for fun.
G1: countered my stuff and d sphered my whip. Blue decks right.
Sb +everything in except 1 bile blight, -most of the reanimator package
G2: T2 Sin Collector to take his only counter (lands and a jace), T3 whip, T4 (after he plays jace) I drop Obzedat. He concedes and we get dinner.
2-2
Overall the deck felt solid. Obzedat gets you wins you have no business winning and I’m going to miss him and blood baron the most after rotation. I have changed the temple of plenty to temple of ma’lady and it seems better in theory. After rotation I'm thinking of running something similar to this, depending on what khans brings us of course. It really needs an Obzedat and Shadowborn demon replacement.
While chord puts the creature directly onto the battlefield,you potentially pay more to do so. My current thinking is paying 1 more is acceptable because then it becomes an instant speed green sun's zenith, anything more and it becomes less efficient. Pact while risky if your subsequent creature is countered, because you loose 4 mana next turn, will always be efficiently costed (<GSZ).
I'm interested to hear what more experienced pilots think is the better tutor for each version (mono green wave and g/w midrange version). I'm still leaning towards pact.
I just saw this up on the Mothership in this week's Perilous Research
The sideboard is really strange, with Stone Rain, Ancient Grudge and Lightning Bolt making appearances with no natural red sources. Primeval Titan is also noticeable in it's absence, with the deck running Expedition Map instead.
Seems more all in on the hard land ramp using the maps to find nykthos regularly and earlier. Also its playing sprawl and fertile ground (7 total) for the red splash i suppose.
Also, wondering about Trinisphere. Doesn't this on Turn 2 just wreck SO MANY decks? Getting it later isn't bad either. I'm working towards a Primal Command build that aims to demolish lands so I'm thinking about boarding 4 in against certain matches. The combo of LD and Trinisphere should prove backbreaking against decks like Zoo, Storm, Delver, Snapcaster Decks, etc.
By all means give it a test. Its obviously less effective in modern than legacy/ vintage due to the higher mana curve of being a "t4 format". I think if you are comparing it to something it would be blood moon in terms of when it comes down and what your trying to achieve. You forgot affinity btw
I don't think that the Genesis Wave has fallen out of fashion, just more discussion about a different version.
The 3 Flex Spots vary from tournament to tournament. I've run Defense Grids in there before, but I'm moving away from them since the addition of Plow Under in the SB
Defense grid seems good. Have you considered cavern of souls For a similar reason to boseiju. The mb seems very similar to what I'm thinking (i recently brought the deck in paper off another player but was very similar to your original list which wizards featured).
My meta is mainly jund, affinity and pod so thats what id sb for. Do you think predator ooze might be a good mb choice taking this into account?
Also, is there a reason not to run summoner's pact? It doesn't play well with genesis wave but it is primeval titan 5-8,craterhoof 2-4 ect.
I actually think that Pact and/or Tooth and Nail are perfectly acceptable in a Genesis Wave version of the deck. Yes, I realize that this goes against some of what I've said before in this thread, but after playing with them I've found one of each works just fine in the deck. I'm likely siding them out vs any form of Cryptic Command/Remand decks, but anything else allows me to win on the spot.
Interesting. So reading the past 10 pages, it seems the genesis wave version has gone out of fashion. Do you have a current list your playing? Im thinking 2 waves, 4 primal currently but id be interested in testing the pact as a3-4of
A certain new green planeswalker looks legit in this deck! I don't want to break the rules but have a look if your interested.
Not to discuss her too much, but the fact that she can only untap Forests is a big red flag for me. Plus, she "competes" with Prime Time for my Magical Christmas Land turn three play
That being said, I'll be testing her out.
Agreed the second ability has been worded that way for a reason. But hey, new toys are fun.
On another note, what manner of sb tech do we have against jund? My meta is full of it and all i have thought of is baloth.
I like it. I think sylavan primordial is better then ashen rider due to the ramp but maybe thats just me. If i didn't have so much control in my local meta i would play hornet queen. The card is amazing, no creature based deck can touch you if you land it. Im not as hot on AOS, it best feature last standard was the ability to loop angels back to your hand reliably t4-5. While you can still do it, its much harder. Also there are some creatures you dont want to give back to your opponent (garry,polo etc).
Agreed, thats basicly what i said on reddit. When looking for improvments we should build to this archetypes strengths not try and copy something else (pod).
It's sad that this deck discussion is dead but hey rotation is upon us and this deck looks set to be very well positioned. Re M15 I dont think it added anything major to the current build but again post rotation I think it will gain a few nice tools such as the lands, hornet queen and maybe even endless obedience (however I'm not sold on that one).
I was going to play in a tournament last Saturday but my ride slept in so we missed it. Instead ill post my mini report from the weeks FNM, which I’ll try and keep brief. Firstly this is what I ran:
4x Elvish Mystic
3x Forest
4x Grisly Salvage
4x nyx weaver
4x Obzedat's Aid
2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
4x Overgrown Tomb
2x Polukranos, World Eater
4x Satyr Wayfinder
2x Shadowborn Demon
3x Swamp
4x Sylvan Caryatid
3x Sylvan Primordial
4x Temple Garden
4x Temple of plenty
4x Temple of Silence
3x Whip of Erebos
4x Bile Blight
2x blood baron of vizkopa
2x pithing needle
1x shadowborn demon
4x Sin Collector
+3x Bile Blight, 2x pithing needle
-2x Shadowborn Demon, 2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion, 1x nyx weaver
G2: he T4 garruk, apex predator, I T6 Sylvan Primordial to blow it up but it’s more of the same. Bile Blight’s did work killing deathtouch beasts and saytars and pithing needle held back Elspeth but the token production of nessa and a second garruk apex killed me.
0-1
+ 2x blood baron of vizkopa, 2x Abrupt Decay
- 2x Shadowborn Demon, 2x Polukranos, World Eater
G2 he had a decent enough start but I stabilised with nyx weaver and Sylvan Caryatid and dropped a blood baron of vizkopa T4. Interesting interaction, I exiled nyx weaver to return Abrupt Decay to my hand and then killed his master of feast. I love my little spiders
1-1
+2x Abrupt Decay, 3x Bile Blight, 2x blood baron of vizkopa, 4x Sin Collector
-1x nyx weaver, 2x Shadowborn Demon, 4x Obzedat's Aid, 3x Sylvan Primordial, 1x Whip of Erebos
I basically take out most of the reanimator package and go junk midrange.
G2 same as game one with the cackler zealot however he drops not 1 but 2 Eidolon of the Great Revel on T4 which I don’t really understand. Maybe he was thinking he’d be able to turn off my dig spells? Anyway I drop Polukranos, World Eater and a whip. My life gain is to much and I beatdown.
G3 super close game. He gets me down to 6 before I drop an Obzedat, Ghost Council and start to stabilize. At some point I dropped a whip and swung in with the Obzedat which he traded most of his board for. Next turn I do the old, whip back Obzedat, EOT stack the triggers correctly and bam 4 mana Obzedat. He asked for a judge to explain it which was fine (he was a newish player and it’s a good stack example to learn) judge said I was descusting, I smiled and agreed.
2-1
G1: countered my stuff and d sphered my whip. Blue decks right.
Sb +everything in except 1 bile blight, -most of the reanimator package
G2: T2 Sin Collector to take his only counter (lands and a jace), T3 whip, T4 (after he plays jace) I drop Obzedat. He concedes and we get dinner.
2-2
Overall the deck felt solid. Obzedat gets you wins you have no business winning and I’m going to miss him and blood baron the most after rotation. I have changed the temple of plenty to temple of ma’lady and it seems better in theory. After rotation I'm thinking of running something similar to this, depending on what khans brings us of course. It really needs an Obzedat and Shadowborn demon replacement.
4x commune with the gods
4x Elvish Mystic
6x Forest
4x hornet queen
4x nyx weaver
4x Polukranos, World Eater
4x rescue from the underworld
4x Satyr Wayfinder
7x swamp
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Temple of ma'lady
4x Temple of Silence
3x Whip of Erebos
Quick discussion point I've been thinking about, chord of calling vs summoner's pact??
While chord puts the creature directly onto the battlefield,you potentially pay more to do so. My current thinking is paying 1 more is acceptable because then it becomes an instant speed green sun's zenith, anything more and it becomes less efficient. Pact while risky if your subsequent creature is countered, because you loose 4 mana next turn, will always be efficiently costed (<GSZ).
I'm interested to hear what more experienced pilots think is the better tutor for each version (mono green wave and g/w midrange version). I'm still leaning towards pact.
Seems more all in on the hard land ramp using the maps to find nykthos regularly and earlier. Also its playing sprawl and fertile ground (7 total) for the red splash i suppose.
By all means give it a test. Its obviously less effective in modern than legacy/ vintage due to the higher mana curve of being a "t4 format". I think if you are comparing it to something it would be blood moon in terms of when it comes down and what your trying to achieve. You forgot affinity btw
Defense grid seems good. Have you considered cavern of souls For a similar reason to boseiju. The mb seems very similar to what I'm thinking (i recently brought the deck in paper off another player but was very similar to your original list which wizards featured).
My meta is mainly jund, affinity and pod so thats what id sb for. Do you think predator ooze might be a good mb choice taking this into account?
Interesting. So reading the past 10 pages, it seems the genesis wave version has gone out of fashion. Do you have a current list your playing? Im thinking 2 waves, 4 primal currently but id be interested in testing the pact as a3-4of
Agreed the second ability has been worded that way for a reason. But hey, new toys are fun.
On another note, what manner of sb tech do we have against jund? My meta is full of it and all i have thought of is baloth.