If you want to search for a bloom, why not run peer through depths? T3 bloom into t4 titan is on curve for this deck
Edit: chalice of the void is powerful (I play 4x in legacy and can give you free wins). The key is knowing the meta and what to set it at before you play it. In legacy this is easy as you'll generally never need higher than a chalice on 2. I think we need a list of what to set chalice against the main decks of legacy. From my experience its 0 against affinity 80% of the time and 100% when on the play.
Re leyline, I remember when I was playing living end we described them as training wheels. They are very good at what they do but when your mulliganing for them you will generally be keeping lackluster hands. My opinion is if you have lots of discard in your meta they are a good choice, Otherwise the 3-4 spots can be put to better use. I've been hearing good things about obstinate baloth as its good vs discard and aggro/burn.
Disclaimer, I'm just getting into the deck but its super fun
btw, my best Genesis Wave story was one cast for 18.
I got Eternal Witness to get my wave back, and enough land and mana doublers to cast it for 22 right after that.
Only 22, you haven't lived until you've broken a board stall in multiplayer with a gwave for 47 I love this deck
Ratchet bomb should be main. Its a REVERSE chalice. it kills what gets trough.
Mishras factory is awesome. its very good against walker like liliana, and ocasionally you can sac them to kuldotha.
Petrified field is awesome to balance hands with two city of traitors or to retrieve a wasted sol land bringing you back in the game.
I really like defense grid in my sideboard. really helps against blue control decks.
I wouldn't say its been a long time. The legacy forums are just naturally slow generally haha.
TheMonster (previous page) had nice words to say about dgrid during his impressive scg open run, i might give them a go in my sideboard also.
Obviously this is super rough but looking at it I think the staff can be cut for something in the future. The idea is not to end the game with one activation but get value out of 1-2. We are still playing the traditional MUD game.
So sneak attack works like lightning greaves except it allows for even more explosive plays, for G2 is better against artifact hate and adds another must answer threat to our arsenal.
Goblin welder becomes super relevant if you go late game after a sneak attack or two, who needs gamble or faithless looting right.
Im really interested in ANY feedback and would really love some MTGO players to give it a play if possible. I'll be taking my prototype to my local next week but until then wont have a chance to play against real people.
Has anyone thought of / experimented with using sneak attack in welder builds? Its not as obscene as dropping an emerakul, but i can see the merits of dropping a wurmcoil, sundering titan or even a blightsteel. Thoughts?
To be fair, that deck is very odd. I think you played fine considering you were making all your play decisions with no prior practice/ knowledge of how the other deck would win/combo/interact with you. G1 hand was fine, your totally correct about the deck mlliganing horribly, sometimes you just need to keep a hand with some game and pray.
Was there any reason you aren't running either the goblin welder or cloudpost/12 post shells? Could you expand any further on the 3sphere vs defense grid?
My main concern with the 12-post mana base is the reduced number of artifacts in the deck, which could adversely impact Metalworker and Kuldotha Forgemaster. Nerv2004, have you found that not having artifact lands has cramped the output of those cards?
Yes and no. You certainly feel the difference but because it become more about locking out your opponent with prison pieces you generally "tinker" later in the game. However because of this you should have at least 2-3 artifacts on the field by that stage. On a similar note, metalworker generally wont tap for more then 8, 6 is more of a realistic number. I don't consider this to much of an issue because 6 is still plenty, its just a similar concession which should be noted.
I suppose you lose some aspect of the combo but gain field control and inevitability.
Also a question for welder builds, has anyone tried faithless looting? It seems like a good card in theory but i haven't play the welder build.
Cloudpost MUD can totally run Cavern of Souls, and I think they should.
The card they don't always run is Wasteland.
I totally agree, but both cards are so good. Wasteland tends to come out on top for me however because land bases in legacy are sooooooooo greedy. However if you couldn't get them id totally run wasteland instead. If you cant get caverns then maybe crystal vein but yeah thats a stretch.
I haven't tested the 12-post mana base, so I've got some questions - I wanna learn!
Part of the reason why I don't run the 12-post mana base is because it doesn't play Cavern of Souls, a card I've found to be invaluable in the tempo matchups. Do you have problems resolving your threats? I also like being able to run artifact lands, making Kuldotha Forgemaster and Metalworker more effective. Since your lands come into play tapped, I can see the early game being tough. But the mana seems more resilient if the game goes long.
Cavern is sooo good, pains me that i cant jam it in. The mana base operates on the same principle as the 12 deck (go figure right). Basically, you sacrifice early tempo for late game inevitability. The difference between 12 post and mud however is we have sol lands and prison pieces like chalice of the void so we don't loose as much tempo.
Four Trinispheres feels like a lot, as they're not good in multiples and are awkward alongside Lodestone Golem. I'd try two or three (I run two main, one side). They're SO gross with Sundering Titan. That would free up one or two deck slots for an accelerant like Mox Diamond - with 24 lands, you could probably pull off one copy, but I don't know if that's what you want, seeing as I haven't played the 12-post version - and/or another monster.
Its a lot but game 1 i want to always see at least 1 of lodestone or trinisphere. Any multiples can generally be played late game for nothing and sac'ed to forgemaster. Without goblin welder i don't need the smaller artifacts as much and i cant really drop any land except for maybe wastelands..... But i don't want to do that haha
I don't think you need three Spine of Ish Sah in the 75. I assume they're for the Sneak 'n' Show matchup. I run a Phyrexian Metamorph main (which is great when it copies Golems and Wurmcoil Engines, but can also copy THEIR cheated-in monster and attack first) and one Spine and one Duplicant in the side. How has Spellskite worked for you? I can see it being effective.
Yeah s&s is the main reason. The list i started with had 2 karn, liberated mb so i wanted to keep some type of permanent destruction onboard. I should try metamorph instead as its certainly more proactive and easier to cast. Spellskite has been very good! Protects metalworker really well and post game can take an abrupt decay like a champ.
Overall, pretty solid list! Can you talk about how the 12-post build plays out?
Basically its sacrificing your early tempo for late game advantage. Glimmerpost gains you back sol land life and cloudpost gets obscene. Its a prison deck first and ramp second. Im still learning the deck and haven't played it outside of the LGS yet however its a blast to play.
The below inside the deck is a really awesome video featuring Wayne Polimine
Hi all, is anyone here playing the 12 post land version of mud? If so what creatures are you running? Ive been thinking of running revoker main because i seem to be bringing it in most games anyway. That would leave me with 1-2 spots for a fatty finisher like hellkite or myr battlesphere.
Edit: chalice of the void is powerful (I play 4x in legacy and can give you free wins). The key is knowing the meta and what to set it at before you play it. In legacy this is easy as you'll generally never need higher than a chalice on 2. I think we need a list of what to set chalice against the main decks of legacy. From my experience its 0 against affinity 80% of the time and 100% when on the play.
Disclaimer, I'm just getting into the deck but its super fun
Secret best card in the 99
Only 22, you haven't lived until you've broken a board stall in multiplayer with a gwave for 47 I love this deck
I wouldn't say its been a long time. The legacy forums are just naturally slow generally haha.
TheMonster (previous page) had nice words to say about dgrid during his impressive scg open run, i might give them a go in my sideboard also.
3 sneak attack
Non-creature artifacts:
3 lotus petal
4 grim monolith
4 chalice of the void
1 staff of domination
Creatures:
4 goblin welder
4 wurmcoil engine
4 lodestone golem
4 metalworker
4 kuldotha forgemaster
1 blightsteel colossus
1 sundering titan
3 steel hellkite
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 cavern of souls
4 wasteland
4 great furnace
Obviously this is super rough but looking at it I think the staff can be cut for something in the future. The idea is not to end the game with one activation but get value out of 1-2. We are still playing the traditional MUD game.
So sneak attack works like lightning greaves except it allows for even more explosive plays, for G2 is better against artifact hate and adds another must answer threat to our arsenal.
Goblin welder becomes super relevant if you go late game after a sneak attack or two, who needs gamble or faithless looting right.
Im really interested in ANY feedback and would really love some MTGO players to give it a play if possible. I'll be taking my prototype to my local next week but until then wont have a chance to play against real people.
Was there any reason you aren't running either the goblin welder or cloudpost/12 post shells? Could you expand any further on the 3sphere vs defense grid?
Congrats on the finish
Yes and no. You certainly feel the difference but because it become more about locking out your opponent with prison pieces you generally "tinker" later in the game. However because of this you should have at least 2-3 artifacts on the field by that stage. On a similar note, metalworker generally wont tap for more then 8, 6 is more of a realistic number. I don't consider this to much of an issue because 6 is still plenty, its just a similar concession which should be noted.
I suppose you lose some aspect of the combo but gain field control and inevitability.
Also a question for welder builds, has anyone tried faithless looting? It seems like a good card in theory but i haven't play the welder build.
I totally agree, but both cards are so good. Wasteland tends to come out on top for me however because land bases in legacy are sooooooooo greedy. However if you couldn't get them id totally run wasteland instead. If you cant get caverns then maybe crystal vein but yeah thats a stretch.
Cavern is sooo good, pains me that i cant jam it in. The mana base operates on the same principle as the 12 deck (go figure right). Basically, you sacrifice early tempo for late game inevitability. The difference between 12 post and mud however is we have sol lands and prison pieces like chalice of the void so we don't loose as much tempo.
Its a lot but game 1 i want to always see at least 1 of lodestone or trinisphere. Any multiples can generally be played late game for nothing and sac'ed to forgemaster. Without goblin welder i don't need the smaller artifacts as much and i cant really drop any land except for maybe wastelands..... But i don't want to do that haha
Yeah s&s is the main reason. The list i started with had 2 karn, liberated mb so i wanted to keep some type of permanent destruction onboard. I should try metamorph instead as its certainly more proactive and easier to cast. Spellskite has been very good! Protects metalworker really well and post game can take an abrupt decay like a champ.
Basically its sacrificing your early tempo for late game advantage. Glimmerpost gains you back sol land life and cloudpost gets obscene. Its a prison deck first and ramp second. Im still learning the deck and haven't played it outside of the LGS yet however its a blast to play.
The below inside the deck is a really awesome video featuring Wayne Polimine
http://www.gatheringmagic.com/insidethedeck-video-12272013-legacy-mud-deck-tech/
Certainly
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Grim Monolith
2x Lightning Greaves
1x Spine of Ish Sah
1x Staff of Domination
1x Staff of Nin
4x Trinisphere
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
4x Vesuva
4x Wasteland
4x Kuldotha Forgemaster
4x Lodestone Golem
4x Metalworker
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Sundering Titan
4x Wurmcoil Engine
2x All Is Dust
1x Batterskull
3x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Platinum Angel
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Spellskite
2x Spine of Ish Sah
2x Tormod's Crypt