I like where this deck is going, actually. I would keep it mono black and focus more on early discard to get the opponent top-decking while we beat them down with powerful rats.
Undergrowth Scavenger saw little to no play, so I would be surprised if this did. While Rhizome Lurcher does come into play with an extra 2/2 stat for the same cost, it only counts your own graveyard as opposed to all graveyards like Scavenger. I'm sure they would end up being pretty similar in size.
Thank you so much for your great insight into the matchup, Einhorn! I will definitely add your suggestions and advice to the Primer.
I think Seal of Removal seems like the most promising tool to fight Tribe, since it's so hard to play around once it's on the battlefield and can be cast preemptively. Lignify comes in as a close second and may be better since it can be tutored for.
These cards could be a slow way for colours with little to no draw to finally get some card draw. 7 mana to draw two cards is really steep, but it is spread out across multiple turns. It also ramps, which is cool.
I also really like Notion Rain. It's a lot like Read the Bones, but being able to put the cards in your graveyard is way more powerful. It could be a good draw spell for decks that play Gurmag Angler and other graveyard shenanigans.
I agree with everything you said. I'll make room for Charge Across the Araba and try to focus more on token generating.
Kindred Boon! I didn't know this was a card! Handing out Divinity Counters sounds great, especially with Myojin of Cleansing Fire for repeatable instant-speed board wipes. Gotta find a spot for that.
I think I'll also include Enlightened Tutor, since I'm starting to have quite a few important artifacts and enchantments. Gives me an excuse to use my foil one, too.
So far, it's been pretty underpowered jank, in my opinion. None of the Surveil stuff has been good, which is sad. Radical Idea is probably the most playable card so far, but it's not even card advantage. The fact that you can play it at instant speed means that it could be interesting in builds that want to discard cards (like Dredge or Madness decks), in which case this would draw them cards in the process, which is great. Are those decks going to want Blue, though? I doubt it.
Mentor is definitely my least favourite mechanic. I like the design of it wanting a high power creature, consequently giving it low toughness and making it fragile. The upside of baby-sitting your Mentor can be pretty big, but the price isn't worth it for now.
You can follow my progress with this deck, if you're interested. It's been a blast in the Tournament practice room so far, an I'll be taking it through a couuple leagues soon.
I had a lot of great suggestions for comments on Youtube. After only two games, Flurry of Horns already feels much more useful in the deck than Beetleback Chief. You lose out on a body, but you can attack right away and having 3 toughness is super relevant in terms of surviving combat and a lot of the removal in Pauper. I think this might be the finisher this deck needed on top of the curses.
I'm going to be trying out the bounce lands. They are there mostly to buff the mana base, making it easier to get to 3 mana and occasionally buying back a Forgotten Cave we played in the early game.
Luxa River Shrine is still on the watch list, but so far it's been doing an ok job. My only issue so far is that in certain games, I won before it ever became relevant. I guess that's not really a problem, though.
Alright... I've played a few games with this deck now. The results are not at all what I expected.
I durdle so much. Sooo much. This deck is so slow, but when it gets going it feels like I can't be killed. And then I eventually die.
I need an actual win condition. Maybe I should bite the bullet and just get an avacyn, angel of hope for the top end (and end-all durdle). Or maybe Storm Herd? Maybe Eldrazi are the way to go? Any suggestions?
I just can't kill the MBC player, honestly. They gain so much life off Tendrils of Corruption and Garys, while drawing double off of a Thorn of the Black Rose without me being able to stop them. I know I can respond to Tendrils with more removal, but that isn't always possible and often they are the ones responding to my removal by killing their creature. We only have so much instant-speed removal. Eventually they can pull off a combo of Merchants and Crypt Rats that deals 30+ damage over just a few turns and kill me. Not to mention that post-board things get even worse as my hand gets picked apart by Wrench Mind and Duress.
Overall I've been pretty even record-wise. It's nice not losing to Delver, though.
I'm going to test out River Shrine for a while and see how effective or janky it is.
I've been testing this deck out online and have been having a blast. My friend caught me playing and asked why I was playing Tanglebloom... I told him it was the best lifegain we could do outside of Talisman. He said: "What about Luxa River Shrine?"
What do you think? The initial cost is much steeper for the same ability, but being able to transition to 2 life a turn for no mana investment seems like a huge upgrade that is worth it. Thoughts?
Also, this deck is miserable to play against MBC...
This will likely be a very useful thread, now that Wizards have announced Pauper Events on MTG Arena. See the link to the Developer Update video here
Currently your ideas fit perfectly with the meta we would see on MTGA, and this will be the case until Ravnica is released in a couple months. After that, it will be an "extended" pool, slowly turning into a larger eternal format as sets are released.
Should be exciting and almost makes me want to try Arena lol. Almost.
I took out Kami of Ancient Law as he seemed like the least powerful of the 2 drops I am currently running. Should it come back in?
How good is Moonlit Strider? He only Soulshifts for 3, which I thought was a bit weak, but saving a creature and getting something back from the graveyard is decent value for 4.
Kirtar's Wrath is definitely an interesting board wipe for the deck, thanks!
I'll try out Eerie Interlude as it's a way to avoid my own board wipes and also others. Definitely on the short list for cuts, I agree.
Field of Souls and Promise of Bunrei: I figure that the only CMC that is safe from my commander is 0, so tokens should be fairly sticky in my games (especially with flying). I think I will cut Field of Souls but keep the Promise for now. Thanks!
Protector of the Crown's main reason for being there is not only the Monarchy trigger, but also the fact that I can stick an Indestructible thing on him and then be immune to damage until they get rid of him (like Darksteel Plate or Shield of Kaldra, among many others). Maybe I should have explained that in the first post.
The deck is currently sitting at 101 cards and will be slimmed down as I make the cuts. Any advice on what to cut would be really appreciated (more so than what cards to add )
I'm trying to get out of my comfort zone in EDH by playing mono-White. This deck is very interesting to me because it forces synergies that I would otherwise think are terrible. Suddenly, most arcane spells are looking great and Splice onto Arcane seems like great value. Soulshift creatures that seemed overpriced suddenly look a lot better.
I'm not sure how this deck is going to play out, honestly. I don't think it's going to be a full-on control deck, but maybe more of a tempo style? Selectively board wipe when needed (often at instant speed) while beating down with creatures of other CMCs? Seems like a really powerful idea. I'm honestly surprised I don't hear about this deck more.
For reference, number of Spirits/Arcane Spells at each CMC: 1= 4 2= 4 3= 5 4= 3 5= 4 6= 4 7= 4 8= 1 2-X= 1
I like the cards that can return themselves or other cards to my hand for reuse, as it means I can repeatedly wipe the board without the need for other cards of that CMC.
I'm not really planning on keeping a CMC devoid of spirits or arcane, preferring to play "on the fly". I think this will cover my bases a lot better.
Tallowisp is a strangely interesting card. It wants to be built around, but what could I include that would work with the deck?
I probably need some actual board wipes in there... I'll have to make room for them first.
I was also very disappointed in the lack of interesting cards/reprints in this Commander series in general. "Lands Matter" seemed like it should have given us at least something interesting...
Good change! Looks a lot more stylish. Although it feels kinda like Facebook and Twitter at the same time. Why do all community websites just imitate the big social media guys?
My favorite card is Deftblade Elite. Although I'm not generally a White player, this card is just so sweet; he has won me games. Whether he's killing a provoked creature every turn with lots of pump like Honor the Pure or Catapult Squad, or he's getting a dangerous blocker out of the way so my other creatures can get through (and lives to do it again!),he gets the job done! Just an all-round good card. and a common 1-drop, too!
I really like your introduction! Very concise and explains where the archetype comes from.
Is Cadaverous Knight really a core creature? It barely looks playable, to me anyways.
Maybe comment on each creature and specify in what style it belongs to (control or aggro), so that we can get a better idea of where they belong. You can also include ''shells'' of decks, in other words cards that must be run in order to make the deck function.
A notable exclusion from your otherwise rather full list is Nameless Inversion. This card is a complete beast in this deck, as it's recurable removal, with cards like Ghoulcaller's Chant and Ghoul Raiser.
Bonesplitter probably deserves a mention, as do other pump spells like Unholy Strength (there are many variants available).
I think Top 8 and Video sections are wishful thinking, as there are no sanctioned paper pauper tournaments. If you can get your hands on some MTGO videos playing Zombies, that might be a useful tool.
I suggest a section on Peasant (five uncommons max). It doesn't require a much bigger metagaming knowledge, just another card search. There are lots of uncommon candidates for Zombies.
A brief (or very detailed) matchup breakdown and analysis would be very appreciated. I like to test against many of the top decks in Pauper to see where mine stands, but I understand it's not possible for everyone, considering play-mates and time.
Overall, I think you're scraping the bottom of the barrel for playable cards, and cutting some of the more "fringe" ones is probably a good idea (you can also use the rating system to determine the value of each card to the deck). But it's a really good start! I look forward to seeing the rest!
4 Typhoid Rats
10 Rat Colony
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Chittering Rats
4 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
3 Raven's Crime
4 Undying Evil
4 Sign in Blood
1 Death Denied
3 Bojuka Bog
4 Barren Moor
2 Mortuary Mire
13 Swamp
Eternal Troops is so close to being a better Vampire Hounds! Why only once per turn?! Why?
I think Seal of Removal seems like the most promising tool to fight Tribe, since it's so hard to play around once it's on the battlefield and can be cast preemptively. Lignify comes in as a close second and may be better since it can be tutored for.
I've been boarding in Relic of Progenitus to help counter Circular Logic, which has helped in a few instances.
Right now my list is looking like this:
3 Fog
4 Tangle
4 Moment's Peace
Draw (19)
4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
2 Think Twice
4 Accumulated Knowledge
3 Tragic Lesson
2 Gush
3 Arcane Denial
4 Muddle the Mixture
Enchantments (4)
4 Jace's Erasure
Lands (19)
2 Forest
7 Island
4 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Thornwood Falls
2 Radiant Fountain
2 Simic Growth Chamber
2 Counterspell
3 Dispel
4 Jaddi Offshoot
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Aerial Volley
2 Penumbra Spider
Selesnya Locket
These cards could be a slow way for colours with little to no draw to finally get some card draw. 7 mana to draw two cards is really steep, but it is spread out across multiple turns. It also ramps, which is cool.
I also really like Notion Rain. It's a lot like Read the Bones, but being able to put the cards in your graveyard is way more powerful. It could be a good draw spell for decks that play Gurmag Angler and other graveyard shenanigans.
I agree with everything you said. I'll make room for Charge Across the Araba and try to focus more on token generating.
Kindred Boon! I didn't know this was a card! Handing out Divinity Counters sounds great, especially with Myojin of Cleansing Fire for repeatable instant-speed board wipes. Gotta find a spot for that.
I think I'll also include Enlightened Tutor, since I'm starting to have quite a few important artifacts and enchantments. Gives me an excuse to use my foil one, too.
So far, it's been pretty underpowered jank, in my opinion. None of the Surveil stuff has been good, which is sad. Radical Idea is probably the most playable card so far, but it's not even card advantage. The fact that you can play it at instant speed means that it could be interesting in builds that want to discard cards (like Dredge or Madness decks), in which case this would draw them cards in the process, which is great. Are those decks going to want Blue, though? I doubt it.
Mentor is definitely my least favourite mechanic. I like the design of it wanting a high power creature, consequently giving it low toughness and making it fragile. The upside of baby-sitting your Mentor can be pretty big, but the price isn't worth it for now.
Here's what I'm thinking right now:
3 Martyr of Ashes
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Flame Slash
4 Firebolt
4 Magma Jet
3 Arc Lightning
4 Staggershock
1 Fissure
4 Curse of the Pierced Heart
4 Pristine Talisman
4 Flurry of Horns
Lands (21)
4 Forgotten Cave
4 Quicksand
4 Rakdos Carnarium
4 Pyroblast
1 Martyr of Ashes
3 Gorilla Shaman
2 Electrickery
3 Pillage
2 Luxa River Shrine
I had a lot of great suggestions for comments on Youtube. After only two games, Flurry of Horns already feels much more useful in the deck than Beetleback Chief. You lose out on a body, but you can attack right away and having 3 toughness is super relevant in terms of surviving combat and a lot of the removal in Pauper. I think this might be the finisher this deck needed on top of the curses.
I'm going to be trying out the bounce lands. They are there mostly to buff the mana base, making it easier to get to 3 mana and occasionally buying back a Forgotten Cave we played in the early game.
Luxa River Shrine is still on the watch list, but so far it's been doing an ok job. My only issue so far is that in certain games, I won before it ever became relevant. I guess that's not really a problem, though.
I durdle so much. Sooo much. This deck is so slow, but when it gets going it feels like I can't be killed. And then I eventually die.
I need an actual win condition. Maybe I should bite the bullet and just get an avacyn, angel of hope for the top end (and end-all durdle). Or maybe Storm Herd? Maybe Eldrazi are the way to go? Any suggestions?
Overall I've been pretty even record-wise. It's nice not losing to Delver, though.
I'm going to test out River Shrine for a while and see how effective or janky it is.
What do you think? The initial cost is much steeper for the same ability, but being able to transition to 2 life a turn for no mana investment seems like a huge upgrade that is worth it. Thoughts?
Also, this deck is miserable to play against MBC...
Currently your ideas fit perfectly with the meta we would see on MTGA, and this will be the case until Ravnica is released in a couple months. After that, it will be an "extended" pool, slowly turning into a larger eternal format as sets are released.
Should be exciting and almost makes me want to try Arena lol. Almost.
I took out Kami of Ancient Law as he seemed like the least powerful of the 2 drops I am currently running. Should it come back in?
How good is Moonlit Strider? He only Soulshifts for 3, which I thought was a bit weak, but saving a creature and getting something back from the graveyard is decent value for 4.
Kirtar's Wrath is definitely an interesting board wipe for the deck, thanks!
I'll try out Eerie Interlude as it's a way to avoid my own board wipes and also others. Definitely on the short list for cuts, I agree.
Field of Souls and Promise of Bunrei: I figure that the only CMC that is safe from my commander is 0, so tokens should be fairly sticky in my games (especially with flying). I think I will cut Field of Souls but keep the Promise for now. Thanks!
Protector of the Crown's main reason for being there is not only the Monarchy trigger, but also the fact that I can stick an Indestructible thing on him and then be immune to damage until they get rid of him (like Darksteel Plate or Shield of Kaldra, among many others). Maybe I should have explained that in the first post.
The deck is currently sitting at 101 cards and will be slimmed down as I make the cuts. Any advice on what to cut would be really appreciated (more so than what cards to add
I'm trying to get out of my comfort zone in EDH by playing mono-White. This deck is very interesting to me because it forces synergies that I would otherwise think are terrible. Suddenly, most arcane spells are looking great and Splice onto Arcane seems like great value. Soulshift creatures that seemed overpriced suddenly look a lot better.
I'm not sure how this deck is going to play out, honestly. I don't think it's going to be a full-on control deck, but maybe more of a tempo style? Selectively board wipe when needed (often at instant speed) while beating down with creatures of other CMCs? Seems like a really powerful idea. I'm honestly surprised I don't hear about this deck more.
For reference, number of Spirits/Arcane Spells at each CMC:
1= 4
2= 4
3= 5
4= 3
5= 4
6= 4
7= 4
8= 1
2-X= 1
I like the cards that can return themselves or other cards to my hand for reuse, as it means I can repeatedly wipe the board without the need for other cards of that CMC.
I'm not really planning on keeping a CMC devoid of spirits or arcane, preferring to play "on the fly". I think this will cover my bases a lot better.
Tallowisp is a strangely interesting card. It wants to be built around, but what could I include that would work with the deck?
I probably need some actual board wipes in there... I'll have to make room for them first.
1 Celestial Kirin
Spirits (24)
1 Kami of False Hope
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Tallowisp
1 Nikko-Onna
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Mirror Entity
1 Hallowed Spiritkeeper
1 Blinking Spirit
1 Moonlit Strider
1 Windborn Muse
1 Karmic Guide
1 Custodi Squire
1 Horizon Seed
1 Hikari, Twilight Guardian
1 Kami of the Palace Fields
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Spirit of the Hearth
1 Patron of the Kitsune
1 Drogskol Cavalry
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Oyobi, Who Split the Heavens
1 Kami of the Honored Dead
Other Creatures (8)
1 Bastion Protector
1 Frontline Medic
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Angel of Flight Alabaster
1 Soul of New Phyrexia
1 Deathless Angel
1 Protector of the Crown
Arcane (6)
1 Ethereal Haze
1 Spiritual Visit
1 Blessed Breath
1 Shining Shoal
1 Otherworldly Journey
1 Terashi's Grasp
Other Spells (5)
1 Condemn
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Crib Swap
1 Eerie Interlude
1 Kirtar's Wrath
Artifacts/Enchantments (19)
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Astral Cornucopia
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Sol Ring
1 Skullclamp
1 Mycosynth Wellspring
1 Darksteel Mutation
1 Spirit Bonds
1 Cloudstone Curio
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Gift of Immortality
1 Promise of Bunrei
1 Shield of Kaldra
1 Sigil of the New Dawn
1 Citanul Flute
1 Mind's Eye
1 True Conviction
Lands (37)
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Drifting Meadow
1 New Benalia
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Winding Canyons
1 Temple of the False God
30 Plains