I've been playing this almost stock Stax list from the OP all day and it's been surprisingly amazing and also a ton of fun to play. The only change I made so far is -1 World Queller for +1 Wildfire. Like the article that the deck is from said, he went for 3 Quellers and 2 Wildfires because of the popularity of Lilliana but Jund's died down a little since then and even then I'm not all that big of a fan of Queller in the first place, it feels pretty slow and clunky.
What do you guys think about maybe moving 2 Chalice to the SB and replacing 2 Queller with something else to free up 4 slots. I'm thinking 2 MD Pyros might help but I'm not sure. Played against a lot of GW hatebears, Faeries, Merfolk, Pod, RB aggro, 8rack, Jund and a bunch of others I forgot today and I think this could be a really good deck with a few tweaks.
Edit: Trying this out and just beat RDW 2/0 with it.
Well I'm a huge hypocrite. i decided to move moon to the SB in favor of more action spells and replaced Ranger of Eos with Mentor of the Meek's crazy card advantage and I'm loving it. Ranger feels slow to me and Mentor is a house late game.
I think that the RW lists are missing something important by not MDing Blood Moon. It wrecks so many modern decks by itself and that new Blue Moon deck that recently did well and got some attention is really just famous for using blood moon. The rest of the deck's just vanilla blue control. Here's my list
This deck is just too sick to not have more people interested in. I like how every card has a huge impact if you pace yourself right so you always have CA. Is anyone still playing it? It's crazy when you can out control UWR and build up huge amounts of tempo.
I just went back to it and my lists still pretty close to Badds.
The thing with Blood Moon is you know when you are going to play it, so you get to fetch your basics / get all set up before dropping it. Some decks (jund, UW, etc) don't have the luxury of fetching basics early because they need access to all their colors, and then moon is gg.
But I do agree that its worth testing something else out in its place.
Genesis chamber is really cool, but its a little iffy for me, because in all the instances its most powerful, I'm already winning. If I have a bouncing Norin and a sister/ajani, I'm already winning. If I have a hand full of dudes to dump, I'm in a good position. Also, every single one of our creatures is chump-blockable, and giving our opponent chumps is kinda annoying. How has your testing with Chamber been?
I also am surprised by 4 Norin. They're legendary, and basically un-removable, so if you have one, you never want to see another. They do nothing on their own, and they're fetchable with Ranger. 4 seems like self-imposed card disadvantage waiting to happen. I'd run MAYBE 2 in a list really reliant on them, but never more.
How has Ajani been for you? His effects are generally considered pretty weak. His + ability is bad for us, because we don't care about the time it buys us because we already have sisters, but it does synergize with one card in our deck (Pridemates). His pump could be incredible with Genesis Chamber, but if you're dropping a dude that costs 4 in modern, he better be game-changing, and Im not sure giving a horde of tokens an anthem effect is broken (if you have a horde of dudes, you're probably already winning).
I've been testing Path instead of Bolt and can't decide which I like better. I generally don't really care about big dudes because ours are bigger (Champion and Pridemate) save possibly wurmcoil, and Bolt is supreme at killing bobs / delvers / early scooze / everything except big dudes. It's also reach, which I've used more than once, in a deck that is otherwise lacking it completely. Then again, being able to deal with wurmcoils and huge goyfs is always good.
Chambers been really good for me. With the amount of creatures we run, not even counting blinking Norins, it usually benefits us much more than opponents.
The Ajani's there to break up long stalemates and I mean looooong stalemates. Before I had him i played enough stalled games against midrange decks that went on for so long I literally won by drawing the opponent out (didn't have Bob in those games). Ajani's good to fix that and his +1 does work well with Pridemate.
As for the 4 Norins, he is a legendary but it's a card I want to see every game, especially with Chambers. I've won a ton of games off of just Norin + Chambers since they're so hard to remove. Those 2 alone create a nasty engine for just 3 mana that gets that much better with what ever creatures you drop afterwards. People usually side in wipers which kill all the tokens but Norin just evades that and keeps blinking and generating more. Running all 4 is more of a consistency thing and I'd rather play it t2 after a Champion or a sister than late game after having to fetch it.
I think with Path vs Bolt it comes down to if you run Blood Moon or not. You don't want to path something when you have a moon out and let your opponent fetch a basic and Bolt's just easier to cast with a moon out since it's red. Either way though, I always have a few paths in the SB for twin.
Spent about half of today testing. This deck is enormously fun. Turn 3 5/5 pridemates, turn 4 8/8s, huge champions, blanking kiki combo by accident. Its seriously the most fun I've had playing magic in months. Made a few tweaks, current list:
Im not sure about Lightning Helix, that's still kind of a flex slot, but it clears paths and triggers Pridemate as a bonus. Also, the deck has a tough time against burn because of its manabase (you have to aggressively mulligan for sister-heavy hands, basically), and it helps there. Sideboard is a bit of a mess, but the thoughtseizes really help with storm, which is otherwise difficult.
Not a whole lot of specifics or requests, as I have my own list of questions I plan on answering over the next few days. Just letting everyone know that it's working and pretty powerful, if slightly inconsistent in its game-plan (a hand full of pridemates is annoying), and to encourage people to pick it up for some fun. I have ~65% winrate in mtgo 1v1s, and went 4-0, 3-1, 3-1 in 8mans so far. This is partly because of 8mans / 1v1s drawing lots of funky decks with weak manabases that bloodmoon autowins, and partly because of 10/10 beaters on turn 5. Weeeeeeee
I'm not sure if Blood Moon is still worth running in the 3 color version since you're only left with 4 basics in the deck.
I think Genesis Chamber is still worth running like in the old Norin lists for Ajani and crazy sister and Norin triggers. I've won a ton of games off of just Norin + Chamber since they're so hard to remove.
4 thoughtseize in a slowish deck prone to getting rolled by aggro seems kinda weird to me. 4 Git probe also seem kinda random even though I do see the interaction with Meddling Mage and Seize but that's a lot of life loss with no way to get it back. Then again Sleight/serum also seem random in the other lists also since it's more of a combo or delver card.
Interesting. I'd definitely add Runed Halo in there somewhere. I'd take out the Spreading Seas in the premier list. Halo just shuts down so many cards and combos.
Hey are people still playing Snapcaster in this deck? I used to play it when people just first started using him in here but now I'm not seeing him around as much anymore.
It works surprisingly well against most t1 decks and is pretty complex and fun to play in addition to being pretty resilient. DRS and Ooze hurt it but there's ways to deal with them and i've even been able to bounce back from relics in Tron, keeping them off lands with Ghost Quarter, Tec Edge, Loam, Discard and Sowing Salt. Aggro can be stalled with spirit tokens, Lil, and removal and combos slowed with discard. Haven't lost a game with it today on cockatrice. Most other GY hate isn't really seen too much other than and RIP or two in the SB in WUR control with eggs and storm gone from the meta now.
I fell out with this deck but I just picked it up again and started playing a UBW list based off of Dean Bilz list and doing really well with it on cockatrice.
Really liking Path so far with trap and RIP in the SB. Just wondering what people think of thought scour? It mills 2 cards and replaces itself but it doesn't offer any card advantage and mill a significant amount. Is it worth running over just more mill like orb or mind sculpt or snapcaster?
4 Arid Mesa
4 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Mountain
4 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Tectonic Edge
Creatures
4 Magus of the Tabernacle
2 World Queller
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Lightning Helix
4 Oblivion Ring
2 Chalice of the Void
3 Wildfire
Artifacts
3 Crucible of Worlds
Ramp
4 Boros Signet
2 Mind Stone
Planeswalkers
3 Ajani Vengeant
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Pyroclasm
2 Rest in Peace
2 Torpor Orb
2 Runed Halo
2 Suppression Field
2 Pithing Needle
I've been playing this almost stock Stax list from the OP all day and it's been surprisingly amazing and also a ton of fun to play. The only change I made so far is -1 World Queller for +1 Wildfire. Like the article that the deck is from said, he went for 3 Quellers and 2 Wildfires because of the popularity of Lilliana but Jund's died down a little since then and even then I'm not all that big of a fan of Queller in the first place, it feels pretty slow and clunky.
What do you guys think about maybe moving 2 Chalice to the SB and replacing 2 Queller with something else to free up 4 slots. I'm thinking 2 MD Pyros might help but I'm not sure. Played against a lot of GW hatebears, Faeries, Merfolk, Pod, RB aggro, 8rack, Jund and a bunch of others I forgot today and I think this could be a really good deck with a few tweaks.
Edit: Trying this out and just beat RDW 2/0 with it.
4 Arid Mesa
4 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Mountain
4 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Tectonic Edge
Creatures
4 Magus of the Tabernacle
Spells
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Lightning Helix
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Wildfire
2 Boom // Bust
2 Pyroclasm
1 Anger of the Gods
3 Crucible of Worlds
Ramp
4 Boros Signet
2 Mind Stone
PlanesWalkers
3 Ajani Vengeant
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Rest in Peace
2 Torpor Orb
2 Runed Halo
2 Suppression Field
2 Pithing Needle
2 Shattering Spree
-1 Tectonic Edge
+1 Mountain
-2 Queller
+2 Boom // Bust
-2 Chalice of the Void
+2 Pyroclasm
-1 Oblivion Ring
+1 Anger of the Gods / Firesprout
4 Ajani's Pridemate
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Soul Warden
4 Soul's Attendant
4 Norin the Wary
3 Mentor of the Meek
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Genesis Chamber
3 Proclamation of Rebirth
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
6 Plains
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Arid Mesa
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Marsh Flats
1 Kher Keep
1 Mountain
2 Stony Silence
3 Suppression Field
3 Rest in Peace
2 Brave the Elements
2 Shattering Spree
3 Blood Moon
4 Ajani's Pridemate
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Soul Warden
4 Soul's Attendant
4 Norin the Wary
3 Ranger of Eos
1 Legion Loyalist
Spells
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Path to Exile
3 Genesis Chamber
3 Blood Moon
2 Proclamation of Rebirth
2 Purphoros, God of the Forge
6 Plains
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Arid Mesa
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Marsh Flats
1 Kher Keep
1 Mountain
2 Stony Silence
3 Suppression Field
3 Rest in Peace
2 Rule of Law
2 Torpor Orb
2 Shattering Spree
1 Proclamation of Rebirth
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=535550
I just went back to it and my lists still pretty close to Badds.
2 Spell Snare
3 Remand
2 Mana Leak
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Cryptic Command
1 Bant Charm
3 Path to Exile
1 Condemn
1 Deprive
1 Wrath of God
1 Oust
1 Timely Reinforcements
Creatures
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Sun Titan
1 Restoration Angel
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Reveillark
3 Coiling Oracle
3 Eternal Witness
3 Flooded Grove
2 Celestial Colonnade
2 Stirring Wildwood
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Breeding Pool
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Temple Garden
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Seachrome Coast
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Life from the Loam
1 Nature's Claim
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Runed Halo
1 Nevermore
1 Day of Judgment
1 Lone Missionary
1 Pithing Needle
1 Damping Matrix
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Celestial Purge
1 Negate
The deck just feels like it can handle almost any situation especially after boarding.
Chambers been really good for me. With the amount of creatures we run, not even counting blinking Norins, it usually benefits us much more than opponents.
The Ajani's there to break up long stalemates and I mean looooong stalemates. Before I had him i played enough stalled games against midrange decks that went on for so long I literally won by drawing the opponent out (didn't have Bob in those games). Ajani's good to fix that and his +1 does work well with Pridemate.
As for the 4 Norins, he is a legendary but it's a card I want to see every game, especially with Chambers. I've won a ton of games off of just Norin + Chambers since they're so hard to remove. Those 2 alone create a nasty engine for just 3 mana that gets that much better with what ever creatures you drop afterwards. People usually side in wipers which kill all the tokens but Norin just evades that and keeps blinking and generating more. Running all 4 is more of a consistency thing and I'd rather play it t2 after a Champion or a sister than late game after having to fetch it.
I think with Path vs Bolt it comes down to if you run Blood Moon or not. You don't want to path something when you have a moon out and let your opponent fetch a basic and Bolt's just easier to cast with a moon out since it's red. Either way though, I always have a few paths in the SB for twin.
RW
4 Ajani's Pridemate
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Soul Warden
4 Soul's Attendant
3 Ranger of Eos
4 Norin the Wary
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Genesis Chamber
3 Blood Moon
2 Proclamation of Rebirth
2 Ajani Goldmane
6 Plains
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Arid Mesa
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Marsh Flats
1 Kher Keep
1 Mountain
3 Stony Silence
3 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Proclamation of Rebirth
4 Disenchant
I agree on the Blood Moon especially in this meta.
I'm not sure if Blood Moon is still worth running in the 3 color version since you're only left with 4 basics in the deck.
Here's my list:
4 Ajani's Pridemate
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Soul Warden
4 Soul's Attendant
3 Ranger of Eos
4 Norin the Wary
Spells
4 Genesis Chamber
2 Proclamation of Rebirth
2 Ajani Goldmane
3 Path to Exile
2 Plains
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Arid Mesa
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
4 Dark Confidant
2 Blood Crypt
3 Godless Shrine
1 Swamp
3 Stony Silence
1 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Proclamation of Rebirth
2 Disenchant
4 Thoughtseize
I think Genesis Chamber is still worth running like in the old Norin lists for Ajani and crazy sister and Norin triggers. I've won a ton of games off of just Norin + Chamber since they're so hard to remove.
4 Ajani's Pridemate
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Soul Warden
4 Soul's Attendant
3 Ranger of Eos
3 Norin the Wary
1 Grim Lavamancer
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Genesis Chamber
2 Proclamation of Rebirth
1 Pillar of Flame
1 Blood Moon
6 Plains
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Arid Mesa
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Marsh Flats
1 Kher Keep
1 Mountain
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Stony Silence
4 Path to Exile
3 Rest in Peace
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Blood Moon
After playing it a little bit I have to say it feels pretty powerful and fun.
1 Academy Ruins
10 Island
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
Creatures
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
3 Treasure Mage
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Expedition Map
1 Oblivion Stone
3 Talisman of Dominance
2 Mindslaver
Spells
4 Condescend
4 Remand
1 Spell Burst
3 Repeal
4 Thirst for Knowledge
11 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Blood Crypt
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Verdant Catacombs
Spells
4 Thoughtseize
3 Raven's Crime
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Duress
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Waste Not
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 The Rack
Here's his newest video
http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-twoo-modern-dredge-2/
Ands some more links
http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-twoo-modern-complex-dredge/
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/woo-brews-complex-dredge-for-modern/
His newest list:
1 Griselbrand
2 Borborygmos Enraged
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Stinkweed Imp
Spells
4 Unburial Rites
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
4 Life from the Loam
4 Drown in Filth
4 Raven's Crime
4 Faithless Looting
Lands
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Swamp
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Marsh Flats
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Darkblast
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Gavony Township
1 Arid Mesa
1 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Sin Collector
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Pyroclasm
1 Smallpox
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Tectonic Edge
And here's what I've been playing
1 Griselbrand
2 Borborygmos Enraged
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Stinkweed Imp
Spells
4 Unburial Rites
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
4 Life from the Loam
4 Drown in Filth
4 Raven's Crime
4 Faithless Looting
Lands
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Swamp
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Marsh Flats
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Darkblast
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Forest
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Ray of Revelation
3 Pyroclasm
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Duress
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Sowing Salt
It works surprisingly well against most t1 decks and is pretty complex and fun to play in addition to being pretty resilient. DRS and Ooze hurt it but there's ways to deal with them and i've even been able to bounce back from relics in Tron, keeping them off lands with Ghost Quarter, Tec Edge, Loam, Discard and Sowing Salt. Aggro can be stalled with spirit tokens, Lil, and removal and combos slowed with discard. Haven't lost a game with it today on cockatrice. Most other GY hate isn't really seen too much other than and RIP or two in the SB in WUR control with eggs and storm gone from the meta now.
4 Marsh Flats
3 Darkslick Shores
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Watery Grave
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Shelldock Isle
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Hedron Crab
Spells
4 Visions of Beyond
4 Path to Exile
4 Surgical Extraction
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Breaking // Entering
2 Mind Funeral
4 Archive Trap
4 Darkness
4 Thought Scour
3 Rest in Peace
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Echoing Truth
2 Stony Silence
3 Disenchant
2 Crypt Incursion
Really liking Path so far with trap and RIP in the SB. Just wondering what people think of thought scour? It mills 2 cards and replaces itself but it doesn't offer any card advantage and mill a significant amount. Is it worth running over just more mill like orb or mind sculpt or snapcaster?