The same can be said of most anything. ... I'm not saying I think they Tooth and Nail and Protean Hulk should or shouldn't be banned, just saying that "it can be used fairly" really doesn't mean that much.
Of course not. Any card outside CV can be used fairly, I am just saying Hulk and Druid are close enough that 'can be used fairly' should apply or not to both.
I know the RC does not like direct comparison between banned and unbanned cards, but this seems really direct.
This is true. But even playing a Hulk on a board with no sac outlets turns the game very perilous, because if it dies without an exile effect, the game is over. Would you play a 5GG 6/6 with "When this creature dies, win the game"?
"Not playing with those people" is not that easy. There are players I refuse to play against, and it means I often have to sit out of games with friends to avoid those players. And if I just wrapped up a game with two other people, and we shuffle up to play again, and a person I don't want to play with comes up to be the fourth, I'm literally in no position to tell him that he can't play, and if I do, I'm the bad guy.
The game is only over if the player wants to build that deck that way. You cannot stop people like that with the ban list. This seems to be the position of the RC as well based on their posts.
I am not saying you should try and stop the person from playing. I am saying increase your level of enjoyment by not playing. I avoid the guy who practically RUNS EDH in my area because I do not care for his always-combo-win-turn-5 jank. And when I do, I convince the other 3 people to go all out at him until he is eliminated.
I'm not on the RC. But I've read enough of their posts on bannings to be able to give their logic for a certain situation, and largely I agree with their decisions, with a few exceptions (I believe Hermit Druid should be banned, and Tooth and Nail should share its fate with Protean Hulk, but it sounds like those last two are at least being talked about).
I agree that Hermit Druid is similar to Hulk, they take a fair amount of dedicated deckslots to be truly broken.
I also agree that stopping ooze doesn't really help. However, your suggestion of "don't play with that person" is also not always plausible, and it is not the indicator of a healthy format.
I am aware you are not on the RC, and you should not speak for others like you are.
This is an easily broken format, if people want to combo you out on T3, or grief you until T60, they can. I play those people one time, like the RC. I can tell you really pay attention to their posts.
I think the logic is, Hermit Druid is used fairly (as a way to stock your graveyard and cheaply generate card advantage) while Necrotic Ooze is only used to combo out.
That said, it wouldn't really affect Druid at all. There are tons of ways for druid to win. Heck, they could win by returning a Mimeoplasm as Hydra Omnivore with Lord of Extinction's counters and Anger or Dragon's Breath in the yard, bashing immediately for around 100 to all opponents.
Actually, i think it is you who are being obtuse. Protean Hulk is banned for being an "I win now" card. It doesn't say it on the card itself, but that's the reason.
I was unaware you were on the RC. That being said, I know why it is currently banned, I think that logic is incorrect. It has legit uses as does Hermit Druid, they should share a fate whatever the RC decides that should be.
Necrotic ooze should not be banned to stop one combo in a dedicated combo deck. Players should stop that by not playing that person anymore.
I guess my concern is, if Coalition Victory is banned for being an automatic win sorcery barring spot removal or a counterspell, and Protean Hulk is banned for being a creature that can tutor into an autowin on death (again, barring spot removal or a counterspell), how is Tooth and Nail okay, when it can tutor into an autowin barring spot removal or a counterspell?
It seems like you went out of your way to ignore his post. CV has no other use, it is "I win, shuffle". Creatures can be cheated in a LOT easier than 9 CMC sorcerys that have legit uses. I DO NOT agree with the Hulk ban, but being obtuse on purpose just defeats what the rest of us are trying to explain.
I'm torn on DotH because I have honestly never seen it go off. It requires a full cycle to go off. And you can argue "but people can give it flash", well if they do that it is no longer a 1 card combo. But no, I would not be sad to see every single card that tutors more than 1 permanent into play gone.
It sounds like you just dislike tutors. There are playgroups that dis-allow them, maybe try and find or start one.
I'd really like to hear the RC's opinion on Tooth and Nail in regards to banning it. If it has ever been considered and tested. The issue the vast majority of green decks run it so it seems like an unbannable card, even though it is horribly degenerate.
If it is banned, do you ban Defense of the Heart too?
This applies to 88% of all banned cards too. Let's try to come up with another reason that is EXACTLY right...
Mind showing your math here? I would say that Hermit Druid and Pro Hulk are both the types of cards people should be allowed to use. If you want to win T3, get used to people running you from their games. C. Victory is just jank, and should be banned to teach new people what NOT to do (win with one sorcery).
Mass LD will blowout people who are not prepared with their decks/playstyle and enrage people who have limited control of their emotions.
If you play mass land dest and don't win on the next turn I would never play you again. This is just griefing for griefing sake. I use the social contract to increase my fun factor
I thought that The Grindstone/Servant combo was already a thing in EDH, and the RC banned Grindstone, but after the Servant/Iona interaction they swapped Grindstone for Painter's Servant since it fueled both combos.
The creative things, like 8.5 Tails protection or Jaya Ballard vindicates, are the kinds of uses I would like Servant around for. They're powerful but not broken interactions.
I think that the logic there is backwards. Grindstone has very few interesting uses, and Iona has a single purpose that seems contrary to the goals of the format.
I really have to agree with this. Iona seems like a total lockout card with no other real legit uses. Not letting people play is un-fun.
Servant can be used to do awesome, or just quirky fun things, and does not really fuel more combos that say Worldgorger Dragon.
I know the RC does not like direct comparison between banned and unbanned cards, but this seems really direct.
I am not saying you should try and stop the person from playing. I am saying increase your level of enjoyment by not playing. I avoid the guy who practically RUNS EDH in my area because I do not care for his always-combo-win-turn-5 jank. And when I do, I convince the other 3 people to go all out at him until he is eliminated.
This is an easily broken format, if people want to combo you out on T3, or grief you until T60, they can. I play those people one time, like the RC. I can tell you really pay attention to their posts.
Only if people want to play it like that.
Necrotic ooze should not be banned to stop one combo in a dedicated combo deck. Players should stop that by not playing that person anymore.
It seems like you went out of your way to ignore his post. CV has no other use, it is "I win, shuffle". Creatures can be cheated in a LOT easier than 9 CMC sorcerys that have legit uses. I DO NOT agree with the Hulk ban, but being obtuse on purpose just defeats what the rest of us are trying to explain.
It sounds like you just dislike tutors. There are playgroups that dis-allow them, maybe try and find or start one.
If it is banned, do you ban Defense of the Heart too?
Mind showing your math here? I would say that Hermit Druid and Pro Hulk are both the types of cards people should be allowed to use. If you want to win T3, get used to people running you from their games. C. Victory is just jank, and should be banned to teach new people what NOT to do (win with one sorcery).
Servant can be used to do awesome, or just quirky fun things, and does not really fuel more combos that say Worldgorger Dragon.