Quote from CHAULKLET_WASTED »
That is a very tree huggy attitude to have towards deck building - I don't think it is very practical though when what makes you happy collides with what makes me happy and then it no longer becomes a friendly game because players are only looking out for their fun.
But it's a pretty good attitude no? The deck you are playing (and will be building) needs to be satisfying to you. I have decks with 0 fetches (Sasaya), 1-2 fetches (Lady Evangela) and 4+ fetches (Zedruu). It doesn't really impact my friends though if my manabase is junky or whatever. We really do just sit down and have one to two hour games, then shuffle our big piles of cards and play another monstrously big game. Are there times when we want a shorter game because obligations? Sure. In that case we can be a little more cutthroat, but thankfully those times are less and less present.
Simply, you can do fine (caveat: meta-dependent) just with the Evolving Wilds-type fetches for the most part.
In fact, I'd rather play with a ton of non-basics to get my colour fixes than a ton of fetches.
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That's kind of a life problem, though, isn't it? You can't please everyone all of the time, and you shouldn't sit down expecting to. The bigger issue here is that most people tend to play with the same people, at least when it comes to EDH. There are games at local shops, of course, but I think by and large a lot of people tend to have regular games with the same people. You and I are unlikely to ever play together, so the problem you suggest isn't likely going to happen. Even if we did, I think we would quickly realize that our play-styles weren't that compatible, right? The only time it is a problem is when someone gets angry, but like someone said, that is a people problem. That is that individuals issue, not yours.
It may be a tree-huggy attitude, but it isn't a bad one. It's a bad attitude to think that everyone should conform to one idea.
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The one that makes you happy. Maybe you are happy with the cards you picked because of something as arbitrary as the artwork, or creature type. Maybe you are drawn to a specific flow, or even specific colors, and the fact that other colors, while not technically part of the fetch, are shown on the card, bother you. There are a host of reasons why a specific deck building strategy is right... for that individual. For some people optimization is the thing they are looking for - this is, in my view, just as right as any other reason... But to me it has to come down to the individuals taste. In so many other formats if you aren't playing one of these specific decks, you aren't winning. In so many other formats everything is so utterly formulaic, and you fall into this trap of playing the same thing as everyone else... It doesn't *have* to be like that in EDH; optimized decks or decks decided based on the artwork on the forest used are both welcome here, and oddly enough both get made. That's what gets me excited to play EDH more than any other format.
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I really dislike the sentiment "just what you do." I haven't accepted that, and clearly a lot of others haven't either. If I were playing more competitively, I could see myself running them, but I tend to play in really relaxed games. That isn't to say we aren't trying to win - we definitely are, but none of the people I play with are in that mindset.
I don't disagree with most of your reasoning, but I do disagree that there should be this idea of "this is just what you do."
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No, it hasn't. I still love the hell out of my Gilded Drake, though.
As for the Scavenger Folk... I mean, it has a relevant use, but I feel like there are a lot of better options. At the same time... The artwork... So creepy. It's one of those cards that belongs in a deck that focuses on creep-factor.
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We're just not going to agree here. I think the rules bring value to a game, whether I am playing in a tournament or in my home, and I think ignoring them cheapens the entire experience. You clearly don't feel that way - that's fine, I haven't been trying to tell you otherwise, only explain why I feel the way I do. You are entitled to play Magic how you want, with or without the rules.
Oh, and these aren't competitive rules. These are just the rules. Whether you choose to ignore them or not, it doesn't change their status as the rules, only how you view them.
EDIT: And to not completely ignore the issue of shuffling, I'll admit to simply not being aware of that. To be honest, in my experience someone who poorly shuffles their deck is probably going to lose anyway, due to mana issues, especially if it is the second game we've sat down to play. I still see it as different though. We're talking about text on a card that was knowingly played and a player, despite having said knowledge, not following through on it. Shuffling your deck poorly could be argued as a matter of perspective, because people shuffle their decks differently. What the card says isn't open for interpretation or a debate.
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I think this is really at the crux of it for me here, and probably why I feel the way I do about it - the information is out there, everyone sees it, everyone knows it. Including, and especially, the player who cast it. I might forgive it a few times if the card is new and the player just got it, and maybe it was habit to just reach for that card, but after that? The player knew what they had to do when they cast the card, and should have stuck to it, or done something to remind themselves. One person suggested putting a dice on top of the deck, which is a fine idea.
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While I respect the banlist, I have to agree with this sentiment. When it happened I looked at all the games I have played with it, even the ones where I abused it, and it never felt absurd to me. It always seemed like it got banned because people whined about it, not because it was a real issue.
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This can be super relevant with some players who don't like to lose, or who like to have very specific games. I had a buddy that, when I would go over to his place to play, would have his first hand always drawn and sitting on the table like he was ready to go, and like clockwork if I didn't make him shuffle up in front of me and let me cut the deck he would get the same cards that game. Some people just can't stand losing, or, and I hate accusing anyone one of this, but some people just straight up cheat. Cheating poorly is still cheating.