I think that UR Delver is comparable to Boggles. Whether it's better is debatable, but I don't think you can say either is better.
As for Affinity, it consistently top 8s events, and has consistently done so for the past two years. It belongs on this list as much as any other deck does. Whether or not you like the deck, I think basically everyone who plays Modern and knows the format would accept it.
Domain Zoo is one of these decks with a really good best-case. You're playing stuff like Tribal Flames that literally wants you to go all-out and win as fast as you can. You end up having some really bad matchups that make your deck difficult to win with, like Burn (because they can race you) or Soul Sisters (because you often run out of cards before you kill them). Additionally, your goal is to win before turn 4 against all these combo decks like Twin and Scapeshift, so mediocre hands don't really get there. If you're capable of piloting it well and feel really comfortable with it, all the power to you. That said, it's definitely not a tier 1 deck in the current meta, and people know that, hence it hasn't really put up any results.
Don't get me wrong you're opinions were well received. I was just saying, you know. But I did talk it over with some of the other people involved in the list and we will be building...
Affinity
Twin
GR tron
Scapeshift
Rock (we are undecided on which build)
and probably a couple other cheaper decks like burn, UR delver and hatebears.
Okay, so I have several Modern decks put together. I am looking to build about four more decks, but I don't know what I want to build. I need some suggestions. Please only suggest decks that are actually good, like having winning finishes in larger tournaments or something similar.
The decks I currently have built are
1. UWR Control
2. Domain Zoo
3. BW tokens
4. Melira Pod
So yeah, suggest away please.
p.s. A link to some kind of list would be awesome.
Moved to "What Deck Should I Play" thread
-ktkenshinx-
I assume you're building a gauntlet so you would want a wide range of decks and styles. And you also want top tier decks.
I'm just going to preface this by saying BW Tokens and Domain Zoo are not tier 1 decks (which you're asking for). They've seen GP play but not consistent results, if even top 8 results any time recently.
Anyways, going back to the topic at hand, you're trying to find a wide range of decks. You've got one control, one combo, one midrange, and one aggro. That's a good start, so we'll try to fill that out by finding a second for each archetype.
Aggro - Affinity is the clear choice here. It's the best aggro deck in the format and it has performed consistently for as long as I can remember in the format. I would go for a more traditional build, but with Ensoul Artifact (since it's powerful). Frank Karsten has a more recent list that he ran a daily event with, and he came 9th in a recent GP with a very similar build.
Control - Tron. I like a gauntlet having some Tron build because they're fairly unique. Although I like UW Tron a lot, I'd recommend a RG Tron list instead. Maybe you don't consider it so much control, but we'll call it that anyways. This is partially because we don't have a lot of other decks that are both good and can be classified as such. RG Tron is making a comeback, as it just top 8'd GP Kobe.
Midrange - BGx Rock. Whether you take BG Rock, Jund, or Junk, you need something of this sort. It's a deck that's been around forever and people keep playing it. The power of a deck with Goyf/Bob is really strong, and it's always going to be a thing.
Combo - Twin. Twin has been here since they finalized the initial ban list and it's going to continue to stay there. The idea of a deck that can win on turn 4, but isn't strictly a combo deck is really strong. Having the flexibility to play a tempo or control type deck is good. I won't recommend UWR Kiki Control because it's too similar to what you have, but I can recommend UR Twin or UWR Twin.
In case some of the options aren't feasible for whatever reasons, here is a list of how I would order options:
Affinity
BGx (BG, Junk, Jund, in that order)
Twin
RG Tron
Scapeshift
Burn
Merfolk
UR Delver
Boggles (Aura Hexproof)
Mono U/UW Tron
Infect
Storm
Hopefully you can come to some conclusion.
Very concise, thank you for your thoughts. I do have a quick question though. Would you really place UR delver over Bogggles? I have played both decks and Boggles just feels better as a deck.
About the two decks you have said above that are not tier 1, while I agree, obviously. I only have bw tokens cause it was cheap and used none of the cards in my other decks that I didn't have multiples of. Then, Domain Zoo, that is my personal preference of play style. I don't like the affinity deck myself, and Domain Zoo trounces that deck if pioleted correctly. It also doesn't see a lot of splash hate from other decks other than wrath effects which aren't as big of a deal as a lot of people seem to think.
But, on to the real business here, me building decks!
Rock - I will likely have a rock style deck put together more permanently when I can put together my second set of Tarmogoyfs.
Twin - I like the idea of building this. It seems really good, I think this is going to make the list as well.
Affinity - I do need another aggro deck, and the ensoul artifact card is pretty powerful and gives the deck another line of attack that doesn't care about most hate brought in. I am not really sold on this deck though.
RG Tron - This will cost me a bit of money, but not totally out of the question. It does seem pretty strong though and if it is on an up rise, it would be a good deck.
Scapeshift - This deck seems okay too. I trounced it in a recent ptq I was at, with my domain deck. I am sure some of it was luck but being able to win the turn before they go off when on the play helps. Also if they keep an average draw that doesn't have them going off on turn 4 I feel isn't really soon enough.
But These will probably be the decks I end up building. I think I am going to total out at about 9 decks.
Okay, so I have several Modern decks put together. I am looking to build about four more decks, but I don't know what I want to build. I need some suggestions. Please only suggest decks that are actually good, like having winning finishes in larger tournaments or something similar.
The decks I currently have built are
1. UWR Control
2. Domain Zoo
3. BW tokens
4. Melira Pod
So yeah, suggest away please.
p.s. A link to some kind of list would be awesome.
Moved to "What Deck Should I Play" thread
-ktkenshinx-
I love these ninja decks and am thinking about making my own soon.
Has anyone thought about using triton shorestalker or vault skirge?
Shorestalker was discussed on last few pages (spoiler: there was no consensus on whether it is good or bad).
Skirge is IMO just bad. The lifelink isn't terribly relevant (beating down is only a secondary purpose of an enabler) and you won't be able to power him up consistently (which is why Affinity loves him). And you have to pay life to be able to cast him for 1.
Any other advice? I am more looking for other card choices. As I like boros charms, I feel they won't be terribly reliable. Not to mention dropping path is probably, wrong. It is much better to have the removal main deck.
This is the list I am running. I am having some success winning a few local tournaments with it. I am having some trouble with Supreme Verdict. The whole uncounterable thing is really getting me. Any advice on how to deal with this card would be helpful. I have Boros Charms for this match up but I was hoping for something a little better.
I found him not very impressive. He whiffs a lot. In which case he's pay 3 do nothing. If he gets you creatures he's great. But, as many of you may have found out, often, that's not what's going to happen. Against MUs like UWR and Jund where i'm scrounging for board pressure after the first few exchanges i want more creatures. So, my thinking is that a 1x Ranger of Eos would be pretty great to have MD. That's what I'm planning on testing when i have the time. I think it'll be good. 4 mana to search for 6 power worth of creatures will be nice, i think.
I have been testing Ranger of Eos as a 1 of in my deck recently. I have found that when it resolves, I pretty much just win. But against decks with counters I usually side it out, cause...yeah it just gets countered and there are better cards against them. I am pretty sure I am leaving it in my deck, but leaving it at one for sure.
I love this image and thanks for the advice, I will be moving some things around. But I really don't like Flinthoof boars. So I don't know what else to run, I am going to be dropping the knights and adding in 1 last smiter. I don't know what else to put in those two slots, maybe 2 kird apes?
Thanks guys
Yeah, I'd have to see the full list again, but do you have any utility slots yet? Or are you doing hyper aggro and are doing all beaters?
Well to start off here is the full list, before any changes I make..
As for a utility creature slot, I do have Ranger of Eos, as a 1 of. That is mostly for testing a if I get there and kind of a meta choice, there is a lot of people playing path in my meta. I could run 2 Oozes in those slots though. As for how I want the deck to pan out is really just as consistent as I can. Hyper Aggro or not.
I love this image and thanks for the advice, I will be moving some things around. But I really don't like Flinthoof boars. So I don't know what else to run, I am going to be dropping the knights and adding in 1 last smiter. I don't know what else to put in those two slots, maybe 2 kird apes?
A little explanation, I only have access to two Tarmogoyfs right now, the other two I should be getting next month. Also, the sideboard is purely based on my meta.
Eventually I will play Naya Zoo with tarmo but for budget reasons I decided to start with Tarmoless, fetchlandless gruul, as soon as I get my hands on Arid Mesa I will be playing Tarmoless gruul ("budget" gruul can still kick some ass ) with 8 fetches, next step will be Naya Big Zoo-8 fetches no Tarmo but Smiter and Thoctar, and finallly, Naya Zoo 8-10 fetches and Tarmo.
My take is that,in Legacy (wider pool of land toolbox) Knight > Thoctar but in Modern (DRS and Ooze are abundant coupled with smaller land toolbox) Thoctar > Knight
I totally forgot about Woolly Thoctar, it's a good card. I use it in my sideboard. I actually don't run Knight at all in my list. But I also play a smaller Naya Zoo than most.
Vendillion Clique has all the ingredients of awesome for a ninja deck: flash, flying, high power and relevant ETB ability. 3 mana cmc is pushing it a bit, but flash should make it much more bearable. Too bad the price of admission is so extreme - i just don't see myself shelling out $45 per piece for a card in what is still a brew deck.
The transmute idea didn't occur to me, maybe it is worth trying.
As for the 4 cmc enablers - that is just a bit too much mana, especially when the card can't hold a candle next to VC. You can hardcast NotDH for that
Vendillion Clique is well worth the price, as it sees play in a few other decks and can shine very brightly here. In your average ninja deck, you would only want to run 2 or MAYBE 3. Two is a good number as you only want to see one and just reuse that one. Also 3 cmc is not that big of a deal in a deck where you want to be making all your land drops until turn 5 or 6. You want to run atleast 22 mana while 24 is not really pushing it much.
without fetches mono green infect is probably the only competitive thing he can build.
Don't get me wrong you're opinions were well received. I was just saying, you know. But I did talk it over with some of the other people involved in the list and we will be building...
Affinity
Twin
GR tron
Scapeshift
Rock (we are undecided on which build)
and probably a couple other cheaper decks like burn, UR delver and hatebears.
Very concise, thank you for your thoughts. I do have a quick question though. Would you really place UR delver over Bogggles? I have played both decks and Boggles just feels better as a deck.
About the two decks you have said above that are not tier 1, while I agree, obviously. I only have bw tokens cause it was cheap and used none of the cards in my other decks that I didn't have multiples of. Then, Domain Zoo, that is my personal preference of play style. I don't like the affinity deck myself, and Domain Zoo trounces that deck if pioleted correctly. It also doesn't see a lot of splash hate from other decks other than wrath effects which aren't as big of a deal as a lot of people seem to think.
But, on to the real business here, me building decks!
Rock - I will likely have a rock style deck put together more permanently when I can put together my second set of Tarmogoyfs.
Twin - I like the idea of building this. It seems really good, I think this is going to make the list as well.
Affinity - I do need another aggro deck, and the ensoul artifact card is pretty powerful and gives the deck another line of attack that doesn't care about most hate brought in. I am not really sold on this deck though.
RG Tron - This will cost me a bit of money, but not totally out of the question. It does seem pretty strong though and if it is on an up rise, it would be a good deck.
Scapeshift - This deck seems okay too. I trounced it in a recent ptq I was at, with my domain deck. I am sure some of it was luck but being able to win the turn before they go off when on the play helps. Also if they keep an average draw that doesn't have them going off on turn 4 I feel isn't really soon enough.
But These will probably be the decks I end up building. I think I am going to total out at about 9 decks.
The decks I currently have built are
1. UWR Control
2. Domain Zoo
3. BW tokens
4. Melira Pod
So yeah, suggest away please.
p.s. A link to some kind of list would be awesome.
Moved to "What Deck Should I Play" thread
-ktkenshinx-
If Tormented Soul is worth playing in black versions then I don't see why Triton Shorestalker would be any different.
4x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Qasali Pridemage
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Birds of Paradise
Instants
3x Bant Charm
2x Lightning Helix
4x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Bolt
Sorceries
3x Tribal Flames
Enchantments
1x Prismatic Omen
Lands
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Arid Mesa
2x Marsh Flats
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Stomping Ground
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Blood Crypt
1x Temple Garden
1x Godless Shrine
1x Steam Vents
1x Breeding Pool
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Bribery
2x Boros Charm
2x Hindering Light
2x Guttural Response
2x Trickbind
3x Flashfreeze
3x Negate
I have been testing Ranger of Eos as a 1 of in my deck recently. I have found that when it resolves, I pretty much just win. But against decks with counters I usually side it out, cause...yeah it just gets countered and there are better cards against them. I am pretty sure I am leaving it in my deck, but leaving it at one for sure.
Well to start off here is the full list, before any changes I make..
4 Loam Lion
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Goblin Guide
2 Tarmogoyf
3 Loxodon Smiter
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Ranger of Eos
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
4 Boros Charm
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Arid Mesa
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Deglamer
2 Destructive Revelry
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Vines of Vastwood
4 Molten Rain
As for a utility creature slot, I do have Ranger of Eos, as a 1 of. That is mostly for testing a if I get there and kind of a meta choice, there is a lot of people playing path in my meta. I could run 2 Oozes in those slots though. As for how I want the deck to pan out is really just as consistent as I can. Hyper Aggro or not.
I love this image and thanks for the advice, I will be moving some things around. But I really don't like Flinthoof boars. So I don't know what else to run, I am going to be dropping the knights and adding in 1 last smiter. I don't know what else to put in those two slots, maybe 2 kird apes?
4 Loam Lion
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Goblin Guide
2 Tarmogoyf
3 Loxodon Smiter
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Ranger of Eos
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
4 Boros Charm
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Arid Mesa
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Deglamer
2 Destructive Revelry
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Vines of Vastwood
4 Molten Rain
A little explanation, I only have access to two Tarmogoyfs right now, the other two I should be getting next month. Also, the sideboard is purely based on my meta.
I totally forgot about Woolly Thoctar, it's a good card. I use it in my sideboard. I actually don't run Knight at all in my list. But I also play a smaller Naya Zoo than most.
Vendillion Clique is well worth the price, as it sees play in a few other decks and can shine very brightly here. In your average ninja deck, you would only want to run 2 or MAYBE 3. Two is a good number as you only want to see one and just reuse that one. Also 3 cmc is not that big of a deal in a deck where you want to be making all your land drops until turn 5 or 6. You want to run atleast 22 mana while 24 is not really pushing it much.