That's Awesome! I really like it man. Bribery seems good if the matchup is right, so the sideboard makes a lot of sense. How is the burn matchup?
Thanks! I heard of this deck through a friend and just needed to pick up the Shared Fates and Brainspoils to build it
I haven't playtested it against anyone yet. I'm going to a Modern FNM tomorrow though, so I'll post results.
To answer your question, the burn MU depends on your opening hand. If you can Inquisition of Kozilek their T1/T2 creature (or their SB tech if it's post-board) and wipe/counter whatever else they have, it's survivable. I'm heavily considering adding in 2 Dragon's Claw over the 3 Leyline of Sanctitys, which I don't think do enough work. The big problem with SB (and MB) tech is you absolutely cannot give yourself a win condition or crazy advantage over a deck because you're going to be playing that deck for half of the match. No bouncing cards to their owner's hands, no/few advantageous creatures (Simian Spirit Guide is the only one I'd consider if I had room to fit a play set in), nothing that can shut you out of winning with their deck OR anything able to remove enchantments/permanents. I Initially had Engineered Explosives in the SB because it wrecks a number of bad MUs, but with Pentad Prism on board, they could plausibly sunburst EE for 5 and destroy Shared Fate in order to regain control of their draws. It's a sticky situation, but I'm convinced there are perfect SB cards out there for a deck like this.
I noticed that this thread is sort of falling behind. This is odd to me because I haven't seen enough talk about Bring to Light and how it's Polymorph 5-8. I've seen plenty of builds like this at my LGS, so I figured I'd come spread the word. I'm heavily considering building the deck I'm posting below, but it would include a swift, pricy purchase (I have most of it and have a proxied version that I've been play testing).
No SB yet because I'm just going to steal my opponents' ideas whenever I buy the main deck. Anyway, I've decided to throw caution into the wind, and will rely solely on Blinkmoth Nexus, Inkmoth Nexus and the occasional Swan Song for all of my Polymorph/Bring to Light needs. I've (reluctantly) thrown in two Tolaria Wests because I despise dead hands (hence the Swan Songs [for countering your own Pact of Negations when in a bind or generally saving your hide/cards from whatever your opponent is trying to kill you with]). I'm on the fence over whether Peer Through Depths is better than my current Explores. Maybe run more control? Inquisition of Kozilek could seal games in my favor with Mana Confluence/City of Brass on board...
I'd like to pepper my recent attempt to revive this discussion with the note that I'm planning on playing this after a thing that may OR MAY NOT be announced in April that would greatly affect the meta (and the deck I'm currently playing/loving). I can really see Polymorph taking off in a post-twin meta with the help of Bring to Light. I think that Pentad Prism is key in helping the converge happen for a consistent t3/t4 kill. T1 and T2 are all about the set up, T3 is for the fast kill and T4 is for the slow kill.
Give me your thoughts!
I'm bumping my list! I've updated it and added some more chitterchatter and/or jibberjabber! Here's what I've added:
Zoetic Cavern! I originally forgot to add it and put Inkmoth Nexus in instead! Whoops! It's a little better than other manlands because you don't need to activate it to destroy it with Polymorph! It's more susceptible to removal though :-\
I'm considering Utopia Sprawl over Explore. It seems a lot harder to pull off with my mana base, but my only alternatives cost 2 and 3 mana. I could MAYBE pull off a Desperate Ritual in Explore's place. Thoughts?
I'm also considering running 3-4 Quickens. I like getting the jump and could be willing to wait for 5-6 mana to do it.
Ideas about finding room for 4 Chalice of the Void in the SB? It's a house if you were to swap out Serum Visions, the only 1 cmc spell in my list, for match ups where x=1 stops their deck? Infect, Affinity (sort of), Ad Nauseam, Burn, Lantern Control, Living End (x=0 makes Living End uncastable I think[?]), whatever's left of G/r tron, and a few others all bite the dust with Chalice of the Void on 1.
I really like the Esper build for this deck because it opens us up to all of the disruption. All of it. Plus, with Esper, I don't have to buy any Damnations! Woo!
SB tech tho: Bribery is a house if you can pull it off against tron/polymorph or any deck running big fat fatties.
Is there possibility for some good staples to reprinted/printed in EM or Consp.?
I don't think so. Mill neither makes enough fuss for it to be relevant as a reprint target nor is it competitive enough to occupy 1% of the meta. The only expensive mill card we play is Glimpse the Unthinkable and they had a multiple opportunities to reprint it (RTR, MM, etc..) but they didn't.
I get what you're saying, but it's a lackluster effect by comparison when it can only happen on ETB versus Eldrazi Displacer's repeatable effect WHICH CAN BE USED ON YOUR OPPONENT'S CREATURES TO PREVENT THEM FROM BLOCKING OR ATTACKING. I don't feel like I got that point across in my previous reply. For example, Eldrazi Displacer can stop you from dying to Emrakul, the AEons Torn for the rest of the game whereas Restoration Angel can't. Same would go for infect or affinity with a Vault Skirge and a Cranial Plating.
I don't think you're really going to surprise anyone playing mono white and leaving 4 mana untapped with cards in hand.
I don't really see the comparison. Restoration Angel can't target your opponent's creatures and only happens when she enters the battlefield. Eldrazi Displacer can be used on any creature and repeatedly.
Thoughts on Eldrazi Displacer in a soul sister list running Ajani's Pridemate/Archangel of Thune? I'm eyeballing it over 3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos for control over would be blockers as well as protection from removal. I've played with Eldrazi Displacer and it is a house when you need to save a Serra Ascendant as well as tapping down a potential blocker from the field before combat. For reference, I've recently shed my 3 Ghost Quarters for this week and will be playing with 4 Radiant Fountains and 4 Cavern of Souls. I'm not very worried about tron like I used to be and 8 colorless sources should hopefully be enough.
I could use some thoughts on this build! I'm skeptical about Crimson Wisps, but it could pull the rug out from under my opponent if I have the 3 mana to go off. Adversely, it serves as a cantrip when I don't need it for its effect. Scout's Warning is similar in that respect and can be cast on your opponent's end step, except I'd need to run one Hallowed Fountain to fetch for, and even then, it's sort of janky in an already janky deck. I'll stick with Crimson Wisps for now. I actually ended up taking Refocus out for Crimson Wisps, which was the card that started this whole thing.
As usual, I need SB advice, but feel free to include MD advice/suggestions. Thanks!
While looking for something else, I noticed Refocus was printed in Fate Reforged. IIRC, if I start with 2 open mana and an untapped Blistercoil Weird with a Paradise Mantle on it, I can tap the weird for a mana, cast Refocus, untap Blistercoil Weird for casting an instant, tap it back down to make a mana, and then untap it for the effect of Refocus? Is it also possible to do with Cerulean Wisps? Correct me if I'm wrong!
AFAIK, both untapping go to stack, 1st the blistercoil then the refocus/celurean. After that, refocus/celuream resolves and you untap blister. At this point you can generate mana from mantle tapping blister cuz it won't go to stack (I think). In the end, blister untap resolves making him available again.
It's the same essential question between Cerulean Wisps and Refocus, except Refocus doesn't net you a mana. It's still free to cantrip through the deck, which is what Weird Paradise does.
Tap Weird, cast Refocus, untap Weird, tap Weird in response to targeting Weird with Refocus, untap Weird, draw a card. That's how it would play out, right? It's the same general idea with Cerulean Wisps except you get an extra mana with Cerulean Wisps because it costs 1 to cast.
While looking for something else, I noticed Refocus was printed in Fate Reforged. IIRC, if I start with 2 open mana and an untapped Blistercoil Weird with a Paradise Mantle on it, I can tap the weird for a mana, cast Refocus, untap Blistercoil Weird for casting an instant, tap it back down to make a mana, and then untap it for the effect of Refocus? Correct me if I'm wrong! You don't gain a mana like you do with Cerulean Wisps, but it's a 'free' spell! I've updated my sweaty old list to include Refocus:
The SB is still under construction, but let's dredge this dusty old coot off now that Twin and Eldrazi are out of the picture! I wonder if Ancestral Vision has a place in the deck?
You were thinking of Glittering Wish?
Splinter Twin, and whatever else you can jam in there. On the note of Polymorph/Emrakul, the AEons Torn, Emrakul's GY trigger will rebuff your deck so that it can win.I don't think you need so much creature removal and would instead focus on counterspells.
Thanks! I heard of this deck through a friend and just needed to pick up the Shared Fates and Brainspoils to build it
I haven't playtested it against anyone yet. I'm going to a Modern FNM tomorrow though, so I'll post results.
To answer your question, the burn MU depends on your opening hand. If you can Inquisition of Kozilek their T1/T2 creature (or their SB tech if it's post-board) and wipe/counter whatever else they have, it's survivable. I'm heavily considering adding in 2 Dragon's Claw over the 3 Leyline of Sanctitys, which I don't think do enough work. The big problem with SB (and MB) tech is you absolutely cannot give yourself a win condition or crazy advantage over a deck because you're going to be playing that deck for half of the match. No bouncing cards to their owner's hands, no/few advantageous creatures (Simian Spirit Guide is the only one I'd consider if I had room to fit a play set in), nothing that can shut you out of winning with their deck OR anything able to remove enchantments/permanents. I Initially had Engineered Explosives in the SB because it wrecks a number of bad MUs, but with Pentad Prism on board, they could plausibly sunburst EE for 5 and destroy Shared Fate in order to regain control of their draws. It's a sticky situation, but I'm convinced there are perfect SB cards out there for a deck like this.
P.S.: Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is/should be surprisingly good against burn if you can land Shared Fate and still have access to her. It's like a crappy Æther Vial.
4 Serum Visions
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Brainspoil
3 Supreme Verdict
4 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
3 Spell Pierce
4 Pentad Prism
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Watery Grave
3 Hallowed Fountain
2 Godless Shrine
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Bribery
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Torpor Orb
3 Stony Silence
2 Spellskite
3 Leyline of Sanctity
I'm bumping my list! I've updated it and added some more chitterchatter and/or jibberjabber! Here's what I've added:
Zoetic Cavern! I originally forgot to add it and put Inkmoth Nexus in instead! Whoops! It's a little better than other manlands because you don't need to activate it to destroy it with Polymorph! It's more susceptible to removal though :-\
Mana Leak! It's better than the possibility of losing the game to a Pact of Negation! Swan Song is good, but not enough without Pact of Negation. I'll miss it.
Peer Through Depths! I don't need 4 Sleight of Hands! ..Do I?
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth! Tolaria West at two is stinky and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth saves us from Mana Confluence (but not City of Brass)! It also dumps a color into Bring to Light! Tolaria West becomes more useful now since Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is an easy way out of a number of life-threatening OR careful planning situations (like being stuck with a Bring to Light and not enough access to colors)! I've adjusted my mana base accordingly!
I'm considering Utopia Sprawl over Explore. It seems a lot harder to pull off with my mana base, but my only alternatives cost 2 and 3 mana. I could MAYBE pull off a Desperate Ritual in Explore's place. Thoughts?
I'm also considering running 3-4 Quickens. I like getting the jump and could be willing to wait for 5-6 mana to do it.
Here's my new list:
4 Serum Visions
3 Explore
3 Bring to Light
4 Pentad Prism
3 Lotus Bloom
4 Manamorphose
4 Remand
3 Mana Leak
2 Peer Through Depths
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Breeding Pool
4 Mana Confluence
3 Zoetic Cavern
3 City of Brass
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Tolaria West
1 Island
1 Forest
3 Beast Within
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Pyroclasm
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Timely Reinforcements
Ideas about finding room for 4 Chalice of the Void in the SB? It's a house if you were to swap out Serum Visions, the only 1 cmc spell in my list, for match ups where x=1 stops their deck? Infect, Affinity (sort of), Ad Nauseam, Burn, Lantern Control, Living End (x=0 makes Living End uncastable I think[?]), whatever's left of G/r tron, and a few others all bite the dust with Chalice of the Void on 1.
I realized I could build this deck from the cards I already own! Here's my take on this hilarious deck:
4 Serum Visions
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Brainspoil
3 Supreme Verdict
4 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
3 Spell Pierce
4 Pentad Prism
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Watery Grave
3 Hallowed Fountain
2 Godless Shrine
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Bribery
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Suppression Field
3 Stony Silence
2 Spellskite
3 Leyline of Sanctity
I really like the Esper build for this deck because it opens us up to all of the disruption. All of it. Plus, with Esper, I don't have to buy any Damnations! Woo!
SB tech tho: Bribery is a house if you can pull it off against tron/polymorph or any deck running big fat fatties.
IMO A good mill deck would include Damnations, Liliana of the Veils, and Fulminator Mages
I don't think you're really going to surprise anyone playing mono white and leaving 4 mana untapped with cards in hand.
3 soul warden
3 soul's attendant
2 auriok champion
2 martyr of sands
4 ajani's pridemate
4 ranger of eos
3 eldrazi displacer
2 archangel of thune
3 spectral procession
2 return to the ranks
2 honor of the pure
4 cavern of souls
3 radiant fountain
1 windbrisk heights
4 flagstones of trokair
10 plains
3 leyline of sanctity
1 fracturing gust
2 celestial purge
3 stony silence
2 rest in peace
2 pithing needle
2 ghostly prison
I took out 2 Martyr of Sands because Eldrazi Displacer breaks the consistency. I think Auriok Champion can do work in her place. Still considering putting a singleton Elspeth, Knight-Errant back in. She's saved me nearly every time I've needed it in the past, but I think I'd put in a third Archangel of Thune if I owned one.
I'll be playing this list tonight!
Procure Glimpse the Unthinkable, Archive Trap, Hedron Crab, and Breaking // Entering for starters. I'm a little upset that Origins or SOI didn't include any worthwhile mill options. So much potential with delirium and spell mastery :<
Thoughts on Eldrazi Displacer in a soul sister list running Ajani's Pridemate/Archangel of Thune? I'm eyeballing it over 3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos for control over would be blockers as well as protection from removal. I've played with Eldrazi Displacer and it is a house when you need to save a Serra Ascendant as well as tapping down a potential blocker from the field before combat. For reference, I've recently shed my 3 Ghost Quarters for this week and will be playing with 4 Radiant Fountains and 4 Cavern of Souls. I'm not very worried about tron like I used to be and 8 colorless sources should hopefully be enough.
I've edited my initial list and updated my SB to include some primo post-board choices:
4 Paradise Mantle
4 Manamorphose
4 Cerulean Wisps
4 Visions of Beyond
4 Thought Scour
1 Retraction Helix
2 Disrupting Shoal
1 Crimson Wisps
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Grapeshot
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
4 Steam Vents
2 Island
3 Apostle's Blessing
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Disrupting Shoal
1 Retraction Helix
2 Elixir of Immortality
2 Pyroclasm
I could use some thoughts on this build! I'm skeptical about Crimson Wisps, but it could pull the rug out from under my opponent if I have the 3 mana to go off. Adversely, it serves as a cantrip when I don't need it for its effect. Scout's Warning is similar in that respect and can be cast on your opponent's end step, except I'd need to run one Hallowed Fountain to fetch for, and even then, it's sort of janky in an already janky deck. I'll stick with Crimson Wisps for now. I actually ended up taking Refocus out for Crimson Wisps, which was the card that started this whole thing.
As usual, I need SB advice, but feel free to include MD advice/suggestions. Thanks!
It's the same essential question between Cerulean Wisps and Refocus, except Refocus doesn't net you a mana. It's still free to cantrip through the deck, which is what Weird Paradise does.
Tap Weird, cast Refocus, untap Weird, tap Weird in response to targeting Weird with Refocus, untap Weird, draw a card. That's how it would play out, right? It's the same general idea with Cerulean Wisps except you get an extra mana with Cerulean Wisps because it costs 1 to cast.
While looking for something else, I noticed Refocus was printed in Fate Reforged. IIRC, if I start with 2 open mana and an untapped Blistercoil Weird with a Paradise Mantle on it, I can tap the weird for a mana, cast Refocus, untap Blistercoil Weird for casting an instant, tap it back down to make a mana, and then untap it for the effect of Refocus? Correct me if I'm wrong! You don't gain a mana like you do with Cerulean Wisps, but it's a 'free' spell! I've updated my sweaty old list to include Refocus:
4 Paradise Mantle
4 Manamorphose
4 Cerulean Wisps
4 Visions of Beyond
4 Thought Scour
3 Quicken
3 Refocus
3 Faithless Looting
3 Sleight of Hand
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Grapeshot
4 Flooded Strand
4 Steam Vents
1 Island
1 Mountain
4 Apostle's Blessing
4 Mizzium Skin
4 Disrupting Shoal
3 Pithing Needle
The SB is still under construction, but let's dredge this dusty old coot off now that Twin and Eldrazi are out of the picture! I wonder if Ancestral Vision has a place in the deck?
Since the printing of all of these Eldrazi, I see Matter Reshaper and Thought-Knot Seer as two synergistic dudes. Maybe a more mid-range approach is in order? All is Dust is still a thing and Eldrazi Temple benefits both that and the critters (Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger included). The biggest issue I have is parting with Pyroclasm. I suppose Firespout can substitute, but I'll miss it so!
I'll drum up a list and post it later.