It does crazy amounts of damage through goldfishing, usually more than 15 damage on turn 4 or 5. Played against Esper control, it was fast enough to beat it. It does lead to some awkward draws though like if you're stuck with Experiment One, Mystics and only pump spells.
The Wayfinders will probably be the first to go, sure they're a creature and they dredge but they don't do much else. Besides, dredging for a land sometimes is the last thing you want... They're usually the first thing I side out. At least Salvage and Commune have some flexibility. Whiffing on one of these during a match is borderline unacceptable when you're looking for something specific.
Golgari Charm is amazing, especially against Boros Burn; I will probably up it to 3 at least. I guess the only thing Drown in Filth is good for is that it deals with indestructible gods, but in general you can keep the devotion in check through their other permanents.
Shadowborn Demon should probably be at least a 2-of, I reckon it's the general consensus on this. I've just been lazy in acquiring a second.
I'm also really curious about testing Nylea and Gift of Orzhova, at least both are fetchable with our enablers. I think I can squeeze a singleton Deadbridge Chant in there too.
If you cut the wayfinders you may need to bump up the land count to 22 or 23. And if you want to have a more enchantment based deck you may want to try out Pharika's Mender for recursion.
This is my list that I took to FNM, I went 3-2 and got 9th place.
Round 1: 2-0 BR Minotaurs
It was piloted by a newbie, didn't feel so good taking the candy from a baby
Round 2: 2-0 Jund Burn
Game one I didn't see much of his deck because he got manascrewed, but the second game he was able to use Xenagos, Fanatic of Mogis and Chandra's Phoenix but short one mana from Stormbreath before I was able to send the finishing blow in the air with Shadowborn.
Round 3: 1-2 Boros Burn
Burn again! This time it was a more refined deck with much more burn and less creatures. Chained to the Rocks did a lot of work and he managed to get great hands full of burn on two of the games. The one game where I won it was all thanks to the Whip, would have lost if it wasn't for that lifelink.
Round 4: 1-2 UW Control
This was a buddy of mine and we playtest often so I knew his deck inside and out, but it's still not that great of a match up. This is where I sideboarded in the Sire of Insanity and it won me the second game, but I wasn't able to get it out in time for the third one and he overwhelmed me with Angel of Thunes
Round 5: 2-0 UWb Heroic
Probably one of the best matchups because of golgari charm. Charm hits all the enchantments and the deck has a surprising amount of x/1s too.
Ran this through a DE tonight, went 1-3 drop mostly because of my inexperience with the deck *and* the format... Hadn't played Theros standard yet.
Here are some of my observations... Would love to hear what you guys think.
1) I'd gladly run Hero's Downfall over Drown in Filth, even if only in the side. Drown is way too erratic and it's a sorcery. In a deck with 19 lands it looks underwhelming and I've found myself wishing it was a Downfall whenever I peeled one. There is already enough dredging, combine that with opposing early removal and you see what I'm getting at.
2) Chump blocking us into oblivion is a big hassle. Even with a Blood Baron on the other side it's a huge ordeal and the game slowly slips away. Bow of Nylea and Gift of Orzhova would probably help... Although I'm liking Golgari Decoy (mostly for the surprise factor)
3) How do you deal with diluting the creature count post-SB but keeping Commune / Salvage in the main? Do you guys ever cut any? Whenever I side in Thoughtseizes I'm at a loss and whiffing with the dredgers makes me just want to pick up my cards, hide in a corner and cry myself to sleep. Commune in particular, while at the core of this deck, generates some awkward situations when you're short on mana.
4) The mulliganing... It hurts so bad. Blame it on the shuffler but I mulliganed in at least once in half of the games I played. If you consider that right now Standard is Thoughtseize country, this has to stop happening.
5) Have you guys ever actually had enough mana to cast Jarad *and* activate him, or manage to untap with him? In 10 games I haven't managed to do that once.
6) Turn 2 Pack Rat... What's the plan? I'm honestly thinking about siding in Pithing Needle, it comes in handy against PWs as well, much like the aforementioned Downfall.
7) I wouldn't underestimate Nemesis, sure it's a big dumb beater but that's actually the point. It's a great topdeck and can turn a game around in no time much like most of the good threats. It also deals with a lot of pro-black creatures, first and foremost Blood Baron.
Comments?
What is your list? I'm interested because you mention things like Drown in Filth and Golgari Decoy, which are both not what I usually see in this thread.
1) I don't run drowns because I want to keep my land count low so I have more creatures in the deck. The only maindeck removal is Shadowborn Demon, sideboard however is where you can keep the other removals. I agree that Downfall is just way better.
2) Some people use Nylea to give everything trample, others use Herald of Torment to bestow flying. Both of which are creatures so it counts towards our dredge.
3) Against the slower decks I usually don't mind diluting the creature count, in fact I almost always side out the llanowar elves against control. Other decks, I side out one commune and salvage each.
4) Eh, it happens. Usually though, when they thoughtseize you it should be a good thing though.
5) Yes, it's how I win most of my games actually.
Red splash is.... interesting. In a good way. Ghor-Clan alone is a great reason to run it, and Flesh // Blood basically acts as Jarad without the creature + mana investment, leading to more "outta nowhere" kills.
Does it help our bad matchups, though? (UW Control, Monoblack, Monsters sometimes) And what about needing to run so many scrylands in order to support the splash in a consistent manner? We'd be talking about a noticably slower version of the deck than what we're used to.
It's definitely worth looking into, though. I'm gonna gather the pieces and get back to you all.
Plus it will allow us to use Sire of Insanity sideboard to improve our match up against Control. I also think that using the Caryatid as well as the Manaweft Sliver may let us go without the scrylands, but I'd have to test that out though.
Forgive me if this has already been discussed but why not splash red for Flesh/Blood and Ghor-Clan Rampager? I've won so many games I've had absolutely no business winning because of those two cards.
No one is telling you not to. Roguedeckbuilder made top 8 with a jund version at a ptq so it definitely is a powerful deck.
On the play, Wayfinder, on the draw, Caryatid. That is what I would do so I would be in equal footing in terms of mana as my opponent. If we have a Nemesis in hand I'd play commune and try to hit a whip so we can turn 3 Nemesis and then turn 4 whip.
*** BACKGROUND ***
I wrote about a similar deck not too long ago on pureMTGO.
And while looking at it, I thought to myself hey I could make this under 10 dollars for shinbatsu's thread! So I changed a couple things around, took out the sideboard for price reasons, as well as some of the spells in the deck and of course Aetherling. The deck is still pretty much the same. It's a flash deck where almost every spell is an instant so you will be playing mostly on you're opponent's turn. And once they're out of resources you can land a chimera to finish the game.
I go into more detail about how the deck would look like when less of a budget is taken into an account, but two of the biggest additions here would be Aetherling and more Anger of the Gods as both would help you win the game faster. Some minor changes like Cancel into Dissolve and Inspiration into Quicken but overall it is still a fun deck to play and a pretty strong one at that.
Chimera in a control deck? I must be crazy, right? But actually it's not all that bad. As a control deck we'll be playing a lot of spells and because we're izzet we'll be discarding a lot of them through our charm and Augury. The deck isn't perfect yet though, the disperse should be cyclonic rift, the Thespian's Stage is my version of Mutavault so that's anotehr replacement. And I'm thinking about replacing the sphinx with Jaces but those sphinxes has won me games so I'm not sure. I welcome any suggestions.
Love the idea and if I get back into standard soon this is pretty much the deck I plan to make. Can anyone post a brief summary of how it does against the common decks in the field with estimated/tested percentages?
Can't speak for all versions of this deck but from my experiences these are the matchups:
Red Aggro: 50/50 pretty easy to control the board but because they're red and have access to burn it's never a definite win, my deck is slow enough that they can have time to topdeck into some burn. If they're on the play it's much harder but it's not impossible to win.
NonRed Aggro: A much easier time then the above. Once you get rid of everything and they're in topdeck mode, it's only a matter of time before winning.
Naya Control: Not actually that bad of a matchup, a lot of their removal is dead to them because we don't have a lot of creatures. Assemble the Legion and Xenagos is how they can win so I pack in Pithing Needle for the walker and Disperse which should actually be a Cyclonic Rift for the enchantment.
UWx control: My least favorite matchup only because it's so boring. Both sides have dead cards. And if you want to win you should be prepared to counter their counters and maybe cast Aetherling with 3 open blue.
Couldn't you say the all-foil decks (slivers, goblins, elves) are 'promo'?
Squadron Hawk is kind of bad as a singleton. So is Spellstutter sprite. And Surgical Extraction and cloudpost.
Snuff Out and a number of other cards were only in booster packs or duel decks. If you're counting duel decks there's a lot of cards you could add in, including a lot of fixing.
You're missing old-face promos including sword of fire and ice, dark confident and muscle sliver.
I've had a promo cube for ~5 years now. The guidelines I follow are:
1. No duplicates
2. A "promo" has to be a card that cannot be opened in a regular pack of cards
3. Every promo makes the cut weather it's good/bad etc doesn't matter
4. All of the pre made decks vs decks etc would be too many cards, so I only allow foiled cards from the special pre made releases
It's hard to try and keep up with the rate that Wizards prints promos. I try and get as many as I can as soon as I can. Usually when I trade, I ask to see any promo cards someone might have. I prioritize quantity of unique promos over quality. The more rare promos get expensive and it is rare that I am able to add $100 + promos. I usually add 2-3 of the expenve ones a year.
Obviously this cube continues to grow larger and larger. Currently I have it in a "1000" count white box sleeved and it needs to find a larger box.
Everyone has their own rules. I allow duplicates and only really like promos with alternate art so I don't ever actually want the ones with different frames. I'm also not adding in judge foils because of the rarity and pricing of it all. And unfortunately I don't have the physical cube yet, but I'm working towards getting all of it.
Red Deck Wins is a well known archetype and it's usually the best deck to start out with during rotation because of it's cheapness as well as it's effectiveness as an aggro deck. And this standard season is no different and I present to you the deck below.
This version plays much like the RDWs at the start of RTR standard. It hits quick and it hits hard. It can easily end the game with a burn spell if your opponent isn't careful. And with the inclusion of Magma Jet, top decking isn't going to feel so bad because you can ensure what you're going to draw into.
Why are you playing Thassa? She won't be a creature and the unblockable ability isn't very useful. Is the upkeep scry 1 really that powerful to warrant the inclusion over more answers?
Also I forgot to mention something about Swan Song. For standard, the card is a trap. Your list has nothing to deal effectively with a 2/2 token without spending another card. That is two-for-one-ing yourself. Just play Negate, a spell that counters all of those things and planeswalkers while not giving them a free Wind Drake.
Yes Thassa's scry 1 is that powerful. And it synergizes really well with the new chandra so her 0 is actually card draw instead of self mill.
As for swan song I agree that it's a trap in the usual draw-go control decks but it's the perfect counterspell in tap out control because of it's low cost. It doesn't really matter that you need another card because you're going to play Anger of the Gods and Ratchet Bomb anyways. At the very least you can just utilize Ral Zarek and Izzet Staticaster since they're just 2/2s
4 Dryad Militant
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Kalonian Tusker
2 Boon Satyr
4 Wild Beastmaster
4 Experiment One
3 Reverent Hunter
4 Slaughterhorn
4 Aspect of Hydra
3 Ranger's Guile
Lands:
20 Forest
It does crazy amounts of damage through goldfishing, usually more than 15 damage on turn 4 or 5. Played against Esper control, it was fast enough to beat it. It does lead to some awkward draws though like if you're stuck with Experiment One, Mystics and only pump spells.
I'm still having trouble with what to put in the sideboard, I know I'll want Mistcutter Hydra and Glaring Spotlight and I'm thinking about Nylea's Disciple but not sure yet.
If you cut the wayfinders you may need to bump up the land count to 22 or 23. And if you want to have a more enchantment based deck you may want to try out Pharika's Mender for recursion.
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Nemesis of Mortals
4 Nighthowler
3 Shadowborn Demon
2 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
4 Grisly Salvage
4 Commune with the Gods
3 Whip of Erebos
2 Golgari Charm
Lands:
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Golgari Guildgate
6 Swamp
6 Forest
3 Duress
2 Golgari Charm
1 Vraska the Unseen
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Sire of Insanity
2 Putrefy
2 Pithing Needle
1 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
This is my list that I took to FNM, I went 3-2 and got 9th place.
Round 1: 2-0 BR Minotaurs
It was piloted by a newbie, didn't feel so good taking the candy from a baby
Round 2: 2-0 Jund Burn
Game one I didn't see much of his deck because he got manascrewed, but the second game he was able to use Xenagos, Fanatic of Mogis and Chandra's Phoenix but short one mana from Stormbreath before I was able to send the finishing blow in the air with Shadowborn.
Round 3: 1-2 Boros Burn
Burn again! This time it was a more refined deck with much more burn and less creatures. Chained to the Rocks did a lot of work and he managed to get great hands full of burn on two of the games. The one game where I won it was all thanks to the Whip, would have lost if it wasn't for that lifelink.
Round 4: 1-2 UW Control
This was a buddy of mine and we playtest often so I knew his deck inside and out, but it's still not that great of a match up. This is where I sideboarded in the Sire of Insanity and it won me the second game, but I wasn't able to get it out in time for the third one and he overwhelmed me with Angel of Thunes
Round 5: 2-0 UWb Heroic
Probably one of the best matchups because of golgari charm. Charm hits all the enchantments and the deck has a surprising amount of x/1s too.
What is your list? I'm interested because you mention things like Drown in Filth and Golgari Decoy, which are both not what I usually see in this thread.
1) I don't run drowns because I want to keep my land count low so I have more creatures in the deck. The only maindeck removal is Shadowborn Demon, sideboard however is where you can keep the other removals. I agree that Downfall is just way better.
2) Some people use Nylea to give everything trample, others use Herald of Torment to bestow flying. Both of which are creatures so it counts towards our dredge.
3) Against the slower decks I usually don't mind diluting the creature count, in fact I almost always side out the llanowar elves against control. Other decks, I side out one commune and salvage each.
4) Eh, it happens. Usually though, when they thoughtseize you it should be a good thing though.
5) Yes, it's how I win most of my games actually.
Plus it will allow us to use Sire of Insanity sideboard to improve our match up against Control. I also think that using the Caryatid as well as the Manaweft Sliver may let us go without the scrylands, but I'd have to test that out though.
No one is telling you not to. Roguedeckbuilder made top 8 with a jund version at a ptq so it definitely is a powerful deck.
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
4 Nemesis of Mortals
1 Shadowborn Demon
2 Desecration Demon
4 Nighthowler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Lifebane Zombie
3 Flesh/Blood
4 Grisly Salvage
Lands (23)
3 Blood Crypt
2 Swamp
4 Temple of Malice
3 Forest
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of Abandon
On the play, Wayfinder, on the draw, Caryatid. That is what I would do so I would be in equal footing in terms of mana as my opponent. If we have a Nemesis in hand I'd play commune and try to hit a whip so we can turn 3 Nemesis and then turn 4 whip.
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Nighthowler
4 Nemesis of Mortals
3 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
2 Shadowborn Demon
1 Rot-farm Skeleton
4 Grisly Salvage
4 Commune With the Gods
4 Golgari Charm
Lands:
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Golgari Guildgate
6 Forest
6 Swamp
2 Pithing Needle
4 Duress
1 Shadowborn Demon
1 Golgari Guildgate
1 Putrefy
3 Drown in Filth
1 Vraska the Unseen
2 Mistcutter Hydra
Round 1: Bye
Round 2: Bant Prophet 2-1
Round 3: RG Monsters 2-1
Round 4: Mono Black 2-1
Round 5: UW Heroic Split.
I wrote about a similar deck not too long ago on pureMTGO.
And while looking at it, I thought to myself hey I could make this under 10 dollars for shinbatsu's thread! So I changed a couple things around, took out the sideboard for price reasons, as well as some of the spells in the deck and of course Aetherling. The deck is still pretty much the same. It's a flash deck where almost every spell is an instant so you will be playing mostly on you're opponent's turn. And once they're out of resources you can land a chimera to finish the game.
I go into more detail about how the deck would look like when less of a budget is taken into an account, but two of the biggest additions here would be Aetherling and more Anger of the Gods as both would help you win the game faster. Some minor changes like Cancel into Dissolve and Inspiration into Quicken but overall it is still a fun deck to play and a pretty strong one at that.
Izzet Flash / Chimera Control
TIMESTAMP: 11/26/2013
10 Island
4 Izzet Guildgate
10 Mountain
2 Thespian's Stage
CREATURES - 6
2 Prognostic Sphinx
4 Spellheart Chimera
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Cancel
1 Dispel
4 Inspiration
3 Izzet Charm
3 Lightning Strike
3 Magma Jet
2 Opportunity
2 Syncopate
3 Thoughtflare
4 Turn // Burn
CURVE (0-1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6+): 0 / 6 / 8 / 0 / 2 / 2
AVERAGE CMC: 1.7
TYPE: BDC10 ($10.00 LIMIT)
CURRENT COST: 9.93
REMAINING BUDGET: 0.07
DECK LINK: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1172961
1 Aetherling
2 Prognostic Sphinx
3 Spellheart Chimera
Spells (28):
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Dissolve
2 Syncopate
3 Steam Augury
2 Thoughtflare
2 Opportunity
3 Magma Jet
3 Izzet Charm
3 Quicken
1 Dispel
2 Turn/Burn
4 Steam Vents
4 Izzet Guildgate
1 Thespian's Stage
9 Mountain
8 Island
2 Disperse
3 Lightning Strike
1 Swan Song
1 Dispel
2 Pithing Needle
1 Burning Earth
2 Negate
2 Essence Scatter
1 Anger of the Gods
Chimera in a control deck? I must be crazy, right? But actually it's not all that bad. As a control deck we'll be playing a lot of spells and because we're izzet we'll be discarding a lot of them through our charm and Augury. The deck isn't perfect yet though, the disperse should be cyclonic rift, the Thespian's Stage is my version of Mutavault so that's anotehr replacement. And I'm thinking about replacing the sphinx with Jaces but those sphinxes has won me games so I'm not sure. I welcome any suggestions.
Can't speak for all versions of this deck but from my experiences these are the matchups:
Red Aggro: 50/50 pretty easy to control the board but because they're red and have access to burn it's never a definite win, my deck is slow enough that they can have time to topdeck into some burn. If they're on the play it's much harder but it's not impossible to win.
NonRed Aggro: A much easier time then the above. Once you get rid of everything and they're in topdeck mode, it's only a matter of time before winning.
Naya Control: Not actually that bad of a matchup, a lot of their removal is dead to them because we don't have a lot of creatures. Assemble the Legion and Xenagos is how they can win so I pack in Pithing Needle for the walker and Disperse which should actually be a Cyclonic Rift for the enchantment.
UWx control: My least favorite matchup only because it's so boring. Both sides have dead cards. And if you want to win you should be prepared to counter their counters and maybe cast Aetherling with 3 open blue.
Everyone has their own rules. I allow duplicates and only really like promos with alternate art so I don't ever actually want the ones with different frames. I'm also not adding in judge foils because of the rarity and pricing of it all. And unfortunately I don't have the physical cube yet, but I'm working towards getting all of it.
Red Deck Wins is a well known archetype and it's usually the best deck to start out with during rotation because of it's cheapness as well as it's effectiveness as an aggro deck. And this standard season is no different and I present to you the deck below.
This version plays much like the RDWs at the start of RTR standard. It hits quick and it hits hard. It can easily end the game with a burn spell if your opponent isn't careful. And with the inclusion of Magma Jet, top decking isn't going to feel so bad because you can ensure what you're going to draw into.
Dirt Cheap Dirty RDW
TIMESTAMP: 9/24/2013
20 Mountain
CREATURES - 27
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
3 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Firefist Striker
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Gore-House Chainwalker
4 Minotaur Skullcleaver
4 Rakdos Cackler
2 Dynacharge
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Weapon Surge
CURVE (0-1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6+): 13 / 20 / 4 / 3 / 0 / 0
AVERAGE CMC: 1.28
TYPE: BDC10 ($10.00 LIMIT)
CURRENT COST: $8.90
REMAINING BUDGET: $1.10
Yes Thassa's scry 1 is that powerful. And it synergizes really well with the new chandra so her 0 is actually card draw instead of self mill.
As for swan song I agree that it's a trap in the usual draw-go control decks but it's the perfect counterspell in tap out control because of it's low cost. It doesn't really matter that you need another card because you're going to play Anger of the Gods and Ratchet Bomb anyways. At the very least you can just utilize Ral Zarek and Izzet Staticaster since they're just 2/2s
4 Omenspeaker
3 Thassa, God of the Sea
2 Prognastic Sphinx
1 Aetherling
Spells:
2 Syncopate
4 Magma Jet
1 Opportunity
3 Steam Augury
4 Swan Song
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Turn/Burn
3 Ratchet Bomb
Planeswalkers:
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Ral Zarek
Lands:
4 Steam Vents
4 Izzet Guildgate
8 Island
8 Mountain