Ajani's Pridemate
I have tested this card in here, and it seems to be inconsistent a lot of the time. The only life gain in this deck is from the 7 soul sisters. It does not have the support that the monowhite deck has, therefore, I feel that Dark Confidant could easily take its place. In other norin builds that I have seen; he is only a 3 of. Champion of the Parish although slightly slower does the same role in here with all of the humans and etb triggers off norin.
Grim Lavamancer
He originally was not in the deck, however, after testing I found him being great when tutored with Ranger of Eos. He isn't the greatest early game. I could see myself taking him out if he becomes inefficient.
Ghitu Encampment
This terrible manland is in here to help fight against control decks. There were games where I was playing against UWR control and they would burn/removal/counter all of my creatures. This MAY help push through a couple damage inbetween dead draws. I was thinking of using the BR Manland from Worldwake, but 3 mana activation for a 2/2 seems really overcosted. This only is a 2/1 first strike. If it does not test well, I'll probablly take it out.
Blood Moon
I worked on my mana base for quite a while after referring to a Channelfireball article to "perfect" my mana so I will not be having a hard time casting things on my turns. My deck does not have any double coloured mana symbols in the entire deck. If I side in the 4 "bloodmoon effects" I will often side out bob to help with not getting screwed. After all I have 8 fetchlands that can search for any 3 of my basic plains. With the moon out, obviously, I would have a hard time playing red spells. lol Blood Moon-effects win games on their own. not to mention uncounterable ones with cavern of souls.
Proclamation of Rebirth
This is not part of the big picture, it is in the board to simply bring back my electrolyzed/ bolted creatures later game to apply the lack of pressure against control decks.
Burrenton Forge-Tender
She has saved my but quite a few times. Affinity Whipflare, Tron Pyroclasms, random bolts, not to mention that she is a perfect blocker and can be searched and returned with Proclamation of Rebirth.
I have done decently thus far at my LGS, the two times I went with this deck, I have placed top 4 both times.
Please also note - The ONLY black card in this deck is the 3 dark confidant, which has 14 black mana sources to cast him on turn two.
We don't care about Auras much, and it's not overcosted, just 2x Idyllic Tutor in one. Could be very useful for setting up combos or locks.
What sorts of enchantments would you be searching for on turn 6? Seems pretty awful. There are not many good enchantments in modern, all the good ones seem to be in the form of auras.
Maybe I'm way off base here, but I don't think Enchantress has what it takes to be good. Unless you go the Aura-root:
Spreading Seas
Sea's Claim
Kor Spirit Dancer
Utopia Sprawl
I have taken notice in the Norin the Wary in last few months and have been fiddling with a human-focused theme with a soul sister's shell. I posted in the other thread in the Deck Creation section, but didn't get much critique.
After some testing online and bringing in the deck to my LGS I ended up with this list:
Originally I had more black in the deck with a 4th Bob and 3 Lingering Souls. However, I decided to go back to the Genesis Chamber plan as it seems to have a lot of synergy in here. I cut back a Dark Confidant due to the life loss, and the fact that I think I prefer a more balanced curve with additional draws from Mentor the Meek, which in some cases just go to town.
I went all in with the human sub-theme to take full advantage of cavern of souls and champion of the parish. I found that Ajani's Pridemage, although can get HUGE, he seems to be a liability for the deck. Not to mention that Dark Confidant is just a better 2 drop, not to mention that he is indeed a human creature.
A.J.Gibson:
Consistency is increased with the 3 Ranger of Eos, and the 3 bob and 2 mentors. The only consistancy issues I had earlier was that I would draw Ajani's pridemage and no soul sisters and the kitty would just sit there as a 2/2 bear.The other was not having enough land on turns 4 and 5, however. I added a couple more.
As for control/removal; this is probably our hardest matchup, outside of combo along side counter back-up. I tried to combat this weekness with the blood moon effect in the board, as well as 2 proclamation of rebirth. Ranger also helps as he brings 2 bodies, which helps restock your hand. I also found that Burrenton Forge-Tender helps a lot from the board. It helps protect against bolts, pyroclasms, whipflares and other annoying red perments. Not to mention it could block red creatures for days. Although not a human, she is tutorable with ranger of eos.
Frowny:
I haven't had any problems with playing him on turn 2, believe it or not. It can happen, but it's rare as I DO HAVE 14 "black sources", which is 1 more than the recommended amount. Not to mention he boosts champion when he enters the battlefield.
I was sceptical on the soul sisters myself a while back, but now I see how great they can be. If you're playing against an aggro deck, they just cannot keep up with the etb triggers off the soul sisters, making their aggro efforts dampened. I'm not sure what I could replace them with that would equally as good or better that fits in the 1 CC slot. Suggestions? Being a human would be nice too!
Originally I had more black in the deck with a 4th Bob and 3 Lingering Souls. However, I decided to go back to the Genesis Chamber plan as it seems to have a lot of synergy in here. I cut back a Dark Confidant due to the life loss, and the fact that I think I prefer a more balanced curve with additional draws from Mentor the Meek, which in some cases just go to town.
I went all in with the human sub-theme to take full advantage of cavern of souls and champion of the parish. I found that Ajani's Pridemage, although can get HUGE, he seems to be a liability for the deck. Not to mention that Dark Confidant is just a better 2 drop, not to mention that he is indeed a human creature.
Doesn't make a difference. All the fetches can fetch whatever colour you need. I'd recommend splitting them as evenly as possible to make it easier to play other decks, and dodge surgical extraction as much as possible.
Okay, thanks. How many would you play? I have seen anywhere from 8-12 fetches. What do you guys recommend for this deck?
Furthermore, what kind of split should I do for the Duals? I noticed that some lists run only:
I'm new to this deck in Legacy, however, I have been playing the rock and jund in modern and wanted to port this over to the big leagues. Now, my question is what kind of fetchland split should I go for? I noticed that most people will go:
4x Verdant Catacomb
3x Woodedfoot Hills
3x Blood Stained Mire
or
4x Verdant Catacomb
1x Woodedfoot Hills
4x Bloodstained Mire
Congratulations Freggle on your Starcity coverage. Made an enchantress player proud!
Looking at your decklist, it appears that you changed a couple things before the tournament. I noticed that you cut down on the probes and decided against the manamorphose. I tested it out my self, and felt that it was kind of a blah cards in here. However, i did like the probes.
Hi, ive been playing magic since september last year (2012) and have always wanted to play legacy. I like powerful cards and strong decks. 6 month into the game I dropped like $1,200 on a modern jund deck whilst I was still a nursing student (im 22). So im not exactly price sensisitive lol. Now im a qualified mental health nurse and lookin to move to an area where I will be able to play legacy.
I love modrange decks and I love decks with 'play'. My favourite decks have been Modern jund, standard nephalia esper and the aristocrats from standard.
Comming into legacy I decided on this deck because of the following;
1. I want to play 4x stoneforge mystic after playing her in cube.
2. I want to play 4x swords to plow as its the best removal ever printed and i love removal (im a black mage)
3. Dark confidant is one of my favourite cards in magic
4. Wasteland is brutal
Its a lot like modern jund but substitutes red for powerful white cards. I prefer this too esper aswell because i prefer to be proactive in magic. It also helps that a lot of these cards are in my modern jund deck.
So comments? Is green splash definatly worth it or should i go for just BW? Should i run some number of vindicate? Can i squueze 1-2 zealous persecution? Is Sword of fire and ice the best choice? Is my curve low enough? Why no sinkhole? Is the discard package right? I want to minimise bad top decks but not flat lose to combo.
I should probably point out I dislike the mox plan as I dislike cards that are great turn 1 and get progressivly worse.
Nice deck, although I'm a little confused on the 1x Taiga. Any reason for this? Also, do you guys think the deck may require more Tarmos, or is the couple just enough?
Not to come off as a Troll, but...how does this deck win? I mean, I play enchantress in Legacy, and it barely stands a chance, and you're given the best enchantments, argothian enchantress, 2 growth effects and enchantresses's presences.
This deck just seems awful in modern. 3 mana for a 0/2 which can die to shock isn't near playable. Why play this over Bogle?
This is pretty much the entire mentality I'm trying to correct.
Is emrakul uncounterable? Yes
Does it get you an extra turn? Yes
Is it good in this deck? No.
What people seem to miss is that while yes, enchantress can produce 15 mana, you're still gonna have less than 15 a lot more than you'll have 15. If you want to chain your legendary lands together, fine, its cute, but again - why would you spend 15 mana going for a creature which doesn't actually win to anyone running any non-targeted removal (a brainstormed terminus in your turn, edicts, etc) when you have RIP helm. With Emrakul, you are going to have far more times you can't cast it vs times you can, where helm requires less than half the mana to actually win, leaving you 8 of the 15 to dig to the 2 card combo (which should be in any deck running it as a 3 helm 4 RIP split if you want to use it).
and as to Sigil not being good... it was THE goto win con for the deck from the day it was printed... you're telling me that it got that status without a good reason?
Even without running Emrakul (which I would highly advise avoiding), has won me countless games, in which I would have no other way of winning. Emrakul is an uncounterable monster that msot decks cannot deal with otherwise.
Just yesterday Emrakul saved the day when they popped down a platinum angel. At this point, they were in a hard lock since I had Sphere of Safety down along side 10+ enchantments. I was getting close to decking myself, when I finally drew him. I decided to mill out his entire deck using Helm/RIP combo to prevent him from drawing anything else. However it wasn't enough until I shat out the "Fattie" with a sanctum and took another turn and attacked. He managed to keep his angel alive, and was able to chump block. But then, my trusty karakas just bounced it back to my hand for another lashing of timewalks, inhalator and 15 damage.
Sigil, although is a decent win condition is not always a game winner. A smart player will hold their counters back and wait for your win condition to be played then countered. Where as Emrakul is a guaranteed win if the board is stale. Obviously, Emrakul isn't the first effort to close a game, but it does the job with the Helm cannot.
EDIT:
Drifting Skies - I also noticed the popularity of Gogari Charm as of late as well. It really does threaten the entire deck;furthermore, it often accompanied by 3-4 Abrupt Decays which make an enchantress player cry. The Solution? I'm not entirely sure, perhaps Karmic Guide or an increased number of Sterling Groves? What do you guys think? Personally, I feel that Enchantress almost always scoops to a BGx deck, as they also tend to play some Hymn to Torarch
Yes, I dumped Blood Moon as well (wasn't winning often enough), and I also dumped Ranger and Purphoros for Dark Confidant and +3 Legion Loyalist. Nothing in my deck costs more than 2 mana. I played a game recently where I was stuck at one land the entire game and I still won turn 4. I'll post my deck list when I get the chance. Been thinking of trying Viscera Seeker or Blood Artist.
I'm not sure if that's the direction the deck should be going, it doesn't really synergize all that well with the rest of the deck. Currently, I'm running 2x Rangers and 3x Purphoros. I feel that these quantities are needed inorder to close out slower games.
How has Legion Loyalist been working for you? Personally, I will only use it as a Ranger target, but even then, I often just go for a Champion of the Parish and a Norin.
I have tested this card in here, and it seems to be inconsistent a lot of the time. The only life gain in this deck is from the 7 soul sisters. It does not have the support that the monowhite deck has, therefore, I feel that Dark Confidant could easily take its place. In other norin builds that I have seen; he is only a 3 of. Champion of the Parish although slightly slower does the same role in here with all of the humans and etb triggers off norin.
Grim Lavamancer
He originally was not in the deck, however, after testing I found him being great when tutored with Ranger of Eos. He isn't the greatest early game. I could see myself taking him out if he becomes inefficient.
Ghitu Encampment
This terrible manland is in here to help fight against control decks. There were games where I was playing against UWR control and they would burn/removal/counter all of my creatures. This MAY help push through a couple damage inbetween dead draws. I was thinking of using the BR Manland from Worldwake, but 3 mana activation for a 2/2 seems really overcosted. This only is a 2/1 first strike. If it does not test well, I'll probablly take it out.
Blood Moon
I worked on my mana base for quite a while after referring to a Channelfireball article to "perfect" my mana so I will not be having a hard time casting things on my turns. My deck does not have any double coloured mana symbols in the entire deck. If I side in the 4 "bloodmoon effects" I will often side out bob to help with not getting screwed. After all I have 8 fetchlands that can search for any 3 of my basic plains. With the moon out, obviously, I would have a hard time playing red spells. lol Blood Moon-effects win games on their own. not to mention uncounterable ones with cavern of souls.
Proclamation of Rebirth
This is not part of the big picture, it is in the board to simply bring back my electrolyzed/ bolted creatures later game to apply the lack of pressure against control decks.
Burrenton Forge-Tender
She has saved my but quite a few times. Affinity Whipflare, Tron Pyroclasms, random bolts, not to mention that she is a perfect blocker and can be searched and returned with Proclamation of Rebirth.
I have done decently thus far at my LGS, the two times I went with this deck, I have placed top 4 both times.
Please also note - The ONLY black card in this deck is the 3 dark confidant, which has 14 black mana sources to cast him on turn two.
I used this article for my manabase:
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/frank-analysis-how-many-colored-mana-sources-do-you-need-to-consistently-cast-your-spells/
What sorts of enchantments would you be searching for on turn 6? Seems pretty awful. There are not many good enchantments in modern, all the good ones seem to be in the form of auras.
Maybe I'm way off base here, but I don't think Enchantress has what it takes to be good. Unless you go the Aura-root:
Spreading Seas
Sea's Claim
Kor Spirit Dancer
Utopia Sprawl
I have taken notice in the Norin the Wary in last few months and have been fiddling with a human-focused theme with a soul sister's shell. I posted in the other thread in the Deck Creation section, but didn't get much critique.
After some testing online and bringing in the deck to my LGS I ended up with this list:
Lands (23):
Creature Spells (27): (24 Human & 3 Non-Human)
Non-Creature Spells (10):
Sideboard (15):
Originally I had more black in the deck with a 4th Bob and 3 Lingering Souls. However, I decided to go back to the Genesis Chamber plan as it seems to have a lot of synergy in here. I cut back a Dark Confidant due to the life loss, and the fact that I think I prefer a more balanced curve with additional draws from Mentor the Meek, which in some cases just go to town.
I went all in with the human sub-theme to take full advantage of cavern of souls and champion of the parish. I found that Ajani's Pridemage, although can get HUGE, he seems to be a liability for the deck. Not to mention that Dark Confidant is just a better 2 drop, not to mention that he is indeed a human creature.
Thoughts, comments, or questions?
Consistency is increased with the 3 Ranger of Eos, and the 3 bob and 2 mentors. The only consistancy issues I had earlier was that I would draw Ajani's pridemage and no soul sisters and the kitty would just sit there as a 2/2 bear.The other was not having enough land on turns 4 and 5, however. I added a couple more.
As for control/removal; this is probably our hardest matchup, outside of combo along side counter back-up. I tried to combat this weekness with the blood moon effect in the board, as well as 2 proclamation of rebirth. Ranger also helps as he brings 2 bodies, which helps restock your hand. I also found that Burrenton Forge-Tender helps a lot from the board. It helps protect against bolts, pyroclasms, whipflares and other annoying red perments. Not to mention it could block red creatures for days. Although not a human, she is tutorable with ranger of eos.
Frowny:
I haven't had any problems with playing him on turn 2, believe it or not. It can happen, but it's rare as I DO HAVE 14 "black sources", which is 1 more than the recommended amount. Not to mention he boosts champion when he enters the battlefield.
I was sceptical on the soul sisters myself a while back, but now I see how great they can be. If you're playing against an aggro deck, they just cannot keep up with the etb triggers off the soul sisters, making their aggro efforts dampened. I'm not sure what I could replace them with that would equally as good or better that fits in the 1 CC slot. Suggestions? Being a human would be nice too!
Lands (23):
Creature Spells (27): (24 Human & 3 Non-Human)
Non-Creature Spells (10):
Sideboard (15):
Originally I had more black in the deck with a 4th Bob and 3 Lingering Souls. However, I decided to go back to the Genesis Chamber plan as it seems to have a lot of synergy in here. I cut back a Dark Confidant due to the life loss, and the fact that I think I prefer a more balanced curve with additional draws from Mentor the Meek, which in some cases just go to town.
I went all in with the human sub-theme to take full advantage of cavern of souls and champion of the parish. I found that Ajani's Pridemage, although can get HUGE, he seems to be a liability for the deck. Not to mention that Dark Confidant is just a better 2 drop, not to mention that he is indeed a human creature.
Thoughts, comments, or questions?
Okay, thanks. How many would you play? I have seen anywhere from 8-12 fetches. What do you guys recommend for this deck?
Furthermore, what kind of split should I do for the Duals? I noticed that some lists run only:
2x bayou
2x badlands
or
2x bayou
3x badlands
Is the third badlands necessary?
I'm new to this deck in Legacy, however, I have been playing the rock and jund in modern and wanted to port this over to the big leagues. Now, my question is what kind of fetchland split should I go for? I noticed that most people will go:
4x Verdant Catacomb
3x Woodedfoot Hills
3x Blood Stained Mire
or
4x Verdant Catacomb
1x Woodedfoot Hills
4x Bloodstained Mire
What do you guys suggest?
Looking at your decklist, it appears that you changed a couple things before the tournament. I noticed that you cut down on the probes and decided against the manamorphose. I tested it out my self, and felt that it was kind of a blah cards in here. However, i did like the probes.
How does one judge a meta before entering it?
Modern's counterparts do similar things just at a much slower rate. (ghostly prison, fertile ground,shrine of nyxos, etc)
Thoughts?
Nice deck, although I'm a little confused on the 1x Taiga. Any reason for this? Also, do you guys think the deck may require more Tarmos, or is the couple just enough?
This deck just seems awful in modern. 3 mana for a 0/2 which can die to shock isn't near playable. Why play this over Bogle?
Even without running Emrakul (which I would highly advise avoiding), has won me countless games, in which I would have no other way of winning. Emrakul is an uncounterable monster that msot decks cannot deal with otherwise.
Just yesterday Emrakul saved the day when they popped down a platinum angel. At this point, they were in a hard lock since I had Sphere of Safety down along side 10+ enchantments. I was getting close to decking myself, when I finally drew him. I decided to mill out his entire deck using Helm/RIP combo to prevent him from drawing anything else. However it wasn't enough until I shat out the "Fattie" with a sanctum and took another turn and attacked. He managed to keep his angel alive, and was able to chump block. But then, my trusty karakas just bounced it back to my hand for another lashing of timewalks, inhalator and 15 damage.
Sigil, although is a decent win condition is not always a game winner. A smart player will hold their counters back and wait for your win condition to be played then countered. Where as Emrakul is a guaranteed win if the board is stale. Obviously, Emrakul isn't the first effort to close a game, but it does the job with the Helm cannot.
EDIT:
Drifting Skies - I also noticed the popularity of Gogari Charm as of late as well. It really does threaten the entire deck;furthermore, it often accompanied by 3-4 Abrupt Decays which make an enchantress player cry. The Solution? I'm not entirely sure, perhaps Karmic Guide or an increased number of Sterling Groves? What do you guys think? Personally, I feel that Enchantress almost always scoops to a BGx deck, as they also tend to play some Hymn to Torarch
I'm not sure if that's the direction the deck should be going, it doesn't really synergize all that well with the rest of the deck. Currently, I'm running 2x Rangers and 3x Purphoros. I feel that these quantities are needed inorder to close out slower games.
How has Legion Loyalist been working for you? Personally, I will only use it as a Ranger target, but even then, I often just go for a Champion of the Parish and a Norin.
Let me know how it goes,
Olga