I actually think that the "Something New" that MaRo mentioned is wedge colors.
It's something that many of us have wanted for years, and it's never been done. The colors that are in the promo shots are all Dega (red/white/black) colors and, while far from definitive, colors in the art are important in magic.
So everyone has to adhere to your version of fun? Um no. Fun is subjective and combo is just as relevant as any other strategy in magic, including land destruction and good counter spells(which happen to be answers to combo). Instead, standard has been turned into turn dudes sideways or play overcosted counters and removal until i can turn a dude sideways. whoopty doo
Maybe, um, maybe you should stop playing, then. And just play solitaire on your computer.
Because that is literally what playing combo is.
Yes, some combo lists (High Tide in Legacy, formerly Eggs and Storm in Modern, and the Time Sieve deck in Alara) do act as solitaire in the way that they are not interactive, but you're using those decks as a blanket description for all combo decks. Combo decks cover things from Thopter-Depths, which was degenerate, yes, but was also interactive, to the assortment of Twin decks which are plenty interactive and are just strong, not degenerate. Many of these decks are even fun to play with and against (except High Tide and Sneak and Show, imo).
Many people, myself included, liked the extra layer of play that combo decks used to provide. And many of this group like the admittedly masturbatory solitaire decks out there. These decks allow for a style of play that is not available in other games.
All I ask is to open up a little to the idea so that you can at least see why many of us are upset that combo decks in standard have seemingly been replaced by midrange decks and synergistic decks (and, no, I don't count Junk Reanimator from last year as a combo deck, just a very synergistic one) thus leaving us to think it's all about putting dudes into the red zone.
That demon is unplayable. I'd even worry about his drawback in limited. Even Treacherous Pit-Dweller is better.
How is Treacherous Pit-Dweller better? In a vacuum, yes, I would agree, as netting the opponent +1 card a turn is awful, but there are more in this standard ways to work with/around its drawback than there were with Pit-Dweller a couple years ago.
I'm not trying to dispute you, by the way, I'm just trying to follow your thought process.
Dweller had Torpor Orb and grave hate like DRS, vile rebirth, etc. This guy has Spirit of the Labyrinth and Notion Thief, both of which are fragile x/1s and commit you to extra colors.
And only Notion Thief at that given the draw effect is on the controller's upkeep. Yeah, I guess there were more ways around the drawback. Though it is worth noting that the Demon does curve perfectly into Notion Thief on turn 4, but I'm not sure if that's enough to save it.
Not sure if this is right, but I think you need both 7 red and 7 white so if you have 5 red and 7 white he is still a enchantment... not sure if I am reading it right, but it is a very interesting card that I can see being played in lots of RW decks that can out race most decks.
Nope, just a total of 7 red or white, not 7 of each.
That demon is unplayable. I'd even worry about his drawback in limited. Even Treacherous Pit-Dweller is better.
How is Treacherous Pit-Dweller better? In a vacuum, yes, I would agree, as netting the opponent +1 card a turn is awful, but there are more in this standard ways to work with/around its drawback than there were with Pit-Dweller a couple years ago.
I'm not trying to dispute you, by the way, I'm just trying to follow your thought process.
I'm still not convinced how good it will be overall, but Waste Not should at least be okay against Pack Rat if nothing else. I guess I can start wishing for (and never getting) a reprint of Hymn.
On paper, at least, it looks really good. It's not one of those "lose life" discard enchantments. This one could lead to ramp, cards drawn, and tokens- card advantage and making up for the tempo loss of casting it. It's an interesting card. I'll probably preorder a playset ASAP just in case. I don't think we'll ever see Hymn in Standard ever again lol.
The main issue I have keeping from embracing it is that it acts like a punisher card much of the time. Except in cases of targeted and random discard, your opponent gets to decide what they discard, and, therefore, what benefit you get get. I just hope it's good enough to get over that bump and still be good anyway.
With some of the other methods listed like Blue Sun's Zenith and Compulsive Research, you don't really want to give your opponent the advantage those can provide.
I guess I will remain doubtful yet hopeful until I can play with it and see both my results and the results of others.
And, yeah, I agree about Hymn, unfortunately.
I'm still not convinced how good it will be overall, but Waste Not should at least be okay against Pack Rat if nothing else. I guess I can start wishing for (and never getting) a reprint of Hymn.
I find myself cringing at the incredibly talented individuals behind the art of this set, and how many of those cards are just horribad.
Wow. How did I forget to mention the awesome art in the block thus far? It is indeed a shame that much of it will be seen little after it stops getting drafted.
And inspire seems potentially neat, but without further experience, I can't really say. Hopefully its a deceptive mechanic.
The fact that people are even comparing BNG to Homelands, Saviors, and the Dark, should show us how bland and unexciting this set MAY be.
Now, I'll acknowledge that we just got the last 50-60 cards, but after going through and looking at them all together, I'm underwhelmed.
For me, this isn't necessarily due to power level, but from a bland feel that takes over the set. The enchantment creature type seems tacked on and untapped as far a design potential. Same goes with the Gods and, well, the enchantments in general. Bestow just doesn't cut it. Nothing interesting has been done with it thus far. Tribute is...I'm not sure why that's a highlighted mechanic. Seems odd. Finally, Monstrous was inexplicably cut, and Devotion, while having a couple decent cards, doesn't seem supported beyond the already used hybrid cards from last year.
I guess I'm just sitting here wondering what exactly happened with a set that seemed like it could be awesome.
Says in the article that you get one "seeded" pack from Born of the Gods as well. This is like the guild packs from last year, or the mono color packs from the fall.
I've only played around with this deck on a more casual basis due to a rather small legacy scene in my town, so take this as you want.
Lately, I've been trying a variant that plays Young Pyromancer and a slightly larger pool of instants/sorceries, however, I can't shake the feeling that this is a trap. Has anyone tried him in their lists? If so what did you think?
Okay so I, as well as many of you it seems, have been thinking of some RDW variant since the beginning of spoilers. This is what I've come up with as far as an all-in red deck goes:
First off, I'll apologize if this sort of deck has been posted on this thread before. I must admit I haven't read it all the way through, just bits and pieces.
The idea of the deck is that of a typical all-in aggro/sligh red deck. I went with this because I assume that the format will become rather slow, at least once it settles down. New standard formats are also usually extremely aggro-heavy at first, so I could see this as a possible early contender. Staying power will be another issue to address entirely.
I am currently thinking that 12 1-drops would be too many with the abundance of good non-creature spells that would work in the deck, so I went with 10. This is of course due to change with Legion Loyalist being another good option, though Denizen has proven itself thus far.
The BTE package is rather obvious at this point since it allows for some ridiculous starts, and I felt that Firefist Striker in addition to the 7 2-drop instants and the 3 Madcap Skills would allow for some nice options that all encompass what red wants to be doing in this type of deck: pushing through quick damage.
I wanted a couple solid 3-drops to help have a proper curve. For this I chose what may be arguably the best in the coming format, Boros Reckoner. He helps double duty by allowing us to attack into bigger guys with minimal worry, as well as pushing through a bigger devotion (which I'll get to in a moment). I also chose Chandra's Phoenix, a card that I have liked for a while. I feel that it's possible recursion would allow for some reach later game, as well a a good hasty 2-points. The bird is the weaker of the 2 cards in my opinion. Right now I'm at 3 of each because I'm not yet sure which is truly stronger in this deck. (Note: BTE into Reckoner is a real, and definitely crappy, situation to be in since it doesn't work. I have had this in the back of my mind, but it comes up so rarely in testing that I'm okay with the risk in order to have 2 such great cards.)
Finally, I wanted a strong 4-drop that can help close out games. For this I think that Fanatic of Mogis fits the bill well. You may be saying that the card relies on you already having a board position in order to do any significant damage to the face due to devotion. I would argue that this is a low curve red aggro deck; if you aren't investing guys to the bored every turn, you're likely doing it wrong. I also have supported him with BTE, Reckoner, and, to a lesser degree, the Phoenix, all of which are solid creatures in their own right. This makes it so that the Fanatic is able to push in the last few points of damage, or at least a hefty chunk as long as the board hasn't been wiped (in which you're likely dead anyway) and you started with a decent hand. This is, admittedly, the card I see having to sell the most, especially ont he heals of two years of great 4 cmc red creatures (Hero of Oxid Ridge and Hellrider) that he doesn't quite hold a candle to.
As for non-creature spells, I'm not settled entirely yet. I really like the draw fixing thatMagma Jet provides, and Searing Spear in a shoe in. For the last slot I was considering shock, but I changed my mind when I remembered Madcap Skills. I feel this card definitely has potential in a deck like this, especially on turn 2 after an Emissary onto your turn one creature. This is up for contention, however.
As for lands, there's the red classic, Mountain, and Mutavault, which is filling double duty, as cards in a sligh deck should.
All of the above is purely theory (since the meta has yet to have any sort of form yet and real testing isn't possible yet) from an old red player, and can, and likely will, change. Also of note, I did not discuss a sideboard yet, since I have no idea what I will be siding in against as of yet. In the mean time, happy brewing.
No one(at least from what I have skimmed) has seemed to guess them bringing back Totem armor. It makes the most since, imo, of a mechanic to bring back in a set supposed to be filled with legendarys and enchantments...
Thing is Totem Armor can only be used on Auras, which will likely appear in the block, maybe even abundantly, I somehow doubt will be the used mechanic since I believe they stated that the returning mechanic was one that many have been clamoring for for quite some time.
I also believe that it was said that the Azorious mechanic initially dealt with enchantments and that it was pushed to the block after RTR. If that's the case I don't think they would have two mechanics that dealt specifically with enchantments even if they "matter." Further, if legendaries do indeed turn out to be a subtheme, which seems likely given the setting and evidence cards we know a bit about as of now (the "gods" and the hydra from the dual deck), there will likely be a mechanic revolving around them ie-Grandeur.
I think the frequently requested mechanics that are more generic mechanics like cycling, landfall, convoke, level cards, scry, threshhold, etc. are more likely to be used. I'm not saying any of these will be used, only giving examples of more setting neutral mechanics.
Just leave that to a mod. No need to backseat mod for something that only adds a little temporary disorganization. I can't see rules mongering from a us normal folk (read non-mods) being helpful to anyone, plus it tends to leach the fun from speculative threads.
I assume the OP is just trying to start a speculation thread about what the hydra does based on the card's rarity, name (which is an important factor when you take into account that Theros, like Innistrad, is designed top-down), and whatever other traits were included on the partial card spoiler from Comic-Con. He could have, however, actually stated the purpose of what he was getting at before his design idea.
That said, I personally think that the propsed design idea, while decently fitting flavor wise, is likely a bit too strong since it's efficient repeated removal of many permanent types in G, which is far from common. I could see it as an ETB Acidic Slime-like ability or maybe, with the phrase "World Eater" in the name, something that chews only on lands, but more efficiently than slime.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
Edit - Features included on Comic-Con spoiler that are relevant are: Legendary Creature - Hydra and 4cmc, 2GG.
It's something that many of us have wanted for years, and it's never been done. The colors that are in the promo shots are all Dega (red/white/black) colors and, while far from definitive, colors in the art are important in magic.
Edit: Here is the image I was referring to.
Yes, some combo lists (High Tide in Legacy, formerly Eggs and Storm in Modern, and the Time Sieve deck in Alara) do act as solitaire in the way that they are not interactive, but you're using those decks as a blanket description for all combo decks. Combo decks cover things from Thopter-Depths, which was degenerate, yes, but was also interactive, to the assortment of Twin decks which are plenty interactive and are just strong, not degenerate. Many of these decks are even fun to play with and against (except High Tide and Sneak and Show, imo).
Many people, myself included, liked the extra layer of play that combo decks used to provide. And many of this group like the admittedly masturbatory solitaire decks out there. These decks allow for a style of play that is not available in other games.
All I ask is to open up a little to the idea so that you can at least see why many of us are upset that combo decks in standard have seemingly been replaced by midrange decks and synergistic decks (and, no, I don't count Junk Reanimator from last year as a combo deck, just a very synergistic one) thus leaving us to think it's all about putting dudes into the red zone.
And only Notion Thief at that given the draw effect is on the controller's upkeep. Yeah, I guess there were more ways around the drawback. Though it is worth noting that the Demon does curve perfectly into Notion Thief on turn 4, but I'm not sure if that's enough to save it.
Nope, just a total of 7 red or white, not 7 of each.
How is Treacherous Pit-Dweller better? In a vacuum, yes, I would agree, as netting the opponent +1 card a turn is awful, but there are more in this standard ways to work with/around its drawback than there were with Pit-Dweller a couple years ago.
I'm not trying to dispute you, by the way, I'm just trying to follow your thought process.
The main issue I have keeping from embracing it is that it acts like a punisher card much of the time. Except in cases of targeted and random discard, your opponent gets to decide what they discard, and, therefore, what benefit you get get. I just hope it's good enough to get over that bump and still be good anyway.
With some of the other methods listed like Blue Sun's Zenith and Compulsive Research, you don't really want to give your opponent the advantage those can provide.
I guess I will remain doubtful yet hopeful until I can play with it and see both my results and the results of others.
And, yeah, I agree about Hymn, unfortunately.
Wow. How did I forget to mention the awesome art in the block thus far? It is indeed a shame that much of it will be seen little after it stops getting drafted.
And inspire seems potentially neat, but without further experience, I can't really say. Hopefully its a deceptive mechanic.
Now, I'll acknowledge that we just got the last 50-60 cards, but after going through and looking at them all together, I'm underwhelmed.
For me, this isn't necessarily due to power level, but from a bland feel that takes over the set. The enchantment creature type seems tacked on and untapped as far a design potential. Same goes with the Gods and, well, the enchantments in general. Bestow just doesn't cut it. Nothing interesting has been done with it thus far. Tribute is...I'm not sure why that's a highlighted mechanic. Seems odd. Finally, Monstrous was inexplicably cut, and Devotion, while having a couple decent cards, doesn't seem supported beyond the already used hybrid cards from last year.
I guess I'm just sitting here wondering what exactly happened with a set that seemed like it could be awesome.
Lately, I've been trying a variant that plays Young Pyromancer and a slightly larger pool of instants/sorceries, however, I can't shake the feeling that this is a trap. Has anyone tried him in their lists? If so what did you think?
4 Rakdos Cackler
3 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Firefist Striker
3 Boros Reckoner
3 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Magma Jet
3 Madcap Skills
3 Lightning Strike
Lands
19 Mountain
3 Mutavault
First off, I'll apologize if this sort of deck has been posted on this thread before. I must admit I haven't read it all the way through, just bits and pieces.
The idea of the deck is that of a typical all-in aggro/sligh red deck. I went with this because I assume that the format will become rather slow, at least once it settles down. New standard formats are also usually extremely aggro-heavy at first, so I could see this as a possible early contender. Staying power will be another issue to address entirely.
I am currently thinking that 12 1-drops would be too many with the abundance of good non-creature spells that would work in the deck, so I went with 10. This is of course due to change with Legion Loyalist being another good option, though Denizen has proven itself thus far.
The BTE package is rather obvious at this point since it allows for some ridiculous starts, and I felt that Firefist Striker in addition to the 7 2-drop instants and the 3 Madcap Skills would allow for some nice options that all encompass what red wants to be doing in this type of deck: pushing through quick damage.
I wanted a couple solid 3-drops to help have a proper curve. For this I chose what may be arguably the best in the coming format, Boros Reckoner. He helps double duty by allowing us to attack into bigger guys with minimal worry, as well as pushing through a bigger devotion (which I'll get to in a moment). I also chose Chandra's Phoenix, a card that I have liked for a while. I feel that it's possible recursion would allow for some reach later game, as well a a good hasty 2-points. The bird is the weaker of the 2 cards in my opinion. Right now I'm at 3 of each because I'm not yet sure which is truly stronger in this deck. (Note: BTE into Reckoner is a real, and definitely crappy, situation to be in since it doesn't work. I have had this in the back of my mind, but it comes up so rarely in testing that I'm okay with the risk in order to have 2 such great cards.)
Finally, I wanted a strong 4-drop that can help close out games. For this I think that Fanatic of Mogis fits the bill well. You may be saying that the card relies on you already having a board position in order to do any significant damage to the face due to devotion. I would argue that this is a low curve red aggro deck; if you aren't investing guys to the bored every turn, you're likely doing it wrong. I also have supported him with BTE, Reckoner, and, to a lesser degree, the Phoenix, all of which are solid creatures in their own right. This makes it so that the Fanatic is able to push in the last few points of damage, or at least a hefty chunk as long as the board hasn't been wiped (in which you're likely dead anyway) and you started with a decent hand. This is, admittedly, the card I see having to sell the most, especially ont he heals of two years of great 4 cmc red creatures (Hero of Oxid Ridge and Hellrider) that he doesn't quite hold a candle to.
As for non-creature spells, I'm not settled entirely yet. I really like the draw fixing thatMagma Jet provides, and Searing Spear in a shoe in. For the last slot I was considering shock, but I changed my mind when I remembered Madcap Skills. I feel this card definitely has potential in a deck like this, especially on turn 2 after an Emissary onto your turn one creature. This is up for contention, however.
As for lands, there's the red classic, Mountain, and Mutavault, which is filling double duty, as cards in a sligh deck should.
All of the above is purely theory (since the meta has yet to have any sort of form yet and real testing isn't possible yet) from an old red player, and can, and likely will, change. Also of note, I did not discuss a sideboard yet, since I have no idea what I will be siding in against as of yet. In the mean time, happy brewing.
Thing is Totem Armor can only be used on Auras, which will likely appear in the block, maybe even abundantly, I somehow doubt will be the used mechanic since I believe they stated that the returning mechanic was one that many have been clamoring for for quite some time.
I also believe that it was said that the Azorious mechanic initially dealt with enchantments and that it was pushed to the block after RTR. If that's the case I don't think they would have two mechanics that dealt specifically with enchantments even if they "matter." Further, if legendaries do indeed turn out to be a subtheme, which seems likely given the setting and evidence cards we know a bit about as of now (the "gods" and the hydra from the dual deck), there will likely be a mechanic revolving around them ie-Grandeur.
I think the frequently requested mechanics that are more generic mechanics like cycling, landfall, convoke, level cards, scry, threshhold, etc. are more likely to be used. I'm not saying any of these will be used, only giving examples of more setting neutral mechanics.
Just leave that to a mod. No need to backseat mod for something that only adds a little temporary disorganization. I can't see rules mongering from a us normal folk (read non-mods) being helpful to anyone, plus it tends to leach the fun from speculative threads.
I assume the OP is just trying to start a speculation thread about what the hydra does based on the card's rarity, name (which is an important factor when you take into account that Theros, like Innistrad, is designed top-down), and whatever other traits were included on the partial card spoiler from Comic-Con. He could have, however, actually stated the purpose of what he was getting at before his design idea.
That said, I personally think that the propsed design idea, while decently fitting flavor wise, is likely a bit too strong since it's efficient repeated removal of many permanent types in G, which is far from common. I could see it as an ETB Acidic Slime-like ability or maybe, with the phrase "World Eater" in the name, something that chews only on lands, but more efficiently than slime.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
Edit - Features included on Comic-Con spoiler that are relevant are: Legendary Creature - Hydra and 4cmc, 2GG.