I bealive you do not undestand me... Doesn't it better to deal Emrakul/Kozilek on turn 2 or 5 and having much better sustain in HP, while you have to deal with it via mindreaker trap when it comes?
I guess if the strategy you are using to try to beat Tron is answering their big spells when they try to cast them, using Seek might make sense. The strategy I was thinking of using to beat Tron is to disrupt their mana with land destruction spells and Stony Silence and try to race before they have the mana to cast Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Notion Thief seems like a great idea against blue Tron though. I'd have to try it out. Overall, I haven't played against Tron with this deck much. Has your strategy been working out well for you?
Also stealing slaughter games against Grixis to take his cryptic commands/counterfluxes is preety huge advantage, don't you think so?
As for Karn, if you steal him at turn 4, you just start ruin tron.
Same for Ajani agasint UWR-control. IF you can protect him from bolts this is win. Am I wrong?
I do agree that if you manage to steal Karn Liberated with Commandeer on turn 4 you've pretty much won the game. I'm just not sure with a deck in which only 1/3 of the cards are blue you can count on having 2 other blue cards in hand to pitch to Commandeer when Karn Liberated is about to come down. Slaughter Games against a Grixis deck when they happen to have Cryptic Command or Counterflux in hand is great, but i feel that often you will name a card and simply miss with it. I just don't think losing a card to take cards from their library that they might draw is very effective.
I am genuinely interested in your card choices for your deck. How well have you done with your deck in tournaments?
Guys, what do you think about using 1 commandeer in SB. Yeah, it is huge card disadvantage, but when I show it to RG tron for karn it makes me instant-win, so as I show it to grixis control for slaughter game, wich preety much make my game easy. Also Hide // seek is very powerfull in mirror matches and GR Tron too. I bealive it is much better then mindreaker trap.
I've thought of Commandeer but I feel that you can't count on having the two blue cards available at the moment you need it. It's more realistic to just hold up mana to Negate a Karn Liberated. Also, against tron it doesn't answer anything besides Karn Liberated. Tron has a variety of threats that demand answers and they might not even draw a Karn Liberated during a game, in which case Commandeer will be a dead card. The card disadvantage of Commandeer is generally not as bad as it looks, you pay 3 cards for you to gain a card and for your opponent to lose a card, so it's a 3 for 2 and with a tempo gain.
As for Slaughter Games, I wouldn't care too much about it. You don't need any particular card in your deck to win so if someone were to Slaughter Games me I would rejoice in that they wasted a card to do almost nothing. Same argument goes for Seek.
Does anyone have any info on the article that Patrick Chapin wrote??
Patrick Chapin basically mentioned that while he liked the list that Paul Cheon brewed up by using UWR as a starting point, he thought that Grixis would be better as it's own type of deck rather than a derivative of UWR. Patrick decided to create a different deck based on raw card advantage rather than the precision afforded by Mystical Teachings. At the time of the article he hadn't tested the deck yet, but he backed up his card choices with his reasoning quite well.
I am definitely considering cutting Restoration Angel and when there is enough control in my local meta to justify Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir I will put it in. I did find myself wanting three copies of Mystical Teachings at times but I can't really think of anything to cut for it. I also used to run Mindbreak Trap in the sideboard but there isn't room for it right now.
It definitely seems like Esper Teachings as an archetype is viable but requires the pilot to have a good understanding of how opposing decks work. Misplays seem to be punished greatly compared to other Modern decks that I've played.
Has anyone thought of redefining the Legacy format to exclude all of the cards on the reserved list? That would one way to allow Wizards to circumvent the reserved list so that Wizards can make reprints to make the format more accessible.
The last two tournaments I played in didn't quite go as well as expected, largely due to misplays from my inexperience with the archetype, but also because my deck wasn't constructed very well. Namely the mana curve of my previous list was too high and there wasn't enough disruption for the early game. I've made some changes and I'm thinking about taking this list to next modern tournament at my LGS this week:
Expensive spells like Psionic Blast and Mortify felt too cute and situational so I am cutting them in favor of cheaper removal spells. While Disfigure is often a dead card, I still think is necessary to include at least one in the main to have a chance of killing a turn 1 Deathrite Shamans or Noble Hierarchs. I put a Deathmark in the sideboard for the same purpose (despite being a sorcery, the low mana cost goes a long way).
I originally did not maindeck any sweepers besides a single Consume the Meek because I noticed how recent UWR had sweepers only in the sideboard. I now think that without access to efficient removal spells like Lightning Bolt and Electrolyze, sweepers are much more essential for an esper deck, so I have decided to maindeck two Supreme Verdict.
5 mana is really clunky. However, we do need some good answers for ub mill, since, unlike most other decks, we can't just beat them to a pulp in 3 or 4 turns. That said, I'm sure there's an instant out there that you can tutor for to shuffle your library into your graveyard that doesn't cost 5.
A 4-mana alternative is Mnemonic Nexus. Unfortunately, there just isn't room in the sideboard right now for such a situational card. My plan against UBx mill right now is the same as the one for Tron and Burn, side in Geist of Saint Traft and Elspeth, Knight-Errant to become more of a tempo deck and try to race.
Any advice on tuning the list would be apprectiated.
Despite being challenging to play, I have done better with this deck in tournaments than I have with any other archetype I've tried, which includes Bant, Tokens, and Jund. Interestingly, the most well established archetype, Jund, is the one I had the least success in.
Esper Teachings seems very well positioned against the combo and midrange heavy meta at my LGS. Haven't played a post-board game against R/G tron yet, but game 1 seems very difficult to win, as one might expect.
Regarding the primer, I'm not sure it was a good idea to remove all mention of Rhox War Monk. While Kitchen Finks and Loxodon Smiter might better in the meta overall, I can still see situations where Rhox War Monk is preferred to either of the other two.
I guess if the strategy you are using to try to beat Tron is answering their big spells when they try to cast them, using Seek might make sense. The strategy I was thinking of using to beat Tron is to disrupt their mana with land destruction spells and Stony Silence and try to race before they have the mana to cast Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Notion Thief seems like a great idea against blue Tron though. I'd have to try it out. Overall, I haven't played against Tron with this deck much. Has your strategy been working out well for you?
I do agree that if you manage to steal Karn Liberated with Commandeer on turn 4 you've pretty much won the game. I'm just not sure with a deck in which only 1/3 of the cards are blue you can count on having 2 other blue cards in hand to pitch to Commandeer when Karn Liberated is about to come down. Slaughter Games against a Grixis deck when they happen to have Cryptic Command or Counterflux in hand is great, but i feel that often you will name a card and simply miss with it. I just don't think losing a card to take cards from their library that they might draw is very effective.
I am genuinely interested in your card choices for your deck. How well have you done with your deck in tournaments?
I've thought of Commandeer but I feel that you can't count on having the two blue cards available at the moment you need it. It's more realistic to just hold up mana to Negate a Karn Liberated. Also, against tron it doesn't answer anything besides Karn Liberated. Tron has a variety of threats that demand answers and they might not even draw a Karn Liberated during a game, in which case Commandeer will be a dead card. The card disadvantage of Commandeer is generally not as bad as it looks, you pay 3 cards for you to gain a card and for your opponent to lose a card, so it's a 3 for 2 and with a tempo gain.
As for Slaughter Games, I wouldn't care too much about it. You don't need any particular card in your deck to win so if someone were to Slaughter Games me I would rejoice in that they wasted a card to do almost nothing. Same argument goes for Seek.
That's correct. I've updated the list.
Patrick Chapin basically mentioned that while he liked the list that Paul Cheon brewed up by using UWR as a starting point, he thought that Grixis would be better as it's own type of deck rather than a derivative of UWR. Patrick decided to create a different deck based on raw card advantage rather than the precision afforded by Mystical Teachings. At the time of the article he hadn't tested the deck yet, but he backed up his card choices with his reasoning quite well.
Here's the deck from the article:
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Mulldrifter
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
Instants
1 Far/Away
4 Cryptic Command
3 Spell Snare
3 Mana Leak
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Electrolyze
Sorceries
3 Cruel Ultimatum
2 Damnation
Artifacts
3 Talisman of Dominance
Planeswalkers
1 Jace Beleren
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Sunken Ruins
1 River of Tears
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Dreadship Reef
2 Blood Crypt
1 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Mountain
2 Island
2 Counterflux
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Spellskite
1 Batterskull
2 Thoughtseize
1 Damnation
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Sowing Salt
I think the deck looks quite viable. Mulldrifter and Gatekeeper of Malakir synergize with Cruel Ultimatum. He also decided to put a single copy of Mystical Teachings in the sideboard to virtually increase the number of copies of key sideboard cards.
I am definitely considering cutting Restoration Angel and when there is enough control in my local meta to justify Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir I will put it in. I did find myself wanting three copies of Mystical Teachings at times but I can't really think of anything to cut for it. I also used to run Mindbreak Trap in the sideboard but there isn't room for it right now.
It definitely seems like Esper Teachings as an archetype is viable but requires the pilot to have a good understanding of how opposing decks work. Misplays seem to be punished greatly compared to other Modern decks that I've played.
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Restoration Angel
Instants - 24
4 Esper Charm
2 Cryptic Command
2 Mystical Teachings
2 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare
2 Path to Exile
1 Disfigure
1 Smother
1 Go for the Throat
1 Devour Flesh
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Consume the Meek
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 White Sun's Zenith
3 Thoughtseize
2 Supreme Verdict
Lands - 26
3 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Celestial Colonnade
4 River of Tears
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Island
2 Mystic Gate
2 Fetid Heath
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Godless Shrine
1 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Stony Silence
2 Rain of Tears
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Deathmark
1 Celestial Purge
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Disenchant
Expensive spells like Psionic Blast and Mortify felt too cute and situational so I am cutting them in favor of cheaper removal spells. While Disfigure is often a dead card, I still think is necessary to include at least one in the main to have a chance of killing a turn 1 Deathrite Shamans or Noble Hierarchs. I put a Deathmark in the sideboard for the same purpose (despite being a sorcery, the low mana cost goes a long way).
I originally did not maindeck any sweepers besides a single Consume the Meek because I noticed how recent UWR had sweepers only in the sideboard. I now think that without access to efficient removal spells like Lightning Bolt and Electrolyze, sweepers are much more essential for an esper deck, so I have decided to maindeck two Supreme Verdict.
A 4-mana alternative is Mnemonic Nexus. Unfortunately, there just isn't room in the sideboard right now for such a situational card. My plan against UBx mill right now is the same as the one for Tron and Burn, side in Geist of Saint Traft and Elspeth, Knight-Errant to become more of a tempo deck and try to race.
Any advice on tuning the list would be apprectiated.
Good point. I'm going to replace Psychic Spiral and Rest for the Weary with 2 Leyline of Sanctity since it is good in the same two matchups, burn and mill.
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Restoration Angel
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
Instants - 23
4 Esper Charm
3 Cryptic Command
2 Mystical Teachings
1 Mana Leak
1 Azorius Charm
1 Psionic Blast
1 Path to Exile
1 Dimir Charm
1 Smother
1 Go for the Throat
1 Mortify
1 Devour Flesh
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Consume the Meek
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 White Sun's Zenith
4 Thoughtseize
Planeswalkers - 1
1 Gideon Jura
Lands - 26
3 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Celestial Colonnade
4 River of Tears
4 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Island
2 Mystic Gate
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Godless Shrine
1 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Darkslick Shores
2 Stony Silence
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Rain of Tears
1 Rest for the Weary
1 Celestial Purge
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Psychic Spiral
1 Extirpate
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Disenchant
Despite being challenging to play, I have done better with this deck in tournaments than I have with any other archetype I've tried, which includes Bant, Tokens, and Jund. Interestingly, the most well established archetype, Jund, is the one I had the least success in.
Esper Teachings seems very well positioned against the combo and midrange heavy meta at my LGS. Haven't played a post-board game against R/G tron yet, but game 1 seems very difficult to win, as one might expect.