Cream of the Crop (and cards like it) help you dig deep for specific answers or wincons. It's not there to set up a combo or synergy, it's there to keep churning through your deck for individual cards as quickly as possible.
Besides, in my Wanderer list, there have been plenty of games where I cycle through the entire deck with Cream of the Crop more than once. If you've got medium to high power creatures ETB often enough, it doesn't matter whether you're putting a card "out of reach" -- you're going to see it again soon enough.
You are definitely correct. The off time that I dig up the 2 eldrazi and have to dump one just makes me want to die inside. As you say though, in a developed deck with a high threat density, there are still powerful card to be had regardless.
A side question...I always see SDT listed as card draw. Effectively speaking, SDT doesn't really draw a card though since its a replacement effect. Is this what makes the card more useful than Mirri's Guile in like decks (I haven't played with/against SDT yet, lol. I know, strange.)
That said, I didn't value Harvester much, so I'd make that 6 CMC swap for Pontiff, personally.
He doesn't seem like much, applies double Extort onto Crypt Ghast, and usually hits for 4-6 per black spell.
How has It That Betrays been for you? I tinkered with him in the earliest build of the deck but he never performed quite the way I wanted. The deck was also much less focused at that point. I'd always held hope for the odd chance to play him with haste turn 2, but I never drew into it.
I agree that Bloodghast is amazing. And I run no stax elements. But it's so good with Clamp it's just ridiculous.
Also, Shriekmaw dies once without a sac outlet, making him still quite synergistic with the deck.
I do like Bloodghast a fair bit. He's great with both clamp and stax elements. He's not Reassembling Skeleton, but he's the next best thing.
With a sac outlet, shriekmaw essentially performs the same as Bone shredder. Without, Shriekmaw only sends itself to the yard the 1st time you play it from your hand. In practice, Bone shredder is the better of the two, unless you choose to runn both.
Any suggestions on a swap for Pontiff of Blight for testing purposes? I don't imagine him making the cut, but I'm definitely interested to see what he can do. I was thinking maybe Harvester of Souls, but I'm open to other suggestions.
I'm a fan of Cream of the Crop over guile honestly. With the amount of power Azusa tends to put onto the field combined with things like top and library already serving as pseudo guile's it just help to get that card you need.
Every time I use an effect like this, I end up putting a great card out of my reach. I've never been then biggest fan of forcibly sticking cards on the bottom.
I think that Strands of Night is the best 'mini chainer' were gonna get.
Geth is next on that list.
Primordial is probably about the same level as ink eyes.
Ink eyes seems fun though, I just got a promo one and Im looking for somewhere to put him... he'll probably end up being put into Glissa voltron for backup beats.
Terrain Generator is AMAZING.
Play it!!!
Stick shoeldred up there and I think you have an accurate list. I got an Ink-Eyes in the Planechase deck and I never liked it. The primordial is probably better and I don't like it either. Ink Eyes is much better suited for aggro/token decks IMO.
Yeah when I stuck Terrain Generator in Korlash, I was like 'Why am I not running this in Chainer?' Its almost never a disappointing card. Much better that Scrying Sheets it replaced.
Today I foiled out over a quarter more of my list!
Yesterday I played some games against my friend's Sliver Overlord list. I'm starting to become less and less satisfied with sac outlets, and usually just wish they were something else. Phyrexian Altar is an exception though because there's always a way to get ahead through recursive creatures(bloodghast+fetches is lotus cobra-esque). Surprisingly, Rings of Brighthearth has been an all star. I double strip mined, then double fetched, got a couple extra chainer activations when I was below 10 life, and so much more. The card's so much more insane than it looks.
Yay for foiling, lol!!! I sued to disdain foils, but my GF loves them, so I've started picking them up every chance I get. I got a foil Harvester of Souls for the deck over the weekend.
Phyrexian Altar is definitely the best sac outlet available. The deck may not need as many sac outlets as I run, but I like the safely blanket to keep my guys from exile and I like having them readily available to reuse ETB/LTB abilities. The Kokusho win con needs a sac outlet and reusing fun toys like Terastadon, Acidic Slime, Solemn Simulacrum, etc means we like them as well. Some folk have played without the sac outlets and the deck has performed well for them and I've seem other run a few more than myself. It boils down to personal play preference, and meta considerations if and how many sac outlets you run.
Rings of Brighthearth borders on busted once it gets going, especially if you design the deck around it.
.... In chainer targeted artifact and enchantment destruction is a waste, its not one of our strengths.
Enchantment and artifact removal isnt narrow, its practical. Every deck in EDH runs game warping artifacts and enchantments that have to be answered.
For example, if someone would have had early removal for your Phyrexian Arena you'd have been a lot less likely to topdeck XHD when you did, having drawn so many less cards.
Its different in chainer where we are more like a freight train and charge through our opponents. We still run answers, like Karn, and a ton of tutors. Moreover, most games we can steal a terastodon or the like if we really need to get rid of something.
I was more commenting on your remark about artifact and enchantment removal in general.
If you're running the mass discard enchantments, running things like Zombie Infestation and Nihilistic Glee are good since you'll already be discarding the majority of your hand.
As to Phyrexian Arena, in a different deck where I have access to more versatile removal I will almost always nuke the draw engines unless something more heinous is on the board like say Elspeth, Knight Errant. My draw engines don't last very long either usually. I'm not a fan of letting my opponents have card advantage in general.
What I didn't like when I evaluated him the first time was the fact that he does nothing until my next upkeep. I'm not dismissing him solely on this, but in my opinion there are better cards worth trying out first. I'll be doing another round of tests with my updated list soonish (pulled a Blood Scrivener on prerelease, yay!) and if I find some place for him I'll try to include him.
All in all I'm a big fan of instant or really quick benefits and if I had to choose whether to reanimate Lethemancer or, say, Cackling Fiend, I'd go with the latter.
I thought about sticking Cunning Lethemancer in my Korlash build, but I was worried he wouldn't stick around long. He'd likely be a much stronger option in a chainer build. I'd probably run him over the enchantment that forces random discard (its name escapes me at the moment) if I had to make a choice, but that's just my preference.
Have you tried Tragic Slip? It almost seems better than Dismemeber, despite its requirements.
I have both used and played against Tragic Slip. the fact that is costs 1 mana is great, however, in the first few turns when spot removal is most important it usually won't fire. I like my spot removal 1) cheap (2 mana or less), and 2) able to consistently hit as much as possible. Tragic slip usually will not pass test #2 most of the time when I actually need it. Its not the safety blanket some other cards can be.
What are the general thoughts on Thragtusk and Necropotence in Karador? Thraggy seems like a decent source of lifegain and necropotence is close to legalized cheating. Does the exile portion of necro make it unattractive for the deck?
Have you looked into Doubling Season? Its seems like it would make the deck twice as good.
You are definitely correct. The off time that I dig up the 2 eldrazi and have to dump one just makes me want to die inside. As you say though, in a developed deck with a high threat density, there are still powerful card to be had regardless.
A side question...I always see SDT listed as card draw. Effectively speaking, SDT doesn't really draw a card though since its a replacement effect. Is this what makes the card more useful than Mirri's Guile in like decks (I haven't played with/against SDT yet, lol. I know, strange.)
How has It That Betrays been for you? I tinkered with him in the earliest build of the deck but he never performed quite the way I wanted. The deck was also much less focused at that point. I'd always held hope for the odd chance to play him with haste turn 2, but I never drew into it.
I do like Bloodghast a fair bit. He's great with both clamp and stax elements. He's not Reassembling Skeleton, but he's the next best thing.
With a sac outlet, shriekmaw essentially performs the same as Bone shredder. Without, Shriekmaw only sends itself to the yard the 1st time you play it from your hand. In practice, Bone shredder is the better of the two, unless you choose to runn both.
I also don't see cycles unless they make more generic decks.
Every time I use an effect like this, I end up putting a great card out of my reach. I've never been then biggest fan of forcibly sticking cards on the bottom.
True Story.
Mutilate is the best answer for this reason.
Stick shoeldred up there and I think you have an accurate list. I got an Ink-Eyes in the Planechase deck and I never liked it. The primordial is probably better and I don't like it either. Ink Eyes is much better suited for aggro/token decks IMO.
Yeah when I stuck Terrain Generator in Korlash, I was like 'Why am I not running this in Chainer?' Its almost never a disappointing card. Much better that Scrying Sheets it replaced.
Yay for foiling, lol!!! I sued to disdain foils, but my GF loves them, so I've started picking them up every chance I get. I got a foil Harvester of Souls for the deck over the weekend.
Phyrexian Altar is definitely the best sac outlet available. The deck may not need as many sac outlets as I run, but I like the safely blanket to keep my guys from exile and I like having them readily available to reuse ETB/LTB abilities. The Kokusho win con needs a sac outlet and reusing fun toys like Terastadon, Acidic Slime, Solemn Simulacrum, etc means we like them as well. Some folk have played without the sac outlets and the deck has performed well for them and I've seem other run a few more than myself. It boils down to personal play preference, and meta considerations if and how many sac outlets you run.
Rings of Brighthearth borders on busted once it gets going, especially if you design the deck around it.
From my practice, I agree with your sentiment. Our few answers are essentially bad, conditional, and/or overcosted. Other than Karn Liberated, who is a house for other reasons, none of the removal adds enough value to our main game plan and ends up slowing the deck down. If we try fight Krosan Grip, Return to Dust, Necrotic Sliver, Acidic Slime, Chaos Warp, etc. that other decks have access to with Spine of Ish Sah, Gate to Phyrexia, and Phyrexian Tribute we come out a loser almost every time.
As to Phyrexian Arena, in a different deck where I have access to more versatile removal I will almost always nuke the draw engines unless something more heinous is on the board like say Elspeth, Knight Errant. My draw engines don't last very long either usually. I'm not a fan of letting my opponents have card advantage in general.
I thought about sticking Cunning Lethemancer in my Korlash build, but I was worried he wouldn't stick around long. He'd likely be a much stronger option in a chainer build. I'd probably run him over the enchantment that forces random discard (its name escapes me at the moment) if I had to make a choice, but that's just my preference.
I have both used and played against Tragic Slip. the fact that is costs 1 mana is great, however, in the first few turns when spot removal is most important it usually won't fire. I like my spot removal 1) cheap (2 mana or less), and 2) able to consistently hit as much as possible. Tragic slip usually will not pass test #2 most of the time when I actually need it. Its not the safety blanket some other cards can be.