Quote from wallyd2Hi all... first time poster, and new Chainer, Dementia Master player. I have put together a list similar to the ones I have seen here and have a quick question (I am sure more questions to arrive soon).
What do you think about (or have you ever played) Vampire Hexmage? My playgroup utilizes a ton of Planeswalkers and/or creatures with +1/+1 counters and it seems that Chainer could use and abuse her ability quite nicely.
Quote from mrfortesqueWould either of the two of you have decklists that you could post? I'm rather curious as to what you consider the business spells of a chainer deck at the upper end of the curve - especially given how high my average cmc is right now. Also, thoughts on dark tutelage?
Quote from mrfortesqueDid anyone wind up actually making the transition to a more dark confidant focused Chainer build? I'm looking at doing it myself, and I'm curious to see what other people did.
Quote from gmaI did. I run a discard heavy build and he's been awesome. My cmc 3.42, but I've ways to regain lost life when, say, Myojin shows up first.
Quote from Throst54when i buy more perfect fits so i can dbl sleeve the deck
I mostly dont want to lost all is dust and decree of pain
Quote from MrCouponI've actually been thinking about cutting Entomb recently. I don't have an early-game plan for it anymore without the Clamp package, and it's been clogging my draws recently. Realistically it's just an issue of a small sample-size and no need to overreact, but I only want Entomb when Chainer is in play anymore.
Quote from MrCouponMy opinion on Geth is that, given his functional redundancy with our General, he is a wasted slot. This is especially relevant because he is taking up a "bomb card" slot. The deck needs X acceleration based upon meta, and Y card draw based up acceleration, so that those slots are more or less mutually exclusive with the Geth slots. That means Geth is supposed to have a big, game-swinging effect... and all he does is what Chainer does, but for more mana and less life. Not useless, Geth has his spots, but I feel it is better to play a non-General-redundant effect to get the most mileage out of the card slot.
Quote from Throst54Either way we dont care about tuck.
We run more sac outlets and tutors than most decks.
In a heavy artifact stax version with lots of mana rocks orb is pretty good.
The bigger problem is other people playing mana rocks, as we dont have a huge way to get rid of them while keeping ours.
Quote from AequitasKillerHas anyone played Nether Void in this deck? It seems good if we can reliably cheat things into play.
Quote from Throst54You can hard cast it.
Sickening Shoal is a card I never use lightly, I hold onto it basically to keep be from losing, or to kill the only creature keeping me from losing.
The only time i cast it early on is to get rid of kaalia, jhoria, arcuum, azusa, or omnath.
Left unattended early game those generals tend to get out of hand.
The 2for1 is usually okay as later game we usually have great card advantage.
Oh yeah, and dont forget beseech the queen is 6cc.
Awesome for shoal, not so awesome for confidant.
Quote from asteriskreapercheck out my thraimundar deck and/or my Kresh deck, they have a ton of kill spells/removal you might find interesting... my personal favorite thought is Tribute to hunger just because we have a jenara enchantment deck and target spells are worthless against him.
Also what exactly is the tuck rule?
Quote from Throst54slum reaper is awesome too, if you need more sac effects or just want to be able to tutor for one with dimir house guard.
I like that no one sees darkness coming, but having a perma fog on the board is pretty attractive as well.
Quote from GiodanteHe got really lucky that he was able to land an early Necropotence with nobody able to remove it, especially in an S-tier deck such as Zur the Enchanter. I wouldn't necessarily say it means there's anything wrong with your Chainer build. If you really want to do something about Zur, Sudden Death is a great way to deal with Vanishing. If you want removal on a body, Royal Assassin keeps him in check.
Quote from MrCouponI don't agree with this assessment. Zur decks are incredibly good at getting Necro early (i.e. attack with Zur once), and often removing Necro is a benefit to the player who has it in play. It is also often very difficult to kill Zur with spot removal, as he protects himself quickly. Imo the best way for us to deal with a Zur deck is to target them for discard to force the counter and follow up with a board wipe.
I think if jmdt is going to be dealing with this type of deck with any frequency he should look to evolve his list to handle this type of situation in a better, more consistent manner. It's one thing when random stuff happens in an EDH game, but what was described is what Zur does.
Edit: I guess I could go either way on the tuck rule (not just for the NFL anymore :P). On one hand, I get that many people will feel as if the point of EDH is to always be able to play your general. Therefor, if he leaves play, you should have the option of returning him to the command zone. On the other hand, I have no issues with players having to make an intelligent assessment about whether or not to run their general into a situation in which someone has :1mana::symu::symu: open... One side rewards good play more, one side allows some people to enjoy the format more.
Quote from B1ind FremenHow would combos get stronger if tuck were weaker against Generals? Did you actually read my posts, or did you just assume that I was suggesting tuck would not work on ANY cards? Let me make it crystal clear that tuck would work on all non-General cards.
With General tuck a non-factor, players would still have to play skillfully and innovate their deck lists. Perhaps Fogs would become more prevalent (they are criminally underplayed right now). Voltron decks could still use creature tutors, but wouldn't be forced to save them in case their General met an untimely Hallowed Burial. Games would be more fun, in my opinion.
Quote from B1ind FremenAgreed. Clones used to be braindead removal spells, and now blue players will have to use actual skill to get rid of your general instead of relying on a crutch.
Now if they could just get rid of the tuck rule...