Alesha is still my pick as the best one.
Can play stax, check.
Can play combo, check.
Can play MLD, check.
Can recur stuff over and over, check.
Plus, she/he's (I know, it's confusing) only 3cc.
Here's my current midrange combo list. It's pretty solid.
Need some suggestions on trying to build (yet another) Simic deck, but without the durdle combos so imminent in the card pool.
Going for a midrange control build, cloning big stuff and smashing for the win while keeping combo at bay.
Any constructive advice would be more than appreciated.
Updated list.
Had a lot of modifications through the years, but no longer updated here.
Pics of foils are also now posted, but will provide better scans soon.
Still have to acquire some new foils, particularly first prints of Phyrexian Metamorph, High Market and Rhystic Study. Will pass on the Onslaught Fetch foils since ther're a tad too expensive these days.
Jeez, it's like every month, we get a new eternal card (in my case, for Commander and Legacy), which will now have a foil version. (Just recently, Burgeoning, and a little way back, Pyroblast, Toxic Deluge, Force of Will, etc...)
What headache for foil collectors everywhere. I avoided the expeditions and stuck with first-prints because of the inferior print quality, but now you have to take into account the first-time foil prints and the oh-so-beautiful border and artwork.
They know where to hit us where it hurts
For now I'm aiming to snag a Masterpiece Mana Vault.
But damn, the rest of them are just so wonderfully crafted...
Still have my Derevi deck, but have rarely been playing it since my meta became less competitive the past year.
I'm planning an enchantress build soon, but don't really know where to start.
I think once you run into faster combo decks your perspective on deckbuilding may change somewhat. Hopefully your meta balances out. No deck should win more than 50% of the time in a healthy meta.
I think I know where you're coming from.
I used to run with a playgroup with faster combo decks, such as Scion with Hermit Druid, Sen Triplets Reanimator with complete tutor suite, including the portal ones, Damia with all the time walks or with Doomsday-Lab Maniac, etc. I have to admit, in that kind of meta, my deck would'nt be suitable, but I got tired of that kind of playgroup (5-30 min per game?) and just left it. The playgroup eventually disbanded because they got sick of each other. They were just one playgroup anyway.
Several playgroups here in Manila that I now run with consist of decks which grind games out, desist from using extra turn spells in favor for tech with more resiliency, aggro and control, ala rock type of decks, and favor playing white MLD spells like Cataclysm and Armaggedon. Some mentionables would be Marath (which i hate the most), Prossh, Mimeoplasm, Karador, Rafiq (get there version, ala MLD + some combo), Azusa, Azami, Arcanis, Glissa Infect, other Derevis, and a whole lot of others. They still run the usual combos and fast kill cards, but due to the no. of answer cards most of us run, like a lot of spot removal, efficient counterspells and static abilities that deter combos, its kind of hard pushing through the hate. In short, no one plays the turn 1-3 combo decks. I built my deck around such a meta, which is why I think I garner a lot of wins. For now I may be getting away with it, but I think peeps will eventually gun me down. Sometimes I just play with the deck for about 2 games. And after winning despicably, I switch to my Azami, Sen Triplets or Animar just for the hate to die down. Maybe thats why I still get away with it.
But, yeah, hopefully people wil start adapting and just kill of my early dude drops and artifact ramp. Then again, I do have a strong mid game strategy, so I might still pull through. But as for people playing faster combo wins, to keep up with me? That will be very unlikely considering the current EDH philosophy the majority of players here now run with.
Selvala was a double-edged sword. Had to win that turn or prevent opponents from untappping upon activating her else bad things happened. Killing people with Mirror Entity is fairly slow. But I think it illustrates the difficulty of assembling your win condition, the Lark Combo. It's just too hard to assemble that many cards. I was never happy with it in Rafiq
While you do have a point in the difficulty of assembling the Reveillark combos, I usually don't force it out. I rarely force the deck to combo out anyway since I usually try to lock the game down first so that my opponents play on my terms, then just let the combo naturally come out.
Also, I think Reveillark's inherent property as a recursion spell warrants its inclusion. Usually, I just use it as an reanimation spell to recur important creatures that provide immediate advantages. He's a nice way to ensure your bant goodstuff creatures remain in the battlefield. Incorporate that with Karmic Guide and Deadeye, and its Christmas.
My point with the Mirror Entity is that there were times I could already take out an opponent (just 1) while leaving myself enough resources to get to the next turn and do something else. Immediately worrying about 1 less opponent (especially those who prefer to hide behind counterwalls and other one-time use spells, as well as those who you know are preparing to take extra turns or combo off) is always a good thing.
I've been taking out lots of people recently by just playing Mirror Entity and attacking with an X/X army.
I'm pretty happy with the current list. Not only is it the most optimum build I played so far, (consistently winning a majority of the games I played it with, like 75%-100% of the time), but its also the most amusing one.
New minor updates:
- Selvala, Explorer Returned --> Found it to be too risky, since it gives opponent CA, which is never a good thing. Since I play minimal tax spells like Gaddock Teeg, Thalia, Grand Arbiter, etc..., I could never really control the no. of spells opponents cast unless I setup the orb locks prior to using her.
+ 1 Stroke of Genius --> Trying out new card draw spells. Sometimes, you just simply need to refill your hand, you cast stuff so much early. Next in line would be the Bident of Thassa once I get a foil one
I like the deck and only have one question. Mind over Matter? It seems like it would fit well with your game plan.
Sorry, but I don't understand how Mind over Matter would fit with the strategy of this deck.
You already have dudes + Derevi to tap (to gain tempo and ensure answer cards can't be played during certain steps/phases) and untap stuff (to reuse resources like colored mana, Azami, Birthing Pod, Gilded Lotus, Gaea's Cradle and Bloom Tender, while going around Hokori/Winter Orb). I can't normaly tutor for it, and it costs 4U, which leaves you little mana to play countermagic to protect what your about to do.
I feel some inconsistency with the deck sometimes. Not sure with Selvala and Hushwing Gryff yet.
I'm hoping they will show some significance in the meta soon :D.
Memory Lapse is fine.
How about Delay? It's been a very effective counterspell for me.
Or Remand for that extra draw?
I've taken another look at your advice earlier and have started incorporating elements of your build to my own. I'm impressed with what you're already achieved with the current build, and how some individual cards or synergies just take over a multilayer game. I may dodge some options here and there, since I still want to play a less aggressive role for some games/situations, but overall I think I get what and where the deck already is.
I think the list can be improved, especially the lands.
The deck basically runs like an elf-ball deck, its ultra fast, but somewhat fragile against some decks. A glass canon hehe.
It makes up for by increasing the land count early while boosting Animar, as well as having a lot of creatures that recur stuff up, along with some engines.
Can play stax, check.
Can play combo, check.
Can play MLD, check.
Can recur stuff over and over, check.
Plus, she/he's (I know, it's confusing) only 3cc.
Here's my current midrange combo list. It's pretty solid.
1 Alesha, Who Smiles at Death
Lands (35):
1 Scrubland
1 Badlands
1 Plateau
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
1 Blood Crypt
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Command Tower
1 City of Brass
1 Mana Confluence
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Strip Mine
1 High Market
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Swamp
3 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Diamond
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Felwar Stone
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Boros Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Draw (7):
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Painful Truths
1 Faithless Looting
Removal (11):
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Armageddon
1 Cataclysm
1 Austere Command
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Unexpectedly Absent
1 Chaos Warp
1 Bone Shredder
1 Murderous Redcap
Utility (9):
1 Boros Charm
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mother of Runes
1 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Restoration Angel
1 Kiki-jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Entomb
1 Buried Alive
Loop Outlets (6):
1 Altar of Dementia
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Viscera Seer
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Blood Artist
Recursion (9):
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Karmic Guide
1 Reveillark
1 Sun Titan
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Animate Dead
1 Necromancy
1 Dance of the Dead
Need some suggestions on trying to build (yet another) Simic deck, but without the durdle combos so imminent in the card pool.
Going for a midrange control build, cloning big stuff and smashing for the win while keeping combo at bay.
Any constructive advice would be more than appreciated.
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
Recur (4):
1 Regrowth or Skullwinder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Archeomancer
1 Body Double
Value (8):
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Rite of Replication
1 Progenitor Mimic
1 Ghostly flicker
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Panharmonicon
1 Seedborn Muse
Draw (10):
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Ponder
1 Brainstorm
1 Sylvan Library
1 Rhystic Study
1 Jace, the Mindsculptor
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Mulldrifter
1 Recurring Insight
1 Consecrated Sphinx
Tutor (9):
1 Mystical tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Traverse the Ulvenwald
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Trinkent Mage
1 Fierce Empath
1 Bribery
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Chord of Calling
1 Mana Crypt
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
1 Sol Ring
1 Simic Signet or Thought Vessel
1 Nature's lore
1 Three Visits
1 Farseek
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Azusa, Lost bu Seeking
1 Darksteel Ingot
Removal (9):
1 Tormod's Crypt or Bane of Progress
1 Pongify
1 Rapid Hybridization
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Gilded Drake
1 Beast Within
1 Trygon Predator
1 Capsize
1 Acidic Slime
Counterspell (10):
1 Force of Will
1 Pact of Negation
1 Swan Song
1 Delay
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Mana Drain
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Cryptic Command
1 Mystic Confluence
Finisher (3):
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Truimph of the Hordes
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Command Tower
1 Tropical Island
1 Breeding pool
1 Hinterland harbor
1 Flooded Groove
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 High Market
8 Forest
8 Island
Notable Exclusions:
1 Voidslime
1 Mystic Snake
1 Claws of Gix + Parallax Tide
1 Crop Rotation
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Duplicant
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Cloudstone Curio
1 Crystal Shard
1 Green Sun's Zenith
Marsh Flats, cast Mana Crypt, cast Show and Tell
Bring down Omniscience, counter back up Pact of Negation
Cast Recurring Insight, refill hand. Chained draw spells to Enter the Infinite.
Had a lot of modifications through the years, but no longer updated here.
Pics of foils are also now posted, but will provide better scans soon.
Still have to acquire some new foils, particularly first prints of Phyrexian Metamorph, High Market and Rhystic Study. Will pass on the Onslaught Fetch foils since ther're a tad too expensive these days.
Survival of the Fittest - solid Commander staple. banned in Legacy, too clunky in Vintage
Bloom Tender - Started to rise during the 3 color commander era
Food Chain - got banned in French, but still relevant in some Commander decks
Minamo, School at Water's Edge, Hall of the Bandit Lord, and other Kamigawa legendary lands - superb utility, again relevant to some commander decks
Seedborn Muse - So powerful in Commander I could cry
Tooth and Nail - play this, then usually win
Academy Rector - cheats Omniscience and other powerful stuff to play
What headache for foil collectors everywhere. I avoided the expeditions and stuck with first-prints because of the inferior print quality, but now you have to take into account the first-time foil prints and the oh-so-beautiful border and artwork.
They know where to hit us where it hurts
For now I'm aiming to snag a Masterpiece Mana Vault.
But damn, the rest of them are just so wonderfully crafted...
Still have my Derevi deck, but have rarely been playing it since my meta became less competitive the past year.
I'm planning an enchantress build soon, but don't really know where to start.
I think I know where you're coming from.
I used to run with a playgroup with faster combo decks, such as Scion with Hermit Druid, Sen Triplets Reanimator with complete tutor suite, including the portal ones, Damia with all the time walks or with Doomsday-Lab Maniac, etc. I have to admit, in that kind of meta, my deck would'nt be suitable, but I got tired of that kind of playgroup (5-30 min per game?) and just left it. The playgroup eventually disbanded because they got sick of each other. They were just one playgroup anyway.
Several playgroups here in Manila that I now run with consist of decks which grind games out, desist from using extra turn spells in favor for tech with more resiliency, aggro and control, ala rock type of decks, and favor playing white MLD spells like Cataclysm and Armaggedon. Some mentionables would be Marath (which i hate the most), Prossh, Mimeoplasm, Karador, Rafiq (get there version, ala MLD + some combo), Azusa, Azami, Arcanis, Glissa Infect, other Derevis, and a whole lot of others. They still run the usual combos and fast kill cards, but due to the no. of answer cards most of us run, like a lot of spot removal, efficient counterspells and static abilities that deter combos, its kind of hard pushing through the hate. In short, no one plays the turn 1-3 combo decks. I built my deck around such a meta, which is why I think I garner a lot of wins. For now I may be getting away with it, but I think peeps will eventually gun me down. Sometimes I just play with the deck for about 2 games. And after winning despicably, I switch to my Azami, Sen Triplets or Animar just for the hate to die down. Maybe thats why I still get away with it.
But, yeah, hopefully people wil start adapting and just kill of my early dude drops and artifact ramp. Then again, I do have a strong mid game strategy, so I might still pull through. But as for people playing faster combo wins, to keep up with me? That will be very unlikely considering the current EDH philosophy the majority of players here now run with.
While you do have a point in the difficulty of assembling the Reveillark combos, I usually don't force it out. I rarely force the deck to combo out anyway since I usually try to lock the game down first so that my opponents play on my terms, then just let the combo naturally come out.
Also, I think Reveillark's inherent property as a recursion spell warrants its inclusion. Usually, I just use it as an reanimation spell to recur important creatures that provide immediate advantages. He's a nice way to ensure your bant goodstuff creatures remain in the battlefield. Incorporate that with Karmic Guide and Deadeye, and its Christmas.
My point with the Mirror Entity is that there were times I could already take out an opponent (just 1) while leaving myself enough resources to get to the next turn and do something else. Immediately worrying about 1 less opponent (especially those who prefer to hide behind counterwalls and other one-time use spells, as well as those who you know are preparing to take extra turns or combo off) is always a good thing.
I'm pretty happy with the current list. Not only is it the most optimum build I played so far, (consistently winning a majority of the games I played it with, like 75%-100% of the time), but its also the most amusing one.
New minor updates:
- Selvala, Explorer Returned --> Found it to be too risky, since it gives opponent CA, which is never a good thing. Since I play minimal tax spells like Gaddock Teeg, Thalia, Grand Arbiter, etc..., I could never really control the no. of spells opponents cast unless I setup the orb locks prior to using her.
+ 1 Stroke of Genius --> Trying out new card draw spells. Sometimes, you just simply need to refill your hand, you cast stuff so much early. Next in line would be the Bident of Thassa once I get a foil one
Sorry, but I don't understand how Mind over Matter would fit with the strategy of this deck.
You already have dudes + Derevi to tap (to gain tempo and ensure answer cards can't be played during certain steps/phases) and untap stuff (to reuse resources like colored mana, Azami, Birthing Pod, Gilded Lotus, Gaea's Cradle and Bloom Tender, while going around Hokori/Winter Orb). I can't normaly tutor for it, and it costs 4U, which leaves you little mana to play countermagic to protect what your about to do.
Care to elaborate?
Newly removed:
- Phyrexian Altar --> Less sac outlets needed
- Chromatic Lantern --> Current lands get the job done, may miss it against blood moon
- Sakura Tribe Scout --> does less and less over time
- Worldly Tutor --> replaced with Thada Adel
- Grand Arbiter Augustin IV --> replaced with Hushwing Gryff for testing
- Seaside Citadel --> replaced with flooded grove
- Island --> replaced with Mystic Gate
- Forest --> Replaced with Wooded Bastion
Newly Added:
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim* --> For testing. Early mana accel and attaker
1 Selvala, Explorer Returned* --> For testing, got it for the draw and the mana accel
1 Hushwing Gryff* --> For testing, Torpor Bird! Can be sac'd when not needed
1 Thada Adel, Acquisitor* --> For testing, unblockable tutor/CA
1 Carpet of Flowers --> For testing, very powerful any point of the game against a blue flooded meta
1 Flooded Grove --> For testing
1 Mystic Gate --> For testing
1 Wooded Bastion --> For testing
I feel some inconsistency with the deck sometimes. Not sure with Selvala and Hushwing Gryff yet.
I'm hoping they will show some significance in the meta soon :D.
How about Delay? It's been a very effective counterspell for me.
Or Remand for that extra draw?
I've taken another look at your advice earlier and have started incorporating elements of your build to my own. I'm impressed with what you're already achieved with the current build, and how some individual cards or synergies just take over a multilayer game. I may dodge some options here and there, since I still want to play a less aggressive role for some games/situations, but overall I think I get what and where the deck already is.
Some concerns:
a. I'd still want Elesh Norn inside.
b. I feel that the deck, on paper, lacks instant speed removal spells, but I hope I'm wrong when I start playtesting it (NO SWORDS TO PLOWSHARES?)
c. After going infinite via reveillark/mirror entity/body double, here's my percieved win cons, let me know me if I miss any by chance:
c1. Surgespanner Bounce
c2. Vernser Bounce
c3. Derevi Tap out + infi mana
c4. Eternal Witness for value (or + Sun Titan and Strip Mine)
c5. Azami for value
c6. Luminarch Ascension for infi tokens
It may take some time though since I've yet to acquire some of the cards.
I retired this build about a year ago. Hope it will give you some insights.
1 Arbor Elf
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Fydhorn Elves
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Orcish Lumberjack
1 Tinderwall
1 Wild Cantor
1 Bloom Tender
1 Priest of Titania
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Sylvan Ranger
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Wood Elves
1 Yavimaya Granger
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
Draw:
1 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Raven Familiar
1 Haru-onna
1 Mulldrifter
1 Skullmulcher
1 Primordial Sage
1 Soul of the Harvest
1 Regal Force
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Myojin of Seeing Winds
1 Sylvan Library
1 Brainstorm
1 Glimpse of Nature
1 Frantic Search
Protection:
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
Utility:
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Clone
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Shrieking Drake
1 Dream Stalker
1 Man O' War
1 Kiri-onna
Combo:
1 Cloud of Fairies
1 Deceiver Exarch
1 Pestermite
1 Peregrine Drake
1 Palinchron
1 Earthcraft
1 Aluren
Recursion:
1 Eternal Witness
1 Body Double
1 Deadwood Treefolk
1 Artisan of Kozilek
Tutor:
1 Fierce Empath
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Trinket Mage
1 Brutalizer Exarch
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Crop Rotation
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Chord of Calling
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
1 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Grounds
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Reflection Pool
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Command Tower
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Ancient Ziggurat
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Mana Confluence
5 Island
5 Forest
1 Mountain
I think the list can be improved, especially the lands.
The deck basically runs like an elf-ball deck, its ultra fast, but somewhat fragile against some decks. A glass canon hehe.
It makes up for by increasing the land count early while boosting Animar, as well as having a lot of creatures that recur stuff up, along with some engines.
A unique combo in the build with the ff:
1. Have at least 5 lands in play, preferrably with 3 U sources, 1 G, 1 R at least.
2. Animar has at least 2 counters, tap UUURG
3. Cast Imperial Recruiter, get Phyrexian Metamorph (UUUGleft)
4. Phyrexian Metamorph as Imperial Recruiter, get Kiri-Onna
5. Kiri-Onna bounces Phyrexian Metamorph (UUGleft)
6. Phyrexian Metamorph as Imperial Recruiter, get Haru-Onna
7. Haru-onna bounces Kiri-onna, draw a card (UUleft)
8. Kiri-onna bounces Haru-onna and Phyrexian Metamorph (Uleft)
9. Phyrexian Metamorph as Imperial Recruiter, get Peregrine Drake
10. Peregrine Drake, untap 5 lands, repeat step 7 and 8 for huge amount of mana and draw.
The combo if surpisingly consistent, since you only need Imperial Recruiter to start it. Just the Imperial Recruiter.
Some cards that I want but lack, aside from the pain lands/filter lands, are the ff:
Chrome Mox
Slithermuse
Sylvan Tutor