I play 4 Thragtusk in every deck I own. Not because it's a ridiculously over powered card, but because it works in my decks. If it wasnt for Thragtusk I couldn't durdle. I personally have a problem with GoST but I just play around it. For those of you that dont know, this is how magic works. People play the best carss in their respective formats and the best cards that work in their deck. I'd have to imagine that delver just wouldnt have been delver without snapcaster mage and scapeshift wouldnt have worked witout valakut. If you feel like thragtusk is an overpowered card find a way to beat it or just play 4 like everybody else. Otherwise just play a different format.
Thragtusk is NOTHING compared to what stoneforge mystic was and I personally love the current state of standard due to wide variety soley due to our 5/3 beasty friend. Oh and if you havent played a deck with 4 Thragtusk and 4 Resto angels then you havent played yet haha. There will always be a card to complain about, but we are forced to adapt and that is what makes this game so fun.
In my experience Olivia is really bad in the matchup because in my frites list and most frites list I've seen there is 1 or 2 Olivia in the 75. Legend ruling her is really good especially when frites can just bring her back. However is she sticks without an answer we just lose.
Nevertheless, to all you Jund players I would just play a turn 1 shaman and you should be fine. Forcing us to waste a removal spell on a shaman is really annoying.
Slaughter games is usually not the best thing since i side out 2 unburial rites every time against jund, and so does everyone that plays the deck in my meta. Simply put, naming thragtusk with your slaughter games is probably the most detrimental thing to do right next to the turn 1 shaman. Grafdigger's cage has never impacted me since it does nothing to my graveyard permanently unlike rest in peace.
Sublime Archangel seems to be what beats my face. When they play turn 1 dork, turn 2 smiter, turn 3 silverblade plus rancor on the play I can usually survive with a removal spell, BUT when they turn 4 a Sublime a die. (FYI I dont run dorks.)
I really have no way to deal with that deck next to including ultimate price which i cant seem to find room for. With that being said though that is an absolute perfect hand for them.
Selesnya Charm was something I didnt even consider but it makes sense and I will probably test it at FNM this week.
As all of you have been saying, yes she does not have an immediate board effect, but it is by far one of the strongest creatures in the format. There is a removal spell for everything, however if she is not dealt with your opponent simply loses. Its an excellent way to threaten the game, and I believe she deserves one slot in most if not all reanimator decks. Try her at your next FNM or in a Daily, she adds a strong aggro feel to the deck. If you do try her please let us all know how it worked out for you.
Ok, so Gisela, Blade of Goldnight is an absolute powerhouse, and I cannot fathom why she isn't being played in most the frites lists. Not only does she make all of their big bad monsters seem very cute she puts your opponent on a two turn clock. If you mix this card with Craterhoof Behemoth and attack without a response from the poor guy or gal sitting across the table they are simply dead.
vs Zombies they simply have a lack of answers for her. They have sever the bloodline, murder, tragic slip(if the morbid triggers), and in the Rakdos version they have dreadbore.
She is one of the fastest win conditions I could find, and has taken me on a 10-1 near flawless run in the past couple of weeks.
However I could be totally wrong, so what do you guys think? Is she as good as I think she is? Or am I being blinded by the coolness of this card? If you haven't tested with this card it is highly recommended.
Round 1 vs Bant Control
First game of most matches is usually a breeze for us, and this was no different. In the second game I playes an unburial rites and Gisela hit the field with a Craterhoof and another unburial rites in the yard. He sphered my Gisela, which was fine since I was gripping a ray of revelation and a golgari charm. He tapped out for Thragtusk and I rayed his sphere. That was match.
SB: -3 Centaur Healer -1 Lingering Souls
+2 Sever the Bloodline +2 Ray of Revelation
Round 2 vs R/W/B Controlly Deck Thing
If I remember correctly he casted zeolous conscripts to take an angel of serenity and that was the only spel cast. Needless to say. Game 1 was a
breeze. In game 2 he played a Sorin, Lord of Innistrad and casted a couple of Lingering Souls but that was no match for a Griselbrand and a couple of Angel's of Serenity.
SB: -2 Gisela (If I see Zeolous Conscripts Gisela comes out without a doubt.)
+1 Drogskol Reaver +1 Griselbrand
I wasn't really sure what was happening so I wasnt to sure about the boarding, but it worked out so I was pleased.
Round 3 vs Golgari Zombies
He kept a one-lander, and applied alot of board pressure with 3 Diregraf Ghouls and a lotleth troll. Luckily, rolling temblor saved the day, and he didn't have an answer for Gisela. I flooded out game 2 and got destroyed by 3 Geralf's Messengers. In game 3 he started out strong with 2 Gravecrawlers and Messenger, however after blocking with a couple of souls, a rolling temblor and a Rakdos Charm ruined his board presence. I proceeded to play 2 lingering souls and flash 1 back. He flooded out and I played a Craterhoof. That is all.
SB: -2 Centaur Healer(I know what you are thinking, but Rhox Faithmender replaced this guy.) -1 Lingering Souls -2 Dreadbore -1 Golgari Charm
+2 Rhox Faithmender +2 Sever the BLoodline +2 Rakdos Charm
Rounds 4&5 I just drew into the Top 8.
1st Match vs U/W Control
Ugh, that deck is the grindiest thing to play against, but I prevailed with the HOOF in both games.
SB: -3 Centaur Healer -2 Rolling Temblor
+2 Ray of Revelation +2 Sever the Bloodline +1 Rakdos Charm
2nd Match vs Rakdos Zombies
This is where I meet my demise via Blood Artist and a pair of both messengers and gravecrawlers. He simply had the best imaginable hand and drew like a boss. I happened to be friends with the guy, and he told me that if it wasn't for pure luck there was no way he should have won. To be honest he is just a good player, and I got bested. In game 2 I romped his face with a turn 4 Gisela and a turn 5 craterhoof. In game 3 he had enough Ultimate prices to deal with a thragtusk, the beast token, and an angel of serenity.
SB: -1 Centaur Healer -3 Lingering Souls -1 Golgari Charm
+2 Rhox Faithmender +3 Rakdos Charm (Why I didn't side in Severs, I'll never know.)
I finished 4th overall out of around 25 or so people(not a good turn out). The deck ran near flawlessly, and I made very few play errors besides a couple of badly kept hands, and misplayed turn 1 lands. I have come to find that Gisela is my favorite card in the deck, and i don't understand why she isn't being played more. Rolling Temblor is a must have as is dreadbore. I plan to continue to play this deck and continue to report my results to this forum.
Round 1: vs U/W Delver 1-2
Game 1: Started out great, turn 1 Delver, no flip, turn 2 pike, turn 3 Miracle wrath and flip delver equip pike and continued to smash face.
Game 2: He turned 3 sword of war and peace with a flipped Delver out...nothing else to be said.
Game 3: It happened again.
Round 2: vs Naya Pod
Game 1: Dead Draws, Dead Draws Dead Draws....I have come to find that this deck does this alot, since the rest of my matches went about the same way so there is no need to explain it. I have unfortunately abandoned this deck and turn to RUG Delver in standard. I will post my decklist for it soon.
Ok, excuse my lack of response, but I have taken your advice and made changes...I am currently on my phone so I will post my new decklist...but the changes are...
-2 Think Twice
-3 Grim Lavamancer
-2 Koth
-1 devastation tide
-3 Vapor Snag (didn't help)
-1 Evolving Wilds
+2 Faithless Looting
+4 Ponder
+2 Invisible Stalker
+3 Stormblood Beserker
+1 Devil's Play(End Game)
+1 Mountain
I dont know what I was thinking but I just derped out on ponder.
As for invisible stalker...he is a monstrosity in here. As is the berserker.
I do recover from tide very fast since the only thing i usually have on the field is a Delver. I made Tezzeret cry when he had to discard 5 cards haha.
I tried Chandra and she is just ok..I determined that nothing in the deck deserves a lost spot for her.
As for changing my win-con to burn...I would have to drop all the blue and make big red. Where that would take away my fun in masteries and tides. However if you would like to expand and give me options I would be more than happy to try it out.
ThAnk you everybody for the responses and keep em coming I could always use help.
I just got home so here is my new decklist....it works over 9000 times better...
I currently don't have the deck in front of me, but that is the list as far as I know and what I will be running tomorrow. I wanted to add +2 Bonfire, but that is also pricey, so I kept it at two. Thanks again for all the advice...I will post my results from FNM tomorrow.
Have you considered maxing out at 6 with Massacre Wurm. At first he seems bad, but he has turned out to be quite a force to reckon with. Especially in a match up against a bunch of weenies, and may I ask why Liliana is in the sideboard? Out of curiosity.
In my experience podding for a conscripts or hard casting usually isn't a bad thing the 2nd one will not hurt. As for Thragtusk I would have to agree with your logic, however without a 6 mana target I dont see 2 of him ever being needed. What do you usually side the 2nd one in for?
Ok I'm sorry if this has already been posted, if it has please point me in the right direction, but after much playtesting I have given a go at the much hated and disliked U/R "Miracle" Delver variant.
So the goal of the deck, as is every other delver deck, is to put dat Pike/Sword on Delver and continue to pound your sadfaced opponents face. However, you haven't played delver until you flip delver with a Thunderous Wrath.
Time to explain myself...
We will begin with creatures. Delver of Secrets
Obvious reasons. He is a mean bug. Vexing Devil
Oh my God. This card is amazing. Dealing 4 damage on turn 2 or 3(Hopefully not turn 1, because you want to turn 1 Delver or ponder), leaving a 4/3 threat on the field, or forcing them to waste a kill spell on a 1 mana creature is great. Wouldn't take it out for anything. Grim Lavamancer
Ok I couldn't decide between this dude or Snapcaster Mager, but after playtesting lavamancer gets the game done faster so he got the spot. You spit cards into the graveyard and give him much ammo. 2 Damage is ALOT of damage, especially when it happens every turn.
As for dem instants and sorceries... Temporal Mastery
Haha yea it's a 4 of, haha and yea I take an extra turn more often :P. Even if the only thing I get to do is lay down an extra land, I still get to lay down an extra land. This card is also super good with Koth. Mana Leak
Counterspell...yup. Devestation Tide
I don't enjoy pissing my meta off, but I do so this card deserves a few spots in my deck. This cards also kick some artifacts right in the face. Bonfire of the Damned
I made a miracle deck, so uhhhhh yea. Think Twice
The only reason I have any card draw besides ponder is to trigger Miracles on their turn. I wanted to put Thought Scour in but the flashback has actually come in handy during playtesting. I couldn't decide between the two and if you guys could provide me with some help it would be much appreciated. Vapor Snag
This card is awesome, as noted in other Delver decks. I couldn't decide betweeen the snag or Pillar of Flame. I enjoy the instant speed and the wider range of targets for vapor snag, but Pillar of Flame provides for early PERMANENT removal. Once again, some help would be much appreciated. Thunderous Wrath
5 Damage is 1/4 of their life. That is all.
The "Other Stuff"... Koth of the Hammer
I know!!!! He is Koth! He is not played! But he does do awesome things for this deck. He adds mana to hard cast my miracles and he makes my mountains into 4/4's. Uhhhhh yea I think I like it. His ultimate doesn't do much for me, but overall his +1 and -2 help ALOT. Runechanter's Pike
This card adds a ton of damage. As you all should know Delver with da pike is massacre. The only problem is that I lose power with Grim Lavamancer, therefore I've been stealin some swords from my U/W Delver deck to use when I can, but for the time being it works pretty well. Desolate Lighthouse
Loothouse...obvious reasons. Activates miracles during your opponents turn and sifts through all dat garbage floating on top of your deck. Evolving Wilds
Thinking about cutting this, but it helps out sometimes. IT's a meh whatever kind of card.
A big disadvantage of this deck is holding miracles in your hand. I can usually stall with leaks and snags until late games, but it does pose a big problem. I have consider adding Reforge the Soul to help, but the same thing usually happens.
Another drawback is heavy removal decks. My dudes usually die. Vexing Devil doesn't apply board pressure and Delver has a target on his head. Lavamancer hangs around long enough until I have to block a Geist of Saint Traft.
I am really open to new ideas and hope for tons of criticism. Please don't just spam with useless post like "this deck sucks" or whatever. I know this isn't the best deck, but I play U/W Delver and wanted a break from the usual so I made a fun deck to use at FNM. I've been working on a side board, but I didn't even think it was worth posting. If you guys have ideas for it please post a reply.
*Note This is my first post so I apologize for any mistypes or mess ups with the card/deck tags, and the format might be a bit junky but it should be legible. Go easy on me.
Thragtusk is NOTHING compared to what stoneforge mystic was and I personally love the current state of standard due to wide variety soley due to our 5/3 beasty friend. Oh and if you havent played a deck with 4 Thragtusk and 4 Resto angels then you havent played yet haha. There will always be a card to complain about, but we are forced to adapt and that is what makes this game so fun.
Nevertheless, to all you Jund players I would just play a turn 1 shaman and you should be fine. Forcing us to waste a removal spell on a shaman is really annoying.
Slaughter games is usually not the best thing since i side out 2 unburial rites every time against jund, and so does everyone that plays the deck in my meta. Simply put, naming thragtusk with your slaughter games is probably the most detrimental thing to do right next to the turn 1 shaman. Grafdigger's cage has never impacted me since it does nothing to my graveyard permanently unlike rest in peace.
I really have no way to deal with that deck next to including ultimate price which i cant seem to find room for. With that being said though that is an absolute perfect hand for them.
Selesnya Charm was something I didnt even consider but it makes sense and I will probably test it at FNM this week.
Ok, so Gisela, Blade of Goldnight is an absolute powerhouse, and I cannot fathom why she isn't being played in most the frites lists. Not only does she make all of their big bad monsters seem very cute she puts your opponent on a two turn clock. If you mix this card with Craterhoof Behemoth and attack without a response from the poor guy or gal sitting across the table they are simply dead.
vs Zombies they simply have a lack of answers for her. They have sever the bloodline, murder, tragic slip(if the morbid triggers), and in the Rakdos version they have dreadbore.
She is one of the fastest win conditions I could find, and has taken me on a 10-1 near flawless run in the past couple of weeks.
However I could be totally wrong, so what do you guys think? Is she as good as I think she is? Or am I being blinded by the coolness of this card? If you haven't tested with this card it is highly recommended.
Leeched images removed. ~parinoid
4 Temple Garden
4 Blood Crypt
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Sunpetal Grove
3 Rootbound Crag
3 Clifftop Retreat
2 Woodland Cemtery
Creatures
4 Thragtusk
3 Centaur Healer
2 Angel of Serenity
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
2 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
4 Mulch
4 Grisly Salvage
4 Faithless Looting
4 Unburial Rites
3 Lingering Souls
2 Rolling Temblor (Amazing Card)
2 Dreadbore
1 Golgari Charm
Sideborad
3 Rakdos Charm
2 Angel of Serenity
2 Sever the Bloodline
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Crushing Vines
2 Rhox Faithmender
1 Griselbrand
1 Drogskol Reaver
Grand Prix Trial - 5 Rounds
Round 1 vs Bant Control
First game of most matches is usually a breeze for us, and this was no different. In the second game I playes an unburial rites and Gisela hit the field with a Craterhoof and another unburial rites in the yard. He sphered my Gisela, which was fine since I was gripping a ray of revelation and a golgari charm. He tapped out for Thragtusk and I rayed his sphere. That was match.
SB: -3 Centaur Healer -1 Lingering Souls
+2 Sever the Bloodline +2 Ray of Revelation
Round 2 vs R/W/B Controlly Deck Thing
If I remember correctly he casted zeolous conscripts to take an angel of serenity and that was the only spel cast. Needless to say. Game 1 was a
breeze. In game 2 he played a Sorin, Lord of Innistrad and casted a couple of Lingering Souls but that was no match for a Griselbrand and a couple of Angel's of Serenity.
SB: -2 Gisela (If I see Zeolous Conscripts Gisela comes out without a doubt.)
+1 Drogskol Reaver +1 Griselbrand
I wasn't really sure what was happening so I wasnt to sure about the boarding, but it worked out so I was pleased.
Round 3 vs Golgari Zombies
He kept a one-lander, and applied alot of board pressure with 3 Diregraf Ghouls and a lotleth troll. Luckily, rolling temblor saved the day, and he didn't have an answer for Gisela. I flooded out game 2 and got destroyed by 3 Geralf's Messengers. In game 3 he started out strong with 2 Gravecrawlers and Messenger, however after blocking with a couple of souls, a rolling temblor and a Rakdos Charm ruined his board presence. I proceeded to play 2 lingering souls and flash 1 back. He flooded out and I played a Craterhoof. That is all.
SB: -2 Centaur Healer(I know what you are thinking, but Rhox Faithmender replaced this guy.) -1 Lingering Souls -2 Dreadbore -1 Golgari Charm
+2 Rhox Faithmender +2 Sever the BLoodline +2 Rakdos Charm
Rounds 4&5 I just drew into the Top 8.
1st Match vs U/W Control
Ugh, that deck is the grindiest thing to play against, but I prevailed with the HOOF in both games.
SB: -3 Centaur Healer -2 Rolling Temblor
+2 Ray of Revelation +2 Sever the Bloodline +1 Rakdos Charm
2nd Match vs Rakdos Zombies
This is where I meet my demise via Blood Artist and a pair of both messengers and gravecrawlers. He simply had the best imaginable hand and drew like a boss. I happened to be friends with the guy, and he told me that if it wasn't for pure luck there was no way he should have won. To be honest he is just a good player, and I got bested. In game 2 I romped his face with a turn 4 Gisela and a turn 5 craterhoof. In game 3 he had enough Ultimate prices to deal with a thragtusk, the beast token, and an angel of serenity.
SB: -1 Centaur Healer -3 Lingering Souls -1 Golgari Charm
+2 Rhox Faithmender +3 Rakdos Charm (Why I didn't side in Severs, I'll never know.)
I finished 4th overall out of around 25 or so people(not a good turn out). The deck ran near flawlessly, and I made very few play errors besides a couple of badly kept hands, and misplayed turn 1 lands. I have come to find that Gisela is my favorite card in the deck, and i don't understand why she isn't being played more. Rolling Temblor is a must have as is dreadbore. I plan to continue to play this deck and continue to report my results to this forum.
Round 1: vs U/W Delver 1-2
Game 1: Started out great, turn 1 Delver, no flip, turn 2 pike, turn 3 Miracle wrath and flip delver equip pike and continued to smash face.
Game 2: He turned 3 sword of war and peace with a flipped Delver out...nothing else to be said.
Game 3: It happened again.
Round 2: vs Naya Pod
Game 1: Dead Draws, Dead Draws Dead Draws....I have come to find that this deck does this alot, since the rest of my matches went about the same way so there is no need to explain it. I have unfortunately abandoned this deck and turn to RUG Delver in standard. I will post my decklist for it soon.
Thanks alot bro!
-2 Think Twice
-3 Grim Lavamancer
-2 Koth
-1 devastation tide
-3 Vapor Snag (didn't help)
-1 Evolving Wilds
+2 Faithless Looting
+4 Ponder
+2 Invisible Stalker
+3 Stormblood Beserker
+1 Devil's Play(End Game)
+1 Mountain
I dont know what I was thinking but I just derped out on ponder.
As for invisible stalker...he is a monstrosity in here. As is the berserker.
I do recover from tide very fast since the only thing i usually have on the field is a Delver. I made Tezzeret cry when he had to discard 5 cards haha.
I tried Chandra and she is just ok..I determined that nothing in the deck deserves a lost spot for her.
As for changing my win-con to burn...I would have to drop all the blue and make big red. Where that would take away my fun in masteries and tides. However if you would like to expand and give me options I would be more than happy to try it out.
ThAnk you everybody for the responses and keep em coming I could always use help.
I just got home so here is my new decklist....it works over 9000 times better...
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Vexing Devil
3 Stormblood Berserker
2 Invisible Stalker
Instants & Sorceries
4 Temporal Mastery
4 Mana Leak
4 Ponder
2 Devastation Tide
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Faithless Looting
4 Thunderous Wrath
1 Devil's Play
2 Runechanter's Pike
Lands
2 Desolate Lighthouse
9 Island
4 Sulfur Falls
7 Mountain
I currently don't have the deck in front of me, but that is the list as far as I know and what I will be running tomorrow. I wanted to add +2 Bonfire, but that is also pricey, so I kept it at two. Thanks again for all the advice...I will post my results from FNM tomorrow.
Here's my current list.(Very open to criticism.)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Vexing Devil
3 Grim Lavamancer
Instants & Sorceries
4 Temporal Mastery (Yup 4)
4 Mana Leak
3 Devastation Tide (<TROLL)
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Think Twice
3 Vapor Snag
4 Thunderous Wrath
2 Koth of the Hammer (Hold back your laughter)
2 Runechanter's Pike
Lands
2 Desolate Lighthouse
9 Island
4 Sulfur Falls
7 Mountain
1 Evolving Wilds[Just in Case]
So the goal of the deck, as is every other delver deck, is to put dat Pike/Sword on Delver and continue to pound your sadfaced opponents face. However, you haven't played delver until you flip delver with a Thunderous Wrath.
Time to explain myself...
We will begin with creatures.
Delver of Secrets
Obvious reasons. He is a mean bug.
Vexing Devil
Oh my God. This card is amazing. Dealing 4 damage on turn 2 or 3(Hopefully not turn 1, because you want to turn 1 Delver or ponder), leaving a 4/3 threat on the field, or forcing them to waste a kill spell on a 1 mana creature is great. Wouldn't take it out for anything.
Grim Lavamancer
Ok I couldn't decide between this dude or Snapcaster Mager, but after playtesting lavamancer gets the game done faster so he got the spot. You spit cards into the graveyard and give him much ammo. 2 Damage is ALOT of damage, especially when it happens every turn.
As for dem instants and sorceries...
Temporal Mastery
Haha yea it's a 4 of, haha and yea I take an extra turn more often :P. Even if the only thing I get to do is lay down an extra land, I still get to lay down an extra land. This card is also super good with Koth.
Mana Leak
Counterspell...yup.
Devestation Tide
I don't enjoy pissing my meta off, but I do so this card deserves a few spots in my deck. This cards also kick some artifacts right in the face.
Bonfire of the Damned
I made a miracle deck, so uhhhhh yea.
Think Twice
The only reason I have any card draw besides ponder is to trigger Miracles on their turn. I wanted to put Thought Scour in but the flashback has actually come in handy during playtesting. I couldn't decide between the two and if you guys could provide me with some help it would be much appreciated.
Vapor Snag
This card is awesome, as noted in other Delver decks. I couldn't decide betweeen the snag or Pillar of Flame. I enjoy the instant speed and the wider range of targets for vapor snag, but Pillar of Flame provides for early PERMANENT removal. Once again, some help would be much appreciated.
Thunderous Wrath
5 Damage is 1/4 of their life. That is all.
The "Other Stuff"...
Koth of the Hammer
I know!!!! He is Koth! He is not played! But he does do awesome things for this deck. He adds mana to hard cast my miracles and he makes my mountains into 4/4's. Uhhhhh yea I think I like it. His ultimate doesn't do much for me, but overall his +1 and -2 help ALOT.
Runechanter's Pike
This card adds a ton of damage. As you all should know Delver with da pike is massacre. The only problem is that I lose power with Grim Lavamancer, therefore I've been stealin some swords from my U/W Delver deck to use when I can, but for the time being it works pretty well.
Desolate Lighthouse
Loothouse...obvious reasons. Activates miracles during your opponents turn and sifts through all dat garbage floating on top of your deck.
Evolving Wilds
Thinking about cutting this, but it helps out sometimes. IT's a meh whatever kind of card.
Disadvantages.
Negate. It owns me.
A big disadvantage of this deck is holding miracles in your hand. I can usually stall with leaks and snags until late games, but it does pose a big problem. I have consider adding Reforge the Soul to help, but the same thing usually happens.
Another drawback is heavy removal decks. My dudes usually die. Vexing Devil doesn't apply board pressure and Delver has a target on his head. Lavamancer hangs around long enough until I have to block a Geist of Saint Traft.
I am really open to new ideas and hope for tons of criticism. Please don't just spam with useless post like "this deck sucks" or whatever. I know this isn't the best deck, but I play U/W Delver and wanted a break from the usual so I made a fun deck to use at FNM. I've been working on a side board, but I didn't even think it was worth posting. If you guys have ideas for it please post a reply.
*Note This is my first post so I apologize for any mistypes or mess ups with the card/deck tags, and the format might be a bit junky but it should be legible. Go easy on me.