I understand that lantern control is a more viable way to get this effect, and I do plan on playing that once I get all the pieces. However, the weirding is still one of my all time favorite cards, and I'm not above using a brew if it means I can play it, even if it does end up a bit less successful. I fully recognize that the weirding will probably never be anything better than t2 at best
Right now I'm thinking using things like the aformentioned bloodchief ascension and other blue filtering effects (things like anticipate perhaps?). I'll post a list when I have one.
I think you'll end of frustrated in this process. Trust me, I've been there with this card. Tier 2 is a perfectly fine deck that you can expect a certain winning % in small tournaments but Wierding is far from that. In fact in all the shells I've used it in, dedicated to abuse it, Wierding ended up being one of the worst draws and in the end I couldn't decide whether I wanted to draw at all. It can't get any worse for a card than that, when you build around it and it still ends up being one of the worst cards in the deck.
If you want something to play at the kitchen table, then it's fine, but if you want to do more than that then I'm afraid you'll just end up in frustration.
I've also been simply playtesting this deck online and against a wide variety of Modern decks I've managed to lose maybe like 2-3 matches out of 20+ played. This deck just feels like it's on another level compared to the rest of the metagame right now. I'm actually going to be gravely disappointed if multiple copies of this deck don't show up in the Pro Tour Oath of the Gatewatch top 8.
I've been really skeptical of the Eldrazi decks, but damn that list looks smooth. Basically an Abzan deck that can go over the top. It looks like it gets the best from both worlds (both worlds being the disruption of Abzan and the inevitability of Tron). I'm trying this out.
It was one of my pet cards for while, but it performed terribly in all the shells I tried it in. It has some of the same problems as Shared Fate has: it doesn't deal with the board or the cards your opponent has already drawn and in addition to Shared Fate, it require additional setting up. It's just too much work and being a 4 mana spell it also comes down too late to have the desired effect compared to Lantern that can start their lock on turn 2 without much work.
I just finished watching VSL where LSV played around with Uba Mask (+ Bazaar of Baghdad and Ensnaring Bridge) . It made me think about processors. If there's a playable processor that processes repeatedly at instant speed in Oath, it's time to brew with the mask!
Endbringer reminds me of when a bunch of people hyped Mercurial Chemister in Standard (obviously not Modern since it dies to Bolt). The card looked pretty strong back then, but didn't end up seeing any play (not even in sideboards).
Endbringer is obviously stronger but I still get that "meh" feeling. It's basically a Consecrated Sphinx where you have to tap out for the effect plus your opponent has a larger window to interact with it before it gives you value. The fact that it combos with Eye of Ugin and Eldrazi Temple is nice, but no "real" decks play the Temple and Mono Blue Tron doesn't play Eye. Pinging and tapping is nice too, but I still think that Sphinx overall is a stronger card.
The Goblin almost feels like a beefed up Bloodbraid Elf. When I looked at it, I thought it was 1 mana too expensive, since 4cmc seems to be the highest most decks will end up in. But then I thought that him on 4cmc would be completely broken. And then people started talking about Suspend and Splitcards (I did't even think about that).
Boom//Bust seems like the best way to abuse him. First of all, it has a natural way to get into the GY (Stone Rain 1 of his lands with Boom and then cast Bust from the grave while you put a 4/4 on the table to pressure him). And second of all, this used to be a thing with Bloodbraid Elf back in the days both in Zoo and in Jund. Breaking//Entering is cute too but if you're reanimating a fatty you're not really making good use of the goblin's 4/4 body.
But no matter what, you're getting plenty of value for 5 mana. The only question is what deck can afford to run a (or several) 5cmc spells?
Soo Mina and Denn. It's an ally but I think that's a trap. If it's gonna do anything it's gonna be as a pseudo Oracle of Mul Daya that also happens to be a decent beater. Could a creature heavy RG Valakut deck want it?
to me Dark Depths seems more like inevitability engine rather than fast combo, but we really don't want more inevitability in the format, why? because it just leads people into playing the fastest linear deck out there to beat it
I don't agree with a Dark Depths unban either but acting devil's advocate you could argue that Tron has inevitability too and is a lot harder to interact with. As far as the slower more resilient Depths/Stage combo go. It is slow enough that you for instance can 3 for 1 your opponent with Cryptic (Depths + Stage + Draw), you can shut down the entire combo with Needle, Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge or you can simply Path the token (and there's probably a lot of other lesser known options). You can only beat Tron by outracing them I feel. There's no card that truly "gets them" outside of maybe Crumble to Dust, but that's usually unreliable as a stand alone card.
But on the other hand if both Tron and the Depths/Stage existed in the format, it would put a dent in Jund's existence which again would let more linear decks into the meta. But I don't necessarily think that it's because the combo is too strong for the format as it is that we already have a deck that performs that role in Tron.
I think he's just talking about Stage/Depths and not Hexmage, though could be wrong.
And regarding your earlier point that the turn 3 kill (Depths, Urborg, Hexmage) requires 3 specific cards, that's true. But all 3 would be 4-ofs in the deck, making that scenario much more realistic than you might think. It most certainly wouldn't be every match or anywhere close, but it would be more often than "magic christmasland."
It was me who was making that point and I agree (not sure about the 4x Urborgs though). I was only disagreeing with the (in my opinion) hyperbolic statements aka "you need to interact T1 or else you die", which is far from the case I believe. Yes, a T3 kill will happen once in a while, but it's far from the norm.
Huh, here is my out-of-the-box suggestion, that would certainly shake things up in the PT:
(and I personally don't find it, never did, never will, more broken than Urzatron Assemble)
Ban Bloom, Unban Dark Depths.
You replace a big mana strategy with another, reintroduce competitive loam decks to the format, give control decks, or control/tempo shells, new tools to fight and to brew and most importantly: doesn't fit into Twin. (and for the GBx shell to run it needs to be a loam-heavy GBx list, which in turn diversifies the midrange field).
Well, it can win on turn three without answers, that's perhaps THE problem.
Dark Depths is NEVER coming off the ban list. Thespian stage + Dark Depths is a degenerate combo that ONLY blood moon/ghost quarters interacts with.
Though I guess you need a chump blocker if Lilly and Ugin should count
Liliana, Ugin, Cryptic, ensnaring bridge don't do anything because you can get the combo turn 2. Cryptic is WAY to slow. Do you really want to be in a meta where if you don't have a turn 1 answer you lose the game?
I'm not advocating an unban per say, just keeping the conversation honest and hyperbole free. You can't have it both ways though: talking about how nothing interacts with Stage and then talk about a turn 2 combo all of a sudden (Stage is a T4 kill with Urborg and T5 without it. Not exactly the fastest combo in he world). If you put Hexmage into the equation then suddenly a lot more interacts with it (discard and counters) + a turn 2 Marit Lage (into a t3 kill) is a 3 card combo (Urborg + Hexmage + Depths) that is probably less likeley than killing with Prime Time, Glistener Elf etc.
Huh, here is my out-of-the-box suggestion, that would certainly shake things up in the PT:
(and I personally don't find it, never did, never will, more broken than Urzatron Assemble)
Ban Bloom, Unban Dark Depths.
You replace a big mana strategy with another, reintroduce competitive loam decks to the format, give control decks, or control/tempo shells, new tools to fight and to brew and most importantly: doesn't fit into Twin. (and for the GBx shell to run it needs to be a loam-heavy GBx list, which in turn diversifies the midrange field).
Well, it can win on turn three without answers, that's perhaps THE problem.
Dark Depths is NEVER coming off the ban list. Thespian stage + Dark Depths is a degenerate combo that ONLY blood moon/ghost quarters interacts with.
Why do you care whether his Goyf gets countered if you're putting a fatty on the table (like Emmy)? Shouldn't you just focus on simply getting the fatty out there (Through the Breach and friends). 2 for 1'ning your opponent is nice, but this is not a scenario where durdle advantages matter. Either you resolve your fatty and win or you don't and you lose.
I remember the card being brought up in Standard as a way of cheating Worldspine Wurm into play. This was only because it was the only way of cheating fatties into play. Needless to say it was pretty bad there also.
If you're in he market for 2 for 1'ning your opponent, just play Summoning Trap. Not only are you 2 for 1'ning your opponent (which isn't the main reason for running it) but you're also getting an insane tempo advantage (which is) + you can hard cast it without relying on your opponent to cast certain spells into your open mana.
Dramatic entrance by itself has been under used in modern for a long time. it plus painter's servant could be a combo if the right creature came along.
Breach is 1 turn faster than Entrance and 2 turns faster than hard casting Bellower. Entrance is only 1 turn faster than hard casting Bellower, which seems hardly worth a card EDIT: waith that's not true since the Goblin gives the whole team haste. Nevermind then
I think you'll end of frustrated in this process. Trust me, I've been there with this card. Tier 2 is a perfectly fine deck that you can expect a certain winning % in small tournaments but Wierding is far from that. In fact in all the shells I've used it in, dedicated to abuse it, Wierding ended up being one of the worst draws and in the end I couldn't decide whether I wanted to draw at all. It can't get any worse for a card than that, when you build around it and it still ends up being one of the worst cards in the deck.
If you want something to play at the kitchen table, then it's fine, but if you want to do more than that then I'm afraid you'll just end up in frustration.
I've been really skeptical of the Eldrazi decks, but damn that list looks smooth. Basically an Abzan deck that can go over the top. It looks like it gets the best from both worlds (both worlds being the disruption of Abzan and the inevitability of Tron). I'm trying this out.
It was one of my pet cards for while, but it performed terribly in all the shells I tried it in. It has some of the same problems as Shared Fate has: it doesn't deal with the board or the cards your opponent has already drawn and in addition to Shared Fate, it require additional setting up. It's just too much work and being a 4 mana spell it also comes down too late to have the desired effect compared to Lantern that can start their lock on turn 2 without much work.
4 Necrotic Ooze
2 Gigantomancer
3 Griselbrand
2 Borborygmos Enraged
4 Tormenting Voice
3 Raven's Crime
4 Life from the Loam
4 Lingering Souls
3 Unburial Rites
23 other lands
Thoughts of Ruin
Endbringer is obviously stronger but I still get that "meh" feeling. It's basically a Consecrated Sphinx where you have to tap out for the effect plus your opponent has a larger window to interact with it before it gives you value. The fact that it combos with Eye of Ugin and Eldrazi Temple is nice, but no "real" decks play the Temple and Mono Blue Tron doesn't play Eye. Pinging and tapping is nice too, but I still think that Sphinx overall is a stronger card.
Boom//Bust seems like the best way to abuse him. First of all, it has a natural way to get into the GY (Stone Rain 1 of his lands with Boom and then cast Bust from the grave while you put a 4/4 on the table to pressure him). And second of all, this used to be a thing with Bloodbraid Elf back in the days both in Zoo and in Jund. Breaking//Entering is cute too but if you're reanimating a fatty you're not really making good use of the goblin's 4/4 body.
But no matter what, you're getting plenty of value for 5 mana. The only question is what deck can afford to run a (or several) 5cmc spells?
They have access to Jund Charm though.
I don't agree with a Dark Depths unban either but acting devil's advocate you could argue that Tron has inevitability too and is a lot harder to interact with. As far as the slower more resilient Depths/Stage combo go. It is slow enough that you for instance can 3 for 1 your opponent with Cryptic (Depths + Stage + Draw), you can shut down the entire combo with Needle, Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge or you can simply Path the token (and there's probably a lot of other lesser known options). You can only beat Tron by outracing them I feel. There's no card that truly "gets them" outside of maybe Crumble to Dust, but that's usually unreliable as a stand alone card.
But on the other hand if both Tron and the Depths/Stage existed in the format, it would put a dent in Jund's existence which again would let more linear decks into the meta. But I don't necessarily think that it's because the combo is too strong for the format as it is that we already have a deck that performs that role in Tron.
It was me who was making that point and I agree (not sure about the 4x Urborgs though). I was only disagreeing with the (in my opinion) hyperbolic statements aka "you need to interact T1 or else you die", which is far from the case I believe. Yes, a T3 kill will happen once in a while, but it's far from the norm.
I'm not advocating an unban per say, just keeping the conversation honest and hyperbole free. You can't have it both ways though: talking about how nothing interacts with Stage and then talk about a turn 2 combo all of a sudden (Stage is a T4 kill with Urborg and T5 without it. Not exactly the fastest combo in he world). If you put Hexmage into the equation then suddenly a lot more interacts with it (discard and counters) + a turn 2 Marit Lage (into a t3 kill) is a 3 card combo (Urborg + Hexmage + Depths) that is probably less likeley than killing with Prime Time, Glistener Elf etc.
...aaand Pithing Needle, Liliana, Path to Exile, Vapor Snag, Cryptic Command, Karn, Ugin, Ensnaring Bridge,..
Though I guess you need a chump blocker if Lilly and Ugin should count
I remember the card being brought up in Standard as a way of cheating Worldspine Wurm into play. This was only because it was the only way of cheating fatties into play. Needless to say it was pretty bad there also.
If you're in he market for 2 for 1'ning your opponent, just play Summoning Trap. Not only are you 2 for 1'ning your opponent (which isn't the main reason for running it) but you're also getting an insane tempo advantage (which is) + you can hard cast it without relying on your opponent to cast certain spells into your open mana.
Or just
1 Worldspine Wurm
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Through the Breach
Breach is 1 turn faster than Entrance and 2 turns faster than hard casting Bellower. Entrance is only 1 turn faster than hard casting Bellower, which seems hardly worth a card EDIT: waith that's not true since the Goblin gives the whole team haste. Nevermind then