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  • posted a message on How to beat degenerative control?
    Quote from Curby »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIP6EwqMEoE&feature=youtu.be&t=17s

    Turns out the word degenerate is used to describe combo decks, not control decks. To drive the point home, it would more likely describe your deck than the decks you're having trouble with. The word is thrown about pretty wildly in general, but generally describes decks that don't play "real" Magic. A Legacy/Vintage dredge deck would be the epitome of a "not real Magic" deck.

    More discussion along these lines: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/3a73w7/what_makes_a_combo_degenerate/

    Ok, let's actually address your concern.

    If you're counting on a combo finish, you might consider other decks that do similar things, try them (proxy/paper/cockatrice/etc.) to see how they work and why they are better against different archetypes. Decks like Affinity have more speed, and while they have a Atog/Fling finish, their creatures are MUCH more capable of doing the job themselves.

    Even further along the combo spectrum is something like Bogles or Infect, which sometimes uses cards like Gitaxian Probe and Apostle's Blessing to ensure the coast is clear and protect combo pieces.

    You said this was a budget deck so I imagine your resources might be constrained, but borrowing/trying/proxying other similar decks (attack-based combo) is still possible, and would help illustrate how other decks handle opposing strategies like control.

    Definition of degenerative: characterized by progressive, often irreversible deterioration
    Here are some more definitions that fit the description of the style of play of pauper control.

    The game starts with three or four slow turns on their end of playing dork lands to gain life and playing removal on anything that hits the board. Then they play counters and creatures with discard effects to lock you out of the board and then follow up with fat creatures like gurmag angler along with flashback removal to wreck you on card advantage.


    Turns out you really have no clue what you are talking about. My deck is not a combo deck, it is an alternative more aggro based burn deck. Sometimes a combo finish works but is not how I usually win. I mentioned it because I find it fun to fling big creatures out of nowhere as I don't often anticipate the move myself, I'll make it a point to not point out the odd synergy that some cards in my deck have the next time I ask for help. Considering this style of B/UB is 60-70% of the decks on MTGO this is quite "un-fun" and before you decide to try and complain some more about my "Combo deck" this was an issue two years ago when I first bought MTGO and bought a landfall pauper deck. I could not beat the deck with an aggro based deck that benefits from land triggers and in fact is the reason I stopped playing MTGO the first time.
    Posted in: Paper Pauper and Peasant
  • posted a message on How to beat degenerative control?
    Quote from Curby »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIP6EwqMEoE&feature=youtu.be&t=17s

    Turns out the word degenerate is used to describe combo decks, not control decks. To drive the point home, it would more likely describe your deck than the decks you're having trouble with. The word is thrown about pretty wildly in general, but generally describes decks that don't play "real" Magic. A Legacy/Vintage dredge deck would be the epitome of a "not real Magic" deck.

    More discussion along these lines: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/3a73w7/what_makes_a_combo_degenerate/

    Ok, let's actually address your concern.

    If you're counting on a combo finish, you might consider other decks that do similar things, try them (proxy/paper/cockatrice/etc.) to see how they work and why they are better against different archetypes. Decks like Affinity have more speed, and while they have a Atog/Fling finish, their creatures are MUCH more capable of doing the job themselves.

    Even further along the combo spectrum is something like Bogles or Infect, which sometimes uses cards like Gitaxian Probe and Apostle's Blessing to ensure the coast is clear and protect combo pieces.

    You said this was a budget deck so I imagine your resources might be constrained, but borrowing/trying/proxying other similar decks (attack-based combo) is still possible, and would help illustrate how other decks handle opposing strategies like control.

    Definition of degenerative: characterized by progressive, often irreversible deterioration

    The game starts with three or four slow turns on their end of playing dork lands to gain life and playing removal on anything that hits the board. Then they play counters and creatures with discard effects to lock you out of the board and then follow up with fat creatures like gurmag angler along with flashback removal to wreck you on card advantage.


    Turns out you really have no clue what you are talking about. My deck is not a combo deck, it is an alternative more aggro based burn deck. Sometimes a combo finish works but is not how I usually win. I mentioned it because I find it fun to fling big creatures out of nowhere as I don't often anticipate the move myself, I'll make it a point to not point out the odd synergy that some cards in my deck have the next time I ask for help. Considering this style of B/UB is 60-70% of the decks on MTGO this is quite "un-fun" and before you decide to try and complain some more about my "Combo deck" this was an issue two years ago when I first bought MTGO and bought a landfall pauper deck. I could not beat the deck with an aggro based deck that benefits from land triggers and in fact is the reason I stopped playing MTGO the first time.
    Posted in: Paper Pauper and Peasant
  • posted a message on Modern Masters 2017 March 17
    I like a lot of the cards you have listed but I really would like to see Linvala, keeper of silence instead of Archangel of thune. Linvala has been stuck at 40 forever and I think a mythic reprint would bring her down to 15.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Modern Masters 2017 March 17
    Quote from Joban8 »
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Quote from Ryperior74 »
    I just hope the reprints are good starting Monday.


    What makes me sad is that the box pre-order price likely wont survive once the spoilers start. I think 150-180 is a better price point for modern masters than an MSRP 240. The fact is that times are changing and the way most TCGs are being printed now are player oriented rather than collector oriented. Given the changes in print run size we are heading towards that age in magic.


    Still pulling baseless statements out your ass, I see.


    This feels really uncalled for and provides nothing to the conversation. You could have said that in an educated way that actually disputes his claim or to argue against him. I scrolled back and I have no idea where this hostility comes from.


    On a different note what are the odds that wizards does the second print run jam with mm2017? I have heard a lot of speculation on a large print run but also heard people say their LGS' are being limited on orders.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from Aazadan »
    Quote from mapccu »
    Mark rose water also recently tweeted regarding frontier that if they were to choose a starting point, it would have been after khans to remove fetches from th format. They are reluctant to print them in standard I think because of the price barrier and shuffling. Printing them here gives us another reprint off the back end of the expedition cycle to alleviate market pressure while avoiding the standard 2 year thing.

    Also, with rumors of a substantially larger print run, something like this makes sense. I think read somewhere in the spec forum for mm17 someone heard 5x the mm15 print run? Maybe baseless spec but it all adds up.

    I can see it happening. It would drive the prices of the chase cards down, but the ev of the packs is going to be kinda squirrelly if this is true unless we get some pretty bad rares.


    If it's 5x the print run, I wonder whose getting the extra cards. I talked to our local store about this and they said they were limited to 6 cases.


    This makes me wonder if they(being wizards) are going to hold up sealed product for a second wave like in eternal masters.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Presence of Gond!
    Ha! I just pulled my presence of gond pauper deck out last night and was messing around with it. I saw your post's title under the recent topics category and thought this must be pauper. I went a slightly different route than you however. I play a much more combo deck, essentially old Melira pod. I crammed the deck full of combo pieces that can work in multiple combos. With the amount of control that runs around the format I feel it is way to fragile to have 8 combo cards. Lapse of certainty is a great protection and stall card. The other combo with presence of gond would be devoted druid and ivy lane denizen. Druid also acts as ramp when you want it.
    Posted in: Paper Pauper and Peasant
  • posted a message on Modern Masters 2017 March 17
    How would you guys feel about Omniscience being in the set as a blue mythic?

    Considering I don't think it sees play anywhere in modern and would be completely dead in sealed I would say not interested.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Most likely, I imagine it would be about 1-2 per box if khans was 2-3. Assuming the rest of the set is near the value of mm2015 on release then definitely, but honestly there is too much risk in that for my interest. There is no 100% on fetchs being in the set and it's putting money into the speculation as opposed to selling off fetchs which would be taking your money out of it. There is also a great chance to get hosed 1. By bad luck in the boxes 2. The print run being through the roof 3. The seller decides to back out if the boxes go up in value. If you want the boxes for drafting get them while they're really cheap but I wouldn't get them for the cracking packs for fun, yet again I usually buy singles anyway so who I am to tell you what to do.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from Oopssorryy »
    Quote from whocansay »
    Zen fetches in MM3. Sell now.


    Proof?


    Considering how long whocansay has been on the forum I doubt that he would pull something like that out of nowhere. I understand everyone's diehard skepticism when it's a user who has no history on the site but I really doubt people who have been in the thread have any reason to try and ruin other peoples days (although it wouldn't surprise me).

    Looking at what he said it is in your best interest to sell your fetches if you can take what he says with any sort of credibility (which I do, its a personal preference though). It's really reverse speculating, if you sell them now without seeing evidence and they don't get reprinted I HIGHLY doubt they will go up because besides the half-joking comments about fetches being in MM3 nobody (or very few people) would have been waiting to buy fetches until after the MM3 release. If he provides evidence, that most likely means that the evidence is out there for other people to see and that panic selling will start immediately. Considering the recent comments about fetches not being in standard it really would not surprise me to see them in the set. I honestly see too much downside if they get reprinted to the upside if they don't get reprinted. If you are actively playing the fetches than keep them for sure because in my opinion you always put your decks and cards that you are actively playing with at the highest priority. However if you are holding them for future deckbuilding or they are in a deck you don't use I would sell them off and buy them back after MM3. Worst case scenario you lose a bit on selling fees and shipping. Best case scenario you get about $30-$40 per fetch.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on How to beat degenerative control?


    Like I mentioned this is just all free stuff. I was playing it to get to used to MTGO. Basically I run out chip damage with small goblins, then with a skirk prospector out I traitous blood your biggest creature and attack for all then fling it in your face. The other option is litter the board, heartlash cinder, falter, attack, fling. Font of Ire, spikeshot goblin, and skinbrand goblin are all kind of filler spots. I would be open to another color if it could help me get some card advantage going.
    Posted in: Paper Pauper and Peasant
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    So I just typed up a long thought out response and I learned that this new mouse has wonderfully placed back/forward buttons on the side. Mad

    I will try and retyped this with my train of thought now derailed.

    I do not disagree that snapcaster is a powerful card, however just because he is powerful does not necessarily mean he should have a high price. Essentially modern has seen a decrease in blue decks over the past few months due to the increase in super fast decks such as zoo, shadow, dredge, and infect. Blue is primarily a control/combo color and snapcaster definitely has a place in these decks. In the past snapcaster had a very high price due to the popular decks that were in the format such as twin and UW delver which both saw bans that essentially killed the decks. The older modern also saw a lot more control variants including simic, American, and grixis. Grixis is really the only notable control deck in the format right now with American being much less popular than it was and simic being almost non-existent. Snapcaster still sees play in almost every single blue deck in modern, it's just that blue decks are not nearly as powerful in the format as they were in the year or so coming off of his time in standard. Most blue decks are fringe with a few being tier 1/2 and even in some of those he doesn't see consistent play (hit or miss in scapeshift(combo), not in merfolk(aggro)). He can be compared to cryptic command, which is arguably the best and most versatile spell for a control deck in modern. Cryptic has been creeping down over the past couple of months, not because it isn't good, but because control isn't the powerful type it has been in the past. Planeswalkers are also very powerful cards, but really none of them see too much play in modern because they can't be protected very well in the format. This does not mean they are not powerful, it just means they are not good in the format. I really don't thin can say he is underpriced, his price is determined by demand which mostly comes from modern. The statement that he underpriced gives the impression that there is an implication of a standard price for powerful cards which isn't the case. It also feels like saying that his price is somehow not at or near the equilibrium of supply and demand. If you view his price long-term and you feel that control will come back, or at least start seeing tier 1 decks again then I think that someone could say in their opinion he is underpriced but context is important. I can see him ending up hovering around 30-40 like bob. Both are the most played cards in their colors and they both are staples in certain archetypes (Bob-BGx, Snap-Ux control).
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on How to beat degenerative control?
    So I have been playing on mtgo recently with some jank pauper cards that I got for free from bots. I a playing a mono-red goblin fling deck with traitorous instinct. It's super fun and holds its own against creature based decks, but it really gets wrecked against the grixis/mono black decks that play creature sacrifice and chittering rats to stall the heck out of the game. These decks are so degenerative and un-fun to play against because they just stall me out then counter my stuff and chittering rats makes me put cards on top of my library so I can never topdeck an answer. Is there any ways to beat these decks for mon-red? Or to counter the dang creature abilities that give them card advantage? Thanks
    Posted in: Paper Pauper and Peasant
  • posted a message on Dredgevine
    Quote from nutzbox »
    does anyone feel the all-in dredge (6 or more dredger) approach for dredgevine to be more inconsistent nowadays? i keep getting bad hands and mulligans are also terrible, the deck really feels clunky.
    I've always kind of had this feeling about all-in. I feel like a lot of times you can hit a wall. In the past I never had issues with it, however the deck was also a lot slower. I feel the dredgevine in general is either a more mid-range aggro style deck that can play recursion and removal to usually outlast most opponents (still a fast deck, just not as aggressive with t1/2) or what it has developed into now where our deck is extremely aggressive outplaying almost all decks, but also very fragile.

    I have been meaning to post for awhile now but have been busy. I got to play an infect deck a couple of times last week, and considering they used to be my worst matchup I really enjoyed it. I got to test the updated deck to it's full extent by actually playing faster than infect(!) and I also got to try out the rampager, which I also really liked. However I lost my third game by sputtering out, a lot of cards are great enablers but completely dead in the yard, as I often go through 20ish cards and hit one or two 2/1 creatures to bring back with a bunch of lands/red enablers that do nothing. Faithless looting does have flashback but with our new style of deck I feel that the three mana really is too much for the pace we are trying to play. With no removal and trying to flashback on turn three feels desperate. I kind of want to try the old deck style with a slower approach but update it with amalgam and maybe neonates. I also would like to try and put some dredge cards back in to get full value out of my graveyard as well as make my deck more resilient to grafdiggers cage/relic.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Grab Death's shadow pieces if you want them. The deck is having a great showing at GP Vancouver.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Desolater magic does have a tendency to get worked up in his videos but his points usually have some merit, it's that people can't get over their hatred for same random guy on the internet who has no impact on them. Don't watch his videos if you don't like him, you don't need to badmouth every single person you don't agree with. It also really makes your argument seem irrelevant if you can't in any way counter what their saying so you instead call them names.

    Moving back to the topic of WPN stores and Modern Masters I read the link @joban8 posted and I thought it was interesting the way they worded it compared to Plancechase Anthology when it comes to ordering cards. I realize they just have not posted quantities that will be available to different levels possibly including non-wpn.
    However when I was doing some reading on MM2017 I saw that the page specifically mentions "New art on a number of cards." Looking back at MM15 there were hardly any new art cards (I counted two in the first 5 pages of tcg) and although two is a number, I feel like there will be a lot more new art cards. I feel like we can expect new art on Liliana if she is the chase car. Knowing how people love original copies, I can't see lily going much unless we get an eternal masters level of shaft from wizards. Would it be reasonable to pick up normal art versions now in the expectation that they will go up/hold value in the case of a new art reprint?
    Posted in: Modern
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