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  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from ccc1522 »
    The reason you play magic is to play your favorite deck. I domt play magic to play some lame brew. I like playing with my favorite cards and favorite decsk. No One plays with ONLY cheap brews. No kne. Why? Bc cheap brews are not anyones favorite deck. Its that simple.
    That's incredibly narrow minded. I know a lot of people who would rather play fringe decks rather than Tier1 because it brings new styles of play to the format. Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean everyone won't.

    Quote from ccc1522 »
    Secondly, no that is simply not true. Competitive indoor soccer is very cheap, league of legends is cheap, RC plane competitions while costing 100-200$ and thats max price is cheaper, i mean dude i can get a car for the price of a vintage deck. I can get a turbo charger kit for my car for half the price of a legacy deck.
    Competitive indoor soccer? So you are competing at the top level of soccer using an old t-shirt and some thrift store cleats? No, this would be the equivalent of casual kitchen table or local game store. Neither of these require you to spend thousands of dollars on a deck. People who play league competitively spend thousands of dollars on headphones, computers, and various other accessories.

    Quote from ccc1522 »
    sure you dont have to play with that 12,000$ deck. But what if thats my favorite deck? I cant buy it bc of how expensive it is.
    This is like saying "You can drive to work without a Porsche, but what if that's my favorite car? I can't buy it because of how expensive it is." There are plenty of cars that are enjoyable to drive that aren't sports cars. Building your own deck is like adding things to the car you have to make you enjoy it more.

    Quote from ccc1522 »
    No one plays only home brews ppl play the game to play the cards they like and the deck they like. What you say is never the case and simply just not prudent. The point is yes sure theres cheap ways to play but to enjoy it to its fullest meaning playing a deck you like it costs alot.
    There are plenty of people that play home brews and for home brews I mean casual kitchen table play. You can find perfectly competitive inexpensive decks here ON THIS FORUM. Developing competitive has tons of inexpensive decks that play great. I have tried a half dozen various decks off of it that cost me about ~100-~200 in trade.

    Quote from ccc1522 »
    If i cant play with the cards and deck i like than i just wont play. I'm not spending 300$ for a home brew that is straining to be competitive, filled with cards that I don't really like. And ill point out that's $300 for mediocrity. So yes the game is very expensive.
    The deck I play I payed >$300 for and I enjoy it more than any tier 1 decks I've tried.

    The game in itself is really what you make of it. If you feel that you can only enjoy something by spending a lot of money then you're going to struggle enjoying anything in your life, magic or otherwise. The best advice I can give you is to buy the staple cards for the deck over time. Whenever the cards get reprinted pick them up or whenever you have extra money grab a couple of pieces. You won't have your deck overnight but it is fun to build over time and your patience will save you a lot of money. I built my first deck in late high school and bought the core cards that were absolutely necessary to play the deck, then slowly worked on the sideboard and lands as reprints became available. No, in the first month or two you probably won't be winning a majority of your games but you it allows you to get used to playing the deck and by the time you have all the little parts pulled together you will be proficient and knowledgeable about what you are playing.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from ccc1522 »
    Not too mention if we look at the bulk of the game is mostly standard and modern. So if we take an average cost spent by every player each year you will indeed see it is more expensive than say computer gaming, or playing indoor soccer or rc planes etc. all of which are hobbies.

    Mtg is definitely more expensive.


    Can you not play standard or modern without paying a couple hundreds dollars for a deck? It's competitive modern, I'm not nitpicking at All? You are nit picking more than I am. There are plenty of brew worthy decks that are > $300 and easily playable at a competive local level. > $300 beats console and pc on the spot. As for other hobbies pretty much any hobby taken to a competitive level blows magic out of the water. Gaming, sports, even hobbies such as models/model trains.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from Varyag »
    Magic is not inexpensive compared to most other hobbies. People love deluding themselves in this regard.

    If we just look at gaming you can buy a room full of board games for a single modern Magic deck, to say nothing of Legacy or god Forbid vintage. Likewise you could probably buy an entire set of RPG books.

    In terms of video gaming the price of one good Modern deck can set you up with a PC or just about that will be good for several years of gaming as well as being an indispensable tool. The actual cost of games has become a joke in terms of hours vs $ if you're willing to be patient and target the Steam sales.
    With consoles you will start off cheaper with the machine but the added cost of games will eventually turn out to be less profitable than a PC.

    As for TCG's, hearthstone, regardless of what one thinks of it or not is still much much cheaper than magic. It took me the better part of several days to get most of one deck and probably would take me a month of free grinding to craft the rest. 0$ invested. Impossible in MTG.

    So anyone who says Magic isn't hideously expensive compared to other similar interests of its typical target audience is either blind or mad. Please, before you attempt to contradict me, bear in mind I have engaged or am engaged in all of these hobbies along with MTG, so I'm not talking out of my ass. I have a bunch of board games, a middle of the line gaming PC and a shelf full of RPG books, and I'm very well aware how much I paid for them.

    Magic is not golf, horse-riding, big game hunting or whatever other expensive hobby comes to mind. Different audience, different social circles and different level of associated prestige.
    Its a good game, but its not in the same category, nor does it belong there (in fact it is the inverse, often embarassing to mention among those not acquainted with the game) and it is severely overpriced for what it is.


    Magic is extremely inexpensive compared to other hobbies, this not a delusion, it is a fact. People who say otherwise are creating excuses as to why they can't play the game. To play competitive magic it is relatively expensive, but please name a competitive environment that is less expensive and even in a competitive environment the game is not expensive. Board games are nowhere near as utilizable as magic cards so do not even bring that ridiculous argument up. You can brew for hours with a couple of different cards that are interchangeable within your deck, board games are fun for one maybe two hours at a time.

    Magic is perfectly enjoyable outside of the competitive environment
    Quote from Varyag »

    So anyone who says Magic isn't hideously expensive compared to other similar interests of its typical target audience is either blind or mad. Please, before you attempt to contradict me, bear in mind I have engaged or am engaged in all of these hobbies along with MTG, so I'm not talking out of my ass. I have a bunch of board games, a middle of the line gaming PC and a shelf full of RPG books, and I'm very well aware how much I paid for them.

    but despite your broad range of experiences you must have never tried this style of magic? Duel decks, old starter decks, pauper, pauper cube, and basically any format in a casual brew setting. These styles of play are dirt cheap and easily as fun if not more fun that competitive. I personally enjoy casual formats more because they allow for brewing with janky combos.

    Next time before you accuse people of being Delusional or mad maybe you should realize that just because you haven't tried to have fun without spending a lot of money that it's not possible
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Dredgevine
    I agree that cutting vines is not the best decision. Maybe side them out if you know your opponent is going to target them but in my experience it just closes the game on the spot too often. Most of the time there is no opportunity cost to recur it and it can force your opponent to fold on the spot when you hit multiples. It also can act as a blocker if you're in a desperate situation. There is just too much upside to take it out in my opinion. Like @killer_manfred said when you start cutting vines you are heading the direction of traditional dredge, I feel like it's a 4 or 0 card. However I think if you are interested in trying 3 go for it, trying new stuff never hurts and you could see something we are missing.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    You should buy cards you think are fun or that you would enjoy playing at a price you are willing to pay and consider the money spent on enjoying the cards. If you find yourself in some sort of economic bind in the future you could sell them, but I wouldn't buy them and expect them to hold value for you to rely on in the future. MTG lion did a video about this topic a couple of weeks back, relatively speaking it is inexpensive compared to other hobbies such as sports and probably about the same as video games. Normally I think MTG lion's video's aren't always the greatest but I felt that video in particular really hit a good point. When you buy a deck in most cases the deck won't need too many expensive changes to keep it playable and even the input cost is equivalent isn't horrible when compared to other hobbies. When you put money into other hobbies you aren't expecting to get that money back, you put the money in for enjoyment. The best example of this is commander, which is probably the most casual format and almost everyone who played magic after commander was a semi-established format but has quit since then keeps and updates their commander deck. It's an extremely casual format and since the life on a commander deck is about as eternal as you can get people don't have an issue spending a bit more to update the deck.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Good cards that are easily answered but underplayed
    I guess another way to put this would be cards that are good in game one or the first time you play them in a match. Things your opponent doesn't expect and that are situationaly good. What are some cards that are really good in a game one but are destroyed by sideboards?
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Good cards that are easily answered but underplayed
    Quote from rcwraspy »
    Quote from jackad7 »
    Quote from rcwraspy »
    If it is easily answered then it is likely neither good nor underplayed.
    How about you read the post before making comments on the title? Wink
    I did.
    Then you clearly aren't comprehending the post which isn't my problem.


    I like shadow of doubt, seems super fun and annoying. I'll add it to the list.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Good cards that are easily answered but underplayed
    Quote from rcwraspy »
    If it is easily answered then it is likely neither good nor underplayed.
    How about you read the post before making comments on the title? Wink
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Good cards that are easily answered but underplayed
    So I have been wanting to make a troll deck that is lots of cards that are easily answered, but nobody expects them. Mana tithe is a perfect example, one mana counterspell is absolutely broke but all they have to do is pay one mana and it's a waste. However since it sees next to zero play in modern because of how easy it is to answer it, almost nobody anticipates it. I am looking to make a small collection of cards that are similar to mana tithe in that aspect. Dash Hopes could be very powerful played correctly, I thought of another card the other day but forgot it. If anyone knows of any cards like this please let me know!
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    The latest deck that was presented to us by none other the saffron Olive is going to cause some spikes. If you want parts get them now, mtgo already had almost all the key components see spikes.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from Aegraen »
    Quote from Joban8 »
    Quote from Quantuman69 »
    Why do you think that Surgical Extraction has skyrocketed in price? Also why the modern masters printing at that?


    As someone already mentioned, it's seeing a ton of SB play in both Modern and Legacy. As far as why the MM15 version is more expensive, I'd personally chalk it up to the anti-counterfeit sticker. It's amazing how the quality of fakes has improved over the last couple of years; after receiving a counterfeit Serra's Sanctum, I've started using a jeweler's loupe on all high-end cards I get and if there are two versions of a card, one w/ the foil sticker, I'll pick that version up 9 times out of 10.


    AFAIK there are no counterfeit japanese language cards so for those of us who enjoy the foreign language cards we're pretty much in the clear (unless you've seen/heard differently). Another notch for foreign language cards over English :p

    Ehhh I remember reading somewhere that foreign counterfeits were more prevalent for certain languages. Particularly Chinese and Russian but I wouldn't rule out Japense. If you want a real safe bet buy moderately played because no counterfeitter is going to print played cards or play the cards into moderately played condition, and even if they did a lot times it will make it more noticeable that the cards are fake.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Glorious End into Glorious End?
    Quote from Rezzahan »
    Yes, with Sundial of the Infinite you can exile the delayed trigger after it goes on the stack, and it won't bother you anymore. It triggered and won't do so again, even if it doesn't get to resolve. And the same goes for any "lose the game" effects that use the stack (so from spells and abilities), you exile them, so they don't get to resolve.

    Awesome, time to make some crappy brews. Thanks for the help!
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Glorious End into Glorious End?
    So if I had the artifact that you can end the turn with, I could end the turn with the lose the game effect on the stack, and the effect would be exiled? Also would this work for any cards (except for split second style effects) that would make me lose the game in ways other than mill, life lose, poison? Sorry I had this ending the turn lose the game effects before this card.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Dredgevine
    I think I like bringing back either the new Hydra for 4 mana or Haunted Dead for 2 better. I seldomly find myself not being able to recurr Vengevine once I got them in the gy, so playing an additional one-drop zombie will just take up space in my list.

    I also did some testing yesterday against a couple of established decks (Naya Zoo, Grixis Shadow, Eldrazi and Taxes) and took loads of notes. I'll do a write-up over the weekend.
    Playtesting yesterday I realised I want Life from the Loam back in the main, mainly to support Conflagrate. I'll also for the first time ever go down to 19 lands. McClain on a recent CFB video feat. traditional Dredge also ran 19 (a thing I'd been contemplating for a long time, anyway). Maybe it'll also work for our archetype.

    I haven't taken loam out since I put it in, it's definitely worth the single spot because I has become so much more powerful with amalgam. The lands allow us to bring back bloodghast and amalgam and in essence gravecrawler and vengevine. It breaks stalemates allowing us to overwhelm in the long game.

    Also I have been playing around with the non-creature spells and I'm swapping cathartic reunion out for grisly salvage. I realize this is controversial but I find a lot of times the two cards from my hand is a lot to ask considering we usually only have so many cards to discard. I think cathartic reunion is significantly better in normal dredge. I am just trying this change out to see how it helps our consistency.

    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Dredgevine
    Worth a shot, I was going back and forth on it but since we have amalgams putting it into play is still a decent move, even though it's not cast. One mana from the hand zombie is incredible. I'll definitely try 2-3.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
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