Yup, I'm a troll. Not a big surprise to most. I don't honestly have an axe to grind with the gutter, but I found it amusing when (N_S) (side note: pretty swell guy.) made the suggestion that I not lie on the internet:
Quote from TomServo »
Yeah... You must be new.
Quote from ( N_S ) »
Quote from TomServo »
It'll be pretty obvious I'm over 18. Are fake names acceptable? How about sunglasses? Hats?
Quote from ( N_S ) »
dear MTGSalvation user,
The gutter is a section of MTGSalvation where more mature discussions take place.
As such it is restricted to people over 18 years old for legal reasons.
Therefore, in order to grant you access to the gutter, we will need a proof of age. More specifically, we request all applicants to send a personal picture holding a paper with the following statement written:
Hello, my name is ________ (user ______ ), I'm more than 18 years old, and I would like to join the gutter.
We thank you for your cooperation.
On behalf of the gutter,
( N_S )
How about not lying on the internet?
I'm waiting for next quarter and I have a lot of spare time on my hands. Challenge accepted.
Anyway, during the time I was erroneously dragging Talore's name through the mud, to which he kept responding (read: feeding) even though he PM'd me saying he was done, I received a very interesting PM from a moderator, that had to know, as most did by that point I was a troll:
Title: hehehe
Quote from Woapalanne »
<Talore> I'm not a troll. If I were, I wouldn't have been hired onto the staff.
Without saying anything specific, I can point out one gigantic logical fallacy there: that the admins may have assumed he had reformed, and not have paid as much attention to the Gutter as they should have.
Admins can verify I'm not actually lying about this.
Edit: My response to Waoatever for transparency sake:
Quote from TomServo »
LoL!
Thanks. I might take it in a slightly different direction, though.
I'm pretty sure this has to be seen as a attempt to foster a trolling environment in this thread against another staff member, and a community he very much does not like. if this was anything other than a planned attempt to troll talore vicariously through me he would have posted his opinion in this thread or the mod lounge. He did not do the former, and I doubt he did the latter. This is the only instance I've seen of an intentional plan to troll someone behind closed doors, and it was a staff. Think about that. This does not seem like behavior becoming of a staff member and a 5th level magic judge.
Full disclosure: I'm bowing out seeings I'll be banned after this post anyways. I don't think the gutter should be shut down.
N_S no hard feelings on this side.
Talore: Likewise. I randomly dredged up BS to sling your way. You should probably get the "honor" of banning me.
Edit: Also, don't be hard on Galspanic, I fed him a huge line. It's not his fault he felt compelled to defend me when I was called out.
GR wasnt involved in the decision and only after finding out about it chose to not be part of a corrupt administration.
I know he wasn't involved in making the decision, he wasn't a global or an admin. He still didn't agree with the decision and he wasn't forced to do anything.
The stuff you guys are currently arguing has been argued to death already and people are just trolling responses out of people now, TomServo holds a pretty obvious grudge against the gutter and hasn't made a useful post this entire thread and D_V is pretty much talking about nothing using a lot of words, if you are going to keep posting at least post something productive instead of arguing about the same junk that has been argued about 3 or 4 pages ago, I know this topic is long but you should really be reading it all and if you aren't then just don't comment please.
I will answer your question when you stop hiding behind a gimmick and reveal who you are and possibly the real reason why you have such a horrible grudge against the gutter, you are not even posting rationally any more.
You guys are the ones who made a big deal about this account after trying to dismiss anything anyone who may have been new said. It's largely inconsequential, which I guess is why gutter members latched onto it.
In your words, if you are going to keep posting at least post something productive instead of arguing about the same junk that has been argued about 3 or 4 pages ago.
That question can't be answered with any certainty or accuracy. It's an irrelevant question that leads to nothing. Here's a stab.....
Which one? I'm just going to assume you meant the last one. But as long as we're defining what is and isn't irrelevant, can't the same argument be made for 90% of the concerns and questions raised by the gutter? It's most likely getting shut down, so how is asking the same questions for 91 pages going to help the cause when there is no cause to help? Doesn't that reek of irrelevancy?
The only reason I asked is because we've had very few gutter members come here and be able to actually define it's value. It was brought up a few times that it might be intrinsic, but I don't buy into it that, so the question was just another way to try and glean the value of it.
~Abusive mods would be running around rampant without a watchdog to call them out.
I'm still wondering, how come the "watchdogs" with mod access didn't blow the whistle on the User X thread until now? (N_S) said, for instance, that he values his conscience more than the rules, yet we haven't heard about it until the closing of the gutter was announced. Or is it a situation where the gutter is only the watchdog in regard to the gutter without a thought of the other users who might be affected?
~You (TomServo) wouldn't be a whiny turd looking for an ax to grind.
Oh, how sweet.
Without a Gutter at all....which is where we are headed....people will leave the site. People will vent elsewhere and get infracted for it for no good reason. The site will become a police state with all decisions made by rianalnn and agreed upon or face bannination and/or de-modding.
Just a note: GR didn't agree and wasn't banned or de-modded. That seemed like nothing but his own decision.
Again, why not just move the community somewhere else, there's only 200 of you. It's really not that hard to do logistically. In this day and age, it shouldn't be too much of an issue to deal with two windows. You don't even have to leave the site, you can still post here as long as it's on topic and follows the rules, then you can turn around and call people ******s and ****suckers on your offsite area that is in no danger of being shut down or infracted (infractions seem to be serious business for you guys). Also, I don't see how this would stop you from being the "watchdog" at all.
You and DV are showing your asses by being smug, assuming, and unmovable on your stance. You're just here to voice your bias opinions with no room for compromise.
How are we the only ones that are, allegedly, not willing to compromise? This thread is over a thousand posts of biased opinions, mostly by people who are unmovable in their stance.
Would any more Gutter members like to take a crack at the questions I asked earlier?
What do you think MTGS will be like with no gutter? What do you think it would be like if the gutter never existed?
FYI this ^^^ is trolling and not constructive AT ALL.
You just invalidated anything you have said and will say in the thread.
*sips tea* good day sir.
So would you submit that anyone who has been guilty of trolling does not have any valid points to be made or opinions to be heard? That wouldn't be a great tactic...
If an average user had a problem with me, they can take it to my helpdesk.
Seeings that you pride yourself on being, in your words, an " ******* " to people, would it yield any results? Didn't KCW use his position as gutter mod for trolling? Again, not out of the realm of possibility.
I don't like what you're insinuating, sir, and I don't like how you're twisting what I said into something that can be attacked (and could be use to attack me.) As a precaution, I am not interested in defending myself against accusations of a similar nature.
So you'd rather not defend yourself and let your actions in this thread, and as an aspiring (but possibly reformed) troll be what forms the opinions of the average user?
I'm not even accusing you of actually being one. Just that it is in the realm of possibility given your behavior.
Rest assured (despite the inevitable assertions of some other members of MTGS) that I am not a troll. If I were, I wouldn't have been hired onto the staff.
Following this line of logic; If Lance were a ripper, he would have never been hired on to mtgs staff. Obviously you realize staff are human and invariably miss things from time to time. So I find it entirely plausible that you could be a troll while also being a member of the staff.
Quote from Talore »
MTGS is what it is. I understand we're one of the largest MTG communites on the web, so we must be doing something right!
I'm not going to truly respond to this, mostly because I believe that one should not have to face double jeopardy. However, I will point you to this thread in which these issues were originally raised by banned member DalkonCledwin. These issues were looked into by moderators almost a year ago! After which time, the gutter was reopened and has managed to operate quietly and without causing problems.
Funny how that worked out.
However, I must add that it is quite odd that obvious gimmick account and staunch anti-gutter proponent TomServo coincidentally found such an obscure bit of old news while surfing the web.
You mest surf the internet in very different ways from me, as that is quite the obscure link.
Talore was puffing up his chest and Kijin shot him down (sarcasm, internet).
No where does talore recieve lessons on trolling, he is saying that he taught himself.
Then Kijin makes fun of him for trolling the main boards.
Well, that may be true, but someone calling themselves Talore made a comment in that thread that seemed to confirm these suspicions. Maybe the only thing to draw from this is that Talore is a troll if it's the same Talore from this site?
Care to answer the last two questions in my post that you quoted? I'm very interested in the gutter membership's thoughts.
The whole site is guilty of trolling. If you say otherwise you're delusional.
So if I disagree with your opinion, I'm delusional? Makes sense when you don't think about it.
The main difference to me is that the gutter is the only place trolling is encouraged and endorsed, whereas the staff actively try to discourage that behavior and mentality in the rest of the site.
Like I said, I'll welcome detailed corrections and answers to my previous post.
While cruising through the internet, I stumbled on a very interesting link alleging that the Gutter fosters the trolling of the rest of MTGS.
It's Kind of a mess, but two quotes stood out:
Quote from Talore »
I've learned how to tread the line between following the rules and trolling. So now I can be an ******* to people who deserve it outside of the gutter; I still don't have a single infraction."
In response:
Quote from Kijin »
"the gold standard to which all of you should aspire to."
This sounds to me that the gutter does try to actively troll the other users, and relying on plausible deniability to stay out of trouble. If I'm wrong I'll welcome a detailed correction. I doubt I'm the only one who will be interested.
Also, another question for the gutter:
What do you think MTGS will be like without a gutter? What do you think it would be like if there never was a gutter?
I agree, it would be really nice for an independent entity to take on this role. I wouldn't be so paranoid that someone is just trying to sell me something instead of really look at budget concerns.
Anyway, during the time I was erroneously dragging Talore's name through the mud, to which he kept responding (read: feeding) even though he PM'd me saying he was done, I received a very interesting PM from a moderator, that had to know, as most did by that point I was a troll:
Title: hehehe
Admins can verify I'm not actually lying about this.
Edit: My response to Waoatever for transparency sake:
I'm pretty sure this has to be seen as a attempt to foster a trolling environment in this thread against another staff member, and a community he very much does not like. if this was anything other than a planned attempt to troll talore vicariously through me he would have posted his opinion in this thread or the mod lounge. He did not do the former, and I doubt he did the latter. This is the only instance I've seen of an intentional plan to troll someone behind closed doors, and it was a staff. Think about that. This does not seem like behavior becoming of a staff member and a 5th level magic judge.
Full disclosure: I'm bowing out seeings I'll be banned after this post anyways. I don't think the gutter should be shut down.
N_S no hard feelings on this side.
Talore: Likewise. I randomly dredged up BS to sling your way. You should probably get the "honor" of banning me.
Edit: Also, don't be hard on Galspanic, I fed him a huge line. It's not his fault he felt compelled to defend me when I was called out.
Buh bye.
I know he wasn't involved in making the decision, he wasn't a global or an admin. He still didn't agree with the decision and he wasn't forced to do anything.
You guys are the ones who made a big deal about this account after trying to dismiss anything anyone who may have been new said. It's largely inconsequential, which I guess is why gutter members latched onto it.
In your words, if you are going to keep posting at least post something productive instead of arguing about the same junk that has been argued about 3 or 4 pages ago.
Which one? I'm just going to assume you meant the last one. But as long as we're defining what is and isn't irrelevant, can't the same argument be made for 90% of the concerns and questions raised by the gutter? It's most likely getting shut down, so how is asking the same questions for 91 pages going to help the cause when there is no cause to help? Doesn't that reek of irrelevancy?
The only reason I asked is because we've had very few gutter members come here and be able to actually define it's value. It was brought up a few times that it might be intrinsic, but I don't buy into it that, so the question was just another way to try and glean the value of it.
I'm still wondering, how come the "watchdogs" with mod access didn't blow the whistle on the User X thread until now? (N_S) said, for instance, that he values his conscience more than the rules, yet we haven't heard about it until the closing of the gutter was announced. Or is it a situation where the gutter is only the watchdog in regard to the gutter without a thought of the other users who might be affected?
Oh, how sweet.
Just a note: GR didn't agree and wasn't banned or de-modded. That seemed like nothing but his own decision.
Again, why not just move the community somewhere else, there's only 200 of you. It's really not that hard to do logistically. In this day and age, it shouldn't be too much of an issue to deal with two windows. You don't even have to leave the site, you can still post here as long as it's on topic and follows the rules, then you can turn around and call people ******s and ****suckers on your offsite area that is in no danger of being shut down or infracted (infractions seem to be serious business for you guys). Also, I don't see how this would stop you from being the "watchdog" at all.
How are we the only ones that are, allegedly, not willing to compromise? This thread is over a thousand posts of biased opinions, mostly by people who are unmovable in their stance.
Would any more Gutter members like to take a crack at the questions I asked earlier?
What do you think MTGS will be like with no gutter? What do you think it would be like if the gutter never existed?
So would you submit that anyone who has been guilty of trolling does not have any valid points to be made or opinions to be heard? That wouldn't be a great tactic...
Seeings that you pride yourself on being, in your words, an " ******* " to people, would it yield any results? Didn't KCW use his position as gutter mod for trolling? Again, not out of the realm of possibility.
Trolling infraction issued. -viper
So you'd rather not defend yourself and let your actions in this thread, and as an aspiring (but possibly reformed) troll be what forms the opinions of the average user?
I'm not even accusing you of actually being one. Just that it is in the realm of possibility given your behavior.
Following this line of logic; If Lance were a ripper, he would have never been hired on to mtgs staff. Obviously you realize staff are human and invariably miss things from time to time. So I find it entirely plausible that you could be a troll while also being a member of the staff.
Holy hell, something we agree on!
Curious how? I've never been banned on this site
Well, that may be true, but someone calling themselves Talore made a comment in that thread that seemed to confirm these suspicions. Maybe the only thing to draw from this is that Talore is a troll if it's the same Talore from this site?
Care to answer the last two questions in my post that you quoted? I'm very interested in the gutter membership's thoughts.
So if I disagree with your opinion, I'm delusional? Makes sense when you don't think about it.
The main difference to me is that the gutter is the only place trolling is encouraged and endorsed, whereas the staff actively try to discourage that behavior and mentality in the rest of the site.
Like I said, I'll welcome detailed corrections and answers to my previous post.
It's Kind of a mess, but two quotes stood out:
In response:
This sounds to me that the gutter does try to actively troll the other users, and relying on plausible deniability to stay out of trouble. If I'm wrong I'll welcome a detailed correction. I doubt I'm the only one who will be interested.
Also, another question for the gutter:
What do you think MTGS will be like without a gutter? What do you think it would be like if there never was a gutter?
Actually, I made mention of it first. He then made some sort of empty threat. Note he was not a mod when he made this "discovery"
Are you making the argument that anyone who has been guilty of trolling should not have their opinion heard?
A large part of this thread has been about double standards, don't you guys have a thing about unfounded claims? Witch hunts?
I invite anyone, staff or otherwise, to report any posts I've made that you think violate the rules of the forum.