MTG Salvation

Quote from JTWood

Yes, I saw it. Mind if I ask how you would have built a deck with those cards in it?

I would do the same build you did for that pool except -Brave the Elements, -Angelic Wall, -Archaeomancer, -Fireshrieker, +Angelic Accord, +Trading Post, +Bubbling Cauldron, + Solemn Offering.

I (usually) like to MD at least one piece of enchantment removal in M14, and offering also has the bonus of the lifegain with accord. I would side it out if it looks like a wasted slot in matchups for the fireshrieker though. I would also side out master of diversion for the angelic wall if you run into any aggressive decks, or decks with a lot of flyers. This build really wants card draw, but you dont have it. Accord/Cauldron/Post is still too good to leave in the SB though, I've won a lot of drafts and sealeds off of Accord/Cauldron alone.

EDIT: Actually I would straight up cut the Master of Diversion for the Angelic Wall MD to begin with. With the changes its more of a control/combo deck anyway, Master doesn't do much here. Also worth noting with this build that if you have Devout Invocation in hand, and Trading Post out you can start making tokens each turn in anticipation of hitting 7 mana.

usually 10-15 matches, and a solid SB plan for every major meta archetype.

Agreed 100x.

I hop around on a lot of the other forums on this site as well, but I honestly think that hands down the best nuts and bolts magic players are in the limited forum. The best advice I have ever read on MTGS that made me a better player (not just in limited, but overall) have come from these posts over the past couple years. On top of that you guys are some pretty friendly and helpful folks, which is a nice change of pace from a lot of the other forums

Quote from magicmerl

No, I'd have kept that hand.

I think I would have also run Blood Toll Harpy over Dissolve.

Agreed. OP has enough removal/bounce in the deck, hard to justify keeping UU1 open for a counter.

I would've kept in Phalanx and Pharika's Cure and sided out 1x Read The Bones for the Chimera, leaving the Marauder out. Too often he's going to just be an overcosted Bear or sit in your hand. Your strategy should be to clog the ground, remove flyers and win through the air, you don't need him.

I wouldn't have mulled that hand either.

Quote from GNP

That's not good EV....you paid 22 tickets to win 4 packs over the course of 11 events. And you had a very good record to get there. One 4-0 daily event pays out 11 packs. For 6 tickets. In a fraction of the time. I have no clue how much all the stuff you opened is actually worth.

If you're just talking about how much fun you had then yeah you probably had a buttload of fun.

I was talking about EV though which is totally different.

I'm well aware of the payouts of the old standard DEs, I used to play in them. Those don't really exist now though do they? So its a moot point atm. I don't see a point to play standard at all right now with the current payouts, aside from just generally having fun playing with my standard decks, but I can do that for free in the practice room. A large part of the allure of standard for me was to 3-1 and 4-0 dailies with rogue, under the radar decks. Without large scale tournament reporting and DEs firing, there is less incentive to do that, both from a brewing perspective, and from an economic one.

Regarding the new Theros sealeds, what you're not taking into consideration (and what most strict constructed players don't take into consideration either) is the sheer amount of packs that I cracked for absolutely free, and the propensity for many of those cards to rise in value over the next year (since the fall set is generally at its lowest value between now and February). Now given that I just dumped most of my collection, I don't necessarily have the most faith in the MTGO economy right now, but nevertheless I basically got two BOXES worth of Theros for absolutely free (I 2-1d another queue yesterday).

Now, would I rather have the packs in those boxes rather than the singles? Yeah, absolutely, but considering the available events and payouts in both constructed and limited right now, I believe these are one of the best events to enter valuewise, all things considered (and by that I mean, directly taking into account the current and potential value of the cards cracked in events).

Quote from sneakattackkid

LSV's getting bashed on because he's tried to say that 8 mans are the equivalent of dailies and that grinders can live off them. Said straight in response to one of the grinders asking lsv if he thinks that 8 mans are going to take care of his 2 children.

Anyone relying on a digital version of a fantasy card game to support a family needs to get the crap slapped out of them, and actually go out and do tangible work in the world.

Comment Hidden

Looks great for limited, stoked to draft it. Quit whining.

Quote from kensanity

Please provide advice

DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
	Creatures:27 4 Experiment One 4 Vexing Devil 4 Flinthoof Boar 3 Spike Jester 4 Vampire Nighthawk 4 Varolz, the Scar-Striped 2 Falkenrath Aristocrat 2 Ghor-Clan Rampager Spells:9 1 Bonfire of the Damned 3 Rancor 1 Tragic Slip 2 Abrupt Decay 2 Flesh // Blood	Lands:24 4 Blood Crypt 4 Dragonskull Summit 1 Kessig Wolf Run 4 Overgrown Tomb 3 Rootbound Crag 4 Stomping Ground 4 Woodland Cemetery	Sideboard:15 3 Appetite for Brains 1 Abrupt Decay 2 Rakdos Charm 2 Rakdos's Return 2 Domri Rade 2 Liliana of the Veil 1 Deadbridge Chant 2 Sire of Insanity

You're going half in on traditional jund aggro, and varolz+ blood aggro. Pick one. If youre all in on varolz + blood, max out on jesters, rancor, ghor clan, and cut the aristocrats. I am convinced 3 Varolz is the right #, 4 is too much. If not, cut Varolz, blood, and just run normal jund aggro. This build doesnt do either well, you have to pick one. Also, cut removal from the MD that isn't burn. You can keep it in the SB for problematic matchups. Just my 2 cents.

Dauntless Onslaught is probably better than most rares in the set anyway.

Quote from DarkBrew

It really just shows how limited is so dependant on draws. His deck is certainly not as good as few others in the top 8.. but in limited alot is how you predict your draws(whether or not to trade early, etc) and flood/if you draw your good cards.

Constructed is what shows true skill.

Spoken like someone who simply has no understanding whatsoever of drafting

Standard players....

Hey, all!

Our MTGO clan, MTGS Limited, has been revived! Winter is coming (for most of us, anyway) and now is as good a time as any to redefine ourselves as an active clan. Since our common ground is our love for Limited, of course meeting up to draft will be a cornerstone, but as that can get prohibitively pricey, I'd like to see if there are other variants of MTG that have similar principles we also like; for my part, I'm thinking Momir Vig and Standard Pauper, perhaps Block Pauper/Peasant (EDIT: to clarify, I mean only casually- I'm thinking in terms of intra-clan events.) I'm also brewing up some other fun activities, and welcome any ideas and brainstorming.

For now, I'd like to ask your usernames, what formats you enjoy, what times you are generally online/available, and what timezone you're in. If you have some ideas for clan activites, by all means, share away.

If you'd like to join the clan, either message me online, or PM me here with your username. Only requirement is that you are a member of this forum!

MTGO Username: JCuff
(Casual) Constructed Formats Played: Pauper, Standard Pauper, Commander, Momir Basic
Timezone: EST (GMC -5)
Availability: Most any, prefer non-football evenings.

...I'm about to get reflective in a positive way!

Given that the year is coming to a close, I think it's worth the time to reflect on what this forum has become over the past while. I'm not terribly involved in the internets elsewhere, but my understanding of the degenerative potential of online communities leads me to be very proud of what we've all managed to create here, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it continue to be a representative conversational outlet for those looking to improve their limited game in the future.

Yeah, podcasts like Limited Resources exist, and websites like ChannelFireball and StarCity offer up strategic nuggets, but I don't know of another place where someone can simply hop on, ask a question, and have a flock of players from different time zones, player demographics, and skill levels almost immediately provide guidance, anecdotes, and fairly impressive debate regarding anything limited, be it a single pick or the evaluation of an entire format. I love to argue, and I know that I can be combative at times (sometimes for its own sake :p), but being able to easily find a forum for my voice that I know contains so many other valuable ones has really made my Magic experience that much better overall.

Yeah, this isn't really a productive thread, so to speak, which makes me a huge hypocrite, but I seldom find or take any opportunity to express how appreciative I am of the community here, not just as a source of laughs and debate, but as a way to stay connected to the game when all it seems to do is frustrate me.

So, with all of that said, I hope everyone here has a fantastic holiday season, regardless of what/if you celebrate. I'll be going on vacation next week, so my participation here will be minimal; hence the "take care everyone, see you soon" thread on December 12th. I'm looking forward to returning in 2014 to all of the belligerence, heated exchanges, and feelings of being outrageously stupid for calling a card terrible before a format develops (Hopeful Eidolon, I'm looking at you)!

Modern Life is War seems to fit well with MM draft (as well as the prices).

"alters" meaning "hurr durr pretty lady boobies on planeswalkers"

Just want to say that this is an awesome thread - both the OP and the replies - really like Clairval's response. But, yes, I really enjoyed the OP's post for being honest and thorough. I could really relate to this post.

Magic is just a brutal game and, like you, I went through a period of serious disillusionment with it. I enjoy the "battle of wits" that's involved - perhaps this is what you mean by the "novelty" - but it's the gambling component of the game that really disturbs me. (Day9 has described MTG as "really, really slow gambling".) The problem for me with the monetary component of the game is that it makes the game too serious and too competitive (thus souring the "novelty" of the game.) Players have invested quite a bit of money into the game (~14 dollars for a draft) and it stings to lose. Winning becomes a very serious thing. (You encounter far too many arrogant, hot-headed opponents who - when the match comes to its close - either complain bitterly about their losses or rub their victory in your face.)

So. You said you enjoyed FOOLS. My question is: do you enjoy cube drafting? To me, it seems this could be a possible answer. I had many of the same problems you had, until I started cube drafting with friends. To me, cube has the novelty that you're looking for. Also you can cube the sets that you like, since it seems like you haven't enjoyed recent sets.

During my worst falling out with Magic, I had a friend donate a bunch of his old cards to me. These were all classic cards, mostly pre-Invasion, and I decided to build a cube entirely from classic bordered cards. This was very appealing to my friends, who are all old Magic players. So I set up a night of cube drafting with them. They were hooked immediately - it was amazing - we could draft for free whenever we wanted, design our own format and metagame, and play against opponents who wouldn't flip the table. Magic went right back to being my favorite game. (Though I also enjoy Dominion and Innovation - games which you should definitely try as well. Innovation can be played online at http://innovation.isotropic.org.)

All this aside, I do enjoy drafting limited online. urafever's point about being "novel" during draft hits it on the head for me. I have come to like that drafting is tough and stressful - I like to do something in my spare time that works my mental capacity. Magic is a very interactive game and every match comes down to who can pull the rug out from the other person. But, no, it isn't perfect - no game is - and is definitely guilty of all the things we hate: "screw", "mulls", "top-deck mode" and losing to a random bomb. But other times, it's crazy and it's close or it gets degenerate we're bouncing Archaeomancer again and again off the Primadox - and it's all the things we love. Good luck.

The whole Metagame leveling thing. Basically when aggro gets better decks that stabilize well get better. Unless something fundamental changes and the matchup reverses as soon as the predator gets popular enough it chases out the deck with greater potential. However then the deck that hunts the predator and might have issues with the original prey gets better. This looks like a cycle that continues endlessly but it usually isn't. Unlike the classic trying to level your opponent the one thing that doesn't change is the baseline power of cards. This isn't poker where you can bluff the whole way.

The Metagame ultimately tends to stabilize at a certain point. To reach that point often archetypes gain popularity pushing others to change. Maybe the best aggro deck changes due to the midrange in the format that suddenly makes a different archetype stronger. But since this leveling can be reset at a certain level by doing the most powerful things it will eventually balance. Now a deck like Reanimator does innately proactive powerful things. It can not gain anything and find itself in a prime position. Mind you if it's easy enough to hate with the current crop of decks the Metagame will roll past it again. But if the hate is too costly then bigger changes may occur. Ad nauseum until the rate of these change cycles get tight enough it's not even worth the change. At this point often the Metagame polarizes to a few extremes or somewhere in the center. This effect is amplified by the power level of cards. WOTC tries their best to shake this up as often as they can with each set release.

I've thought this card was great since day one.

I get so sick of everyone basing what they believe is a 'playable card' and a 'viable deck' off what they see or don't see in SCG. One day a card is trash, the next day its "OH MAN, DID YOU SEE HOW THAT ONE GUY WE RESPECT PLAYED THAT ONE CARD WE ALL HATED? DUH, ITS SO OBVIOUSLY AMAZING!"

Anyway, it is a great card. Tons of value on ETB creatures. I've been using it in many different decks and getting great results.