OK. Those are real decks, you can just include more maindeck anti-control cards in them without giving much up elsewhere. You can't do that to the same extent in Mono Red and Gruul.
So RDW is NOT my best bet? I should go for something like Boros etc?
If you specifically just want to beat control, Rakdos Deck Wins ("Dos Rakis") and Boros (with Thalia and Boros Charm) are very good against control.
Don't get me wrong, I want to stay competitive across the board, but as I said my meta is VERY control heavy, so I'd want to lean on the side of beating them out most of the time while still being prepared for other threats.
Just about EVERYONE (89% (totally accurate of course)) of players play some form of control at my local shop. Whether its Esper Control, Bant, BWR variants, etc these guys are dominating the meta and I've decided to get back into the game, and I've always enjoyed aggro.
What is my best bet, variant wise, etc to stand up against Bant, Esper, etc?
At first it seems clunky, tested the deck and surprised myself, it is quite a good deck. I felt like it needed Terminus so made a few changes to the Sideboard, overall the deck is pretty solid.
I really like it, any room for Devour Flesh in your 75? I think it's got too much potential to not show up in the SB at the least.
I'm starting to get back into the game and I want to play a deck that isn't a simple "Smack you and win" basic aggro deck. I want something that switches up the win condition, or at the very least has multiple ways to win a game.
Orzhov intrigues me, as does B/W in general so I was wondering if there was anything including B/W/G? Using the new Obzedat, Ghost Council specifically.
Yeah I've always been playing him as a 1 of in the MD, and a second one in the Sideboard just to use against control that abuses the living hell out of sweepers.
Manadork, threat, bigger threat, another threat = overextending -> bending over for a 4 for 1.
Sure, there are probably matchups where its gonna work beautifully!
So you have to decide about autolosing to anyone playing boardsweepers (the bane of selesnya), but crush everyone else OR pick another way to victory than overextending.
Another thing which is hard to deal with in WG is getting cards. You sort of have to play conservative until Garruk can help out with drawing cards. That makes overextending very dangerous :/
The 1/1 dog is just as example of something that works better than manadork, because the first strike is win and even more win with rancor. There must be better options than manadorks!
Thank you, I'm done ranting now
I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't think you have ever played this deck. Everything you have stated is generally just not true/accurate.
Do you believe Garruk, Primal Hunter warrants worth in the deck? There is a decent amount of 5 drops already, so does he have a place? Just curious on the general opinion.
Yes, Favorable Winds is nice in that it hits all "creatures" in the deck, which is more than any of the other anthem effects we currently run. I am definitely trying it as a 2-1 split, meaning 2 Winds 1 Virtue.
Also, I am contemplating putting Mental Misstep into my SB for decks that run Gut Shot, Shock, Pillar of Flames, Tragic Slip, and any other 1-drop removal. Also can shut down Humans rather effectively.
Gh@st, I will warn you now, running 8 Enchantments ruins your chances to flip Delver consistently. Cut 2 Winds, and bump Snag and Leak up to 4 each. Also, Doomed Traveler is not a good card without Honor of the Pure to pump it. If you insist on running him, remove the Virtues for Honors, otherwise they will sit there for a while. Aside from that, I am concerned that 18 lands is too few. 19 is understandable, but 18 is pushing your luck.
In my personal playtests, delver flips consistently with 20 sorc/inst and traveler never sits for me, every game he hits the field and I get his token. Although I do agree that 18 lands is not enough, that was a miscalculation on my end.
For the deck, it's a bit expensive in terms of being a 5 MC because this deck has things up and running by turn 3, so if I drew into monk, it'd just slow down the game for me. It's the same reason I don't run reaver(s). And I just don't think I could ever fit her in as the deck is really tight as is. Vigilance is awesome, but she would have to have flying to win me over.
if i could afford GoST then I totally would pop that in there.
contemplating Angelic Wall too... opinions?
GoST makes all the difference. And honestly, Angelic Wall has proven to be a great SB card against fellow spirit decks, it just stops their delver in it's tracks.
Hey guys after messing around with my earlier build, I can confidently say that Geist of Saint Traft tests AMAZINGLY well in this deck. Captain + Geist are a match made in heaven. Seriously.
-2 Fiend Hunter
+2 Geist of Saint Traft
This simple change has skyrocketed my W's and the strength of the deck tenfold.
Edit: And to be perfectly honest, Moorland Haunt has been nothing but dead for me, and when I draw it I am partially disappointed. Rarely do I have any actual creatures hit the graveyard. And if I do, there are much more important things this deck runs to spend mana on than a single token.
So RDW is NOT my best bet? I should go for something like Boros etc?
Don't get me wrong, I want to stay competitive across the board, but as I said my meta is VERY control heavy, so I'd want to lean on the side of beating them out most of the time while still being prepared for other threats.
Just about EVERYONE (89% (totally accurate of course)) of players play some form of control at my local shop. Whether its Esper Control, Bant, BWR variants, etc these guys are dominating the meta and I've decided to get back into the game, and I've always enjoyed aggro.
What is my best bet, variant wise, etc to stand up against Bant, Esper, etc?
Thanks much in advance.
I really like it, any room for Devour Flesh in your 75? I think it's got too much potential to not show up in the SB at the least.
Orzhov intrigues me, as does B/W in general so I was wondering if there was anything including B/W/G? Using the new Obzedat, Ghost Council specifically.
I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't think you have ever played this deck. Everything you have stated is generally just not true/accurate.
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Moorland Haunt
5 Plains
5 Island
1 Swamp
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Drogskol Captain
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Intangible Virtue
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Favorable Winds
Sorceries
4 Ponder
4 Lingering Souls
3 Gitaxian Probe
Instants
4 Midnight Haunting
4 Vapor Snag
3 Mana Leak
2 Dungeon Geists
3 Angelic Wall
2 Angelic Destiny
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Revoke Existance
3 Celestial Purge
1 Oblivion Ring
In my personal playtests, delver flips consistently with 20 sorc/inst and traveler never sits for me, every game he hits the field and I get his token. Although I do agree that 18 lands is not enough, that was a miscalculation on my end.
For the deck, it's a bit expensive in terms of being a 5 MC because this deck has things up and running by turn 3, so if I drew into monk, it'd just slow down the game for me. It's the same reason I don't run reaver(s). And I just don't think I could ever fit her in as the deck is really tight as is. Vigilance is awesome, but she would have to have flying to win me over.
-UPDATED-
I'm liking winds more and more.
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Moorland Haunt
5 Plains
4 Island
1 Swamp
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Drogskol Captain
2 Geist of Saint Traft
Enchants
2 Intangible Virtue
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Favorable Winds
4 Ponder
4 Lingering Souls
2 Gitaxian Probe
Instants
4 Midnight Haunting
3 Vapor Snag
3 Mana Leak
GoST makes all the difference. And honestly, Angelic Wall has proven to be a great SB card against fellow spirit decks, it just stops their delver in it's tracks.
Favorable Wings Is interesting, and I plan to run it, along with Intangible Virtue
Virtue pumps spirit token flyers, Winds pumps delver, and Captain pumps geist + my tokens. It's quite amazing.
and if I can get two captains out, oh man is it a tough game for my opponent.
-2 Fiend Hunter
+2 Geist of Saint Traft
This simple change has skyrocketed my W's and the strength of the deck tenfold.
Edit: And to be perfectly honest, Moorland Haunt has been nothing but dead for me, and when I draw it I am partially disappointed. Rarely do I have any actual creatures hit the graveyard. And if I do, there are much more important things this deck runs to spend mana on than a single token.
Edit (x2): Updated decklist!
4 Glacial Fortress
3 Evolving Wilds
2 Moorland Haunt
5 Plains
4 Island
1 Swamp
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Drogskol Captain
2 Geist of Saint Traft
Enchants
4 Intangible Virtue
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Ponder
4 Lingering Souls
3 Gitaxian Probe
Instants
4 Midnight Haunting
3 Vapor Snag
3 Mana Leak
4 Wolfir Avenger
3 Champion of the Parish
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Hamlet Captain
4 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Wolfbitten Captive
3 Avacyn’s Pilgrim
3 Fiend Hunter
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Mirran Crusader
4 Gather the Townsfolk
2 Oblivion Ring
Artifacts: 1
1 Mortar Pod
Land: 21
7 Plains
7 Forest
4 Sunpetal Grove
3 Gavony Township
I love your deck ideas haha, here is my take on it.