Don't go around ***** about legacy cards until you actually play the damn format. Lantern works. It took some time, but it works in Modern like gangbusters, and it can fundamentally work in Legacy too.
This user who posted this list, Svyelunite, wrote this report:
Round 1: Death and Taxes
G1: Won die roll. I mulliganed to 5 and kept a sketchy hand. It had Lantern, TS, Bayou, UG Sea, Needle. I scry'd a Shredder to the top. TS revealed a hand with Aether Vial, Mom, Thalia, Karakas, SFM, Port and Wasteland. I figured I was already dead, but took the Thalia and crossed my fingers. Basically the rest of the game involved me not having enough mana to operate and dieing to a Batterskull.
G2: Kept 7 and steamrolled him with a turn 2 Bridge (City of Traitors is great in this deck) into the full lantern lock. He never drew a non-land the rest of the game.
G3: He mulliganed and scry'd his card to the top. He played Plains --> Aether Vial. I decided to lead on Shredder and hit him blind. It was a Karakas and his second turn revealed he had no land drop, but a second Aether vial. I got 2 more mill rocks and a Lantern thanks to Mox Opal off the top. He managed to get a Revoker, Serra's Avenger, 2x Mom and a Wingmare in play from the Aether Vials before I finally found Needle to shut them down (all the while keeping him from finding another land). Golgari Charm cleaned up all but the Angel, and on 1 life I finally found a Bridge. I had it from there because I never let him have another land.
Round 2: RUG Hypergenesis/Show and Tell (1-0)
This round was strange because assuming I got an early Bridge, I figured I was unlikely to die, but her deck had a few spicy treats like Warstorm Surge and Bogardan Hellkite, so I could even die without being attacked. Also, without counterspells, I couldn't really stop her from resolving either of the namesake cards. Additionally, she had both 3x Progenitus and 2x Emrakul in the deck, so Milling her out was going to be tough.
G1 + G2: Basically, I got a bridge quickly (G2 off of a Show and Tell) and established enough of the Lantern lock that I could make sure she didn't draw Warstorm Surge. I had to mill + surgical the Emrakuls and then slowly set up a board position where the only cards left in her deck were the 3 Progenitus. Then with Codex Shredder recurring Duress/Surgical I was able to strip enough cards out of her hand so that she couldn't discard Progenitus EoT and she decked. Actually went to time because of how long it takes to create this exact scenario. Fortunately this deck isn't a main stay of Legacy events.
Round 3: Punishing Jund (2-0)
G1: Win the die roll. I mull to 6, keeping an ok set of TS, Lantern, Shredder, 3 lands. Scry reveals a Bridge, so I figure I'm pretty safe. TS reveals opponent has TS, Hymn, DRS, Goyf, Decay, Grove, BS Mire. I'm boned... Took the TS. His DRS leands into a Hymn (that gets my Bridge) and he knows to AD the Lantern the following turn so I can't control my draws and get back into it. I died pretty quick to that Goyf.
G2: On play, keep 7. I decide to lead on Lantern over TS because he isn't a combo deck. Probably a mistake because he had TS for me and took mine. T2 I played a Needle on Liliana (revealed from Lantern) and a Shredder. He plays a DRS and a second TS taking my Bridge. I found another Bridge eventually, and figured I had it stabilized at 8 life. I did not because before I could find another Surgical Extraction to take out his Punishing Fires, he burned me out with the recursion loop.
Round 4: Elves (2-1)
I don't remember all the specifics of this matchup super well, but I know I lost the Die roll and kept 7.
G1: He had a turn 3 Craterhoof kill that I wasn't remotely able to fight back against.
G2: I kept a sketchy 6 with Bridge, Needle, City of Traitors, Mox Opal, Welding Jar, and Thoughtseize. Scry revealed a second Bridge, which I kept on top. I led with the City, Opal, Jar, Needled naming Wirewood, and TS'd him to take away GSZ. Turn 2 I slammed the Bridge, Turn 3 revealed a second Needle, which I put on Wirewood again so he couldn't Rec Sage out of it. The second bridge pretty much sealed the deal. Eventually I drew some mill rocks, and managed to mill him out without ever drawing a Lantern.
G3: This game probably shouldn't count because his turn 1 Llanowar elves died to my Turn 1 of Tree of Tales -> Mox Opal -> Lotus Petal -> Engineered Plague on Elves. I set up the Lantern Lock on the following 2 turns and made sure he didn't draw Rec Sage or GSZ. He tried to use DRS and Nettle Sentinel to get some game going, but a Golgari Charm took care of that nonsense
I finished 4th (this store just did standings/prizes instead of a Top cut because we only got 16 ppl). Overall, I think the deck ran pretty well. The MD is probably pretty good for a typical Open or IQ meta (obviously this meta was a little out of the norm, but that happens with smaller events). I don't think I had an optimal SB. Flusterstorm seems like it is probably not worth the space. Hand disruption and Arcane Laboratory are probably a better plan against decks like Storm or Omnitell. Golgari Charm is the perfect split card of extra enchantment hate/sweeper we need. I would suggest playing a 3rd if you expect a lot of Elves/DnT/Goblins. I think it's possible a 4th AD could have been in the place of the Nature's Claim. Grafdigger's Cage is great, the Relic would function better as a Spellbomb or Tormod's Crypt. I'm not completely sold on Engineered Plague because it's only good against a small portion of decks. I think Ghirapur Aether Grid would serve a similar function against a lot more decks, but it would make our mana a lot harder to manage. Food for thought. Feel free to ask questions!
We really want to play Vise with cards that force our opponent to not play cards, and punish them for doing so. Like Stifle and Wasteland and Goblin Guide. Caleb Durward made UR Delver with it, and the deck was sick.
We can't all expect this set to ever live up to Zendikar, can we?
Stop comparing the two. They both do completely and utterly separate things for the game. Yes, Zendikar block had some of the most powerful cards ever printed in a standard set for some time--Jace, Stoneforge, Eldrazi, etc.--but the point is that Battle for Zendikar is NOT NOR WILL IT EVER BE Zendikar. They did something fundamentally different for it, and the players are like up in arms about it because it has the word Zendikar in it's name.
Return to Ravnica did the same thing, and people reacted much in the same way. Same thing with Mirrodin.
If anything, this is the most polarizing set I've seen in ages. I watched 4 minutes of the SCG Set review and Bard Narson goes on to say "Yep, Aligned Hedron Network is just simply a bad Magic card." and Todd Anderson slams Sire of Stagnation on Twitter because "It only triggers on your opponent's lands (sighs)". Then, on other sites, Conley Woods exclaims that AHN is the next Perilous Vault. So what is it really? Is it bad or good?
And that I think really sums up my taste with this set--It's really up in the air. Black got lots of cool cards, and some of the devoid eldrazi are pretty nifty, but there is some much...just...uncertainty with these cards that it's really going to come down to who can make a new Standard deck with the new cards the best.
I've been really gunning that straight control with Sire of Stagnation as the finisher of choice is probably good enough.
We're loosing Dissolve, but getting Scatter to the Winds...which is counterspell early, and counterspell+threat late game. Radiant Flames is super undervalued, because a 3 mana 3 damage sweeper is probably very good with aggro creatures being x/1s and x/2s.
We also loose Hero's Downfall, but Ruinous Path seems okay for attrition early and attrition plus guy later. An even exchange in my book.
Ugin makes a fine finisher as well, with all of our land creatures from the Awaken spells and our Devoid Eldrazi sticking around to finish them off--which is hysterical because Vorthos. Herald also serves as a nice brick wall, cost reducer, and clock if need be.
I'm not really interested in the Processors. They really need a lot of stuff to work...we really only start exiling cards late and that could be too late in the game for these odd, obtuse abilities that they have. Certainly, a more dedicated processor deck is out there.
Thoughts...admittedly this is rough and will need work.
I think the deck doesn't want all four Sieges--at least not in the main deck. To me, our creatures get huge without it and when it becomes live it's totally a win more card.
Does this deck really want Raptor? It wants Den Protector for sure, but is it THAT good to include him?
It's Friday...so that means payday and some nice beers. Got a little flight for y'all tonight
First up, Ommegang Rare Vos. Nice light amber ale with a good amount of citrus notes and a little spice in the back of the mouth--nothing too overbearing, but awesome and sweet. This was great, and certainly a recommendation if you can find it.
Next, Trappistes Rochefort 10. My buddy who works at a liquor store, and has a good read on my beer tastes from college nights with Magic, brews, and some wacky tobaccy, handed this to me and told me that I would love it. I may like heavy beers like Guinness and the like, but I'm a total addict for Belgians/Trappists. But godDAYUM is this one hell of a beer. Got good fruit notes like fig and raisins--yet a good strong finish. Incredible.
Apparently, the Rochefort 10 goes really well with Matcha Pocky. Whodathough?
Finally, Weyerbacher's Blithering Idiot. It's heavy with a nice fruity finish to it. An English style ale, so it's warm and welcoming. Again, an awesome beer and I would certainly drink this outside of pairings and more refined setting. New favorite for sure.
I also feel like Den Protector is probably better at 2 CMC than something like Avatar of the Resolute. It's got way more reach and can really make the deck go long, simply because of it's morph ability. And being able to make it huge with Scales and basically unblockable is a plus.
I'd rather play Falconer as a way to break states and a way to just alpha into the opponent's face than something like Champion at this point. However, let's not rule him out--perhaps he's just a necessary evil at could be played comfortably at maybe 2 copies.
Skaab Ruinator really required a ton of things to work...where as Champion gets better just playing lands. The best thing is a way to play him and crack a fetch the same turn, which isn't really hard but that play line would comes later than you think.
A Naya version would really let him shine due to the access of 2 sets of fetches, so he can abuse the landfall triggers. This makes stuff like Shaman of the Great Hunt viable at 4. The converge elemental doesn't strike me as particularly good. Here's an actual card you really need to work for...you already have to go into multiple colors AND have access to all of them for him to be a sizeable threat. I would rather just play a land and grow my guy.
CoCo seems cool, but our best creature nonbos with it something fierce.
Also, remember that there's going to be lots of 5 mana wraths in the format (Crux of Fate, End Hostilities, the new one with awaken, Tragic Arrogance...) how many of these will be serious threats is still up in the air, so we really should look at Inspiring Call as a main deck thing.
Plus, Den Protector is too hard to pass up. Rebuying commands is one thing, but rebuying Calls against control staves off wraths, draws us more cards than they can, and keeps us from getting overrun from card advantage on their end.
The problem I see here is that there is already a lot of good three drops for the deck. We need to trim the best out.
Obviously, if the fringe Hardened Scales decks have taught us anything, it's that Managorger Hydra is the real deal for the deck. So he's in for sure. Hangarback is a no brainer as well. Endless One is an odd choice, but he could be very good, but being just a vanilla creature means that there will probably be better options for him. For example, Hangarback already outclasses him. Undergrowth Champ is super good, and I really don't know why people aren't giving him attention. Plus GW allows for fetchlands for dubs Landfall triggers...it worked last time Zendikar was in standard and it's worth it again.
Don't over look Servant of the Scale or Abzan Falconer!
First of all, for this card to be any good, you need to go heavy on Devoid and straight colorless Eldrazi. That's a start--then you have to be behind or have the board stalled so much that your 8/8s or whatever are getting chumped by stupid little guys. Aren't you already loosing if your titans are getting blocked?
Yes, it is a brutal when it works. But your going to waste an attack step of swinging in with everything to spot kill their guys? Seriously?
Tactics was better because it also enabled Heroic.
It's not that the set sucks. It's just--argh I don't know--not satisfying I guess? The rarities are all outta whack, the power level is super scaled back, and there's a clear divider on what limited cards and decks there are.
Yes, tango lands and man lands--but we knew that and those are always playable in constructed regardless of set.
From The Source!
4 Ghoulcaller's Bell
4 Codex Shredder
2 Field of Dreams
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Mox Opal
1 Lotus Petal
2 Welding Jar
3 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Tree of Tales
1 Vault of Whispers
2 City of Traitors
2 Academy Ruins
1 Sheltered Valley
1 Duress
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Flusterstorm
2 Arcane Laboratory
1 Nature's Claim
2 Golgari Charm
1 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Engineered Plague
1 Darkblast
Don't go around ***** about legacy cards until you actually play the damn format. Lantern works. It took some time, but it works in Modern like gangbusters, and it can fundamentally work in Legacy too.
This user who posted this list, Svyelunite, wrote this report:
Stop comparing the two. They both do completely and utterly separate things for the game. Yes, Zendikar block had some of the most powerful cards ever printed in a standard set for some time--Jace, Stoneforge, Eldrazi, etc.--but the point is that Battle for Zendikar is NOT NOR WILL IT EVER BE Zendikar. They did something fundamentally different for it, and the players are like up in arms about it because it has the word Zendikar in it's name.
Return to Ravnica did the same thing, and people reacted much in the same way. Same thing with Mirrodin.
If anything, this is the most polarizing set I've seen in ages. I watched 4 minutes of the SCG Set review and Bard Narson goes on to say "Yep, Aligned Hedron Network is just simply a bad Magic card." and Todd Anderson slams Sire of Stagnation on Twitter because "It only triggers on your opponent's lands (sighs)". Then, on other sites, Conley Woods exclaims that AHN is the next Perilous Vault. So what is it really? Is it bad or good?
And that I think really sums up my taste with this set--It's really up in the air. Black got lots of cool cards, and some of the devoid eldrazi are pretty nifty, but there is some much...just...uncertainty with these cards that it's really going to come down to who can make a new Standard deck with the new cards the best.
I know the players trying to make Lantern work in Legacy, and Black Vice could be a big player here. Yay.
And the Vintage bannings are lol.
2 Sire of Stagnation
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Dig Through Time
4 Scatter to the Winds
3 Clash of Wills
3 Anticipate
2 Brutal Expulsion
1 Murderous Cut
3 Ruinous Path
2 Crux of Fate
2 Painful Truths
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Dismal Backwater
2 Shivan Reef
2 Smoldering Marsh
1 Swiftwater Cliffs
3 Island
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
I've been really gunning that straight control with Sire of Stagnation as the finisher of choice is probably good enough.
We're loosing Dissolve, but getting Scatter to the Winds...which is counterspell early, and counterspell+threat late game. Radiant Flames is super undervalued, because a 3 mana 3 damage sweeper is probably very good with aggro creatures being x/1s and x/2s.
We also loose Hero's Downfall, but Ruinous Path seems okay for attrition early and attrition plus guy later. An even exchange in my book.
Ugin makes a fine finisher as well, with all of our land creatures from the Awaken spells and our Devoid Eldrazi sticking around to finish them off--which is hysterical because Vorthos. Herald also serves as a nice brick wall, cost reducer, and clock if need be.
I'm not really interested in the Processors. They really need a lot of stuff to work...we really only start exiling cards late and that could be too late in the game for these odd, obtuse abilities that they have. Certainly, a more dedicated processor deck is out there.
Thoughts...admittedly this is rough and will need work.
Does this deck really want Raptor? It wants Den Protector for sure, but is it THAT good to include him?
It's Friday...so that means payday and some nice beers. Got a little flight for y'all tonight
First up, Ommegang Rare Vos. Nice light amber ale with a good amount of citrus notes and a little spice in the back of the mouth--nothing too overbearing, but awesome and sweet. This was great, and certainly a recommendation if you can find it.
Next, Trappistes Rochefort 10. My buddy who works at a liquor store, and has a good read on my beer tastes from college nights with Magic, brews, and some wacky tobaccy, handed this to me and told me that I would love it. I may like heavy beers like Guinness and the like, but I'm a total addict for Belgians/Trappists. But godDAYUM is this one hell of a beer. Got good fruit notes like fig and raisins--yet a good strong finish. Incredible.
Apparently, the Rochefort 10 goes really well with Matcha Pocky. Whodathough?
Finally, Weyerbacher's Blithering Idiot. It's heavy with a nice fruity finish to it. An English style ale, so it's warm and welcoming. Again, an awesome beer and I would certainly drink this outside of pairings and more refined setting. New favorite for sure.
I also feel like Den Protector is probably better at 2 CMC than something like Avatar of the Resolute. It's got way more reach and can really make the deck go long, simply because of it's morph ability. And being able to make it huge with Scales and basically unblockable is a plus.
I'd rather play Falconer as a way to break states and a way to just alpha into the opponent's face than something like Champion at this point. However, let's not rule him out--perhaps he's just a necessary evil at could be played comfortably at maybe 2 copies.
Other idea's I had--Abzan Battle Priest, Salt Road Quartermasters, Surrak...
Draft 2:
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Den Protector
4 Managorger Hydra
3 Abzan Falconer
2 Undergrowth Champion
2 Servant of the Scale
1 Citadel Siege
4 Dromoka's Command
3 Valorous Stance
3 ???
4 Canopy Vista
4 Blossoming Sands
4 Windswept Heath
2 Evolving Wilds
5 Forest
3 Plains
A Naya version would really let him shine due to the access of 2 sets of fetches, so he can abuse the landfall triggers. This makes stuff like Shaman of the Great Hunt viable at 4. The converge elemental doesn't strike me as particularly good. Here's an actual card you really need to work for...you already have to go into multiple colors AND have access to all of them for him to be a sizeable threat. I would rather just play a land and grow my guy.
CoCo seems cool, but our best creature nonbos with it something fierce.
Also, remember that there's going to be lots of 5 mana wraths in the format (Crux of Fate, End Hostilities, the new one with awaken, Tragic Arrogance...) how many of these will be serious threats is still up in the air, so we really should look at Inspiring Call as a main deck thing.
Plus, Den Protector is too hard to pass up. Rebuying commands is one thing, but rebuying Calls against control staves off wraths, draws us more cards than they can, and keeps us from getting overrun from card advantage on their end.
Obviously, if the fringe Hardened Scales decks have taught us anything, it's that Managorger Hydra is the real deal for the deck. So he's in for sure. Hangarback is a no brainer as well. Endless One is an odd choice, but he could be very good, but being just a vanilla creature means that there will probably be better options for him. For example, Hangarback already outclasses him. Undergrowth Champ is super good, and I really don't know why people aren't giving him attention. Plus GW allows for fetchlands for dubs Landfall triggers...it worked last time Zendikar was in standard and it's worth it again.
Don't over look Servant of the Scale or Abzan Falconer!
I'd start here:
4 Servant of the Scale
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Den Protector
4 Managorger Hydra
3 Undergrowth Champion
4 Dromoka's Command
3 Valorous Stance
2 Feat of Resistance
1 Citadel Siege
1 Inspiring Call
4 Canopy Vista
2 Blossoming Sands
2 Evolving Wilds
6 Forest
4 Plains
6 mana Time Walks are okay, and the Awaken bonus seems good. Once again, a great limited card that won't see constructed play---surprise, surprise
First of all, for this card to be any good, you need to go heavy on Devoid and straight colorless Eldrazi. That's a start--then you have to be behind or have the board stalled so much that your 8/8s or whatever are getting chumped by stupid little guys. Aren't you already loosing if your titans are getting blocked?
Yes, it is a brutal when it works. But your going to waste an attack step of swinging in with everything to spot kill their guys? Seriously?
Tactics was better because it also enabled Heroic.
It's not that the set sucks. It's just--argh I don't know--not satisfying I guess? The rarities are all outta whack, the power level is super scaled back, and there's a clear divider on what limited cards and decks there are.
Yes, tango lands and man lands--but we knew that and those are always playable in constructed regardless of set.