the deck i am playing is blue and white (im using gwafa hazid, profiteer as the general). the deck is a group draw deck that aims to flood the early game with cards and have everyone somewhat neutralize each other, and then take over the late game with overwhelming card advantage that I have maintained. I like the idea of guile here the best, as i run a light counter suite (about 9 counters) and am thinking of putting an isochron scepter package in as well. I am not actually trying to mill anyones cards to their grave, as with jace 3.0 or anything, but rather trying to do a one shot forced draw win. I don't want to put either of the colossus in their, as bribery is a legitimate fear, and winning with them myself is a little unlikely anyway. I do run the psychosis crawler. though its not hard for me to mill myself, i do not want to waste a slot on the maniac who does nothing most of the time and is an uninteresting way to win in my opinion.
If running blue white, you can add Purity to guile just incase they somehow exile it before you mill them out.
Won a small tournament this saturday afternoon. People were variating on hate and incredibly I haven't seen a single gy hater artifact for the first time in ages. There were leylines, faeries, purify the grave, surgical, etc. I've beaten White Weenie, LED Dredge, Bant and Hypergenesis by 2-0 and the last match was a variation of Zoo, but in a really aggressive style, which I've beaten by 2-1. We were playing Swiss style but we couldn't have our last match due to some problems with the place the tournament was being held but my position was not threated. Anyway, Thoughtseize has turned the tide really good as well as my 2-of dispels maindeck. My build uses 16 lands btw, which I also think its enough, I've cut the 17th land for the 4th thoughtseize and haven't looked back since.
The funny parts were the two matches I had a leyline t0 in camp and I haven't packed echoing truth to bounce it since one was completely unexpected (Bant, seriously? lol) and I did not care too much for the other one. One I destroyed by forcing and reanimating the opponent's qasali to sac-kill it, and the other one, versus hypergenesis, I had packed in duress only, he cast show and tell and drops emrakul, I drop jin, he discards his hand and passes. I see a nice little angel of despair dropping from his hand to the graveyard and then I reanimated it for emrakul's demise. Funny matches.
As for the deck discussion itself, I see abstolutely NO reason for running less than 4 thoughtseizes. This card is a power house and it gives you precious info, enables you to take down faeries, surgical or whatever you'd like, and also lets you cast it at yourself if you are having problems finding entomb or careful study. Is the 17th land really that much better than this card? I hardly ever brick due to mana, so why would anyone else do it? And as for the my 2 maindeck dispels, well, flusterstorm and spell pierce won't solve your problems in those long games you need working answers to your opponent's threats. Spellpierce is bad anywhere imo, flusterstorm is much better but at long games it loses utility. In my personal experience, we must always be ready to face stp and counters, those are the common choices of players, and dispel is just perfect for that. Having 2 lets you see it here and there in a way your hand won't be flooded.
Congrats on the win bud. Mind sharing your winning list or the name of the event with us? Or are you running a fairly common build to your deck
I am also evaluating bounce spells. Just going back over what's available and making sure we haven't passed up any hidden gems. This is a list of what I believe to be some of the best pinpoint spells, and I encourage you all to check them over and start up conversation on any we feel would be worth one of the 99 slots.
Just gonna run down the list with how i feel about these cards in my experience:
Venser's Diffusion - I could see this being incredibly handy vs jhoira decks, however, the only one in my play group is a jhoira chaos deck, not one that im particularly afraid of unless she pulls of some stupid obliteratetrick. The cmc seems catered to beating jhoira, assuming you have it in your hand early.
Command of Unsummoning - Honestly, this card feels very white to me. I personally would probably prefer into the roil to this one, as it gives more options at different times.
Consign to Dream - Not a fan of this one at all honestly, over priced, and while it steals a draw, not sure its really worth it.
Vapor Snag - This has potential. 1 mana is neigh free in edh. I could see this working well.
Hoodwink - Same feeling i have towards disperse. I dont like 2cc bounce spells in mono blue if they limit what i can do.
Into the Roil - UNLESS they let me draw a card! This card imo is amazing, and is sorely underrated. If you enjoy remand take this one for a spin sometime. Could definitely see potential here.
Regress - Not bad, not great though. I dont see this making main deck.
Repulse - I prefer this to any of the 3cc bounces above. Pretty solid. Still dont know if its worth a slot.
Seal of Removal - A looming unsummon. good CC, pretty solid, but it lays on the board. To me this is a 1 mana card battery. I dont like the seals 99% of the time because i dont like my opponent knowing whats in my hand.
As someone already mentioned Taniwha I will just say play it with worldslayer as that combo is so convoluted and awesome. Everyone laughs when your lands phase out then you give the serpent a giant sword and let it blow the world up. Next turn your lands come back and the tides settle a la the calm after the storm. Also use teferi's isle,Kukemssa Serpent for serious thematic points.
Didnt even think of worldslayer when i posted Taniwha...hahaha, thats so beautiful.
Just gotta survive the hate that everyone will plainly see when you slap the two together, because you cant sneak and swing with it. (lands leave in upkeep, not mainphase, so you cant cast then equip then swing)
Memnarch - The only time when I have found this actually relevant is when I have infinite mana, and by then I have access to a different win condition anyway. Other than when I have infinite mana, I have actually never had the chance to play him or make good use of his ability, a cheap Wizard will probably do better in his place.
Agree completely on cutting her. Shes pricey to drop, and if youve established infinite mana, you shouldnt need her. That said, shes only useful once youve established infinite mana (must be infinite blue, not infinite colorless.
Cryptic Command - The card is good no doubt, but I just didn't find myself leaving 4 mana open. The deck aims to combo off by turn 7-8 in most cases I find and leaving 4 mana open on any of those turns hurts my tempo pretty bad.
I disagree slightly with dropping cryptic. I feel it adds some versatility to our deck that most of our cards dont do on their own. I like to hold cryptic just to prevent alpha strikes, especially against decks that run shroud generals, like Urilor Zur.
Bribery - Very much a meta call, but where I play there are no Eldrazis and rarely any notable fatties.
Agreed that its a meta call. I face a lot of shrouded fatties...i love having it to rip them outta their deck first; not to mention the hopeful promise to grab a prime time.
I agree with you, I think if the deck is to go the UB way, Dark Confidant is an auto-include over any other card advantage "engine". I wonder if the deck can sustain Bob with Cavern of Souls for wizards, and Aether Vial alone as someone mentioned some posts ago.
Currenlty I'm myself in the process of transmogrifying the deck so bellow is a UR list I'm toying with. I really like the flexibility of the bolts and the deck provides better results than the mono-U version against a friend's Maverick, even with the risks that come with the color splash.
Idk if Vial and Caverns alone would be enough. The key to a UB merfolk would be to have effectively 8 black sources, plus vial, thats 12 cards, almost garenteed to hit one to cast Bob. With cavern thats 4 sources, plus vial. thats a pretty big decrease in options, and a dead draw is painful in legacy, especially if they wasteland your cavern. I think UB is a great potential direction to take the deck, but i do not think you can run bob without going all in on UB
guys, im thinking of getting 4 of graveborn deck and just fow and daze, etc.'
the thing is , will i be allowed to join a tourney ? cus i heard a couple of people saying that i will be issued a game loos because not all cards in the deck are foil,. are the foil cards here really curved that it is noticeable?
youll be fine. Make sure you dont have seriously warped cards, keep them in a box. I use kmc perfects and pro mattes, youre fine. That said, in order to play a reanimator in a tourney, youll need blue black lands, dig lands, and a serious bit more carsd than come in the graveborns. Its a steep price to build the deck from scratch, good luck man.
I really think youre onto something here with the piracy subtheme.
I intentionally left out sea serpent, due to his size and mana cost when making my list.
I am a huge fan of merfolk, perhaps some merfolk wizards to help sneak stuff into play? There arent that many fat merfolk to use as big scary craetures, but they can definitely boost your tempo up in the early game.
Sure, it's worse than Consecrated Sphinx, but being worse than Consecrated Sphinx hardly makes a card bad.
while this its true that sphinx is better than most cards, the glaring difference in sphinx to blue bringer is so stark it makes blue bringer almost unplayable, especially with so many great drawing options available to blue, i would sooner run the blue honden, rhystic study, or even mystic remora before i'd consider blue bringer.
Hope these are helpful. This sounds like an interesting pseudo-tribe. Also, I realize Stormtide Leviathan might not have the look you're going for, but it would be a pretty cool win-con for your deck.
adding some just for kicks. Though, kederekt leviathan really deserves a slot:
Not all of these are high tier cards mind you, but i was adding in stuff i felt could meet your theme. Not sure its worth JUST the simic skyswallower, but if he tickles you, i'd run Vorosh, the Hunter as my general.
While i see your agrument (despite my hatred for laboratory maniac), the OP clearly stated:
yyuupp.
that said, its edh, aka, the king of CASUALS. if everyone is onboard with you running a card, its legal.
If running blue white, you can add Purity to guile just incase they somehow exile it before you mill them out.
Also, another strong add might be Serra Avatar.
Best of luck
I came here to say exactly this; plus he serves a double purpose, creating an insanely stupid mana battery for you.
Congrats on the win bud. Mind sharing your winning list or the name of the event with us? Or are you running a fairly common build to your deck
Just gonna run down the list with how i feel about these cards in my experience:
Venser's Diffusion - I could see this being incredibly handy vs jhoira decks, however, the only one in my play group is a jhoira chaos deck, not one that im particularly afraid of unless she pulls of some stupid obliteratetrick. The cmc seems catered to beating jhoira, assuming you have it in your hand early.
Command of Unsummoning - Honestly, this card feels very white to me. I personally would probably prefer into the roil to this one, as it gives more options at different times.
Consign to Dream - Not a fan of this one at all honestly, over priced, and while it steals a draw, not sure its really worth it.
Disperse - Mono blue. worse than boomerang
Vapor Snag - This has potential. 1 mana is neigh free in edh. I could see this working well.
Hoodwink - Same feeling i have towards disperse. I dont like 2cc bounce spells in mono blue if they limit what i can do.
Into the Roil - UNLESS they let me draw a card! This card imo is amazing, and is sorely underrated. If you enjoy remand take this one for a spin sometime. Could definitely see potential here.
Regress - Not bad, not great though. I dont see this making main deck.
Repulse - I prefer this to any of the 3cc bounces above. Pretty solid. Still dont know if its worth a slot.
Seal of Removal - A looming unsummon. good CC, pretty solid, but it lays on the board. To me this is a 1 mana card battery. I dont like the seals 99% of the time because i dont like my opponent knowing whats in my hand.
Didnt even think of worldslayer when i posted Taniwha...hahaha, thats so beautiful.
Just gotta survive the hate that everyone will plainly see when you slap the two together, because you cant sneak and swing with it. (lands leave in upkeep, not mainphase, so you cant cast then equip then swing)
Agree completely on cutting her. Shes pricey to drop, and if youve established infinite mana, you shouldnt need her. That said, shes only useful once youve established infinite mana (must be infinite blue, not infinite colorless.
I disagree slightly with dropping cryptic. I feel it adds some versatility to our deck that most of our cards dont do on their own. I like to hold cryptic just to prevent alpha strikes, especially against decks that run shroud generals, like Urilor Zur.
I can see this argument. What do you propose to replace this with?
Agreed that its a meta call. I face a lot of shrouded fatties...i love having it to rip them outta their deck first; not to mention the hopeful promise to grab a prime time.
Just my 2 cents
Idk if Vial and Caverns alone would be enough. The key to a UB merfolk would be to have effectively 8 black sources, plus vial, thats 12 cards, almost garenteed to hit one to cast Bob. With cavern thats 4 sources, plus vial. thats a pretty big decrease in options, and a dead draw is painful in legacy, especially if they wasteland your cavern. I think UB is a great potential direction to take the deck, but i do not think you can run bob without going all in on UB
youll be fine. Make sure you dont have seriously warped cards, keep them in a box. I use kmc perfects and pro mattes, youre fine. That said, in order to play a reanimator in a tourney, youll need blue black lands, dig lands, and a serious bit more carsd than come in the graveborns. Its a steep price to build the deck from scratch, good luck man.
I really think youre onto something here with the piracy subtheme.
I intentionally left out sea serpent, due to his size and mana cost when making my list.
I am a huge fan of merfolk, perhaps some merfolk wizards to help sneak stuff into play? There arent that many fat merfolk to use as big scary craetures, but they can definitely boost your tempo up in the early game.
while this its true that sphinx is better than most cards, the glaring difference in sphinx to blue bringer is so stark it makes blue bringer almost unplayable, especially with so many great drawing options available to blue, i would sooner run the blue honden, rhystic study, or even mystic remora before i'd consider blue bringer.
adding some just for kicks. Though, kederekt leviathan really deserves a slot:
Not all of these are high tier cards mind you, but i was adding in stuff i felt could meet your theme. Not sure its worth JUST the simic skyswallower, but if he tickles you, i'd run Vorosh, the Hunter as my general.
Best of luck man, love to see the final product